The Root Of All Toxic Players ( Personal opinion )

[Draqsko]

Healers suffer from a ' I'm God' syndrome and/or an elitist attitude towards the rest of their fellow gamers. Reading the posts in this thread only confirms it.

 

Nah, I only refuse to heal people that act like idiots even after being told fight mechanics and what they should or should not be doing. Sorry I'm not going to encourage their bad behavior by healing their mistakes. And if they cause me to die and rack up a repair bill because of their obstinacy, well at that point I have better things to do so it's either me or the idiot is getting kicked from the group.

 

So hey, if you don't want me playing God, try treating me as a person instead of your personal healbot.

[LoverNoFighter]

Nah, I only refuse to heal people that act like idiots even after being told fight mechanics and what they should or should not be doing. Sorry I'm not going to encourage their bad behavior by healing their mistakes. And if they cause me to die and rack up a repair bill because of their obstinacy, well at that point I have better things to do so it's either me or the idiot is getting kicked from the group.

 

So hey, if you don't want me playing God, try treating me as a person instead of your personal healbot.

 

You're a healer. It's your job to heal. Do your job.

[Draqsko]

You're a healer. It's your job to heal. Do your job.

 

I can't heal stupidity.

[StarkHelsing]

I can't heal stupidity.

 

Sigh- So true, so painfully true.

[LoverNoFighter]

I can't heal stupidity.

 

Like I said, elitist attitude.

[Pagy]

did anyone stop to think that constantly whining about other players and calling them toxic is...toxic?

[Draqsko]

Like I said, elitist attitude.

 

How is it elitist when you tell people not to stand in circles because you can't heal them through it, and they go and stand in circles ANYWAYS?

 

Maybe you need to learn how to play with a group and what each role should be doing. Here's a hint for all the DPS out there, you shouldn't be standing in stuff that hurts you I don't care how badly you want to tunnel for 0.1 extra dps.

 

There's 3 rules in doing group content:

1) If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.

2) If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.

3) If a DPS dies, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

 

PS. And that's not elitist to say that, because I play all 3 roles, tank, healer, and DPS. If I die while playing DPS the first thing I say in mumble is oops, my bad anyone got a stealth rez ready?

Edited February 19, 2016 by Draqsko

[richiesilva]

Let us also not forget this level sync thing has made FPs much harder - when you have low-level players with few skills and unbalanced builds playing end-game content, it often doesn't work. Then things go downward spiral very quickly and it is a matter of time before insults start being thrown around and people begin to blame each other. Even if you follow mechanics.

[DomiSotto]

I've started group content in this game as a healer, and when I tried to DPS, holy cow, that's a huge increase in difficulty and demand on the player.

 

It's that much, much, much harder to switch the targets, stay on target, maintain the output while moving as a DPS, the number of abilities is overwhelmingly more numerous, using your utilities to cover for other folks.interrupt/cc is important, and you cannot for the most part maintain your own health as required. Even meeting the posted output on a dummy is far from trivial as a DPS, as most of the ACs are not exactly Arsenal and Madness.

 

I certainly don't believe that the root of toxicity is because DPS as a role lacking responsibility!!!

 

The sole root of toxicity is anonymity and the innate human distrust of a stranger.

Edited February 19, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Max_Killjoy]

I've started group content in this game as a healer, and when I tried to DPS, holy cow, that's a huge increase in difficulty and demand on the player.

 

It's that much, much, much harder to switch the targets, stay on target, maintain the output while moving as a DPS, the number of abilities is overwhelmingly more numerous, using your utilities to cover for other folks.interrupt/cc is important, and you cannot for the most part maintain your own health as required. Even meeting the posted output on a dummy is far from trivial as a DPS, as most of the ACs are not exactly Arsenal and Madness.

 

I certainly don't believe that the root of toxicity is because DPS as a role lacking responsibility!!!

 

The sole root of toxicity is anonymity and the innate human distrust of a stranger.

 

That's depressing to read... my two favorite characters are my Arsenal Merc and Madness Sorc.... now I'm finding out that they're "easy mode" or something, utterly by coincidence.

[JediQuaker]

And what do you know, the team is filled with dps, .

This sounds as if it must have been a Tactical, if there was no tank.

