Game has died, Nowhere to go

[JennyFlynn]

Learn to tell the difference between not getting what you want from the game... and the game being "dead".

 

This tends to be a common misconception yes. I think most people here have a certain preference, a view of how they think the game ought to be but the fact those aren't always met, doesn't imply the game as a whole is dead. It may be in your personal opinion, in the sense of what matters to you and makes you want to play but that's all. Your personal dissatisfaction doesn't dictate the state of the game.

 

Decline in numbers seems rather common in MMO's these days. They'll spike and for a while things are great, there's plenty for everyone but then the inevitable decline sets in and slowly the amount of players drops, queue times (whether PvP or PvE inclined) rise. And each game has their core of dedicated fans, people who'll continue playing until BW pulls the plug but a vast majority is also the 'visiting' kind. They pop in for a few months and play the heck out of a game until something new, something shinier pulls their attention away and then they're gone again. Some pop back in from time to time, others will never think twice about the game again. This does happen in most MMOs and games, it's the nature of the beast these days I guess.

 

And no matter which way you twist it (and mind you I'm not judging the preference for PvP) but PvP is but one of many aspects to this game. The decline in PvPers and the increased queue times only truly tell you that PvP is no longer enticing and challenging enough for the percentage of PvP orientated players which is still just one portion of the entire player base. Hopefully for you Mad, the upcoming PvP grounds they're releasing will rekindle the urge to PvP and things will peak again.

[TUXs]

Learn to tell the difference between not getting what you want from the game... and the game being "dead".

Is it irrational to expect GROUP content from an MMO? I don't play GTA and expect group content. When they number of players drops to where getting a group is becoming an issue, what would you call that?

[Max_Killjoy]

Is it irrational to expect GROUP content from an MMO? I don't play GTA and expect group content. When they number of players drops to where getting a group is becoming an issue, what would you call that?

 

I wonder if that's why getting a group is getting harder -- or if the changing content focus and the increased number of places for characters to be where they can't talk to each other, combined with the way that the toxic minority corrodes willingness to risk participation.

 

Certainly, Bioware has done group-focused players no favors, with long gaps in new content, and the way that heroics are less repeatable and more soloable both, and other factors. I also think that there's STILL a distinct lack of a "transitional" group content to allow players to learn -- which is entirely separate from trying to carrot/stick them into doing the content, a practice that is IMO counter-productive.

 

But then, there's that toxic minority again. My chances of being grouped with at least one toxic player in any Operation is somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2/ My chances of being grouped any toxic players when playing solo is 0 out of whatever.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[TUXs]

I wonder if that's why getting a group is getting harder -- or if the changing content focus and the increased number of places for characters to be where they can't talk to each other, combined with the way that the toxic minority corrodes willingness to risk participation.

 

Certainly, Bioware has done group-focused players no favors, with long gaps in new content, and the way that heroics are less repeatable and more soloable both, and other factors. I also think that there's STILL a distinct lack of a "transitional" group content to allow players to learn -- which is entirely separate from trying to carrot/stick them into doing the content, which is IMO counter-productive.

Exceptional points Max!!!

[peter_plankskull]

I think all we need is a HK-47 skin and then we can just dress up and Revan and run around with the HK-47 skin and pretend its all KOTOR 3. Hmm... never thought of that till now.... forgot SWTOR 1-SOR and pretend KOTFE is KOTOR 3.

[GrammaJedi]

I for one am not impressed with the new content. I have 8 lvl 60 char but will only play 1 through the new content. It is so boring. Getting to Oddessa and then having to do the same thing over and over again to get rep is just no longer fun. There is just the story line, no new planets, no new quests. If we could do the dailies as a lvl 60-65 player instead of being dropped down would have made the dailies a little more fun, but killing the same npc's day in and day out is not my cup of tea. And then having to defeat the same space station over - what 7 planets was such a waste. Most of the players in the Guild only come on now when the new chapters come out. Once done with the new stuff, they are no longer on.

