The Chance Cube - EAware's last chance to milk the playerbase?

[Warrgames]

Cool, thanks. I think I'll stick with White Knight - it's got a certain......je ne sais quoi.

 

Grammar police get a whistle though.

[branmakmuffin]

No matter what you post, positive or negative... there will be people who absolutely have to respond in the opposite direction. They can't help themselves. It's a compulsion. They are defenders of the game usually, but yet so bored with it I would be willing to bet they play the forums more than the actual game. Just expect it will happen

It could not possibly be because they genuinely disagree. No, it could only be the result of a compulsion.

 

[theUndead]

I don't think of it as milking but I hate the change being implemented.

 

I have no problem with it being it's own separate thing like the BSG Packs were but when it starts interfering with new packs and reduces designs on CM stuff while taking up a slot for a potential new item (in which I and people who may think like I, buy packs for) than it's an issue.

 

Again, It's not milking as you arn't being forced to buy it but it's still a terrible idea with how it's being introduced.

 

I agree with this. I do not call this milking and there is no one is being forced to buy anything, as what is is sold on the Cartel Market is optional. However, the redesign of the packs to these cubes was a bad move on Bioware's part. I feel the change is going to have negative consequences for the future if I am honest.

 

Now, I will disagree with one of the Op's contention's, that the game is trash, his message about the packs being a terrible choice is one I agree with.

[squirrelballz]

So you have right to post feedback, but no one has a right to disagree without being labeled an apologists?

 

Of course they have the right to disagree about being an apologist doesn't change the fact that they probably are if they defend everything EA/BW does even if it's wrong. It's not rocket science determining if someone is an apologist if everything they say is always defending EA/BW. Im glad they love the game because I also love the game but unlike alot of apologists I'm not oblivious to it's problems not everything is rainbows and unicorns, it's easy to look through rose colored glasses.

 

If you go back you will see I'm actually calling out people's stupidity in this game in regards to spending "I think EA/BW banks on people's stupidity and lack of self-control and ultimately if people stopped buying fluffy things they would stop putting those things on the cartel market." I never said anything about people being forced to do anything by BW/EA. I really think that their new chance cube is just lazy design and it would be better if grand chance cubes gave old packs and new packs give new packs. It's better to have new content in CM not recycle the same things.

 

So yeah do I think people like to be called apologists? No I don't, that doesn't change the fact they are if all they ever do is blindly follow whatever is handed to them like sheep.

 

I like to think those that just defend BW all the time probably feel like this:

 

Ignorance is Bliss

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by squirrelballz

[Ratajack]

Of course they have the right to disagree about being an apologist doesn't change the fact that they probably are if they defend everything EA/BW does even if it's wrong. It's not rocket science determining if someone is an apologist if everything they say is always defending EA/BW. Im glad they love the game because I also love the game but unlike alot of apologists I'm not oblivious to it's problems not everything is rainbows and unicorns, it's easy to look through rose colored glasses.

 

If you go back you will see I'm actually calling out people's stupidity in this game in regards to spending "I think EA/BW banks on people's stupidity and lack of self-control and ultimately if people stopped buying fluffy things they would stop putting those things on the cartel market." I never said anything about people being forced to do anything by BW/EA. I really think that their new chance cube is just lazy design and it would be better if grand chance cubes gave old packs and new packs give new packs. It's better to have new content in CM not recycle the same things.

 

So yeah do I think people like to be called apologists? No I don't, that doesn't change the fact they are if all they ever to is blindly follow whatever is handed to them like sheep.

 

I was not aware that disagreeing with squirrelballz automatically made one wrong.

 

I must have been mistaken in that I thought that squirrelballz had HIS OWN SUBJECTIVE OPINION, but that opinion might not necessarily be the opinion of everyone else. I must have been mistaken in that I thought that others might have their own opinions, any of which would be equally subjective.

 

Unless I am mistaken, some of the FACTS that surround the new pack structure are:

 

1) BW is changing their pack structure.

2) Some people do not like the changes being made.

3) No one is being forced to buy these new packs.

 

 

I'm guessing that whether or not the pack structure is changed again will likely depend highly on how well the new packs sell.

[casirabit]

Last I checked, I don't see them forcing me to buy a pack or anything. I don't recall them saying I had to do it. I rarely buy packs so how is this a problem.

 

You have a choice. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.

[squirrelballz]

I was not aware that disagreeing with squirrelballz automatically made one wrong.