In a Tactical there are no real "roles" and people need to be aware to use the kolto stations themselves and not depend upon a "healer" - tanks in particular need to learn this. (Tanks also need to realize that they don't really need to tank in a Tactical FP, so there's no need to complain if a DPS jumps in and steals agro, but that's another issue. )

 

But, in general, as people have said, welcome to the wild world of healing. Many players have never played a healer and have no idea....

Edited February 19, 2016 by JediQuaker

[TUXs]

I think people with ridiculous biases are the most toxic.

[Pagy]

I think people with ridiculous biases are the most toxic.

winner!

[TUXs]

3) If a DPS dies, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

You have GOT to be joking right? As a DPS player, do you know how many PuGs I pull aggro in? Almost every one!!!

 

My job is to DPS...I do it and I do it well. I don't stand in stupid, I don't make many mental errors...but I only have ONE aggro drop that's on a 1min timer...I try to back off when I have to, but that's not my role. Don't blame me for doing my job, and dying. To suggest that DPS only dies to stupidity is ludicrous...most of the time when I die, it's because someone else didn't do their job.

[Pagy]

There's 3 rules in doing group content:

1) If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.

2) If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.

3) If a DPS dies, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

none of these points are absolutely correct. none of them.

[Max_Killjoy]

i think people with ridiculous biases are the most toxic.

 

Bang.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[DomiSotto]

That's depressing to read... my two favorite characters are my Arsenal Merc and Madness Sorc.... now I'm finding out that they're "easy mode" or something, utterly by coincidence.

 

The rotations make sense and is easy to get in. They also do not have strict positional requirements, can see things better off a distance not having their vision obscured by the multiple bodies like a melee and can switch targets easier. It's good, not bad, because less room for error is better.

[beattlebilly]

There's 3 rules in doing group content:

1) If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.

2) If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.

3) If a DPS dies, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

 

 

No, sometimes #3 if the DPS dies it is either the tanks fault by not holding aggro(even if the DPS is adjusting their output to try and compensate for the tank's lack) or the healer doesn't cleanse.

[ludoviccb]

How is it elitist when you tell people not to stand in circles because you can't heal them through it, and they go and stand in circles ANYWAYS?

 

Maybe you need to learn how to play with a group and what each role should be doing. Here's a hint for all the DPS out there, you shouldn't be standing in stuff that hurts you I don't care how badly you want to tunnel for 0.1 extra dps.

 

There's 3 rules in doing group content:

1) If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.

2) If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.

3) If a DPS dies, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

 

PS. And that's not elitist to say that, because I play all 3 roles, tank, healer, and DPS. If I die while playing DPS the first thing I say in mumble is oops, my bad anyone got a stealth rez ready?

 

3) Isn't always true.

 

If the dps die from the boss direct attacks, he didn't pull it before the tank, gave some time for the tank to build aggro and he use his aggro drop, that's the tank fault. If the dps pull aggro after the first 15s and there isn't an aggro drop mechanic on the boss, that's the tank fault, by then, he should have enough aggro. Same way if the dps got a high damage mechanic and the healer isn't cleansing it (like the nanites in the Brontes fight or the stun in the Torque fight just before the floor vent), that's the healer fault that the dps die.

 

Quite a few times, I tell the tank to guard my dps and he keep saying that the healer need the guard. I'm a great dps in just about every class, not geared, just old 192-198 gear and bolster and I parse consistantly between 4-5k dps on boss. Most tanks that I saw in pug started having aggro trouble with dps parsing around 4k sustained. Pulling aggro almost 1.5 minutes in the fight with an operative dps is quite annoying when you already used your combat stealth to drop aggro the 1st time and the tank doesn't taunt.

 

The role of a dps is to do as much damage as possible while taking as little damage as possible. If the dps take avoidable damage and die, it's his fault, otherwise it's someone else.

 

In my experience, dps is the easiest role to be ok at, but the hardest to be great at and most of the great dps don't use GF anymore since they already got everything from HM ops much more easily.

 

Also, for the main topic of this thread, I saw toxic players in all roles and most of them are usually badly affected by the Dunning-Kruger effect and believe they are much better players than they really are.

