Damage Meters

[RealAeiouy]

My personal damage meter:

 

1) I hit stuff

2)

A) it dies

B) I die

 

If 2-A, damage good. If 2-B damage bad.

 

Done.

 

I agree with this general sentiment.

 

I am not against people having access to their OWN data, but sharing data or compiling data on others no go.. people should be able to block their data from being collected by others if they choose to do so.

 

How much damage someone else is specifically doing in a fight is not something a character in the actual world would ever be able to preciously calculate... So if they do add this kind of stuff, I would like the ability for people to block the sharing of their own data. Not because there is anything to hide but because such information is often mis-used by people more often than used properly to improve anything.

[ryancwn]

From what you have said, I agree with your last paragraph. I only have one question, what do you mean by parser? Probably a dumb question, just wondering.

 

A parser is a tools that read the data from one source to another source.

 

In this case, he is talking about a parser that read the combat log and putting it into readable form (by computer or human) and people can use these raw data to analyse, creating chart or parsing it into a damage meter.

[Buur]

I agree, catering to those of us who actually enjoy a story driven mmo and aren't looking for a competitive sport is playing to their strengths and to the same folks they spent a lot of energy marketing to....they didn't advertise or brand this game as a hyper competitive mmo for the serious gamer who strives to be first to the top of the charts.

 

Arent there lots of moms for hardcore serious competition level gamers?...... As far as I know this is the only story driven emotion based mmo and I hope they always focus on that and let the hardcore gamers migrate to the games designed for them rather than messing with this game that works so well for so many.....if losing all the hardcores means the game folds that would bebtoo bad but in mymopinion it would be better than losing the current focus.

 

It's an MMO. There is room for both types. You don't have to use a DPS meter or try hard core modes or do anything out of your comfort level. Others may want to. I don't think they are going to come to the forums and ask Bioware to take away the dialogue wheel and only leave one choice in all conversations because it doesn't cater to what they want.

[RealAeiouy]

The game needs combat log, dps meter, and threat meter. Opponents of these are baddies afraid of having their lack of skills exposed.

 

Without dps meters it is extremely difficult to weed the good players from the mediocre and it also helps us get underpowered/overpowered classes fixed.

 

Actually I would say that those who need that information to be successful are the baddies.

 

Like I said it can be used for good but too often is used for bad, which I suspect you know something about.

 

If they make it so people can opt out of publicly sharing their damage when they want then I am all for it.

 

I don't want to have to play policeman/peacemaker when someone who doesn't know what they are talking about starts attacking someone else for what their meter reading is.... Life is too short...

 

So if you read this BW, realize that allowing people to control if their logs are available to their group or raid should be up to them. There is no immersion reason why that information should be easily collected by everyone.

 

If you can not figure out who is good or bad without reading a meter, I would suggest you are the one in need of becoming better at these games.

Edited December 28, 2011 by RealAeiouy

[Meharial]

From what you have said, I agree with your last paragraph. I only have one question, what do you mean by parser? Probably a dumb question, just wondering.

 

It's not dumb at all. A parser is a third party program that operates outside of the game by "parsing" or seperating out in-game combat logs and doing the calculations separate from the game. This way there isn't a glaring bar or scrolling number log or something on your screen encouraging you to DPS MOAR or Player XXL33t will beat you! and would, in my opinion, create a buffer for those reflex "n00b!" responses.

 

But if you have a genuine concern, it's always there telling you the break down of what you need to know.

[Armythug]

Funny cos I didn't notice that there wasnt a combat log. I dont think it's needed. Kill the mob any way you can. Collect credits. Move on to the next bounty.

[Starone]

anyone opposed to damage meters is either not serious about endgame content, or is a poor player themselves and is afraid of being singled out for it. damage meters are a necessity, not a convenience.

 

I love this mindset.... If you do not like damage meters you suck. I did the damage meters thing in WoW. I played a Death Knight and a Druid in WoW. I was in the top 5 in damage with both....I know I suck. All damage meters do is make people want to be on the top of the list...I did more damage that all of you...you all suck. Am I right Giantshoe? It make the min max crowd that much more empowered to say you do X and only X. Your DPS was X so you suck. It ruined the game for me. I will never play WoW again because of this. Turns the fun of a game into work.

 

More power to the people that want this and I hope you do not get your way. Time will tell.

[Psythes]

Actually players started leaving WoW during WOTLK when LFD was introduced, and easy mode raiding was introduced.

 

Then a small minority whined about cata heroics and raids so blizzard nerfed everything then started losing subs by the millions.

 

WoW losing subs all coincides with blizzard dumbing down the game.

 

 

Oh.... Really?

 

Firstly easy mode raiding was introduced in the latest expansion CATA.

 

And you said it yourself when you said a small minority wined about the cata heroics and raids. Which is due to the commonly known FACT that the raiders in WoW make up the SMALLEST part of their Gamer base. And another fact, WoW didnt lose subscriptions by the millions.. they were losing 250k per quarter steadily with some spikes in numbers here and there.

