Damage Meters

[ckoneful]

I used to be against no combat log recount ect but I have changed my mind.

 

While i pretty much agree with having a good combat log to see what's going on with your group/raid, I now think the benefits of not having a combat log outweigh the good of having it.

 

No combat log and recount allows for much more freedom in class/spec selection. players can basically do the specs they think are fun and not be pigeon holed into respecing after every big patch to whatever the number crunchers show is top dmg.

 

Just look at the 4 DPS classes in WoW, 3 DPS talent trees, You don't let a frost mage or sub rogue in your raid, because of recount everyone knows the other specs are 5-10% better dmg, but that basically removes those specs from the PVE game.

 

I would never let a frost mage in a raid,because everyone knows the other specs are better, so everyone avoids frost mage DPS.

 

In reality 5-10% dmg difference shouldnt make or break your raid, but you still don't want a frost mage in your raid, you automatically think there is something wrong with the player for trying to be frost in PVE.

 

So to sum up: no recount and combat logs allows for much more freedom to choose the funnest playstyle.

 

There is a work around, you are just going to have to find smart players to group with who are competent and can play their class correctly. It will be more time consuming without recount, but it is still possible to find good players without it.

 

Frost yes, Subtlety... no.

 

http://simulationcraft.org/430/Raid_T13H.html

 

Misinformed player is misinformed. Subtlety is the HIGHEST rogue DPS spec when played right and you can be behind your target. Though, that is WoW but meh.

[Cias]

no point in arguing over this, some form of combat logs/meters are coming in the future.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=66910

[Sugerbabe]

no no no....

 

If you miss it so much, go back to the game you used it in.

 

There is NO need for any dam meters or mods !

 

Thanks you.

[Maellek]

no no no....

 

If you miss it so much, go back to the game you used it in.

 

There is NO need for any dam meters or mods !

 

Thanks you.

 

Just so you know, the only thing I really read was the title of the thread and the first sentence and I already say no. There is no need for a tool that tells you how much DPS you are doing seeing as topping the DPS charts is not important at all to any game.

 

Spoken like true casuals that will never enjoy bleeding edge content.

[Khoranth]

Frost yes, Subtlety... no.

 

http://simulationcraft.org/430/Raid_T13H.html

 

Misinformed player is misinformed. Subtlety is the HIGHEST rogue DPS spec when played right and you can be behind your target. Though, that is WoW but meh.

 

seriously? you are nitpicking me for that? I was using 2 random examples from old patches, i do not currently play WoW, i do not know current DPS of all the specs.

 

My point is still correct, if a spec performs even 2-3% better, the other specs are shunned. It is stupid, players should not have to respec every big patch to something they do not enjoy because of recount.

 

Even stat choices , like between haste mastery crit in WoW, aplayer cannot choose the stat they think is the funnest, you stack whatever stat does the most damage. even if it is a minor 1% difference in overall dmg, if you don't you get shunned and everyone thinks there is something wrong with you.

[sosolidshoe]

The game needs combat log, dps meter, and threat meter. Opponents of these are baddies afraid of having their lack of skills exposed.

 

Without dps meters it is extremely difficult to weed the good players from the mediocre and it also helps us get underpowered/overpowered classes fixed.

 

I love the fact that the players who need multiple tools to extract and simplify game metadata for them in order to function are the super-leet skilled ones, and the people who're managing to play, enjoy, and beat the content as-is with no external tools to help them, and who'd rather that environment not be ruined by sad little men waving their sad little e-peens all the time are the mediocre ones.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

[NoxiousAlby]

How goes those hard mode operations?

 

Funny you ask that, seen 1 guild post a live feed on their attempt but didnt watch it. Best to ask them if having damage meters would have made any difference. They seem to have run 8 man VE on normal without them so....................................maybe it's actually only the baddies that truly need them.

[Coinspinner]

I have yet to wipe on any Instance & I have only played pugs. Of course, it's early on but...

 

so far, I see no reason for a meter.

 

Maybe I'm just lucky.

[NoxiousAlby]

I want one too The people who don't want one are most likely bads and the last thing bioware needs to do is cater to bads. That's what WoW is doing and they've been losing a lot of subscribers.

 

Actually you have it upside down, players started leaving Cata when Blizz started catering to "hardcore" players. In an attempt to stop the bleeding of subs everything has been dumbed down to keep the majority of their playerbase happy. Last thing BW needs to do is cater to "hardcore" & "elitists".

[crazycantab]

Why would people object to this? If you object you're clearly someone who intends to afk in group combat and not pull your weight.

[Kemosobe]

no point in arguing over this, some form of combat logs/meters are coming in the future.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=66910

 

Well, I just hope it takes them 4 years to implement it so I can play a fun game before it goes elitist.

[Atomickillerfox]

Good post OP. We really need a dps meter!

[Khoranth]

Actually you have it upside down, players started leaving Cata when Blizz started catering to "hardcore" players. In an attempt to stop the bleeding of subs everything has been dumbed down to keep the majority of their playerbase happy. Last thing BW needs to do is cater to "hardcore" & "elitists".

 

 

Actually players started leaving WoW during WOTLK when LFD was introduced, and easy mode raiding was introduced.

 

Then a small minority whined about cata heroics and raids so blizzard nerfed everything then started losing subs by the millions.

 

WoW losing subs all coincides with blizzard dumbing down the game.

[Nerdwing]

Funny you ask that, seen 1 guild post a live feed on their attempt but didnt watch it. Best to ask them if having damage meters would have made any difference. They seem to have run 8 man VE on normal without them so....................................maybe it's actually only the baddies that truly need them.