 

I must have been mistaken in that I thought that squirrelballz had HIS OWN SUBJECTIVE OPINION, but that opinion might not necessarily be the opinion of everyone else. I must have been mistaken in that I thought that others might have their own opinions, any of which would be equally subjective.

 

Unless I am mistaken, some of the FACTS that surround the new pack structure are:

 

1) BW is changing their pack structure.

2) Some people do not like the changes being made.

3) No one is being forced to buy these new packs.

 

 

I'm guessing that whether or not the pack structure is changed again will likely depend highly on how well the new packs sell.

 

Man you really like pulling crap out of thin air don't you. MY OPINION IS SUBJECTIVE and I have never claimed that it was OBJECTIVE that is is your IMPLICATION of my OPINION. I also do not disagree about what you said are facts yes BW is changing pack structure, yes SOME people don't like the changes, and yes I agree no one is being forced to buy anything. Thank you for your ever enlightening clarity that we would all have been stupid without.

Edited February 4, 2016 by squirrelballz

[Ratajack]

Man you really like pulling crap out of thin air don't you. MY OPINION IS SUBJECTIVE and I have never claimed that it was OBJECTIVE that is is your IMPLICATION of my OPINION. I also do not disagree about what you said are facts yes BW is changing pack structure, yes SOME people don't like the changes, and yes I agree no one is being forced to buy anything. Thank you for your ever enlightening clarity that we would all have been stupid without.

 

Really? Pulling things out of thin air?

 

Allow me to quote you:

 

So you have right to post feedback, but no one has a right to disagree without being labeled an apologists?

 

 

 

Of course they have the right to disagree about being an apologist doesn't change the fact that they probably are if they defend everything EA/BW does even if it's wrong. It's not rocket science determining if someone is an apologist if everything they say is always defending EA/BW. Im glad they love the game because I also love the game but unlike alot of apologists I'm not oblivious to it's problems not everything is rainbows and unicorns, it's easy to look through rose colored glasses.

 

If you go back you will see I'm actually calling out people's stupidity in this game in regards to spending "I think EA/BW banks on people's stupidity and lack of self-control and ultimately if people stopped buying fluffy things they would stop putting those things on the cartel market." I never said anything about people being forced to do anything by BW/EA. I really think that their new chance cube is just lazy design and it would be better if grand chance cubes gave old packs and new packs give new packs. It's better to have new content in CM not recycle the same things.

 

So yeah do I think people like to be called apologists? No I don't, that doesn't change the fact they are if all they ever do is blindly follow whatever is handed to them like sheep.

 

 

Now, if you are saying that BW is wrong, please tell me how BW is OBJECTIVELY WRONG is it is only your SUBJECTIVE OPINION that the new pack structure is a change for the worse.

 

If you are saying that those who disagree with you are wrong, then please explain to me how it is that if your opinion is subjective, my opinion is subjective and Johnny's opinion is subjective what makes YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION right and Johnny's opinion wrong?

[TUXs]

Last I checked, I don't see them forcing me to buy a pack or anything. I don't recall them saying I had to do it. I rarely buy packs so how is this a problem.

 

You have a choice. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.

You don't buy packs, so this change doesn't impact you directly...it impacts those who DO buy packs though...and if they stop/cut their buying, it will in turn impact YOU.

 

If this game were to lose a large chunk of its revenue stream in the form of decreased pack sales, I think that could be called a "big deal"...

[TUXs]

Really? Pulling things out of thin air?

 

Now, if you are saying that BW is wrong, please tell me how BW is OBJECTIVELY WRONG is it is only your SUBJECTIVE OPINION that the new pack structure is a change for the worse.

 

If you are saying that those who disagree with you are wrong, then please explain to me how it is that if your opinion is subjective, my opinion is subjective and Johnny's opinion is subjective what makes YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION right and Johnny's opinion wrong?

You don't really care Rat...you're attacking him for no reason. Who cares why he has the opinion he does...agree with him or disagree, but you're just arguing above to argue...and you're entirely off topic.

[squirrelballz]

Really? Pulling things out of thin air?

 

Allow me to quote you:

 

Now, if you are saying that BW is wrong, please tell me how BW is OBJECTIVELY WRONG is it is only your SUBJECTIVE OPINION that the new pack structure is a change for the worse.

 

If you are saying that those who disagree with you are wrong, then please explain to me how it is that if your opinion is subjective, my opinion is subjective and Johnny's opinion is subjective what makes YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION right and Johnny's opinion wrong?

