Jedi Covenant and Toxic Attitudes

[FlavivsAetivs]

I'm going to apologize now to those whom I am referring to, but I want to say that the attitude I saw on Jedi Covenant last night was the exact same toxic attitude I see all the time from the PvP community. Frankly the attitude I saw from one GSF'er completely had me by surprise, as he is known for his helpfulness in the GSF community.

 

Jedi Covenant's GSF playerbase is uncoordinated and mediocre because everyone who played competitively left. Coming back here from Harbinger and expecting to see aces, then berating them for their inability to perform is not going to help. At all.

 

I've worked hard to help keep the community on Jedi Cov friendly and inviting, and trying to salvage the Imp GSF community from when you all went to Harbinger. Now that people are coming back to Jedi Cov, I do not want that attitude of elitism and toxicity brought back here.

 

I might not be the best pilot, and yeah I was doing terrible last night (being hunted didn't help either), and yes the pub teams had no spine and couldn't kill bombers on a sat, but cursing and calling them worthless isn't going to help. There were plenty of good players online, we evidently just couldn't coordinate them into an effective team.

 

We like having many of you back, we just don't like the attitude you've brought with you. I'd rather have you all go back to Harbinger if you're just going to berate us.

 

And I can assure you I'm speaking for most of the GSF players who call this server their home. I received a lot of upset whispers last night after the way certain people spoke about the players here.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited March 5, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[caederon]

And I can assure you I'm speaking for most of the GSF players who call this server their home. I received a lot of upset whispers last night after the way certain people spoke about the players here.

So, you're very obviously and specifically referring to me, and instead of going private with it, you brought it to the forum. I'll respond here in kind.

 

Maybe those upset whisperers ought to speak their mind directly. I didn't know you were the official JC server spokesperson that complaints were vetted through to be doled out for public consumption.

 

Yep, I got frustrated, when match after match after match the same stuff kept happening. I didn't single anyone out, and after the match that was the capper I pointed out a lot of patterns of behavior that have been leading to a seemingly endless wave of very trying games. In fact I've made an effort ever since I came over there to give people advice that will help them lose less and improve their personal performance through smarter choices.

 

I guess I just got fed up with having all of my efforts either rebuffed or ignored.

 

So, I apologize for one instance of succumbing to frustration, as humans sometimes do. Thanks for making a public issue of it, because it clearly deserved to be dragged into the forums. In an effort to preserve your friendly community, I will remove myself to some other server.

 

Despon

Edited March 5, 2016 by caederon

[FlavivsAetivs]

Yes, you did speak out Desponn. But no, you are not the only one, I just got complaints after you did. Several people have repeatedly berated the members of Jedi Covenant, some for a very long time.

 

I'm used to it, because at some point I show up the people insulting me and they stop. But last night upset a lot of players after you said what you said, and the reason it did was because it was very direct, while more of it goes unnoticed.

 

I am not the official spokesperson of Jedi Cov, but yeah I'm pissed off too, to be quite frank, and I decided to say something.

 

You're all welcome here, but sometimes things have to be said. We don't appreciate being told we suck any more than if I went over to Ebon Hawk and told them they all sucked, or any other server.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

P.S. @Desponn I apologize that I more or less singled you out. I'm not always tactful.

Edited March 5, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Maulkat]

Having just had to large batch of toxic chat in /gsf on Harb over the last month or so, I can say it's best to get into voice with whoever you have an issue with. Have a mediator in chat with you both to keep it clean and calm down the chat with things get heated. If voice is not option, then keeping it private and working it out is better than broadcasting it in public isn't the best option.

If there's anything I can do to help, let me know.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Well it's not that Maulkat. Desponn snapped last night after being frustrated for some time, and that upset a lot of people because, like I said, they saw it directly. If that hadn't have happened, I probably wouldn't be complaining here.