 

Who ever thought up this content should be fired and those that did the Hutt Cartell, Makeb, etc should have done the expansion. At least they were interesting.

 

I have been a subscriber since beta testing, but will probably not renew when it expires in June.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

We need better terminology then -- it's just going to lead to acrimony when a term like that is being used in so many ways, and the word "casual" has for some at times been a "dirty word" as used by the "dedicated raiding" crowd.

 

Maybe, but ian was right what I was meaning by casual, it wasnt meant to be an insult or anything. My definitionof a casual player is one that just plays his game for story, not dedicated to either pvp or OPs. Who doesnt want to have to worry about having the BIS gear, but just want to put in his free time to go through his story, not really interested in social aspects etc etc...

 

Its funny, more often then not, I see people on here using the ter s OPs players negatively, but get in a huff if they think someone may or may not mean some negative slight or insult. Whether tbe casual, story crowd likes to admit it or not, OPs and pvp players are a playerbase as well. I dont think any MMO is going to be successful if they target on one crowd. If this game lost a good proportion of both OPs and PVP players, it would be in trouble.

 

but like I said everything from gaming to politics today seems to want to go down the road as us versus them, rather then trying to work together for a fully fleshed out game.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

We need better terminology then -- it's just going to lead to acrimony when a term like that is being used in so many ways, and the word "casual" has for some at times been a "dirty word" as used by the "dedicated raiding" crowd.

 

You do realize the same thing is done by the casual, non raiding crowd right? I have seen some pretty vitrioli, insulting terms by people who are story focused towards people that enjoy OPs

[Max_Killjoy]

You do realize the same thing is done by the casual, non raiding crowd right? I have seen some pretty vitrioli, insulting terms by people who are story focused towards people that enjoy OPs

 

Not accurate or fair in that direction either... which is why I tend to use the term "leets" or something like ti instead when talking about the "do you even Ops, bro?" sort of players.

[peter_plankskull]

Not accurate or fair in that direction either... which is why I tend to use the term "leets" or something like ti instead when talking about the "do you even Ops, bro?" sort of players.

 

Ill have to side with Max here... "Casuals" terminology is a lot broader and isn't as well distinguished from person to person as MLG Leets.

[TX_Angel]

Come on TX... I use to see you all the time when I stalked you... err ... I... I... I mean the forums.....we have wonderful chance cubes, beta testing, and information about EC which has been delayed for 2 months now!!!

 

I hope the new chapter lights that spark for you to return to the game and enjoy your GTN surfing, perhaps some PVP as well, maybe even operations.... TOS HM achievement required however. If the new chapter doesn't do it, I wish you the best of luck in finding another game you like, and getting that spark to return to SWTOR.

 

Sorry for the late reply... Thursday night now, first time checking the forums since Tuesday. Still haven't logged into the game.

 

Nothing lasts forever, and that's fine, it isn't a crime... it is just... Too much time has passed without new MMO stuff to do. No new WZ maps, no new GSF anything, no new FP/OPS, etc. KotFE isn't worth doing more than two or three times.

 

I went achievement hunting for awhile, ended up over 41,000, which I know isn't the top, some people have far more, but frankly that is still a lot! The guild is nearly dead, fewer than 10 people on, no one is running ops anymore, they are beyond stale.

 

I miss 2013.

 

As a side note, I've been playing World of Warships this week, it is fun, but without a story, I can see how that would get old in a hurry, but nice for a free game.

 

I still have ESO to play, I bought a copy on the cheap awhile ago and now that it is buy-to-play, I can pick that up. FF 14 was nice, but without full voiceovers, it was just painful.

 

All good things...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Well actually this time last year was at least double of what it is now. I wrote down the planet instances, pvp instances, and ops instances. I have a pad next to me that I have been scribbling on with stuff like that for years.

