Changes Coming to Packs with 4.1

[TUXs]

Well if thats the case I hope their metrics tells them that the latest pack was not a sales success.

This is all we can do if we are opposed to it. Unlike many things, this one is 100% in our hands...

[Osgorion]

Thing is, I do not believe this is a 'sudden' issue to most people. I think alot of people, myself included, have slowly been growing weary and fed up of being treated like cattle to be milked. This may just have been the final drop for alot of people.

 

Me and my girlfriend both play this game and have been loyal subs for ages. She feels we should quit subbing because this companies attitude has gone beyond acceptable just far too many times by now.

Sadly afaik, EA holds the rights for the time being on the Star Wars license (when it comes to it's game releases).

This reason and mainly the pleasant people I know in the community are what mainly keep me vested in this game, for now.

 

It is sad because I'd like to believe that there's still people in Bioware that are trying hard to make this thing work. And I am grateful for their efforts in bringing Star Wars virtually to life. However I can not trust nor respect a company as a whole when it operates in bad faith.

This company is no longer the Bioware I used to know which heartfelt wanted to bring the best of itself to it's fans. Instead it feels like it has become a Cash Machine which sole purpose is to find ways to generate maximum profit for the least possible effort. Continuously trying to get a feel of just 'how far they can go'.

 

When the KotFE expansion was announced I had Hope to see Change in that attitude towards their own fanbase. Sadly it seems more and more like they're trying to squeeze this lemon for all it's worth.

 

It could've been so simple; Making Cartel Market deals that Balance the interests of both parties involved. But this seems way beyond the capabilities of those who are suposed to be responsible for it.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Osgorion

[DreadtechSavant]

They will sell despite what you lot have said, the amount of posts that seem to jump to outlandish statements is nothing short of absurd.

 

Zero chance of getting new items (as someone said) is not accurate by any means, its just that there is a chance of not getting new items which will happen on the odd pack. Saying zero chance of getting new items is nothing short of hyperbole crap.

 

Old stuff, Sure if I get an antique gun, sure wont be happy cannot say I will be. On the other hand if I get a command chair, havoc outfit, I would be well happy. if buy a hypergate of 30 packs you should get a reasonable mix of new, and good and bad old stuff, remember what counts as good and bad is down to personable choice. Sure I might not like the antique guns but I have sold enough to show some players must like them. More to the point some posts said they don't sell well on GTN, They don't sell for huge bucks no, but still sell for as much as rep points did if you got them and already had the max (sold to venders) . So not really losing out. Rep points needed cartel certs as well to get anything which meant for the most part you had to buy a lot of packs to get anything, that's right HAD TO, these new packs take away the need to buy endless packs to get an items you want from rep venders. (more on certs later)

 

More to the point Scrap metal is far better value that the old mats from packs of yesteryear. Scrap metal can be used to get what you need and not mats for a craft you don't have. So much better than old packs.

 

XP boosts, they just are no longer needed so why put them in packs? Have you lost out here? No because you get the XP boost regardless with the new levelling system. So getting this free without the need to buy.

 

Credit boosts, I will miss these, which brings us to things that BW could look at again.

 

Certs, don't like them at all as I have loads I just don't use after I got just the 6 items I wanted and only 3 of them are needed per server. (jawa pedlers) So don't care for them at all. However as so many of you still want them BW could add the chance of getting them along with the credit boosts instead of the scrap metal. There are 3 different sorts of metal so if you add the certs and credit boosts then give any one a 1 in 5 chance of dropping. Seems reasonable to me. Though for me personally if certs were re-added I would like more items available from venders and rep points would have to go or BW need to find another way for players to get REP, maybe certs could buy Rep as well as goods.

 

Chance cubes to me is a fun inventive new way of getting items. Getting a old item you don't want is no different from getting a new item you don't want. After all antique guns was new items once too. Good items will sell on GTN regardless if its new or old. Crap new items will not sell for much either if it's something players don't want.

 

As long as BW make the chance of getting any items across the board fair these new packs offer an lot. Even more so for new players and collectors .

 

 

Many of you say I WONT BUY THEM, then don't just buy the few items you do want of the GTN you are not losing out. but cut out the melodrama, outlandish, misleading, and hyperbole crap that so many of you are posting in this thread. If you really want other players to listen to your arguments against these new packs then keep to the facts. It's not all of you, some have put reasonable posts here. I might disagree with them but they are reasonable statements, but when I read things like "ZERO CHANCE" it takes away any credibility against the new packs as it simply untrue.

