Contumelious Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) The problem seems like people don’t understand slicing. The problem likely comes from the fact that slicers cut out the middle man as a gathering profession. When you look at the other professions they are likely just as profitable as slicing but with a much slower turnaround time. Where a slicer nets 10,000 credits from his profession, a scavenger will get (X) amount of mats. The economy is young and has not balanced out yet. Players don’t know what to post their items out for maximum gains and so what they see is Slicers not having to play the AH to get their credits and assuming its OP. In truth, had things of been left alone what would have happened in a few weeks would have been that the AH would have balanced out and other gathering professions would be making the same amount of money if not more as the slicers. The best example I can give is from my own experience… I have a Level 50 toon with 400 in Scavenging and Slicing (I’ve bounced between 3 other professions for my 3rd, so I’m not including it) I’ve had enough cash from my slicing to train all my skills when I level, to buy my speeder training, etc. My profit in an hour is about 30-40K with all 5 crew members doing slicer missions. In about the same amount of time, I can get about a stack Durasteel/Zal Alloy. (that’s 99 with them combined NOT 99 Durasteel and 99 Zal Alloy.) I don’t know what other server’s AHs are selling those items at, but I was selling 99 Durasteel for about 20-25K and Zal Alloy for about 15-20K. So while Slicer made more money on average, with the AH it wasn’t much of a loss. Of course now that no one is going to have that kind of cash to toss around, you’ll see those numbers drop sharply within the next 2 days… So even with a falsely inflated market(from people needlessly acquiring immense amounts of credits from slicing) slicing still yielded more credits than selling your mats in the AH? Yeah, that easily explains why the nerf shouldn't have happened. ..................... Edited December 28, 2011 by Contumelious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun-Runner Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 So is slicing a new credit sink? Not quite a credit sink. It takes four successful "rich" quality slicing missions to pay for one non-slicing mission. What benefit do slicers receive from their profession? ) We get augments. (That no one wants. They require [Exceptional] gear.) ) We get schematics. (Rarely. Maybe one in every sixty slicing missions.) ) We get one-use crew skill missions. (Rarely. Maybe one in every sixty slicing missions.) But don't worry. We've players hard at work to make sure that the other crew skills have any usefulness strangled out of them as well. Biochem appears to be next on the chopping block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughOne Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Look, slicing takes in game time... way more than the other crafting skills. The upper end of slicing takes 30-90 minutes per mission. The nerf that happened today makes it so there is no benefit to slicing at all. BW took the stance that they needed to cut it but now the cut it too much. I bet there will be a patch that fixes it soon. Other skills have their advantages and like slicing people chose them for some perceived benefit. Unlike slicing, you can put raw materials on AH (which do sell for high amounts), you can make gear for sale (which do sell but usually at lower the recommended rate) AND you can make your own upgrades. Slicing gets you money and sometimes some extra when you crit. If you take away the "makes you money" part then no one will ever take it. I will admit that it was broken pre-patch but I will also say it's broken post-patch as well. I won't be leveling the skill any more until it is fixed. If it isn't fixed I'll drop it for a skill I can actually get some use out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMcStud Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I do crafting too and i know what they need to craft. Simply put, you spent all your money on unnessccary stuff and blame it on the crafting system. For me too craft, it is actually the same as slicing. I need to do more if I want a blue item but if all i want is to replace an outdated blue with a temporary green item. crafting is just the same as slicing. Clicking on a mission and wait for mat, then click on crafting and you get a crafted item. It is a lot more involved if you are putting the money to make blue or purple gear but your gear is better than the slicer if you put in that much of time. Other wise, you don't need to spend much and don't even need to do much. No i dont spend moeny on unecessary stuff, there are some mats that HAVE to be bought because you cant gather them, and they add up fast. In my mid 20s i was spending 200 creds per item on that silk stuff, i crafted in batches of 15-30 and that was 3-6k down the drain, which is a fair bit a that level. Its also the fact that it is several hours of gathering and then another half hour or so of travelling and faffing about to craft the stuff to do all that crafting. Slicing is just clicking a button once every 30 mins. Given its ease, it should have been one of the least lucrative profession, but it was actually by far the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xhino Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 A) crafting and gathering is a heck of alot more time consuming than slicing, and B) even at mid level those mats