Game has died, Nowhere to go

[ikinai]

Pick a side already!!!

 

 

I'd like the spicy sweet potato fries as my side, thanks. Oooh, or maybe the house salad with blue cheese dressing...hmmm, well, maybe I'll have the cornbread...um, maybe give me a few more minutes to decide which side I'd like, thanks.

[squirrelballz]

I'd like the spicy sweet potato fries as my side, thanks. Oooh, or maybe the house salad with blue cheese dressing...hmmm, well, maybe I'll have the cornbread...um, maybe give me a few more minutes to decide which side I'd like, thanks.

 

LOL I'll have what the queen is having. Also this please.

[ikinai]

LOL I'll have what the queen is having. Also this please.

 

Can never go wrong with starving orphans

[squirrelballz]

I don't even play any longer.

I only keep my sub going now for anything special that is given to players that have an active sub.

I have thousands of CC and quite frankly going F2P ruined this game for me.

 

Dang sorry to hear that. What got you to that point if you don't mind me asking? Also how did F2P ruin the game for you? Did you go F2P or you don't like the F2P model cause I don't understand?

Edited June 16, 2016 by squirrelballz

[Codedrago]

Can never go wrong with starving orphans

I just want my damn orphan tears! The ones I have locked in the basement ran dry...

[Max_Killjoy]

I understand why you did that Max. Everyone has a threshold of what they are willing to tolerate. That said I find that finding a way to get those who disagree with me to either agree with me or help me change my mind a far greater avenue. I feel that it's those you disagree with most that can bring out the best and sometimes worst in you.

 

It's not disagreement that lead to it. I disagree with several people here on a completely civil basis.

 

It's that when someone tries to tell me something that's blatantly and obviously not true ("the game is dead", "the servers are all ghost towns", "only one server is worth being on", "queue pops are the sole indicator of server and game health"), and then when I say "that doesn't match my experience", they immediately and belligerently attempt to insult, demean, belittle, and dismiss me into silence, my experiences into irrelevance, and so on.

 

And that is exactly what happened.

 

Now, what does irk me about a few people defending the offender here is that it's like someone walking into a room, screaming "This party sucks", and then in response to being told that the people there are having fun, he squats down and takes a giant one right in the middle of the floor... and when he's told to get the hell out, there's this one guy who says "Why are you being so mean to him? Oh, well, I didn't hear him scream and I don't smell anything, you guys started it by saying you were still having fun", even if everyone else is playing recordings of the scream and pointing at the giant pile on the carpet.

[squirrelballz]

It's not disagreement that lead to it. I disagree with several people here on a completely civil basis.

 

I agree Max I know that you are a rational and civil person.

 

It's that when someone tries to tell me something that's blatantly and obviously not true ("the game is dead", "the servers are all ghost towns", "only one server is worth being on", "queue pops are the sole indicator of server and game health"), and then when I say "that doesn't match my experience", they immediately and belligerently attempt to insult, demean, belittle, and dismiss me into silence, my experiences into irrelevance, and so on.

 

And that is exactly what happened.

 

I in no way shape or form along with several other people here and I'm pretty sure Tux as well condone the insults and attacks that MCB or MO did. They were blatantly wrong in the actions and words towards other people like yourself. They were the reason I avoided this thread as much as possible honestly. It was wrong for them to say alot of those things to you and others here, your opinion is just as valid.

 

Now, what does irk me about a few people defending the offender here is that it's like someone walking into a room, screaming "This party sucks", and then in response to being told that the people there are having fun, he squats down and takes a giant one right in the middle of the floor... and when he's told to get the hell out, there's this one guy who says "Why are you being so mean to him? Oh, well, I didn't hear him scream and I don't smell anything, you guys started it by saying you were still having fun", even if everyone else is playing recordings of the scream and pointing at the giant pile on the carpet.

 

This is a no win scenario here. I can understand people being upset at MCB and MO. The people who defended MCB or MO defended what they were saying in regards to their concerns to the game. As an example Tux never condoned the language MCB or MO used instead he addressed and said that he shared some of the concerns the OP had. What I want to point out again is the fact that KOTFE has made it feel like MMO players are losing what they love. From that perspective they are not wrong and the MMO parts are dwindling. At the same time KOTFE has provided an uptick in solo players so from your and other's experiences things seem to be fine and I'd say you are absolutely correct on that. As a matter of fact I'd wager this game could survive on the Cartel Market alone for at least 2-3 years.