 

It is the first statement that you made, that is what I was saying that BW has been objectively wrong like the NIM LOOT change as an example. Objectively they would be wrong if the change made them lose money and subs. Objectively in order for this game to be funded BW must continue to make a profitable amount of money for the game to exist and develop new content.

[CrazyCT]

You don't buy packs, so this change doesn't impact you directly...it impacts those who DO buy packs though...and if they stop/cut their buying, it will in turn impact YOU.

 

If this game were to lose a large chunk of its revenue stream in the form of decreased pack sales, I think that could be called a "big deal"...

 

You think Bioware is going to lose a big chunk of their revenue because they made the packs better? By better I mean, instead of getting crappy bronze armour that nets about 5k credits, we get a chance cube that can hold some Silver or Gold armour from packs now discontinued. Yeah, that sounds like a plan that will make them less money.

 

OP wasn't denying this will make more money, he questioned at the cost to the game that they were doing this. I think the exact phrase was something like "indeed add revenue to the game but at what cost?".

 

Defending the OP, while still missing his entire point. Noice.

 

(Now, I could be wrong, but I believe it's your turn to call me White Knight for defending Bioware)

[squirrelballz]

You don't really care Rat...you're attacking him for no reason. Who cares why he has the opinion he does...agree with him or disagree, but you're just arguing above to argue...and you're entirely off topic.

 

Thanks TUX I never said anywhere that my opinion was objective I think they just want to bicker with me for the sake of it. In my opinion I just think that the packs should be different the new packs should have new items and the grand chance cube should give you old packs that is all I have said. I also never said that EA/BW is forcing anyone to buy said packs and that I think most of the CM is fluff, however like you I realize it brings in income and if people stop buying it hurts the development and income of the game.

Edited February 4, 2016 by squirrelballz

[Darklighter]

i'm starting to think you get notifications on your cellphone whenever someone says something negative about bioware.

 

I LOL'ed HARD in real life....because it's so damn true.

[MiguelGx]

Meanwhile we have lots of bugs, broken events, broken conquest, exploits that get unchecked by months... but hey! Let's put more trash in the CM!!

[lightSaberAddiCt]

You don't buy packs, so this change doesn't impact you directly...it impacts those who DO buy packs though...and if they stop/cut their buying, it will in turn impact YOU.

 

If this game were to lose a large chunk of its revenue stream in the form of decreased pack sales, I think that could be called a "big deal"...

 

Pretty sure BW understands simple economics. It will depend on if enough people don't buy the packs. If you don't like the change, don't buy the packs. If the effect is negative to them, they will change the structure so they can make money.

 

Other then that, going on the forum to label them as "milking" us is a little over the top. If you dont like the CM, dont spend money on it, simple as that. Either way, I don't see this as milking anyone, they were upfront about it, and the customer base will be the deciding factor, not someone ranting about it on the forums because they changed a toy he doesnt like.

[aerockyul]

You think Bioware is going to lose a big chunk of their revenue because they made the packs better? By better I mean, instead of getting crappy bronze armour that nets about 5k credits, we get a chance cube that can hold some Silver or Gold armour from packs now discontinued. Yeah, that sounds like a plan that will make them less money.

 

I read the original Bioware post as well and what you point out is what I got out of it (small chance my reading comprehension needs work, I've been tired lately). I would much rather buy a pack that had a higher chance to get ANYTHING but bronze drops, which I HATE getting in the packs that I spend my limited CC on.

Again, unless I misread (and by extension, you would have misread the same way I did), I don't see what the awful game-killing big fat ******* deal is

[aerockyul]

From the Bioware post:

 

This change allows us to place more emphasis on the Silver and Gold items in each pack, as we are no longer building new Bronze items. Now, in place of Bronze items you will receive a Grand Chance Cube. This Cube can contain the rarest of Cartel Market selections, giving you a second chance at highly-desired items.

 

Yeah, this is such a middle finger to all of us who LOVE getting those Bronze items when we spend our CC on packs

[gadenp]

I would not mind more silver or gold packs if not for the fact that .....

1. Legacy unlocks is fraking freaking expensive.

2. And the likelyhood that they will just shaft bronze quality items under silver and move some silver up.

 

I find it insulting that I need to play what 2~5 dollars more to unlock it for my whole account after paying what 20 bucks. Feels like exploitation to me. Will not be so bad if they pad the costs in the first place. But this current system feels like PAP aka Pay and Pay.