 

O'RLY? Were these similar numbers to the ones you tried to push forward about how much more active PVP was than PVE instances but were completely screwy? Excuse me if I'm not interested in your incredibly flawed metrics.

 

 

Fleet is still a viable way of measuring as a general rule of thumb. When we had 4 instances of republic fleet, we also has approx. same expansion on instances. Now that we are down to 1 instance of republic fleet on harbs, you can see the approx same results on all other instaces besides fleet. They generaly run hand and hand at least in the past year they have.

 

4 instances at this time last year? I must have been playing some other game as I don't recall that personally. Again timezones may vary, I mean I'm sure you're not completely making numbers up or anything right?

 

 

To debate over the servers being less populated is not worth the time to debate.

 

Sure it is, that's what we're doing right now unless you are doing things in your own posts that aren't worth your time in which case I would question why you're doing it.

I think any reasonably thinking person knows that the servers are lighter.

 

Than when?

Are they dead? No Harbringer is not dead, and there are a few other servers worth playing on during peak times. But as a whole the servers have deflated.

 

I only play harb thus can only comment on harb - I don't feel it's deflated over last year though it of course has over the past 3 months.

 

The problem isn't the fact that we have a server that still runs a decent population, the problem is that we are down to only a few server worth playing that are deflating weekly. And now for the first time in this games history there is no where to run to for refuge. That is the core of the issue.

 

That's not my problem though, as long as I havep eople to play with on Harb I'm happy. Others can choose to transfer if they wish. The fact those servers stay open and empty doesn't actually affect me in the slightest.

 

These servers are going down, not up. If these servers patters we on an upscale I would not be having this discussion. Heck I wouldn't even be on the forums at all TBH. I am sounding the alarm that the house is on fire. I just hope the alarm is heard.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that the population is currently decreasing, that much seems obvious. The point is what BW has up it's sleeve to stem the flow leaving. It really doesn't take much at all - another expansion announcement for the end of the year that includes operations, flashpoints would tend to kill these debates as the game would have a foreseeable future - currently on what we know is coming it doesn't.

 

In saying that announcing an expansion in March for the end of the year would be rather out of the ordinary for Bioware but I feel they need to do something because this episodic experiment has failed ( imo ).

[MadCuzBad]

I only play harb thus can only comment on harb - I don't feel it's deflated over last year though it of course has over the past 3 months.

 

The only reason why Harbringer is busy and HAS been busy is because the majority of transfers have gone there. But why would you care? Doesn't effect you. Your golden.

 

Well I got news for you buddy boy. The storm is coming. And what I have been thru on 3 server mergers and a 4th transfer from a dead server is coming here. The only problem your gonna have is that there is nowhere to go this time buddy boy. The end of the rope has arrived.

 

You sound like a lot of americans today in the US. I hear it all the time. Got a job, bills are paid, nice car, nice house, and you sit there and say "I have no idea what these protestors are all yelling about. Everything is fine. Things are great. Couldn't be better." Meanwhile while your at work living a dream the US congress and senate are passing bills to destroy all of your rights and freedoms, are spending blowing more money then we could ever possibly pay back, offshore bankers are funding our elections, the entire country is being flushed down the drain and you sit there and say "I have no freaking clue what all these people are screaming about. I wish they would shut up. Everything is going fine. Things couldn't be better for me"

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's about it in a nutshell ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Sorry to have to put you in your place but I think it was badly needed.

 

Have a great night!

[MeNaCe-NZ]

But why would you care? Doesn't effect you. Your golden.

 

Exactly.

 

Well I got news for you buddy boy. The storm is coming. And what I have been thru on 3 server mergers and a 4th transfer from a dead server is coming here. The only problem your gonna have is that there is nowhere to go this time buddy boy. The end of the rope has arrived.

 

I've done a server merge, no biggie. In fact it was rather positive. As to this end of the rope ... meh who cares if the game dies the game dies then I won't be posting on the forums or doing GTN stuffs, no loss.