[TUXs]

I never said you were insulting, I was saying that you were increasingly showing a double standard. I'm okay with you taking what we say towards him as an insult, I would see it as you being a tad bit sensetive, but I would not think less of you for it.

 

But, my problem comes when you're scolding people for what you call 'attacking', yet refuse to call it out when MCB or MO do it. And when others call them out for it, you tell them that it's still no excuse, yet still give him a free pass on it. THere's more I have a problem with, but those are problems I can't prove because those are in threads that have been removed.

I can understand that...let me try to explain...I simply expect more from the "regulars" here...that's all. I missed the merged/deleted threads, so I can't comment on them, but Bioware tends to be fair here on the forums so I assume they were deleted for good reason...I just didn't see them.

 

I'll watch out for any double standards on my part...I hate it when others do it so I try not to have them myself.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

My "bias" was simply based on his original post...which to me, I could summarize as this:

 

Clearly he didn't say exactly that, but that was the gist of his post. To me, it's a legitimate question...one that won't be answered obviously, but one that Bioware should be aware of. KOTFE has hurt this game and harmed the populations...it's troubling to some of us who enjoy this game, which I do.

 

The problem isn't what we originally posted though, it was how his subsequent posts went about with blatant lies, disinformation, insults and abuse ( yes others are guilty of this too but then it's no grounds to defend him on if "everyone" is doing it ).

 

The whole escapade reeks of troll to me which his what I think anyone taking him seriously is falling for.

 

Yes at times he puts forward decent posts but as soon as it goes one step further for example "Well that's an interesting observation do you have any evidence to support it" it devolves into utter nonsense.

 

Like his whole "you can do /who" as grounds for supplying me with evidence to support his argument ... I could indeed do /who but it's entirely flawed for the reasons I outlined and besides that it's on him to show me the results of his /who data, not for me to do it for him. Of course whenever this is pointed out he sort of tends to neglect the logical discussion and focus more on the blatant ad hominem attacks against him rather than any reasoned debate which leads me to believe he wants these attacks ( i.e. as a troll would ) and it leads to more ad hominem as he continues to put forward more outlandish, unsubstantiated and self serving "posts" without ever addressing previous ones in a reasoned manner.

 

Now this of course leaves people like you hung out to dry as I see it. Because you agree with his initial statement perhaps ( as I have done in the past in relation to the health of the game depending on the statement being made - the game being "dead" is certainly not one of them ) but you are then basically left arguing his argument and point for him in a manner that he should have endeavoured to do in the first place.

 

If you really go over the length of this thread and the content he and MCB have put forward it is easy to see how people feel their attacks on him are justified - often they are retaliation or defence. Now that's not necessarily good behaviour etc. but I fail to see how you can in any way defend the guy when he's more guilty of what you defend him of than anyone else where.

 

Heck even just recently with his nonsense about if people mess with him or his friends whatever how he'll come after them full power or whatever nonsense demonstrates this. Either he truly believes this and he's some young, naïve little man ( it's the sort of thing you expect out of young teenagers for example ) or it's posted for no other reason than to get reactions out of people i.e. trolling.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I didn't think he was (see my summary above), and trolling doesn't necessarily mean they deserve to be crucified by others. The best troll ever was SirCopperfield...and I found his posts quite entertaining. Here, I just felt like he was pushed into a defensive stance for, what I think, was a legitimate observation/concern.

 

Trolling 100% means they WANT to be crucified by others because that's the response a troll is after.

 

SC was a more obvious troll, I find MCB to be a more subtle one ... that or he truly believes what he posts in which case there is a rather large amount of immaturity coming across from him.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Look I'm with Tux on this one. I think when you look beyond the insults, rage, and vile comments that have been in this thread there are good points to both sides. While I understand people don't like or agree with MCB or MO(I myself am no fan of them) I don't think they are wrong about their view of the game but it's not an honest assessment either. I think what people forget to see is that truth often lies in the middle. What I mean by this is exactly what those who have been concerned about MMO aspects of this game have been stating now for months that the population for group content is dwindling at an alarming rate. At the same time though I feel solo players has steadily increased.

