How The Old Republic can compete and beat Guild Wars 2

[Daxramas]

Is GW2 staying F2P, like no subfee? I'm pretty sure that if they charged a sub for GW2 it wouldn't be as popular. My wife played very little of GW 1 for breaks off of WoW. I tried it out and I told her thank god there is no sub for this game.

 

This is my strongest opinion though: If SWTOR does go bad after the free month where a massive amount of people stop their subs, and Bioware or EA, whatever do change it over to F2P, then it will be the best F2P MMO ever created. And I say that, because it's Star Wars, and it's a universe that millions of fans around the world know of. Last time I checked, there are no comics, books, movies, or any other forms of the Guild Wars universe.

 

Since World of Warcraft, the strongest MMOs will always be the ones based off some existing popular universe.

 

1) the first GW cannot even be compared to GW2. SWTOR has more in common with GW then 2 does.

 

2) there's been well selling novels on the Guild Wars universe, but also. (im not hating on SWTOR as i enjoy it a lot) having it as the star wars universe of course helps with the number of people playing, but you can't JUST have that it's star wars as the only positive thing.

[PibbyPib]

Is GW2 staying F2P, like no subfee? I'm pretty sure that if they charged a sub for GW2 it wouldn't be as popular. My wife played very little of GW 1 for breaks off of WoW. I tried it out and I told her thank god there is no sub for this game.

 

This is my strongest opinion though: If SWTOR does go bad after the free month where a massive amount of people stop their subs, and Bioware or EA, whatever do change it over to F2P, then it will be the best F2P MMO ever created. And I say that, because it's Star Wars, and it's a universe that millions of fans around the world know of. Last time I checked, there are no comics, books, movies, or any other forms of the Guild Wars universe.

 

Since World of Warcraft, the strongest MMOs will always be the ones based off some existing popular universe.

 

I'm not sure if GW2 is free to play or not-- I assume it is. I mean, they wouldn't want to alienate fans of GW1.

 

My impression was exactly the same as yours. I played for a bit and said, 'well, I guess that would be cool if you were an unemployed 14 year old'. If they *could* charge a monthly fee, they would. It goes without saying.

 

I agree on the properties as well-- the really massive games are going to have to be built on existing properties, but even then, they can be done in such a wonky way that they never get out of niche territory (Star Trek Online, for instance).

 

The one concern I have with SWTOR is that, more than any other recent MMORPG, it's going to *have* to do well in order to continue. Something like Age of Conan can run on fumes forever. They can keep it up and even expand on it with a relatively small budget. But SWTOR is going to be an expensive game to expand on, I should think.

[chiselyou]

This a long post written to give an unbiased, educated and possible theory on small changes SWTOR can implement over 3 months to compete with GW2’s impending release.

I am, by no means, a person complaining about this game. The improvements to story and social aspects of the game really have made me a fan of the MMO genre once again (as opposed to just having something to do with my family, we actually have fun with the game.)

 

This is a big thing for me to say, considering I was never going to buy SWTOR until December 5th, when my brother convinced me. I just didn’t read enough that would make it sound more innovative than Guild Wars 2 .

 

However, it is not enough to stop me from wanting to play Guild Wars 2 because the major gripes are still there with MMOs (linear leveling zones, 1 and done quests, lack of spontaneity) star wars has 6 months at least, to implement game play options (not rehash the entire game, that’s impossible) that will make it able to compete with guild wars in terms of MMO innovation.

 

There are four aspects that I see as clear advantages guild wars has over star wars. Below is a list of these advantages and realistic ways SWTOR could close the gap without too much “effort”. As a programmer, I tried to think of suggestions that do not require major game overhaul. That can easily be included as additional content or patch somewhere in a 6 month period. So yeah, I would love the elimination of the xp system, it’s not going to happen.

 

Guild Wars has eliminated the holy trinity system

• SWTOR can not do this without rehauling their game. However, they can take the rift approach. SWTOR could allow multiple builds of characters. Another solution, is to allow players alts to become members of their crew, allowing players to easily change out characters using a quick logout-login process. Sure, DHT is still needed, but at least now players can more easily swap out builds for others.
   
  
• SWTOR could also implement new ability trees that blend and meld the trinity. Class options in SWTOR are limited.
  

 

Guild Wars will not have traditional quests, instead quests will be stumbled upon in the open world and spawn dynamic content based on variables.

• This is a hard one for SWTOR to overcome, but not out of the realm of possible. SWTOR could use this time to develop a third or fourth faction in their mythos with one of them being non-playable. This extra faction could be “random invasions” that happen in areas on the planet, in zones and be varied very akin to Rift’s rifts. These variable encounters could be zone specific and allow for additional quest threads. This would be a great 6 month mark introduction and encourage people to replay earlier zones. The threat level could be triggered by an equation that calculates number of people in the zone. And it could come with penalities. Perhaps increasing the difficulty of zone monsters if it is failed or providing a boost to rewards if successful. These will last until the next invasion is triggered. (possibly by a number of reoccurring quests being performed). In order to counteract Guild Wars (no need for exclamation mark quest guy) these quests can be automatically provided to players ni the area with everyone receiving the same rewards or penalties.
  