 

Dumbing down the game? Want to be a little more specific? Also if the elistist hard core players make up the smallest part of most MMO player bases then reducing the difficulty on end game content should really not be a reason for the majority of Subs lost.

 

Please dont make up information in the hopes of delaying the release of game improving mechanics and features.

[Meharial]

I don't play WoW, but most of the people I've talked to refer to Wrath being the open door for dumbing down the game. A bit after BC was when WoW gained a stigma of being for kids and/or easy so...

[JonathanTheBlack]

Just say no to dps meters.

[kasanth]

If we can use it to judge ourselfs on how well we are doing and only we can see it, thats one thing.

But we all know that it will be used to judge others and keep people that dont do better then the ones using it out of content.

Since thats the case, no.

[NoxiousAlby]

Actually players started leaving WoW during WOTLK when LFD was introduced, and easy mode raiding was introduced.

 

Then a small minority whined about cata heroics and raids so blizzard nerfed everything then started losing subs by the millions.

 

WoW losing subs all coincides with blizzard dumbing down the game.

 

Wrong again, love the way people interpret charts and data just to support their arguements without looking at the facts.

 

The only time subs started falling in Wotlk was after players were forced to endure 9 months of the LK raid with no new content. People got bored and unsubbed while waiting for Cata, upon Cata's release subs were back until after the first month. Majority of the players didnt like the changes, if you were there then you will know all the changes I am refering to.

[Kemosobe]

It's not dumb at all. A parser is a third party program that operates outside of the game by "parsing" or seperating out in-game combat logs and doing the calculations separate from the game. This way there isn't a glaring bar or scrolling number log or something on your screen encouraging you to DPS MOAR or Player XXL33t will beat you! and would, in my opinion, create a buffer for those reflex "n00b!" responses.

 

But if you have a genuine concern, it's always there telling you the break down of what you need to know.

 

Then I feel like this would be the best option. The people who want to number crunch can, but you have to actually (somewhat) work for it, not just straight up be told what you are doing.

[aironeousb]

Maybe a personal damage meter but I do not like the ideal of getting policed by others to the point of them scrutinizing my every little detail. DPS meters I find causes snooty players to ignore the value of CC in wow. I liked knowing my own performance so I could strive to improve but I did not like people trying to tell me how to play my class.

[ageNtreachery]

I would rather they focused on content for everyone rather than digital viagra for a few.

[Kemosobe]

Just wanted to give everyone an idea I came up with for any of these "controversial" arguments. Posted it here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=825034#post825034

[Kalisperas]

Is this not true with most games though? If you’re not performing at a certain expected level of skill or competence, the game will turn on you, you will fail and the game will cease to be fun.

 

On the other side of the coin, if you perform at, or above the expected level of skill or competence, the game will reward you for your efforts and you will have a positive experience.

The problem is, players in WoW were expected to perform far above what was actually required of the instance. Playing a DPS character became more about doing everything possible to inflate the meters than about enjoying the game. Even if bosses were rolling over and dying with no problems, that one guy on the bottom of the meters got berated even if he was doing more damage than the instance was balanced for.

 

I hope to never, ever see damage meters in this game.

[Krabcakes]

But we all know that it will be used to judge others and keep people that dont do better then the ones using it out of content.

 

 

So good players should be forced to carry bad players?

 

 

 

Amazing argument you have there there.

[Trochy]

I agree, catering to those of us who actually enjoy a story driven mmo and aren't looking for a competitive sport is playing to their strengths and to the same folks they spent a lot of energy marketing to....they didn't advertise or brand this game as a hyper competitive mmo for the serious gamer who strives to be first to the top of the charts.

 

Arent there lots of moms for hardcore serious competition level gamers?...... As far as I know this is the only story driven emotion based mmo and I hope they always focus on that and let the hardcore gamers migrate to the games designed for them rather than messing with this game that works so well for so many.....if losing all the hardcores means the game folds that would bebtoo bad but in mymopinion it would be better than losing the current focus.

 

Actually, they did advertise competitive end game content. Not everyone wants to sit around and level 7 alts and watch the entire story for each one. If that's what you're doing, and you're not into endgame content, then dps meters shouldn't matter to you.

 

If you're not raiding, then you really shouldn't care about dps meters at all because whatever you do isn't going to be hindered by them. If you are raiding, and you don't care about them, then you're more likely to be a liability on the group then an asset.

[Buur]

The problem is, players in WoW were expected to perform far above what was actually required of the instance. Playing a DPS character became more about doing everything possible to inflate the meters than about enjoying the game. Even if bosses were rolling over and dying with no problems, that one guy on the bottom of the meters got berated even if he was doing more damage than the instance was balanced for.

 

I hope to never, ever see damage meters in this game.

 

There is an ignore feature in the game. Use it that one time in 100 that someone complains that you weren't doing more than enough damage.

