The Root Of All Toxic Players ( Personal opinion )

[iacon]

GrandLordMenace makes a good point about there being different sorts of "toxic" people. Everyone falls into one of the categories to some degree or another. That is just being human with feelings. How much a person allows the trait to control their actions determines the level of toxicity they exude. In other words, how much does emotion dictate their actions and reactions.

 

The "non-toxic" person is able to take a step back and keep their emotions in check. They are able to control their emotions rather than allow their emotions to control them. Yes, it is cliche, but it's the truth of the matter.

 

And to address anonymity; it does not make or break the toxic person. It facilitates and magnifies the good and the bad. It makes no distinction.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Like I said, elitist attitude.

 

No, s/he's absolutely right and it has nothing to do with being elitist.

 

If you as a healer, are politely asking people not rush ahead before you've had time to recharge for the next fight, not to knock CC'd mobs out of CC with AOE abilities, not to stand like a stump in Red Circles of Death, and you're repeatedly being ignored...why is it your responsibility to continue to accommodate players who are being rude/inconsiderate towards you?

 

Let them eat a repair bill. That usually tends to get people who've ignored you previously, to start listening.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[MWidowmaker]

 

Bad players are toxic players. Bad people are toxic.

 

spot on

[Aeneas_Falco]

Yo, knock it off with that anti-anonymity speech. You may not value privacy, online safety, security as much as the next person who appreciate anonymity does, but it's a necessary and valuable part of the internet.

 

.

 

I don't think anyone that blames it on the anonymity of the internet is asking for that anonymity be taken away. They're just saying that the anonymity of it enables certain types of people, who in most cases are probably fairly normal in every day life, to transform into verbally aggressive d-bags online. The anonymity and physical distance between the people interacting removes the real world consequences for insulting people, and that leads to a more toxic atmosphere than what you'd typically experience interacting with people offline.

 

That's just an absolute truth.

[Qouivandes]

i dps a lot and I'm not toxic. I used to heal more and I used to tank a bit. Whati have observed, though, is the person doing the most yelling is more often than not trying to redirect attention away from themselves. This could just as easily be an inexperienced tank or a vet tank who made a mistake. it could also be a healer that missed a heal or made a mistake. it could also be a dps not doing enough dps or did something wrong.

 

however, i find that it is subjective to the situation and person. i have seen just as many healers go off on a tangent as i have seen tanks and dps. But to state that the root of toxicity lies solely on the shoulders of someone playing a dps role is just absurd.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

Welcome to life as a healer in any game, here is your training video:

 

 

I love you (and the maker of that video).

 

On the other side of the DPS haters, here is the rules of Tanking, in song format:

[DomiSotto]

Perhaps I have picked the wrong word. Perhaps I should have emphasized the distrust of stranger.

 

Internet is a weird thing. On one hand it lets you to feel closer to people whose real names you will never know, whose faces you will never see, on another you discover your primal reactions.

 

In all likelihood your reaction towards someone who is a complete unknown is going to be hostile and less forgiving than towards someone you've talked to, you know, you like. It is harder and harder to extend empathy whence you start moving further out from self, to your lover, to your friend, to your neighbor, to the lady that rides the same bus, to someone you don't know at all.

 

Unfortunately, the emphasis on the individualism, solitude, self-expression and self-worth, as awesome as it is on its own, comes at the expense of losing the habit of empathy and benevolence towards the other humans. It sorts of creates that vague dissatisfaction. I think we are content when we belong. Content people cope.

 

And that is why, I believe, in a run with the guildies you have known for a few months, when you fall off the stair towards Revan it causes chuckles, and friendly nudges about scary Bridge Bosses, but in a pug it's gonna be swearing and name-calling.

 

We are just having more troubles loving other humans simply because they are humans just like you are.

Edited February 19, 2016 by DomiSotto

[aerockyul]

hahaha this is funny but I can see where you are coming from @ OP. I'm a mean healer myself along with my tank. If DPS runs ahead or keeps pulling aggro we let them die. If it happens enough we kick them.

 

I'm the opposite and perhaps I and others like me are responsible for the people who claim they've done the content before many times when they're really making things more difficult, because they had me or someone else carrying them and to them it seemed all normal because they weren't dying (barely) and they weren't called out as making things more difficult.

I apologize to the community for allowing these egos to run unchecked until someone blows up at them

[Max_Killjoy]

This thread is a great illustration why, when some endgame-elitist says "Do you even raid, bro?", I say "nope".

 

I don't pay for sub time to waste my limited relaxation time watching a bunch of other people argue over who's fault it is that we wiped again, caught between the "extreme elites" and the "ultra-causuals" in a raid group.

 

(I don't claim to be at all elite or even that great, but I don't stand in stupid, and I do my absolute best to follow the instructions and keep up with the mechanics of the fight. I always let the tank hit something first before I start, unless I'm specifically told otherwise. Because I'm usually playing Merc or Sorc, I'll drop a few instant heals on myself to let the healer concentrate on the tank, without breaking my rotation. I burn ads when I'm told. Etc.)

[xdirengrey]

Thank you everyone for your honest input!