• SWTOR could use the method they use to autoinstance content for classes and change the formula to autoinstance content based on level. Thus parties of a certain level on newer planets may get a completely different story. This would greatly encourage SWTOR’s effort to get people to create alts.
  
• Give players the option (via preferences-interface) to cut off quest objectives (such as collect 5 of this, or kill 3 of this). This feels like it would just be instituting a button that hides some content.
  

 

Guild Wars will have autogrouping

• If Rift can do this, SWTOR should be able to. The #1 complaint now is people saying that they are not able to easily quest. Sure, I know this argument is lame. But most people are afraid to click on someone and rlight click invite for fear of rejection. Which is why Rift rocks. When you go into a zone, you have an option to join the public party and do the rift quests others are doing. This would be nice even now for heroic quests.

Guild Wars will have multiple storylines per dungeon

• SWTOR should be able to truly flourish with this one, using true/false conditions, SWTOR could introduce new content in flashpoints based on decisions. For instance, when playing essex, I really wanted to kill the supposed traitor diplomat, what would have happened if I had that option. Currently, too many dialogue options mean nothing in the long run (but light and dark points). SWTOR already has a few quests that do this, open up quest chains with alternative endings. This sounds like the easiet thing to do in SWTOR.
  

 

My hope is that bioware will clearly see that it is at a disadvantage with Guild Wars 2, and, just as it did to Rift/Wow, so will Guild Wars 2 do to them if they don’t have a few awesome patches before GW2 is released. So curious as to what others think.

 

::edited:: let me repeat that. In no ways am I saying that GW 2 is better than SWTOR or vice versa. I am saying that GW 2 has several major innovations that fans of the MMO genre has been asking for for years such as what is describe below. ::

 

bro, in your dreams.

[SeraphymX]

I agree with the OP on the idea that SW will have to do some innovating thinking to keep the long term masses. I am presently level 40 on my Operative and im thoroughly enjoying the game and story line (outside of always feeling like everyone keeps ordering me around).

The concern I have is the long term durability. After completing the storyline atleast once through ( looks like it'll take me a full month) ; I may decide to play a Republic story through,but then what?

Being the SW franchise alone will rake this game a lot of success, but in my opinion there are a few key elements to make it stand the test of time.

 

1. World/Galactic events (similar to that which the OP posted)

- For republic - a server wide announcement goes off that a sith invasion fleet is attacking a rebel fleet. All rebel players go board a republic warship and travel to the location and fight in a 100 players vs invasion fleet.

2. Free flying space battles. A warzone in space and each player controls a fighter.

- Outside of Jedi's, to me atleast great space battles is also a main stay for the star wars universe

3. Capital ships with free flight. Allow guilds to purchase and upgrade capital ships and you can hyper jump to it and with it. Allow guild quests in which only your guild may participate in with access from your guilds capital ship.

4.Limited Events. Have a calendar with special events that take place throughout the week.

- The key to keeping players is making them want to come back over and over to your product. Example: Starting a Monday and lasting 24 hours,the planet Naboo has been opened. The planet at first is only accessible as a warzone. At the end of 24 hours,whichever side has won the most Naboo warzones takes control of the planet until the next naboo event(which could be weeks away) occurs til the war returns and it is contested. Until it is contested,whichever side won can quest on it and utilize it.

Now combine that with certain days and times you get special bonuses on missions to find fat lootz. And the events keep on going..

- By having a listed calendar of events, you will make people want to daily log in even in end game to continually get to participate .

5. Indepth guild options and perks. Besides the capital ship guild home, allow guilds to compete vs other guilds in some fashion. Help build rivalries. SW presently is a half breed MMO. Which is fine as long as you have enough 'living' content and by 'living', I mean content that makes every day different. It makes every day that horizon.

 

Oh and one last thing. Star Wars is a space Opera, not Sci-Fi.

 

Sci-Fi is future designed around science/technology themes.

 

Space Opera is future with an Epic good vs evil, Law vs chaos, mystical.

 

Star Wars has had a great beginning. I am rooting for it. I think we all are. If BioWare brings EPIC to the game. It'll have earn my long term support.

 

Flame On

[Thiussat]

I guess I"m not looking for a GW2 vs. star wars posting.

 

Look at Rift, many folk said the same thing in comparison to SWTOR, and now so many servers are ghost towns. I feel that Trion had ample time to attempt to compete, but just didn't implement the kind of story things needed to make Rift as strong as it needed to be as a competitor to SWTOR.