 

Fun fact, PAP is the acronym of the ruling party of my country. Guess what we call them.

Edited February 5, 2016 by gadenp

[aerockyul]

I would not mind more silver or gold packs if not for the fact that .....

1. Legacy unlocks is fraking freaking expensive.

2. And the likelyhood that they will just shaft bronze quality items under silver and move some silver up.

 

I find it insulting that I need to play what 2~5 dollars more to unlock it for my whole account after paying what 20 bucks. Feels like exploitation to me. While not be so bad if they pad the costs in the first place. But this system feels like PAP aka Pay and Pay.

 

Fun fact, PAP is the acronym of the ruling party of my country. Guess what we call them.

 

That's not a new thing. And if I really like the item, I'll gladly pay 5 dollars instead of 20 dollars all over again on a separate toon.

For example, I have Xoxaan's armor set in my collections. I paid the 2000CC for this when it came out on its own separate from whatever pack it was originally in. Now I don't have to pay the multi-million price tag the robe alone has on the GTN (it ranges from 5mil to 15mil in the period I've been looking for it the last two years). I do not have the time to make that many creds in game, and don't have the RL money to buy a ton of stuff on CM and sell it on the GTN to make that much money in a quick period. If I want it on other toons, I'll gladly pay 5 dollars instead of 20 all over again, and it's DEFINITELY worth it to me more than grinding endlessly for the millions it costs on the GTN, even at its "cheapest", and I will always have the full set available instead of having to buy the pieces on GTN, further inflating the price tag of the set. It also eliminates the hair-tearingly low drop chance associated with buying whatever pack that armor set was in again when it's available, which would cost too much CC to "guarantee" a drop.

Conversely, if I don't like an item, it can stay in collections, unlocked, for no further cost, ever.

Edited February 5, 2016 by aerockyul
clarification

[Rafaman]

You can only get milked if you do the milking. EA or BW doesn't show up at your house with a bucket in hand.

[DreadtechSavant]

Oh grow up. If you don't like, don't buy.

 

There is nothing, I will say that again NOTHING in cartel that you must have to play the game. It cosmetic only.

 

Any item from new packs you do want can be gotten of GTN as credits are easy to get and very quickly.

 

So what have you lost NOTHING. in-fact you are saving.

 

As I said grow up.

 

Kids these days.

Edited February 5, 2016 by DreadtechSavant

[GalacticKegger]

Well, from someone who has been here since this game was a sperm ... the Cartel Market was a saving grace. The CM resurrected the game and allowed players to customize their experience in a way that was not available before it dropped. Custom character outfit tabs were a perfect compliment.

 

Having said that, cash shops will always be considered "milkers" because they cater primarily to the player base that can afford them the most. That's just pure economics. The moment it becomes a game's focus, or is implemented as a P2W element and/or becomes a detriment to the game's playable content, is the moment we all find out what the game is made of ... and why they want us here.

Edited February 5, 2016 by GalacticKegger

[Celise]

If this isn't gouging the playerbase then I don't know what is. Who is actually for this? Who in their right mind thought this was actually a good idea in the dev meetings? And why did the rest of the board agree to this? The Cartel Market was a problem ever since its inception, but this takes thing to a whole 'nother level.

 

Ever since the announcement that F2P was coming, lots of people knew that the addition of a cash shop was going to add more problems to this game. As if going F2P in less than a year and the announcement itself weren't problems enough, we were going to get a cash shop that would indeed add more revenue to the game for a possible better future for SWTOR, but at what cost?

 

And look where the game is at now. The devs can't even maintain the CM all that much anymore. Is this gamble in a gamble EAware's last attempt to milk its customers to sustain this game throughout the next year before SWTOR either shuts down or the devs are able to come up with another astronomically bad idea to keep milking the playerbase for yet another year?

 

DOOOOOMMMMM!!!

 

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. swtor is a business like any game, you put some money into it and expect to make the money up and then profit from it, that money is then reinvested into the game to make even more. its about survival of the game, EA makes a great deal of money, they have been around a long time, so they know what they are doing even if it means the rest of us may not be able to understand the method behind the madness as it were.

[dscount]

Bioware is just trying to make some quick cash of the new players. Nothing more.

 

Make it SUPER confusing and just expect folks to fork over the cash.

 

Sadly - this is NOT a good sign they can't even RESKIN as many items anymore for the primary source of income.