 

I tried a couple of times to actually have reasoned discussion with him over his "points" but every time he either copped out to instead resort to ad hominem wars with others ( what I believe he desires ) or just went off on some tangent. After this I stopped trying to respond logically to him very often as I truly feel he wants people to waste their time responding to him in depth ... he gets a joy in winding people up.

 

That's my opinion based on seeing his behaviour anyway.

 

 

So when TUX is defending this I don't understand why you guys are on Tux's case. Don't look at who Tux is defending look at what he is defending about them. Tux has already said he doesn't agree with the insults or poor language that was used:

 

Because TUXs is demonstrating bias ... I haven't once yet seen him apply the same sort of "cut it out" posts towards MCB/MO yet he's worse than anyone here when it comes to that sort of behaviour.

 

When you post in a manner TUXs has that demonstrates such bias then people are likely to be ... "O'RLY? *** thread have you been reading?"

 

 

That's a fair point by Tux because where do players go for group content once the harbinger dwindles in population? For myself I know that in my experience it's been much harder to complete group content since 4.0. This can be anything from PVP, OPS, FP's, to even heroics sometimes. When the harbinger declines further there is no other server for people who like group content can go to. I don't see this as being negative or bashing the game I think this is a legitimate concern. I feel BW hasn't done much for the MMO players since 4.0 was released.

 

Problem is this ... that wasn't how the poster proceeded to post. If it was and kept civil and as it progressed supported with relevant evidence ( as much as possible ) then I doubt half of the "insults" he received would have occurred.

 

I'm happy to have a debate about what you've just put forward just not with the OP anymore because everytime you try he does what I mentioned above.

 

FWIW I don't disagree with what you put forward above and in the rest of your post at all and it may be if you want group content and no more group content is coming then you go elsewhere because maybe they are happy with whatever size customer base is left when focusing on solo story content. Unfortunately as with the CM debate I offer the same advice ... vote with your wallet if you aren't happy.

.

[TUXs]

Because TUXs is demonstrating bias ... I haven't once yet seen him apply the same sort of "cut it out" posts towards MCB/MO yet he's worse than anyone here when it comes to that sort of behaviour.

 

When you post in a manner TUXs has that demonstrates such bias then people are likely to be ... "O'RLY? *** thread have you been reading?"

Well he's not posting any more so it's largely irrelevant, but when he did to say "bye", people jumped all over that too - it seems he can't win. Again, I seemingly missed a ton over a weekend I guess, but that doesn't excuse personal attacks.

 

If I have a perceived bias, it's because I like players staying HERE and I do stand up for them when I feel people are driving them away and I do expect more from the "regulars" here than from anyone else...but your opinion is noted and I will watch myself in the future.

 

We ALL get frustrated. We ALL get upset over stupid ****. We're human...emotion is normal and I absolutely excuse players for "frustrated" posts. I think frustration is one of the keys to getting players to even post here...they just finally have had enough of issue "X" and they come here and spout off about it...I don't see that as unnatural reaction in any way. No matter how someone phrases something, I don't think it's acceptable to lambast them (with several exceptions of course). The issue and the player are what matter 99% of the time, not how they phrased it, not the tone, not that they use "we" instead of "I'", not any of the nit-picky insignificant stuff that people pick up on...it's the ISSUE and PLAYER that matter.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well he's not posting any more so it's largely irrelevant, but when he did to say "bye", people jumped all over that too - it seems he can't win.

 

Because under both his accounts, he's said "bye" over and over, and then posted again within a few days, over and over. It's become a running joke. How can you not have noticed this? At this point there are people running a pool on how long it takes him to post again after each time he says "bye".

[TUXs]

Because under both his accounts, he's said "bye" over and over, and then posted again within a few days, over and over. It's become a running joke. How can you not have noticed this? At this point there are people running a pool on how long it takes him to post again after each time he says "bye".

So that's a reason to launch into personal attacks? I've sworn to stop drinking too much a few hundred times...yet I'm stupid enough to do it again and again.

[Max_Killjoy]

So that's a reason to launch into personal attacks? I've sworn to stop drinking too much a few hundred times...yet I'm stupid enough to do it again and again.

 

If someone says "I'm going to do X" over and over, and never does X, then people are eventually going to start commenting when that person says "I'm going to do X!" yet again.