 

I played Rift for most of its life merely to fill the gap until SWTOR came out. Basically, the only thing nice about Rift was the fact you could have 5 specs that were easily switchable at any time. And the fact that you had 9 souls for each class, which made finding new specs fun. Of course, having that many soul combinations also made balancing the game a monster. There was, and still is, massive QQ over all the FoTM classes and builds. First it was warriors two-shotting everyone for months. Then rogues got overbuffed in 1.5. And most recently, in 1.6, mages are god mode doing crits for 7k.

 

Rift's PvE was horrendous, imo. Leveling up was so boring -- the story was asinine and made no sense. No voice overs, no cut scenes. Nothing to hold your interest in leveling. Dungeons were a bore too. After you've done them 3 or 4 times, you never want to see them again. Invasions were cool at first, but then you realize that the loot sucks and there's no point in doing them. (The only reason I ever went to invasions was to gank guardians with my rogue). The zones were too small as well. One planet in SWTOR is almost the size of the entire Rift map.

 

The only reason I hung around as long as I did was because the PvP was fun, even if it was unbalanced as hell. I loved Codex and Port Scion and upsetting the guardian carebears by killing 4 or 5 of them solo while they were out doing rifts. That was always fulfilling.

 

Other than the soul system and the nice UI features, Rift doesn't have much going for it.

[Bubba_Jett]

Lets see what GW2 Devs said:

 

 

Then lets compare it to Bioware

[Antissa]

In order for SWTOR to beat GW2, Bioware doesnt have to do a damn thing.

[Wrevan]

Either way, WoW is done, and it couldn't have been sooner.

 

From now on, any game that has the same hamster-wheel XP grind drudgery like WoW and every other MMO in place of a proper and meaningful story is not going to be better than SWTOR.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Wrevan

[Fiontar]

Many MMOs will be tempted to borrow from GW2's innovations, but they will do so in half measures and probably make a complete mess of it. The main reason we haven't seen GW2 launch yet is that they continue to tweak all elements of the game to make sure they support each other in a synergistic manner and make for an over all fun and positive experience.

 

Whether it was influenced by long stated GW2 design discussions via Arenanet, or a coincidence, Bioware chose to use player scaling for Warfornt PvP. However, by using it in such a format, with out breaking people into level brackets, they just ended up with a bastardized system that doesn't do a whole lot to make PvP enjoyable for people at the low end of the curve or challenging for those at the higher end. I think it's out first example of what happens when other developers borrow something from GW2 out of context.

 

Most people who have voiced a negative view of GW2 have also exhibited that their opinions often are not based on a factual understanding of the game. Success at making it all work is not guaranteed, but if they pull it off, which looks likely, it will be one of the most innovative MMOs in over half a decade.

 

GW2 is already having an impact on other MMOs, even with release months away, as some lazy MMO design decisions that people might have tolerated as just more of the status quo, now start to look pretty horrible versus the alternatives Arenanet are offering up for GW2.

 

It's almost a shame it's named Guild Wars 2, since being perceived as a sequel obviously brings mixed baggage and does not communicate the style or scope of the game for those who don't dig any further.

[LordJestR]

Meh the question should be can GW2 even beat a 7 year old game?

[Dianoia]

I can't imagine someone thinking GW2 is amazing and innovative after playing it. It's really not that great.

[MrTijger]

So, what store can I buy this awesome game in that people speak of with such authority?

[cakeyeah]

I can't imagine someone thinking GW2 is amazing and innovative after playing it. It's really not that great.

 

But yet you're willing to carry on playing this game of rehashed ideas and poorly implemented features?

 

I have played it and every part of it I experienced was far better than any MMO I have played before (and I've played a hell of a lot since UO many years ago). Compared to GW2, SW:TOR is simplistic, joyless, static and just plain bad. Actually compared to pretty much anything SW:TOR is all of those things but, when compared to GW2, SW:TOR is just a game for fanboys with nothing better to do than watch trite storylines and defend BW wherever possible even though they have released a poor effort.

 

I should imagine subscriptions will plummet on January the 19th, and fall steadily until March/April when they will plummet once again.

[Daxramas]

Lol at the majority of people who just rant about a game failing. I suppose it's too hard to have a normal conversation on two different games without people having a cry. SWTOR is a good game, and from what ArenaNet have shown, so will GW2, hopefully. So stop whining saying it's gonna be a trashy F2P when you having made the slightest attempt at researching the game, GW2 is looking to be a high quality AAA title while proving that it doesn't need a sub. So learn to accept that new games come out and that SWTOR won't be the only good game out there.. Rant=over.

[PibbyPib]

But yet you're willing to carry on playing this game of rehashed ideas and poorly implemented features?