 

Had one of those in a progression raid group, a toxic dps in that case. He kept saying all the time how great of a dps he was and was a toxic player when pugging and we kicked him from the guild. I'm joinning a raid team with another guild and here he is again. We all get into StarParse, and he is once again saying how great of a dps he is. All the dps are about as geared and we are doing Ravager and ToS sm one after the other to start gearing up. For every single fight in those 2 operations, he was the last dps in term of dps output and usually by about 1k from the lowest other dps. The next week, he didn't get in StarParse and the one after he was out. He was with a group with great dps and he saw that for all his posturing and attitude, he wasn't that great and didn't like it.

Edited February 19, 2016 by ludoviccb

[Falensawino]

The root of toxicism in MMORPG communities is elitism.

 

To believe someone is better because he raids in organized groups. To believe you are special because you achieved something completely none mattering as like a computer game which makes you superior..

Healers suffer from a ' I'm God' syndrome and/or an elitist attitude towards the rest of their fellow gamers. Reading the posts in this thread only confirms it.

I can't heal stupidity.

Like I said, elitist attitude.

How is it elitist when you tell people not to stand in circles because you can't heal them through it, and they go and stand in circles ANYWAYS?

 

Maybe you need to learn how to play with a group and what each role should be doing. Here's a hint for all the DPS out there, you shouldn't be standing in stuff that hurts you I don't care how badly you want to tunnel for 0.1 extra dps.

 

There's 3 rules in doing group content:

1) If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.

2) If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.

3) If a DPS dies, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

 

PS. And that's not elitist to say that, because I play all 3 roles, tank, healer, and DPS. If I die while playing DPS the first thing I say in mumble is oops, my bad anyone got a stealth rez ready?

You just described a scrub. Failing group content doesn't make you a toxic player.

It's more along your attitude and interaction with others, that can qualify you as toxic.

 

Your post there expresses your disdain for scrubs, and gives off a hint of elitism based on your attitude towards people who fail.

 

 

 

There's 3 rules in doing group content:

1) If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.

2) If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.

3) If a DPS dies, IT'S THEIR OWN DAMN FAULT.

If a DPS dies, it could be the fault of any of the three types of roles.

 

(a.) tank didn't hold aggro, boss attacked the dps with highest damage output or didn't time a taunt/boss mechanic right.

(b.) healer didn't heal dps, because healer prioritized the tank or had his healing abilities strained healing the entire group.

(c.) dps may have made a personal error. died because of personal error or some other variable we are overlooking in this discussion. mistakes happen or this dps could be a scrub.

 

This entire thread is misleading because it blames toxic behavior on MMO Trinity (tank, heal, dps) roles instead of studying the individuals themselves who misbehave.

 

You're not going to find the root cause of toxic by blaming the trinity combat role system.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Falensawino

[Falensawino]

The sole root of toxicity is anonymity and the innate human distrust of a stranger.

Yo, knock it off with that anti-anonymity speech. You may not value privacy, online safety, security as much as the next person who appreciates anonymity does, but it's a necessary and valuable part of the internet.

 

Think of this topic like a school shooter, video games don't make people violent but someone messed in the head, was already messed up way before they played their first video game.

 

a toxic person has tendencies in their psyche to be toxic way before they got access to the internet or anonymity.

 

Anonymity does not factor in how that person became messed up or toxic. Anonymity only contributes to you (a random stranger on the internet) finding out this messed up or toxic person exists. Anonymity is only part of online communication, being able to tell others what you think.

 

Anonymity has NOTHING to do with the crap life or crappy way you were raised that made you messed up or toxic in the first place.

 

It's true some people are born with disorders, but killers are made and raised in society. Environmental and nurturing factors played a hand in making that person toxic or messed in the head.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Falensawino

[Taramayne]

Yo, knock it off with that anti-anonymity speech. You may not value privacy, online safety, security as much as the next person who appreciate anonymity does, but it's a necessary and valuable part of the internet.

 

Think of this topic like a school shooter, video games don't make people violent but someone messed in the head, was already messed up way before they played their first video game.

 

a toxic person has tendencies in their psyche to be toxic way before they got access to the internet or anonymity.

 

Anonymity does not factor in how that person became messed up or toxic. Anonymity only contributes to you (a random stranger on the internet) finding out this messed up or toxic person exists. Anonymity is only part of online communication, being able to tell others what you think.

 

Anonymity has NOTHING to do with the crap life or crappy way you were raised that made you messed up or toxic in the first place.

 

It's true some people are born with disorders, but killers are made and raised in society. Environmental and nurturing factors played a hand in making that person toxic or messed in the head.

 

I disagree.