 

You appear to be claiming that someone who barges into a room, shoves people out of the way, stinks the place up, yells over the top of everyone else, and generally treats the people there with smirking aggression, should never be responded to with anything but smiling politeness, for as long as he's there. Eventually, he's going to get a good talking to, and probably going to be bodily thrown out. If he says "I'm leaving!", then everyone else is going to say, or at least think, "GOOD!" If he says "I'm leaving!" every time he doesn't get his way or someone doesn't join in his screaming "expression" of this opinions, and yet never actually leaves, people are going to start saying "if only you weren't full of it". The difference here is that he gets to hide between the veils of the internet, and the only people with the ability to throw him out have so far failed in their responsibility to do so.

 

If he wants to be treated with respect and civility, he needs to stop treating everyone else here with disrespect, disdain, belligerence, and incivility.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[squirrelballz]

I tried a couple of times to actually have reasoned discussion with him over his "points" but every time he either copped out to instead resort to ad hominem wars with others ( what I believe he desires ) or just went off on some tangent. After this I stopped trying to respond logically to him very often as I truly feel he wants people to waste their time responding to him in depth ... he gets a joy in winding people up.

 

That's my opinion based on seeing his behaviour anyway.

 

I do agree with you that your arguments were very valid and it was very immature for MCB/MO to spout the same rhetoric without any evidence. They were the ones imo that brought alot of the toxicity to this thread. You'll get no disagreement with me there, I dislike their language and demeanor myself and felt only few of their posts actually addressed what is a legitimate problem in my opinion.

 

Because TUXs is demonstrating bias ... I haven't once yet seen him apply the same sort of "cut it out" posts towards MCB/MO yet he's worse than anyone here when it comes to that sort of behaviour.

 

When you post in a manner TUXs has that demonstrates such bias then people are likely to be ... "O'RLY? *** thread have you been reading?"

 

I think Tux is capable of explaining this better than I could but I understand where Tux is coming from:

If I have a perceived bias, it's because I like players staying HERE and I do stand up for them when I feel people are driving them away and I do expect more from the "regulars" here than from anyone else...but your opinion is noted and I will watch myself in the future.

 

To an extent I also do have this bias when it comes to the larger community. The game is more enjoyable with more of us in it. Less players usually means less content which means less fun for everyone. From this perspective or bias I don't think Tux is wrong but that is only my opinion. I agree though that even if I was defending MCB or MO's post if they started insulting or saying vile stuff I'd ask them to cut it out. I'm pretty sure Tux even said he'll watch out for this in the future. Kind of hard for me to not like a person like that, Tux listens and I'm pretty sure values everyone here at least from what I've seen.

 

Problem is this ... that wasn't how the poster proceeded to post. If it was and kept civil and as it progressed supported with relevant evidence ( as much as possible ) then I doubt half of the "insults" he received would have occurred.

 

I'm happy to have a debate about what you've just put forward just not with the OP anymore because everytime you try he does what I mentioned above.

 

FWIW I don't disagree with what you put forward above and in the rest of your post at all and it may be if you want group content and no more group content is coming then you go elsewhere because maybe they are happy with whatever size customer base is left when focusing on solo story content. Unfortunately as with the CM debate I offer the same advice ... vote with your wallet if you aren't happy.

 

Definitely would not mind debating about this but I'd need time to collect current data as most of the group content pop timing I have are for 3.0 and early 4.0. If you want me to post those numbers that I had I can do that. On top of that I'd be willing to posts the times I play what content and etc. If you want screenshots my comp is crappy but I can make that happen as well. When I say group content players are dwindling at an alarming rate I don't mean it in a sky falling kind of scenario but rather that when most these players leave BW won't care to make content for players like me or anyone else who likes group content. Especially with the way they read their metrics. It's why I refuse to run KOTFE multiple times it's the only way I can vote with my play time. Also is it just me or has there been less recruiting lately I'm on DK, Korriban, Odesson, Zakuul, and Fleet I rarely see as much as guild recruit messages as before. The main guilds that top conquest are still there but even now I don't see them putting in recruit messages as much. Interestingly though I see more players asking in general chat for a guild to invite them.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Well he's not posting any more so it's largely irrelevant, but when he did to say "bye", people jumped all over that too - it seems he can't win. Again, I seemingly missed a ton over a weekend I guess, but that doesn't excuse personal attacks.