 

I have played it and every part of it I experienced was far better than any MMO I have played before (and I've played a hell of a lot since UO many years ago). Compared to GW2, SW:TOR is simplistic, joyless, static and just plain bad. Actually compared to pretty much anything SW:TOR is all of those things but, when compared to GW2, SW:TOR is just a game for fanboys with nothing better to do than watch trite storylines and defend BW wherever possible even though they have released a poor effort.

 

I should imagine subscriptions will plummet on January the 19th, and fall steadily until March/April when they will plummet once again.

 

Ah, the lifecycle begins anew. The miracle of life.

 

Here we see the Forum Troll in it's larval state, which is called the Fanboy. They exist in this form for months-- sometimes years-- hyperventilating about the Next Big Thing. Once the Next Big Thing hatches, nature puts on a real show, as the Fanboy pops out of his shell, emerging as the adult Forum Troll.

 

Disappointed and filled with rage, he flaps and screams for weeks until he catches the scent of The Next Big thing...

[Taurusaud]

Here's side by side video of TOR's epic boss combat, and Guild Wars 2's "epic" boss combat. I don't think TOR has anything to worry about.

http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Diea5isTQ9KA&start1=198&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVMTs74eWBJ4&start2=1825&authorName=

 

Oh. My. God.

 

I had NO idea GW2 was that bad...

Edited December 31, 2011 by Taurusaud

[amnie]

it's kinda funny that I don't care about the two games TOR gets compares with the most.

 

I never cared much about anything Warcraft, much less World of Warcraft..

I never cared about Guild Wars at all (saw my sister play, boooooring) and tried GW2 at the gamescom last year. yawn. gave it another chance this year. yawn²

 

(btw, I always knew Aion would be a fail, same as I played Rift in beta and thought it should go f2p right from the start.. even if it's doing 'ok' right now)

 

Bioware really shouldn't go all about beating other games, they should simply try and entertain the people who are interested in their game to begin with. I know more than enough people who try this game even though they've never played any MMOs before. heck, even my father is glancing at the game now though he's under the impression he's far too old to play online games (funny, he still plays Diablo 2... logic, you fail here)

[BraQ]

İf gw2 can make half of his promises, i would stick with it..

 

You can manage auction house by your phone, web and tablet.. on the other hand look swtors' gtn =)

[Sinvx]

GW2 isn't a threat to any MMO, because it does not have a subscription model. It's like saying Skyrim is a threat to SWTOR or WoW. People will simply play both, because 1 is a stand alone game, the other is a subscription model. So they don't have to feel forced to pick what game to sub too.

[Crash-X]

Also I bet these people said the same thing about SWTOR. How it would be the most uber of uber games etc. Then reality came crashing down and they realized its just a game. GW2 will be the same thing. They hype it up to be something better than what it is then buy it and complain.

 

This will happen. Trust me.

 

Games before they are released sound awesome all the time. When you buy them and play them after awhile you realize it i sjust a game. Rift and their 'Rifts' are a great example and WAR as well.

 

SWTOR as well. It's just a game and they are limited to what they can do. For people thinking dynamic means 'I will never repeat the same quest.' they are going to be disappointed when dynamic will really be 'Random' as in that dragon that attacks that castle will pop up randomly and do so every time. I am sure this is how it will be. So folks will wait around the castle to watch the dragon do his usual routine of attacking it.

 

We'll see, i'll likely be playing it any ways. I have nothing against it but I think people who think it is going to revolutionize the genre will be disappointed. Quite frankly I hope it does...but meh I think i'll be playing both.

 

Reading about GW2 it sounds like reading about Fable or Spore. It sounds incredibly ambitious and I bet things like dynamic quest are not going to work the way folks think it will.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Crash-X

[Bhudduh]

The only thing that has disappointed me so far with GW2:

 

 

Bye bye healing

 

I freakin LOVED my monk.

[amnie]

The only thing that has disappointed me so far with GW2:

 

 

Bye bye healing

 

I freakin LOVED my monk.

 

that's actually one of the main reasons why I would never touch that game. I .want. to have a specific job in an mmo. while I enjoy having a character 'develop' into a certain direction, I am far from a fan of things like dual-spec or 'allrounder' (and also why I hope TOR will never have dual-spec, but that's a different story)

Edited January 1, 2012 by amnie

[Jaku]

Although I'm excited about Guild Wars 2, when I find stuff like this:

 

 

Makes me wonder how overhyped their combat system might be.

[Senatsu]

If everything in the OP is being added to GW2, I wish them good luck in making it work without a myriad of bugs. Being a free game and all, fixing them will be a *****.

[Happo]

Holy crap, the misinformation on GW2 here is just baffling. PLEASE read some actual info before commenting.

 

 

Although I'm excited about Guild Wars 2, when I find stuff like this:

 

 

Makes me wonder how overhyped their combat system might be.

 

Wow, you found footage of a level 1 player who has propably never even played the game before. Congratulations.