 

Speaking of GTN I note my sales aren't down which I find a great indicator of server health so seems there are still a lot of people buying up millions and millions worth of CM items from the GTN, this wouldn't be the case if it were already as dead as you proclaim.

 

You sound like a lot of americans today in the US. I hear it all the time. Got a job, bills are paid, nice car, nice house, and you sit there and say "I have no idea what these protestors are all yelling about. Everything is fine. Things are great. Couldn't be better."

Meanwhile while your at work living a dream the US congress and senate are passing bills to destroy all of your rights and freedoms, are spending blowing more money then we could ever possibly pay back, offshore bankers are funding our elections, the entire country is being flushed down the drain and you sit there and say "I have no freaking clue what all these people are screaming about. I wish they would shut up. Everything is going fine. Things couldn't be better for me"

^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's about it in a nutshell ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry to have to put you in your place but I think it was badly needed.

Have a great night!

 

Don't live in the US, don't care.

[bseefeldt]

Exactly.

 

Speaking of GTN I note my sales aren't down which I find a great indicator of server health so seems there are still a lot of people buying up millions and millions worth of CM items from the GTN, this wouldn't be the case if it were already as dead as you proclaim.

 

Going to have to call Bull **** on this, Sales on GTN are way slower and prices are higher then they were 2 months ago. I was, and still am a GTN buyer and seller and you can tell its changed drastically.

 

Also it sounds like you dont give a **** one way or the other so you are just Trolling and have lost any credibility as far as I can tell.

[Ick-Na-Kamara]

I'm always a late bloomer on MMO's; I joined WoW in 2009, LOTRO in 2011 (which eventually led me back to WoW - nostalgia can be a powerful thing) and now this in 2016. So I'm conscious that my opinion may be a little tainted as I've always been late to class.

 

The thing is, a lot of MMO's settle in at around 1 million players. Currently, the activity on TOR is no different from other MMO's, with the obvious exception of WoW (which has also had its problems in recent years and had to scale back).

 

The fact is that TOR players are quite lucky in that Bioware seem a lot more likely to actually listen to them than Blizzard will be, who apparently just use a Magic 8 ball to come up with their new content.

 

The release of SWTOR was devastating to LOTRO and this exact topic with these exact points being raised (obviously except the minutae differences) and lo and behold, LOTRO still going with around the same player base as TOR and without the numerous problems that TOR has had.

 

I'd welcome a contrary opinion of course for the record I tend to be a completionist so I'll play to level cap then focus on raids and trades/guilds, there's plenty of content left for me to get through and I'm optimistic about the risks Bioware are taking .

 

Go easy guys

[DieAlteHexe]

imo - new players are gaining over the vets returning.

 

Based on what I'm seeing in various chat areas, a fair good amount of newcomers. Also have seen a lot of "where are my companion's stuff" comments.

[Ick-Na-Kamara]

Based on what I'm seeing in various chat areas, a fair good amount of newcomers. Also have seen a lot of "where are my companion's stuff" comments.

 

I restarted on The Red Eclipse yesterday 8am and Korriban was rammed.

[Max_Killjoy]

The only reason why Harbringer is busy and HAS been busy is because the majority of transfers have gone there. But why would you care? Doesn't effect you. Your golden.

 

Well I got news for you buddy boy. The storm is coming. And what I have been thru on 3 server mergers and a 4th transfer from a dead server is coming here. The only problem your gonna have is that there is nowhere to go this time buddy boy. The end of the rope has arrived.