 

What I'm talking about is that whenever there's any berating of a community that I've noticed, it always seems to be directed at Jedi Cov. I know Eclipse Squadron was doing it once back in September (or so) and I've mentioned that I went over there and flew some matches and asked them to stop. Traesha and I once had (me more than once) a very heated argument with Saevius about this topic. I also remember once she told me about someone from Harb who called all of imp side "P******" and as a female she got pretty mad about that. I do see insults in fleet chat on imp side, where it goes unnoticed since so many play only pub side.

 

Averann will get mad and yell at people too, and yeah I tell him to stop just as much as I am asking here people from other servers to stop.

 

My point is though that for whatever reason, whenever I notice people giving a community crap, it's never Shadowlands', or Ebon Hawk's, or Red Eclipse's. It's either complaining about Harb's premades, which yeah I'll take some responsibility for cause I do talk about that, or giving the members of Jedi cov a bunch of crap they don't deserve.

 

I'm not saying everyone insults Jedi Cov, or that it happens all the time. I'm saying I just see it about us more than anywhere else, from my experience at least, and last night simply hit a nerve.

 

The OP was supposed to be a request to everyone, and yes I wrote it a bit pissed off (for other reasons, actually) and I did single out Desponn (again to whom I apologize, IIRC Jedi Cov is actually his original server).

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited March 5, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs
Removed unnecessary language

[caederon]

Actually, Begeren Colony is the server I started out on, not that it is of any particular relevance. I did fly on JC impside for a while about a year or so before this recent stay.

 

I was wrong to voice my opinions in GSF chat, and they were not directed at the people I had regularly been grouping with.

 

There is a large contingent of players pubside on JC who seem to have no inclination to learn even basic gameplay skills. Match after match plays out like a carbon copy of the last one, with the same easily correctable mistakes causing an avalanche of avoidable losses. If it is elitist to expect people to learn rudimentary elements of the game they're playing, then I guess I'm guilty.

 

An environment where practically every match features 50-75% of my teammates paying no attention to what's going on in the game is a very frustrating one to play in, and it makes me feel my time is wasted participating there... particularly when my efforts to teach people how to compete are ignored.

 

Despon

[FlavivsAetivs]

Every server has crappy players, yeah, you can't avoid that. Typically on JC all they need is coordination, and typically with good leadership they pull together and do well.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that, at least IMO, you went about it the wrong way.

 

If Jedi Covenant is going to become a server for good competitive matches again, it's gonna take a while for it to change.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited March 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Nemarus]

I know Eclipse Squadron was doing it once back in September (or so) and I've mentioned that I went over there and flew some matches and asked them to stop. Traesha and I once had (me more than once) a very heated argument with Saevius about this topic.

 

Huh? Doing what?

 

I've never been on Jedi Covenant. And I don't think many Eclipse Squadron members have either. Most of us are TEH natives and rarely fly elsewhere, save for special events. A few of the nomadic aces are part of Eclipse Squadron in name, but they certainly are not of sufficient rank, nor attached to the guild in any meaningful way, that they can "speak for the guild" in any capacity.

 

So who/what are you referring to? Because if someone is creating a negative impression, on Eclipse Squadron's behalf, on other servers, they're probably about to be kicked from the guild (or have been already).

[DakhathKilrathi]

Huh? Doing what?

 

I've never been on Jedi Covenant. And I don't think many Eclipse Squadron members have either. Most of us are TEH natives and rarely fly elsewhere, save for special events. A few of the nomadic aces are part of Eclipse Squadron in name, but they certainly are not of sufficient rank, nor attached to the guild in any meaningful way, that they can "speak for the guild" in any capacity.

 

So who/what are you referring to? Because if someone is creating a negative impression, on Eclipse Squadron's behalf, on other servers, they're probably about to be kicked from the guild (or have been already).

 

Seconding this. I don't recall that ever happening with anyone on TEH.

 

For that matter, I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone insult JC on TEH at all. Discussions about other servers rarely come up, and when they do it's regarding whether or not pops are more common. Harbinger is the only server I can recall seeing discussed in the [gsf] channel. While it's possible that someone went to JC to trash talk, Nemarus is correct: pretty much everyone in ES is from TEH, and with a few exceptions, we don't get around much. I'm one of those exceptions, but I've got no reason to go play on JC when Harbinger exists.