[freddydeee]

I'm the opposite and perhaps I and others like me are responsible for the people who claim they've done the content before many times when they're really making things more difficult, because they had me or someone else carrying them and to them it seemed all normal because they weren't dying (barely) and they weren't called out as making things more difficult.

I apologize to the community for allowing these egos to run unchecked until someone blows up at them

 

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. I'm not a jerk. We usually ask if someone has played the content, and then when they keep messing up the mechanics of the whole operation or HM then we tell them.. Then after that I just don't heal them. I mean I'm the healer I am going to keep my tank and the group as a whole in my line of sight, by having a little DPS run off to god knows where and aggro things else where means I can

 

A. leave everyone else and try to save the single little dps while he aggros more things.

 

B. or stay with the group and Tank and allow the little dps who decided to run off just die and hope they learn their lesson.

 

good times though.. even if i run through as a dps though I never bash healer or tank.. Because how do we know if its their 1st time and they're just to shy to admit it. Always respect those who play support roles..

[KLGChaos]

I play DPS. While I agree it seems like there's a lot of toxic players that play DPS, I think its more due to the fact that there's a lot more DPS players than tanks or healers. In all the MMOs I've played, I've seen my fair share of toxic players across the entire trilogy. Tanks who speed pull without caring if the group is ready or not and then abandoning the group or insta-kicking players who they feel aren't moving fast enough (there was a big debate about this on the FFXIV forums). I've seen healers who actually refuse to heal DPS at all in some games because they expect them to play perfectly at all times and take no damage (The Secret World got a lot of this).

 

We spend so much time in this world dividing people into classes and slapping labels on them, which then evolves into entire groups being associated with the actions of individual people. It's why politics are so messed up right now. If you say anything in disagreement with someone else, you're automatically labeled an extreme conservative or liberal , even if you're actually very moderate. Everyone is different.

Edited February 20, 2016 by KLGChaos

[Draqsko]

You have GOT to be joking right? As a DPS player, do you know how many PuGs I pull aggro in? Almost every one!!!

 

My job is to DPS...I do it and I do it well. I don't stand in stupid, I don't make many mental errors...but I only have ONE aggro drop that's on a 1min timer...I try to back off when I have to, but that's not my role. Don't blame me for doing my job, and dying. To suggest that DPS only dies to stupidity is ludicrous...most of the time when I die, it's because someone else didn't do their job.

 

I think there's been 2 tanks I've ever run with that could ever hold aggro from me during a raid or FP when I go all out, threat drop or no. But yet I've never died unless I did something stupid, and part of doing something stupid is not knowing when to back off and pace yourself in relation to the tank.

 

So yes, most of the time you died, it was probably because you didn't pace yourself correctly, which is part of your job as a DPS. Knowing how much to pour on, and adjusting that in relation to the rest of the group around is what makes you a good DPS or not, sitting there tunneling the boss so you can hit high numbers does not make you a good DPS.

[Draqsko]

You just described a scrub. Failing group content doesn't make you a toxic player.

It's more along your attitude and interaction with others, that can qualify you as toxic.

 

Your post there expresses your disdain for scrubs, and gives off a hint of elitism based on your attitude towards people who fail.

 

You know the irony of all that is, I've probably taken more newbs through operations in this game than most other people have. I don't have a disdain for newbs, I have a disdain for people who refuse to learn from their mistakes and keep making the same mistakes repeatedly. I also have a disdain for elitists that want to race through operations at the expense of the newbs who are with them, in fact if they don't slow down after I say hey, there's some new people here that don't know the fight mechanics, I kick those elitists from the group and find someone who will help others learn.

[Draqsko]

I love you (and the maker of that video).

 

On the other side of the DPS haters, here is the rules of Tanking, in song format:

 

Oh yeah, that's another of my favorites and also my philosophy, I'll bail out the first pull because they might have just made a mistake or something, but if it keeps happening yeah they are gonna eat dirt. It's doubly effective because I don't do anything without my girlfriend and she's the healer usually so it's really easy to say hey, don't heal him so he learns not to pull ahead of the tank.

[Draqsko]

(I don't claim to be at all elite or even that great, but I don't stand in stupid, and I do my absolute best to follow the instructions and keep up with the mechanics of the fight. I always let the tank hit something first before I start, unless I'm specifically told otherwise. Because I'm usually playing Merc or Sorc, I'll drop a few instant heals on myself to let the healer concentrate on the tank, without breaking my rotation. I burn ads when I'm told. Etc.)

 

^ this is exactly the person I love in ops and fps as a raid leader. Not just doing DPS because that's my job, but also the little things that help the entire group. Off healing, buffs, stealth out for raises to save the combat raise for tanks, burning adds instead of tunneling the boss.

 

I can work around bad DPS numbers, I can change the group comp up to finish fights even though you might only put out 2k dps. But what I can't do is change your attitude and how you approach the group, are you a team player or do you just care about doing your job? When I raid, I want team players, not a bunch of elite solo players.