 

Read the content of the posts and you might find people have valid points in their "jumping all over him" - he's said those numerous times and when he did it most recently I pointed him out for the bare faced liar he is simply by quoting his previous post.

 

He of "corrected" his statement with a new "paste" of his subscription time ... I personally believe he just came back to wind up the community again and yup ... mission accomplished.

 

If I have a perceived bias, it's because I like players staying HERE and I do stand up for them when I feel people are driving them away and I do expect more from the "regulars" here than from anyone else...but your opinion is noted and I will watch myself in the future.

 

I would prefer poisonous players like him did leave personally ... that's just me though *shrug*.

 

 

We ALL get frustrated. We ALL get upset over stupid ****. We're human...emotion is normal and I absolutely excuse players for "frustrated" posts. I think frustration is one of the keys to getting players to even post here...they just finally have had enough of issue "X" and they come here and spout off about it...I don't see that as unnatural reaction in any way. No matter how someone phrases something, I don't think it's acceptable to lambast them (with several exceptions of course). The issue and the player are what matter 99% of the time, not how they phrased it, not the tone, not that they use "we" instead of "I'", not any of the nit-picky insignificant stuff that people pick up on...it's the ISSUE and PLAYER that matter.

 

OK but by your own admission you haven't even read the majority of his posts so why are you persevering on this course when you are so damn uneducated on his post history?

 

YOU are basically "lambasting" other people for their behaviour when you have no inclining if it's warranted or not.

 

Read up over the whole post history and then make a more informed judgement of ifhow people "attack" him is justified or not.

 

I personally don't even see them as that over the top attacks personally, just the almost everyone is agreement over disagreeing with him which is very rare for these forums ... that is to say it's very rare everyone agrees but he's not only managed to get the "the game is fine" crowd to disagree with him but also "the game is in trouble" crowd such as myself and that in itself is quite an accomplishment.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Definitely would not mind debating about this but I'd need time to collect current data as most of the group content pop timing I have are for 3.0 and early 4.0. If you want me to post those numbers that I had I can do that. On top of that I'd be willing to posts the times I play what content and etc. If you want screenshots my comp is crappy but I can make that happen as well. When I say group content players are dwindling at an alarming rate I don't mean it in a sky falling kind of scenario but rather that when most these players leave BW won't care to make content for players like me or anyone else who likes group content. Especially with the way they read their metrics. It's why I refuse to run KOTFE multiple times it's the only way I can vote with my play time. Also is it just me or has there been less recruiting lately I'm on DK, Korriban, Odesson, Zakuul, and Fleet I rarely see as much as guild recruit messages as before. The main guilds that top conquest are still there but even now I don't see them putting in recruit messages as much. Interestingly though I see more players asking in general chat for a guild to invite them.

 

Well it wouldn't be a debate against me personally since I agreed with your perceptions.

 

I think the MMO ( i.e. those that want to do group activities ) players or activities within this game is on a huge decline. This past month has been amongst the worse I've seen in this game in terms of LFG/pops etc. ( yes it's anecdotal evidence but before someone says "thats not proof" how about they provide some counter proof themselves to show things aren't dwindling? ).

It seems about as bad as it was May last year but things picked back up after KoTFE was announced which is why I'm sort of in a holding pattern before I make a decision over the future of the game in terms of my opinion.

 

I have offered up "if they do this then I believe this will be the result" but those are still what if scenarios. All we really say right now is yes the MMO aspects of this game are on a major decline ( I would be surprised if anyone tried to argue that ) but what the future holds really relies on the next major BW announcement which I feel has to come once 16 drops.

[Warrgames]

I'd like the spicy sweet potato fries as my side, thanks. Oooh, or maybe the house salad with blue cheese dressing...hmmm, well, maybe I'll have the cornbread...um, maybe give me a few more minutes to decide which side I'd like, thanks.

 

Sorry we just ran out of spicy sweet potato fries, house salad with blue cheese dressing and cornbread. Tux ate them all.

[Lil_Fusion]

You weren't forced to leave POT5, Musco said in his PvP interview with Snave that players like you killed PvP servers by transferring off. /sarcasm I love how Bioware doesn't take the blame.