are costing upwards of 2k a batch, i was only spending 10-50 creds per item (even that adds up) below level 20. It certainly wasnt free money, and slicing pretty much was just that. But what is it that you want then? Slicing was suppose to keep the money spinning and now no one will be buying your items, because no one has the money for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDemiurge Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Honestly, this annoys me for a few reasons: 1. I like the concept of slicing. getting a little extra cash without having to AH / grind is fun. I play for PVP primarily, and it's nice to have a profession that supports that. 2. The way the situation was handled was completely sloppy: a. It shouldn't have made it to live being too good. If BW paid even the tinniest bit of attention, they could have done the very basic math to see its credits / hour were higher than intended. b. Similarly, nerfing it to worse than uselessness without any testing process is sloppy, and reactionary. If you slice incorrectly now, it will outright bankrupt you with not even a handful of aluminum to show for it, and that is offensively terrible game design. Honestly, I'm going to see how this plays out, but if reactionary, poorly thought out nerfs is going to be the order of the day, I'm unsubbing after the first month. This is the single most ridiculous 1st patch I've seen in about the half dozen MMOs I've played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownedWarrior Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 nice start to the game bio ware to totally wreck 1 of the crew skills from the start makes me have lots of faith in you that does tell me what was the beta for again.... why didnt u do somethin with the GTN in this patch cuz that sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 So in addition to the NERFS they did to slicing during testing (at least two that I can remember since August) they caved into like three people crying on the forums and NERFED it again to the point where it's useless? And to make it even better they made this the FIRST thing they did. Literally the very first update to the game was a NERF. I wish I could be there in their little war room 90 days from now when they are brainstorming and trying to figure out why a game with KOTOR and Star Wars failed so miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajizan Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 This means crafting is officially dead. Raid or die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamaborat Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thats twice I've seen this point made in this thread and it USED to be true. no more, I went off and played for 90 minutes and did 12-14 of those very missions... guess what? net losses all round...with 60-70% acceptance on crew. YAY for not doing your research! That guy was definitely wrong about making around 25k an hour, but he's right about the 25-32 missions. Not once have I lost money by doing bountiful/rich yielding missions. I'm still making profit not to mention my scavenging and archaeology skill. Send my companions on a 10-11 minute mission, go look for arch/scav nodes, wait until bag is filled with credit cases, open them all (I profit on each case and I know I do and never fail because the mission is "grey" to me) and go put the materials I gathered in the GTN (which always sell for 2k-6k depending on the item. Scavenging materials sells more than arch materials on my server). Before the patch I was making insane amounts of credits, but now I still am making a good amount of credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contumelious Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) No i dont spend moeny on unecessary stuff, there are some mats that HAVE to be bought because you cant gather them, and they add up fast. In my mid 20s i was spending 200 creds per item on that silk stuff, i crafted in batches of 15-30 and that was 3-6k down the drain, which is a fair bit a that level. Its also the fact that it is several hours of gathering and then another half hour or so of travelling and faffing about to craft the stuff to do all that crafting. Slicing is just clicking a button once every 30 mins. Given its ease, it should have been one of the least lucrative profession, but it was actually by far the best. Good luck. Everyone started debating here, in good faith, and were eventually simply tired out. If you're not annoyed and frustrated about this circle jerk ing already, well, good on you^^ And happy holidays. Edited December 28, 2011 by Contumelious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEoj Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 But what is it that you want then? Slicing was suppose to keep the money spinning and now no one will be buying your items, because no one has the money for it. this i dont know *** im supposed to do, yesterday i was making tons of creds and spending it now im broke because i cant make those creds back. *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletZero Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 This means crafting is officially dead. Raid or die. Slicing is not crafting. And I am certain there will be a decent amount of demand for stims when I get finished with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benk Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 So explain how this change is both game changing and game breaking. I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEoj Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Slicing