 

Unless you mean Sidenti/Siddain. I heard Sid went to JC a while back.

 

Can't say I've ever seen anyone insulting JC's community here on the forums, either.

Edited March 6, 2016 by DakhathKilrathi

[MaximilianPower]

Oh my. This thread makes me sad. I was on that night, but I guess it was after all this went down. Since I don't know exactly what was said I can't speak to it specifically, except to say this: GSF is a dangerously small community. We can't really afford a lot of provincial infighting/melodrama. Bottom line: both of you guys care deeply about the game - so let's hug it out. Metaphorically. Or literally, whatever.

 

@Despon - please don't leave JC - not on account of this silliness. I think I speak for most of us when I say that your visits have livened things up, at least from where I sit.

 

@Eudoxia - I mean it sincerely when I say that your presence/enthusiasm/verve are appreciated. You've been a great advocate for GSF on JC. I don't want to diminish those contributions. But stuff like this:

 

Jedi Covenant's GSF playerbase is uncoordinated and mediocre because everyone who played competitively left...I've worked hard to help keep the community on Jedi Cov friendly and inviting, and trying to salvage the Imp GSF community from when you all went to Harbinger. Now that people are coming back to Jedi Cov, I do not want that attitude of elitism and toxicity brought back here.

 

 

...I just can't get behind it. I've written and rewritten a few responses, but in the interests of sticking to my own advice above, I'll simply say that I'm a little confused by these comments. I'm not sure that the imp GSF community needed salvaging; most of the folks who visited Harb did so part-time. I can only think of a couple who departed for good. I, for one, never really left. And I still feel like the factions are fairly balanced, at least from what I've seen.

 

My point is though that for whatever reason, whenever I notice people giving a community crap, it's never Shadowlands', or Ebon Hawk's, or Red Eclipse's.

 

Over the past couple of years I have definitely seen negative crap re: various aspects of all these servers' GSF communities. And others. No server is perfect. And they are all generally more similar than they're different. All have aces, all have their share of noobs, and of irredeemable/unteachable bads. I can't agree that the overall competition level is objectively worse than anywhere else.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Okay, fine. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. If I've made a fool or an *** of myself, then I'm sorry to all involved.

 

This is just what I've seen. Others might have seen other things.

 

...I just can't get behind it. I've written and rewritten a few responses, but in the interests of sticking to my own advice above, I'll simply say that I'm a little confused by these comments. I'm not sure that the imp GSF community needed salvaging; most of the folks who visited Harb did so part-time. I can only think of a couple who departed for good. I, for one, never really left. And I still feel like the factions are fairly balanced, at least from what I've seen.

 

That's because you weren't around for December-January-Early February and hadn't seen how awful Imp side was, there was virtually nothing left other than Korvith and Enurrsha (who very rarely queued), or at least at the times I was playing (which is more or less all day). There'd be some guys who seemed like "regulars" for a week or two but would disappear, or sometimes there would be good nights. But it was mostly noobs when we got pops, none of whom stayed. There's a lot of people who still haven't come back. GSF was great in August-September but things fell apart beginning in October, and by the end of December it was hard to find matches that pubs didn't basically always win. Why the heck do you think I was in matches where I constantly got 15 or 20 or more kills? It's not because I'm an ace pilot, which I'm really not, it's because we were constantly facerolling terrible Imp teams.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited March 6, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[ShalukhyaS]

Yeah Eudoxia has a point , Imp side GSF was total crap at that time ,hence me rolling an imp toon just for GSF to even **** out lol , we treated the imp newbies "FAIRLY" unlike many imp pilots do to pub newbies. Hope one day they will learn to do the same , or we'd have to resort to the same method i.e hunting them down one by one over and over again, most of whom prey on newbies completely when in premades for the sake of kills, if they continue doing so I will personally form hunting groups to see how they like it Edited March 6, 2016 by ShalukhyaS

[Enurrsha]

Oh my. This thread makes me sad. I was on that night, but I guess it was after all this went down. Since I don't know exactly what was said I can't speak to it specifically, except to say this: GSF is a dangerously small community. We can't really afford a lot of provincial infighting/melodrama. Bottom line: both of you guys care deeply about the game - so let's hug it out. Metaphorically. Or literally, whatever.