[SlickDevlan]

Do those of you who are so adamantly against a damage meter not understand that you do not have to play with those darned "elitist" bastards?

 

What you people are whining about is similar to not wanting a map because it shows where you are...

[NoxiousAlby]

Why would people object to this? If you object you're clearly someone who intends to afk in group combat and not pull your weight.

 

Of course how profound of you.

 

It has nothing to do creating an elitist community segregating their interpretation of the player base into the acceptable & unacceptable. Naturally it wont be used to kick players from flashpoints & operations if 1 players believes someone is underperforming according to their stardards.

 

I seem to recall a post on wow's forums early in Cata when 1 player posted "If you cant achieve 3k DPS stay out of my Dungeons." And that wouldnt happen here....oh no

 

Silly me, here I was thinking it would be used as a tool to seperate the community just like achievements & gearscore. When all along it's people not wanting to pull their weight, oh silly silly me.....................................

[Bansheedragon]

The game needs combat log, dps meter, and threat meter. Opponents of these are baddies afraid of having their lack of skills exposed.

 

Without dps meters it is extremely difficult to weed the good players from the mediocre and it also helps us get underpowered/overpowered classes fixed.

 

In other words your self esteem are so low you NEEDto tell others how bad they are so you can feel good yourself.

You just want a hammer you can bash others over the head with when they dont do as much dps and whatnot as you DEMAND they do, just so you can hide your inability to learn and adapt to a situation.

 

Have you even tried playing any other game than wow?

I have, and of them had this stupid meter thing, yet nobody in these games seem to have any problem completing any of the content.

 

By adding these stupid meters all you do is divide the community based solely on arbitrary numbers and nothing else.

To say that a player is bad purely based on a completely arbitrary number is condescending towards that player.

 

You have no way to know if a player is good or bad purely based on these arbitrary numbers.

Its arrogant and stupid and the only bad player is in that case you by saying that others are bad just because they dont meet your completely arbitrary standards.

 

What good does high DPS do anyway when the encounter is based on skill, situational awareness and cooperation rather than a DPS race?

This game dont even have a combat log so a meter would not help anything.

The content of the game is designed to be done by paying attention to what is actually happening and adapting to a situation, not so you can sit and watch your favorite TV show while mashing the same 3 buttons over and over all the time.

 

I play thins game for fun and entertainment, not as another job where I constantly have to try and squeeze out every last point of dps I can of my char and then some.

I want to do things with others and have fun doing so, and if we cant beat a boss I want us to discuss the encounter and find out what we are doing wrong and change our tactics to adapt, rather than to just replace some random player for not having enough DPS.

 

TL;DR:

Simply put, YOU need a dps meter so you can hide behind some arbitrary numbers giving you the illusion of being good, when the truth is that you have no idea whatsoever how to play the game in any other way.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bansheedragon

[Minisys]

Maybe a personal damage meter but I do not like the ideal of getting policed by others to the point of them scrutinizing my every little detail. DPS meters I find causes snooty players to ignore the value of CC in wow. I liked knowing my own performance so I could strive to improve but I did not like people trying to tell me how to play my class.

 

I think you nailed it right on the head on that one. There will be players trying to police how you play your own char and tell you how well you done. Unless that person is willing to pay for my fee per month. I'll play the game and judge my own performance.

[Kenmuir]

No need for DPS meters at all. Spec your character the way you want to and enjoy the game. You dont need to worry about having the top dps in the game, group etc. Just enjoy a game the way its made. If you want to know how you fare dps wise, try different builds and see what kills faster. Enjoy the game by playing how you enjoy it. No need in making a job of it to keep the top build.

 

No need for aggro at all. Spec your character the way you want to play and enjoy the game. You don't need to worry about holding aggro as the tanking in a group. Just enjoy the game the way it's made. If you want to know how you fare tank wise, try different builds and see what holds aggro better. Enjoy the game by playing how you enjoy it. No need in making a job of it to keep the top build.

 

No need for damage for a healer to heal at all. Spec your character the way you want to play and enjoy the game. You don't need to worry about healing the group in a group. Just enjoy the game the way it's made. If you want to know how well you fare at healing a group, try different builds and see if you can keep the group alive better. Enjoy the game by playing how you enjoy it. No need in making a job of it to keep the top build.

 

Do you see the hypocracy? It's easy to see when a tank fails to do his job, the mobs are running around everywhere hitting the squishy characters. It's easy to see when a healer is failing, everyone in the group is dying from raid damage.

 

BUT we can't see how well a DPS class is doing because that information is his and his alone. His ability has no impact on the experience for others?

 

For all of you people against DPS meters, are you also against having the boss in an encounter have an aggro table? Should you just pick the target you want to have the boss beat on and click a button and that happens. What about healers? should there be no damage because the healers just want to play the way they enjoy and having to spec into certain talents ruins their fun?

 

Why are DPS classes exempt from Responsibility?