 

PS. And Max, in one post you actually changed my opinion of you. Sure you troll the forums a bit but I never imagined you as a team player.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Draqsko

[Raideen]

I agree with most of the responses. This could all be due to the fact that there are simply more dps present. However, in the original post, the OP came across as quite condescending toward dps. The whole smash monkey on the keyboard statement could be taken as offensive to many people. If you approach players in game with this attitude, they will respond in kind.

 

^ This!

 

I have not witnessed in 12 years of MMO's and raiding what the OP suggests. If anything it seems that people who play tanks and healers are most often the jerks of the group. I can't even count how many times a tank has been a toxic person and healers always seem to be self righteous.

[DataBeaver]

Personally when I play a dps and I die, usually its my fault. But, if I did everything correctly, then I usually look to the healer. I've done FPs and Raids with healers that stand there and wait until people are almost dead and then start spamming deliverance. Or people that spam one heal the entire time and we end up dying.

In a guild run a week or two back we wiped because one of the healers had forgotten to put on a mainhand (he uses the same set of legacy gear for multiple characters I think). We laughed at him and gave him a funny rank for a short while. He took it in good spirit, equipped his mainhand and we proceeded to kill the boss.

[DataBeaver]

It is far more difficult to see when the dps make 'mistakes' as their mistakes are generally tied to poor / low dps, and without meters or something like the council fight in EV to measure the player, its hard to see (though hitting enrage is a good indication that at least one of the dps is making 'mistakes').

If the DPS makes mistakes, the boss enrages. Then everyone dies and it's the healer's fault for not healing through 300% damage.

[AurraPing]

I have been a tank healer and dps and there are jerks in all roles. Groupfinder has a lot of them can't count how many times some dps tried to get me kicked as a healer because they started being a jerk. I stopped healing them except with aoe heals and focused on only the other people in the group. Edited February 20, 2016 by AurraPing

[NigeldeJ]

The fact is that most fights, especially the SM ops where you'll find most baddies (either cause they can't pull numbers required for HM, or they can't work together in a group with others) are really lenient towards DPS. Healers and tanks have a way harder challenge, especially if a tank is badly geared/sucks, or a healer isn't performing well. People dying will first and foremost be blamed on the healers. Same with tanks taking too much damage, either they or the healers are being blamed.

 

Yet nobody bats an eye at the sucky dps that is eating AOE's and doing ****** damage. Yet they're usually the ones complaining the loudest. But since there's usually at least 1 or 2 dps that know what they're doing, you won't really notice it. I don't think that most toxic players are dps, it's just easier for dps to yell and complain at healers and tanks, so it might be more obvious. Plus, as has been said before, dps are way more common compared to tanks and healers because it's the easiest role to fill. Hence why it might look like they complain the most (which is statistically speaking true). Lots of people can do the 3k (or whatever is required per dps on sm bosses), not many can pull let's say 5 or 6. People that don't do well at tanking/healing just go dps and get carried by the rest.

[xdirengrey]

^ this is exactly the person i love in ops and fps as a raid leader. Not just doing dps because that's my job, but also the little things that help the entire group. Off healing, buffs, stealth out for raises to save the combat raise for tanks, burning adds instead of tunneling the boss.

 

I can work around bad dps numbers, i can change the group comp up to finish fights even though you might only put out 2k dps. But what i can't do is change your attitude and how you approach the group, are you a team player or do you just care about doing your job? When i raid, i want team players, not a bunch of elite solo players.

 

Ps. And max, in one post you actually changed my opinion of you. Sure you troll the forums a bit but i never imagined you as a team player.

 

this this this

[Jackosaur]

The logic here is faulty at best.

[Kiesu]

Sadly, in grouping content most is expected of the DPS, to the point where raid leaders demand participation on Star Parsing to see and judge your performance. At worst this leads to over-competitive nature among players where they can think nothing but numbers, and sacrifice environmental awareness to tunnel-vision the boss/target for high numbers- or in other cases AOEing and dot spreading on mobs that you shoudlnt be dpsing, sacrificing dps on the actual target for the sake of looking good via numbers generated from other targets (bulo/cartel warlords).

DPS is expected to keep up perfect rotation in a living fight and many non-dps players fail to realize how difficult that can be for variety of reasons not only dependent on the dps but other group members too. They get blamed for things that weren't even their fault (tanks not positioning boss effectively, heals not ready to swap heavy healing targets on loose aggro) > this leads to dps blaming everyone else for things that might not have been their fault either. It is a a self repeating circle of blame with a pissing contest in between.

 

It is true DPS players tend to get noticeably more pissy, but only because there is more dps players in general, double the amount of heals and tanks doubles the chance of pissheads. I am betting however, it is because of wrong-blaming that players have picked up from each-others and use it as a revenge relief on randoms. Unfortunate but I see this often. Its easy to see this happen if you are experienced in playing all roles in raid/pvp to tell if wrongblaming is taking place, or simple pissyness from variety of possible reasons leading to it.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Kiesu

[nanamaryjj]

I respectfully disagree OP

Toxic players make toxic players, in every mmo I've played, I've bumped into elitist tanks, self entitled healers and IRULE dps

A class means nothing, it's the person hiding behind a monitor is what does