 

@Despon - please don't leave JC - not on account of this silliness. I think I speak for most of us when I say that your visits have livened things up, at least from where I sit.

 

@Eudoxia - I mean it sincerely when I say that your presence/enthusiasm/verve are appreciated. You've been a great advocate for GSF on JC. I don't want to diminish those contributions. But stuff like this:

 

 

 

...I just can't get behind it. I've written and rewritten a few responses, but in the interests of sticking to my own advice above, I'll simply say that I'm a little confused by these comments. I'm not sure that the imp GSF community needed salvaging; most of the folks who visited Harb did so part-time. I can only think of a couple who departed for good. I, for one, never really left. And I still feel like the factions are fairly balanced, at least from what I've seen.

 

 

 

Over the past couple of years I have definitely seen negative crap re: various aspects of all these servers' GSF communities. And others. No server is perfect. And they are all generally more similar than they're different. All have aces, all have their share of noobs, and of irredeemable/unteachable bads. I can't agree that the overall competition level is objectively worse than anywhere else.

 

 

As I was reading this thread I was pretty much writing Zuck's post in my head, so no need for that now, pretty much all of this I second.

[Enurrsha]

Okay, fine. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. If I've made a fool or an *** of myself, then I'm sorry to all involved.

 

This is just what I've seen. Others might have seen other things.

 

 

 

That's because you weren't around for December-January-Early February and hadn't seen how awful Imp side was, there was virtually nothing left other than Korvith and Enurrsha (who very rarely queued), or at least at the times I was playing (which is more or less all day). There'd be some guys who seemed like "regulars" for a week or two but would disappear, or sometimes there would be good nights. But it was mostly noobs when we got pops, none of whom stayed. There's a lot of people who still haven't come back. GSF was great in August-September but things fell apart beginning in October, and by the end of December it was hard to find matches that pubs didn't basically always win. Why the heck do you think I was in matches where I constantly got 15 or 20 or more kills? It's not because I'm an ace pilot, which I'm really not, it's because we were constantly facerolling terrible Imp teams.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

 

I think what we have here is just a horrible time-of-day-related talent differential. I've flown almost nightly for the last several months or more on various toons, especially Enurrsha (200 matches or so just on him in the last 3-4 months if I had to guess). I have seen that generally pub side dominates afternoon hours into early evening & imp takes over around 9/10pm eastern or so.

[FlavivsAetivs]

I was flying till midnight in that time period I mentioned and Imps were just as bad as they were during the daytime.

 

~ Eudoxia

[Nemarus]

So Flavis, can you please elaborate on the vague, generalized accusation you made about the entirety of Eclipse Squadron? I still don't understand what you're saying happened.

[MaximilianPower]

I think what we have here is just a horrible time-of-day-related talent differential. I've flown almost nightly for the last several months or more on various toons, especially Enurrsha (200 matches or so just on him in the last 3-4 months if I had to guess). I have seen that generally pub side dominates afternoon hours into early evening & imp takes over around 9/10pm eastern or so.

 

This is more or less what I've experienced over the past year or so. I used to GSF on JC during AM/afternoon (ET) hours more or less every day, up until a couple months ago, when I started splitting those hours between TRE and Harb (partly for a change of pace, and partly because the pops were more frequent). Then I'd typically return to JC at night. And what BK describes is (largely) what I saw, day in and day out. During the "early" shift pubs would usually win, often by a lot; later in the day, it seemed more even, or tilted towards imp side. Let's just say if I played imp at night, I never felt that the chips were stacked against me.

 

That may well have changed, as Eudoxia & Averann indicated. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not the case. I'd be curious to hear from any other JC imp-folk. Maybe Saevius, K'orvith, or one of the many server nomads have an opinion here.