is not crafting. And I am certain there will be a decent amount of demand for stims when I get finished with it. lol /10char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMcStud Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 But what is it that you want then? Slicing was suppose to keep the money spinning and now no one will be buying your items, because no one has the money for it. No one was buying green hilts, crystals and enhancements anyway, which is how you level, not with purple aand blue crafts, which takes longer again. In any case, even if people did want to buy they still could, because as all the people complaining are eagre to point out, you make most of your money questing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acheros Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Slicing is not crafting. And I am certain there will be a decent amount of demand for stims when I get finished with it. fine, it'll be exactly like WoW, the only profs that make decent money are either to help raiding(stims and med pacs) or through raiding (high end crafting), and can anyone even craft things like armoring to fit gear slots? I'm not sure? Either way, this game will be exactly like WoW at this rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 ...and I LOVE how this thread is completely buried in the forums for NOBODY to see. Mention the NERF anywhere else and it gets closed immediately. ...and thanks a lot for addressing the issue BW with your community. You completely overreacted. NERFED part of your game to uselessness... and didn't even address it with your paying customers. FAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoDThundarian Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Slicing nerf is ok. My guildies rolling around with 1 mil + credits aren't very happy about it, but you can still make a profit off it, just much much slower, and I'm not losing credits on more than say 10% of my missions (you could probably make that 0% if you aren't testing to see which missions bring the most credits) The missions / schematics you get still sell well, and if you max compaion affection the crits / efficiency still isn't that bad. Overall it is still one of the better professions, and most people will want to level with it to make money and then drop it for another mission profession when they hit max level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazro Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) So even with a falsely inflated market(from people needlessly acquiring immense amounts of credits from slicing) slicing still yielded more credits than selling your mats in the AH? Yeah, that easily explains why the nerf shouldn't have happened. ..................... It not falsely inflated, people are expecting things on the AH to be finely tuned like WoW or Rift but the truth is that the game is a week old today. 2 Weeks for the early access people, but lets stick with launch date, because that's when everyone had access to it. Most people are not 50 or have not capped their professions, you can't expect a balanced AH 1 week into a game, its not possible. Things would have balanced out in the end, its called the Invisible hand, look it up. Edited December 28, 2011 by Kazro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraunKrynn Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 One change to the game and people freak out. It's not like it can't ever be changed again. Sure smells like Azeroth in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashaan Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 These are serious questions, you may find them off-topic, irrelevant, and not answer. I will not engage into this debate further regardless of your answers, as we are getting no-where. These question are merely to establish an idea of who I'm talking with. Have you played other MMOs at a high level? If so, which ones and PvE or PvP? What level, what class and what crew skill does your main have in SW:TOR? Have a continued good evening. LOL So you create a straw-man to avoid admitting that you're wrong? FFXI, 5 max level classes. EQ, 4 max level characters. WoW, 2 max level characters. DCUO, 3 max level characters. DAoC, 2 max level characters. Aion, 2 max level characters. Rift, 1 max level character. In all of them (besides DCUO, since crafting doesn't exist), I have at least 1 max profession, and in my more played ones I have 3 or more. Pro tip: If you can't argue against a statement (because that statement is true), don't create straw-men by attempting to discredit your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arconon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) They should just have introduced some caps: 1) No more than 1 slicer per server! 2) No more than 5 lockbox missions each day! Problem solved! Edited December 28, 2011 by Arconon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acheros Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 One change to the game and people freak out. It's not like it can't ever be changed again. Sure smells like Azeroth in here. things get changed -because- people freak out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkteruss Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Slicing is not crafting. And I am certain there will be a decent amount of demand for stims when I get finished with it. Engineer says "Nope" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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