 

This games really bottom feeding now, just survives off idiots buying hypercrates for Kylo Ren want to be outfits. PvP was neglected for 2-3 years. PvE now sits here at 1.5 years. It's pathetic, all for this boring af linear hallway storyline with scripted skytooper events and HK-55 subscriber rewards that are below worth even being subbed for tbh.

 

I'm usually not even this negative, but I hate how they pass the blame onto the players.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Lil_Fusion

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You weren't forced to leave POT5, Musco said in his PvP interview with Snave that players like you killed PvP servers by transferring off. /sarcasm I love how Bioware doesn't take the blame.

 

This games really bottom feeding now, just survives off idiots buying hypercrates for Kylo Ren want to be outfits. PvP was neglected for 2-3 years. PvE now sits here at 1.5 years. It's pathetic, all for this boring af linear hallway storyline with scripted skytooper events and HK-55 subscriber rewards that are below worth even being subbed for tbh.

 

I'm usually not even this negative, but I hate how they pass the blame onto the players.

 

I would love a thread summary of this interview for laughs as I really can't be assed listening through it personally.

[Savej]

I would love a thread summary of this interview for laughs as I really can't be assed listening through it personally.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/4obs2g/snave_interviews_musco/

[lightSaberAddiCt]

We ALL get frustrated. We ALL get upset over stupid ****. We're human...emotion is normal and I absolutely excuse players for "frustrated" posts. I think frustration is one of the keys to getting players to even post here...they just finally have had enough of issue "X" and they come here and spout off about it...I don't see that as unnatural reaction in any way. No matter how someone phrases something, I don't think it's acceptable to lambast them (with several exceptions of course). The issue and the player are what matter 99% of the time, not how they phrased it, not the tone, not that they use "we" instead of "I'", not any of the nit-picky insignificant stuff that people pick up on...it's the ISSUE and PLAYER that matter.

 

See, now I really have a problem with this statement. Because I see it all to often today in general. That is why we have such divisive, vulgar politics, and certain ****** politicians.

 

WORDS DO MATTER!

 

How you make a statement, is just as important, actually more important then the message trying to be explained. Words matter. Whether your a politician, if you spew hate, and lies and misinformation, that can have an effect on the mass public. And it can have devastating results....WORDS MATTER.

 

So I am sorry Tux, but honestly I almost find that comment above insulting. I am so tired of people trying to say that it isn't the words people use, it is the message. And its ok if they use the wrong words, because yadda yadda yadda yadda.

 

People need to take responsibility for the irresponsible words that they use. And the way that they use them.

 

*/rant over

[Andryah]

See, now I really have a problem with this statement. Because I see it all to often today in general. That is why we have such divisive, vulgar politics, and certain ****** politicians.

 

WORDS DO MATTER!

 

How you make a statement, is just as important, actually more important then the message trying to be explained. Words matter. Whether your a politician, if you spew hate, and lies and misinformation, that can have an effect on the mass public. And it can have devastating results....WORDS MATTER.

 

So I am sorry Tux, but honestly I almost find that comment above insulting. I am so tired of people trying to say that it isn't the words people use, it is the message. And its ok if they use the wrong words, because yadda yadda yadda yadda.

 

People need to take responsibility for the irresponsible words that they use. And the way that they use them.

 

*/rant over

 

/Agree.

 

People like to pretend words do not matter, but in reality they do. Especially on a words only medium of communications such as a gaming forum.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Max_Killjoy]

See, now I really have a problem with this statement. Because I see it all to often today in general. That is why we have such divisive, vulgar politics, and certain ****** politicians.

 

WORDS DO MATTER!

 

How you make a statement, is just as important, actually more important then the message trying to be explained. Words matter. Whether your a politician, if you spew hate, and lies and misinformation, that can have an effect on the mass public. And it can have devastating results....WORDS MATTER.

 

So I am sorry Tux, but honestly I almost find that comment above insulting. I am so tired of people trying to say that it isn't the words people use, it is the message. And its ok if they use the wrong words, because yadda yadda yadda yadda.

 

People need to take responsibility for the irresponsible words that they use. And the way that they use them.

 

*/rant over

 

/Agree.

 

People like to pretend words do not matter, but in reality they do. Especially on a words only medium of communications such as a gaming forum.

 

 

And in the case of MCB/MO, his delivery was toxic AND his message was a combination of unsupported claims, unprovable claims, and just plain factually wrong claims.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Max_Killjoy