 

Why would "Baddies" need a Damage meter? If anything, it would help identify them better. They helped me in WoW, and improved me there as a player immensely.

 

You're in the Imperial Fleet. Some guy busts out "LF Heals HM Boarding party"

 

There are no requirements listed for heals/gear/etc because at the moment these are abstracted and undefined. So your group picks up some sperg who is in his pretty matching RP suit, and gear wise he looks ok. You go into the instance, and cant progress on the last boss. He has you all tearing out your hair.

 

Is this due to the Healer? Possibly so. Or maybe he's the one doing best of all. At the moment, without meters or a combat log, you simply cant tell which player is the weak link.

 

People arent trying to get a tool implemented solely so they can post numbers in chat and call you rude names. They're tools meant to improve efficiency on a group and individual level.

[Meharial]

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I have never and will never use damage or threat meters in my MMOs, however, I do use a parser from the combat logs. I like to think of myself as a good player, I can and will tweak my spec until it "feels" right and then watch players with more experience than me, ask them questions etc, to learn. I don't need meters.

 

But on the other hand I have had the dubious pleasure of doing a master mode dungeon (Rift) with dps that really didn't know what they were doing at all. I was getting frustrated (as the tank) with being blamed for wipes until I looked at the parser. In which dps that should be doing 1k in a suboptimal spec were doing 400 instead.

 

So yeah, I see both sides of it, but honestly, I would much rather just have a combat log that can be parsed and let people work it out on their own instead of just handing it out to everyone, ready to be abused.

[Pingor]

Id rather not see them in game...simply because itll breed elitism (its already happening and it wont happen 100% cause of meters but theyll add to it) and also because it will cause whine.

 

Right now I havent seen too much of "this class is OP nerf it now!" or "my class is UP buff us!" Theres probably some....but not a massive amount that the whole community knows about it. This means that most people feel somewhat equal...or there abouts.

 

However if they made it in..I wouldnt complain UNLESS they made the results postable into the chat log. People like that in WoW pissed me off and would often get kicked from groups I was running.

 

Its great to monitor your own dps...but I really dont care whos doing the most and then having them show off like its all theyve ever been good at.

[RachelAnne]

I love the fact that the players who need multiple tools to extract and simplify game metadata for them in order to function are the super-leet skilled ones, and the people who're managing to play, enjoy, and beat the content as-is with no external tools to help them, and who'd rather that environment not be ruined by sad little men waving their sad little e-peens all the time are the mediocre ones.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

 

Well said, the real bad players have always been those with tons of addons.

[Nerdwing]

Another example, in WoW one of the more recent fights was Ultraxion. A "Gear check" fight. This is a standard fight where if the DPS dont pass a certain DPS threshold on average, then mathematically the group simply wont have enough damage output to survive past an enrage timer and death is assured. In SWTOR, how could any target damage per second be established? No meters just stunts alot of improvement.

[Starone]

No no no!!!

[Kemosobe]

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I have never and will never use damage or threat meters in my MMOs, however, I do use a parser from the combat logs. I like to think of myself as a good player, I can and will tweak my spec until it "feels" right and then watch players with more experience than me, ask them questions etc, to learn. I don't need meters.

 

But on the other hand I have had the dubious pleasure of doing a master mode dungeon (Rift) with dps that really didn't know what they were doing at all. I was getting frustrated (as the tank) with being blamed for wipes until I looked at the parser. In which dps that should be doing 1k in a suboptimal spec were doing 400 instead.

 

So yeah, I see both sides of it, but honestly, I would much rather just have a combat log that can be parsed and let people work it out on their own instead of just handing it out to everyone, ready to be abused.

 

From what you have said, I agree with your last paragraph. I only have one question, what do you mean by parser? Probably a dumb question, just wondering.

[Giantshoe]

anyone opposed to damage meters is either not serious about endgame content, or is a poor player themselves and is afraid of being singled out for it. damage meters are a necessity, not a convenience.

[Cias]

Well said, the real bad players have always been those with tons of addons.

 

well said. because clearly, this thread is about "tons of addons" or you are just over exaggerating things when all we are asking for is a way to check combat logs.

 

but hey, you go right ahead and think what you want, good sir.

[Nerdwing]

anyone opposed to damage meters is either not serious about endgame content, or is a poor player themselves and is afraid of being singled out for it. damage meters are a necessity, not a convenience.

 

They just want to roleplay their characters Why dont you want to allow them to roleplay being bad???????

[DevonDs]

Actually you have it upside down, players started leaving Cata when Blizz started catering to "hardcore" players. In an attempt to stop the bleeding of subs everything has been dumbed down to keep the majority of their playerbase happy. Last thing BW needs to do is cater to "hardcore" & "elitists".

 

I agree, catering to those of us who actually enjoy a story driven mmo and aren't looking for a competitive sport is playing to their strengths and to the same folks they spent a lot of energy marketing to....they didn't advertise or brand this game as a hyper competitive mmo for the serious gamer who strives to be first to the top of the charts.

 

Arent there lots of moms for hardcore serious competition level gamers?...... As far as I know this is the only story driven emotion based mmo and I hope they always focus on that and let the hardcore gamers migrate to the games designed for them rather than messing with this game that works so well for so many.....if losing all the hardcores means the game folds that would bebtoo bad but in mymopinion it would be better than losing the current focus.

[Buur]

Funny you ask that, seen 1 guild post a live feed on their attempt but didnt watch it. Best to ask them if having damage meters would have made any difference. They seem to have run 8 man VE on normal without them so....................................maybe it's actually only the baddies that truly need them.

 

Why would I ask them? You are the one who said you are doing fine without them.