[Transcendent]

You have a chance to get cartel market certificates from the slot machine, and yet I still see people asking for certificates to be reintroduced to packs... Looks like they still need another avenue to get them despite having a "chance".

 

That "chance" of CM certificates from the CSM has the odds of 1999:1, that's not what you call a decent drop rate, and I suspect that the chance to gain Silver / Gold items from the "Grand Chance Cube" will be along the lines of the mount drop rate from the Contraband Slot Machine (which is even less, something like 99999:1). There is no way I'd click the CSM that many times for the "chance" at just one certificate (plus the credit cost would be prohibitive)

 

That's a separate issue though, and one that BioWare have given the silent treatment to the community about. Essentially they're punishing players for their own mistake in releasing the CSM with the drop rates they originally gave it, and instead of finding a decent compromise on how to handle it, Nuke from orbit™ and then ignore the community was their way of handling it.

 

Hence the questions arising about adding back the Cartel Market Certificates back into the packs, because it's the only "viable" way to obtain them based on the anecdotal experience of players.

[GiftoftheMagi]

Dear Eric Musco

 

I am sure at this point you must have looked at the thread you started and shook your head at the firestorm it has unleashed. I do not know what kind of restraints you are under on your end of the screen, what corporate pressures are involved and what gag orders you have, but I'm going to point out a few things anyway....just know we do not blame YOU per say, just our reactions.

 

A.) You did not address the points that players were really bothering them in your last post. It did help clarify a few items but it did not do much to calm the reactions. We ASSUMED for the most part that pack prices would be the same. I have seen very few posts on any site concerned about the CC costs of the packs. Thus bringing this up rises eyebrows...and makes us wonder if you WERE considering raising the prices and might at some future date.

 

B.) People primarily buy new packs because of the new offerings in the pack. We love to see new stuff, even if sometimes a good portion of the new stuff isn't all that great by itself (i.e. a good portion of the Aliiance/Outlander armors). If Chance Cubes drop when a Bronze should, and you are not making new Bronze items, even adjusting the drop rate makes it a good chance you will not get any new items in a pack...which removes the reason to buy the pack in the first place.

 

C.) While there are older players that no longer need Repuation items and Cartel Certificates, a great deal of players do, want the items tied to them and have been asking for a long long time for their return. Why no bring them back INSTEAD of Companion GIfts? We don't need the old EXP boosters anymore due to all the boosts given in-game, and gifts are so easily available now that I have them stockpiling in my cargo bays. Pull those out and just give us the old Rep items and Certs. Let the players enjoy the bounty they offer.

 

D.) There are around 370 Armors, over 200 Mounts, at least 150 Pets, at least 300 Decorations, a couple dozen Titles, maybe even a hundred Crystals, over 200 Weapons, and I'm not even sure about Dyes. You are going to place ALL of these in a random roll of a Chance Cube? WHY??? THIS is why we are against Chance Cubes, even more than a random roll in a random box. The old BSG crate at least focused the roll on ONE area (Armors OR Weapons, etc), which allowed the player at least some choice toward what they thought they needed for their characters. We accepted the chance, because we wanted/needed something in that area, and would accept whatever came because it was in an area we were looking at. THIS...this is just bizarrely random. Worse, you claim this could very likely REPLACE new items in the pack. Some instead of a cool NEW Armor or Mount, we could end up with a chair and a Blue/Pink dye pack.

 

E.) Bronze items are good because they are easier to unlock for budget players. Cutting them off or making it harder to get Bronze items means you don't get their money. Increasing the drop rate of Silver and Gold is fine, but it won't increase the rate of unlocks enough to make that up.

 

We want to work with you folks, but this? This isn't going to increase sales nor increase player confidence of the CM. You'll still get the folks that buy packs simply to sell on the GTN, but you were always going to get them. Beyond that you could expect fewer and fewer people buying independently from the CM and using in-game credits to buy from the GTN instead.

 

My Suggestions are these:

Make a dedicated drop FOR the pack ALONE. It should ALWAYS drop something from the pack.

Replace Gifts and Boosts for Rep items and Cartel Certs.

FOCUS the Chance Cubes, or better yet, just put a Bronze-level BSG crate in there, with a random chance at a better one. ALLOW it to be tradable.

Have a Decoration drop in every pack. This will help balance out the fact that item drops have decreased, and players really do like new decorations

Always include a Scrap drop. That stuff is incredibly useful to us, thank you for that.