 

Yes there are other reasons for people being toxic. However in my experience, I have seen most people far more willing to engage in rude behavior on the internet where the chances of actual consequence are minimal, than if they were face to face where the chances of consequence are very real depending on circumstance.

 

Anonymity DOES have a significant effect on folks' willingness to be toxic IMO. Not the SOLE effect, but a very significant one.

[Max_Killjoy]

"Character is who you are when no one is looking."

[Khevar]

Yo, knock it off with that anti-anonymity speech. You may not value privacy, online safety, security as much as the next person who appreciate anonymity does, but it's a necessary and valuable part of the internet.

You're acting like Domi is demanding people post their names and addresses or something.

 

Just because someone recognizes that anonymity is the perfect venue for people to act like turds, doesn't mean they want privacy from the internet eradicated.

[GrandLordMenace]

So, I'd like to talk about this topic because I've self consciously described myself as moderately "toxic" in the past, or I've been generally misunderstood as "toxic."

 

I think in general, toxicity is a product of social immaturity, or overall misunderstanding by others, or an innate frustration with others. It's not always malevolent, per se, but it indeed can be.

 

I've met many toxic people that are, to be blunt, brain dead *********** retarded, and toxicity can emerge from absolute pure stupidity. We'll call these the Supreme Bad. They aren't always idiotic in reality, and they often aren't, but they are vocal, and they relish their ability to incite venom from a community, purely from how bad they are and how badly they can screw over the group with their incompetence.

 

Another type of toxic person is someone that wants to see the world burn. We'll call these World Burners. This is your very rare group finder person that aims to basically screw you over. (This is the one most people feel they see most often, but in reality I think is far less likely, and many people are a blend of gray). This is basically what happens when trolling gets out of hand.

 

Most toxic people aren't like World Burners or Supreme Bads, but they exist.

 

The more common forms of toxicity are more difficult to discern, but still exist. I'll coin various other types.

 

Often times, toxic players are "better" players, in the game skill sense of the word, and what many misname as toxicity, or malevolent intent, may just be used to a different ceiling of competence, and as such, are frustrated by the lack thereof in whatever situation they are in. These are what I will call Elitists. They take the game seriously, often to the bewilderment of those around them, and are flabbergasted when others don't.

 

Another type of toxic player, just as common as Elitists, are the Wannabes. These are people that are very close to being Elitists, but aren't quite that assured of that personal skill, and compensate by lashing out at other players, only for wholly different reasons. While Elitists are annoyed at the incompetence of those around them, Wannabes are annoyed at how they aren't at the level of the Elitist, and as such, compensate by lashing out at the people they feel are dragging them down, when in reality the problem is with themselves.

 

Finally, the last skill related toxic player is the Supreme Casual, who refuses to listen to absolutely anyone, and generally is the absolute most common, and abhors anyone who wants to take the game seriously. Most casuals are NOT supreme casuals, just as not every good player who takes the game seriously is a harmful elitist. Rather, it's mostly the extremists of these groups that create these categories. Supreme Casuals specialize in subverting the goals of the Elitists, and their nontoxic skilled player counterparts, by ridiculing the concept of taking the game seriously, and raising tensions between the camps. It's through this that more and more toxic players are created, as many players are forced to take a side.

 

(and by the way, don't look down on people who take the game seriously, toxicity results from others not understanding other people's circumstances or what they want out of a game, Elitists, and their counterpart the supreme casual, are both two sides of the same coin, and the conflicts between them result in neither side understanding the other, and dragging their nontoxic counterparts into the conversation)

 

I think everyone has a bit of toxicity in them, and I truly think toxicity is a misnomer in a lot of cases, and infact I actually think only World Burners and Supreme Bads are true toxic people, in that they troll how they troll in order to get a rise out of people, they truly enjoy the method to their madness. In contrast, the latter 3 "toxic people," which in reality are just misunderstood and conflicting elements of a community, often truly believe what they espouse, they aren't actually out to screw the community over, rather from their particular points of view, they are justified and right in their beliefs.

 

Remember, ALWAYS remember, people play the game casually to have fun and have no commitments, people play the game seriously to have fun, and to facilitate other people who also take the game seriously to have fun, simply because you can see more of the content being serious, than joking around. No side is inherently wrong, but they don't really mix well.

Edited February 19, 2016 by GrandLordMenace