[SeCKSEgai]

GSF is a dangerously small community.

 

I think this is something people should be focusing on more than anything at this point. The smaller we get, the easier it is for personalities and points of view to clash.

[Kinsha]

we treated the imp newbies "FAIRLY" unlike many imp pilots do to pub newbies. Hope one day they will learn to do the same

 

It is my experience that whoever is on the winning side believes they are treating the people getting curb stomped "Fairly". Also when a beat down is being given, it is "deserved". Just human nature.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Kinsha

[Tulmara]

This is what worries me about the upcoming server merges ... incoming toxic attitudes from other servers.

I play on Begeren Colony and for the most part the GSF community is pretty good.

Over 100 matches now on my main and alts and have only came across abuse in 1 in 20 matches.

By abuse I mean ragers, consistent lag shielders, exploiters and conquest bots.

However in a match I was just in 30 minutes ago one player was extremely toxic.

Before the match started he said he plays Imp side and warned us to watch out for 3 players before the match started, all very good. The Ops leader also warned about a 4th player then our "Imp" chimed in

saying forget about him "he's as weak as all f*ck"

Generally before the start of a match when both sides are lined up, and your side is filled mostly with

the stock standard starting ships, while theirs is lined up with 5 ship players you know you're going to be in for a bad time, this was going to be one of those matches.

Well, in such confined spaces, with his mines out we couldn't shake this weak as all f*ck player off C.

Then our Imp started raging screaming at us in capitals saying C YOU TARDS

and THIS IS WHY I WRECK YOU PUB SIDE, followed up by more foul language.

You want GSF queues to be longer ? You want to chase off new players while offering no strategy advice ?

Well start acting like this guy and you'll do just that !!!

[FlavivsAetivs]

So Flavis, can you please elaborate on the vague, generalized accusation you made about the entirety of Eclipse Squadron? I still don't understand what you're saying happened.

 

Sorry Nemarus. Someone asked me through PM from you guys and I responded there.

 

Some of the server nomads who play on Ebon Hawk regularly said that they saw a few guys from Eclipse Squadron talking trash about JC, so I went over there, played a few matches, and in GSF chat asked people to stop. This was months ago, back in September, and I never knew who exactly was doing it.

 

I guess if nobody was online in/paying attention to GSF chat, that could well be why word never got to you.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited March 7, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[RatPoison]

Traesha and I once had (me more than once) a very heated argument with Saevius about this topic.

 

Don't drag me into whatever crap fest you're getting started here, especially when you run around calling me an *** whenever the urge hits. Not interested.

 

...

 

And Despon, you're free to come sling around JC with me when the urge hits. I don't do it anymore, but I'd make an exception and party up with you for giggles whenever you're feeling frisky on JC. I suck at being social and am a glorified ***, but I can shoot straight... most of the times.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Don't drag me into whatever crap fest you're getting started here, especially when you run around calling me an *** whenever the urge hits. Not interested.

 

Yeah I did a couple times cause I was pissed at you. Other than that, I usually don't insult people.

 

EDIT: As I said before. Maybe it was wrong of me to bring up this discussion here. I think it's just time for me to say I was wrong and for it to be over.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited March 8, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Stradlin]

 

That's because you weren't around for December-January-Early February and hadn't seen how awful Imp side was, there was virtually nothing left other than Korvith and Enurrsha

 

Why don't you folks just fly both factions? Progenitor has at least half of the regulars switching factions more or less constantly.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Stradlin

[DakhathKilrathi]

Sorry Nemarus. Someone asked me through PM from you guys and I responded there.

 

Some of the server nomads who play on Ebon Hawk regularly said that they saw a few guys from Eclipse Squadron talking trash about JC, so I went over there, played a few matches, and in GSF chat asked people to stop. This was months ago, back in September, and I never knew who exactly was doing it.

 

I guess if nobody was online in/paying attention to GSF chat, that could well be why word never got to you.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

So... you heard some rumors, and with no proof or justification, you're saying negative things about part of another server's community here on the forums.

 

Pot, meet kettle.