 

You sound like a lot of americans today in the US. I hear it all the time. Got a job, bills are paid, nice car, nice house, and you sit there and say "I have no idea what these protestors are all yelling about. Everything is fine. Things are great. Couldn't be better." Meanwhile while your at work living a dream the US congress and senate are passing bills to destroy all of your rights and freedoms, are spending blowing more money then we could ever possibly pay back, offshore bankers are funding our elections, the entire country is being flushed down the drain and you sit there and say "I have no freaking clue what all these people are screaming about. I wish they would shut up. Everything is going fine. Things couldn't be better for me"

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's about it in a nutshell ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Sorry to have to put you in your place but I think it was badly needed.

 

Have a great night!

 

"Put him in his place"

 

What's next, are you going to tell us about the Grays and the Reptoids?

[MadCuzBad]

"Put him in his place"

 

What's next, are you going to tell us about the Grays and the Reptoids?

 

I have no clue what your talking about now. You lost me. Is that Jurassic Park? Because if it is, I didn't watch that.

[robertthebard]

Is it irrational to expect GROUP content from an MMO? I don't play GTA and expect group content. When they number of players drops to where getting a group is becoming an issue, what would you call that?

 

Circumstantial evidence, at best. Two years ago, my guild leader and I did something I almost never do, and hit the queue for some HM FPs. We both hit the queue as DPS. 45 minutes later, we swapped toons, and hit the same queue as a tank and healer and the queue almost insta-popped. This was 2 years ago. I have never, when we had tanks and heals for Ops, had to wait overlong for our guild runs to pug in a couple of DPS if that's what we needed. But waiting for a tank could take forever, and the same could be said for heals. This isn't a recent development, but a long term "issue" which has had people calling for the x server queue for years. For some reason, they sincerely believe that a shortage of tanks or heals on one server means there's a shortage of DPS on another one. This isn't the case, of course, but they do tend to believe it must be, since they believe x server will do anything for queue times overall.

[IanArgent]

Circumstantial evidence, at best. Two years ago, my guild leader and I did something I almost never do, and hit the queue for some HM FPs. We both hit the queue as DPS. 45 minutes later, we swapped toons, and hit the same queue as a tank and healer and the queue almost insta-popped. This was 2 years ago. I have never, when we had tanks and heals for Ops, had to wait overlong for our guild runs to pug in a couple of DPS if that's what we needed. But waiting for a tank could take forever, and the same could be said for heals. This isn't a recent development, but a long term "issue" which has had people calling for the x server queue for years. For some reason, they sincerely believe that a shortage of tanks or heals on one server means there's a shortage of DPS on another one. This isn't the case, of course, but they do tend to believe it must be, since they believe x server will do anything for queue times overall.

 

This is a problem with the tactical trinity and story-mode adventuring. For story mode, DPS is simply the most efficient way to get through almost all the levelling content (and has been as long as I've been playing, over 2 years). And because you can't change Advanced Class; your choices after that choice are constrained to DPS and not-DPS (if you're not one of the two ACs that are DPS or DPS). So not only are the majority of ACs DPS, but the game pushes you to be DPS.

[Joesixxpack]

"Put him in his place"

 

What's next, are you going to tell us about the Grays and the Reptoids?

 

/Pol/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[DarkJediMage]

after i did sor, i stopped queuing, i did the content over and over again. there was no reason to queue any more. in fact, i got so frustrated and bored, i didn't want to help anyone to queue up.

[Max_Killjoy]

This is a problem with the tactical trinity and story-mode adventuring. For story mode, DPS is simply the most efficient way to get through almost all the levelling content (and has been as long as I've been playing, over 2 years). And because you can't change Advanced Class; your choices after that choice are constrained to DPS and not-DPS (if you're not one of the two ACs that are DPS or DPS). So not only are the majority of ACs DPS, but the game pushes you to be DPS.

 

So any thoughts on the idea of adding a fourth tank or healer spec to the ACs, or allowing AC switching? There's some irony in some of the strongest opposition to AC switching seems to have, in the past, come from some dedicated Ops players. (Is that too many "somes"?)

 

For AC switching, the two that strike me as the most odd might be Sage/Shadow and Sorcerer/Assassin.