 

Plus, please re-consider and allow BSG crates to become full-time again. I LOVED those crate and was far more willing to drop $100-$400 USD every couple of weeks on them.

 

Thank you for your time. I do not expect a reply nor to be considered. But i urge you and your bosses to think HARD on this.

[Darklighter]

How you guys keep your jobs is beyond me....

[MrNoName]

Yup, think I'll pass..

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Ok, let me complete the rest of the statement... The armor that is undesireable because it has extra doodads on it that people don't want. Clear now?

 

Still not making sense ... a full set is still better than 1-2 pieces no matter how you try to justify it to the contrary.

 

 

Even the current bronze items appreciate in value. The Outlander Observer armor is current bronze gear. When I first started to pick up the boxes for the set, I could get all 3 boxes for a little over 10k. Now even the cheapest single box, the suplementary, is about 15k alone. It's already going up in price not down and the boxes are still in circulation.

 

Going up in price after a mass influx of BSG-Grand packs on the market ... wonder why that is. Could it be supply was redirected due to packs people wanted to invest in more than the strategy alliance pack?

 

Anyway my server ( harb) has it at 2k, upper is under 1k lol ... junk returns for my investment ... name me ONE full armour set that's ever going to sell this low intentionally ... i.e. where the common bottom price sits around this mark not just a one off sale.

 

 

Now lets look at the B-200 Cybernetic armor. It is an older pack item... it is even a silver item, not bronze. It's lowest box is going for 25k and that's the lower body box. At the current rate, the Outlander Observer supplementary boxes ,you know... those stray bracers and belts that flood the GTN and go for cheap usually, might catch up with those B-200 Cybernetic boxes before the next pack is even released.

 

Lower for 55, supplementary for 70 ... that's 35 times better return for a b-200 over a outlander observer supplementary ...

 

PLUS it's from an embargoed pack so the supply is dwindling meaning the price can and will start to SIGNIFICANTLY go up where as the outlander observer will not until at least the pack is embargoed and uspply starts to dry up.

 

Outlander Observer WILL NOT catch it in pricing before the next packs come out, you're talking nonsense.

 

Also it's not a true silver item - the contents are bronze but the box is mislabelled silver as it came from a pack that was embargoed BEFORE the changes to the colour ratings and it's not been fixed.

Whether or not it drops at a silver drop rate who knows ... they don't drop from anywhere anymore because only full armor sets will.

 

In the long run outlander observer may very well be worth more in 6 months or so because it's quite a nice set and once it's rare it may be more in demand than the b-200 but that why we love these new packs because they give more supply of embargoed items back to the market where as current method of packs does not.

 

Now you do get a whole armor set with the chance cube, but trust me, the three boxes of the Outlander Observer together will be and will stay more valuable than the single box B-200 Cybernetic armor. Even if you offer them side by side as single box sets, that current bronze is much more desirable than that older silver armor. Not to say that no one buys them, but trust me, you have to practically give a lot of those cybernetic armors away because people usually only one one or two pieces out of the set.

 

Trust you when you're talking nonsense? No thanks ... you are demonstrating a fundamental lack of knowledge of the market ... I have extensive experience on my side ( it's more or less the only reason I pay to play the game these days ) so I'll trust myself over your opinions any day.

 

Now you want to compare 3 pieces that require 3 drops to something that drops all pieces in 1 drop ... seriously ... wth are you talking about?

Ignoring the above nonsense ... currently on Harb it costs 250K for the b-200 set in 3 pieces, there isn't a full set of either due to a lack of supply ( which the new packs will help fix ). How much is outlander observer? Oh ait I can buy the full set for under 5K! 50 times cheaper!

 

Now sure as I said in 6 months outlander might be worth more but by that point it's embargoed and it wouldn't help you in the slightest making a return on any current packs you buy because it's not dropping from current packs.

 

When comparing relative values of a pack you need to take it's relative value ( i.e. the contents that can drop ) when you buy it unless you enjoy buying them and sitting on them for months but then you might as well be buying packs that automatically drop old items sort of like the new packs will drop ... sheesh logic is not hard.

 

You can't sit there and say "well this item is worth nothing now but in months it will be worth heaps because it will be rare" because that basically supports the argument of old items are better because they are worth more due to rarity which means replacing new bronze items with a pack that drops random items from any pack MUST be better by your own definition.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So... I buy a pack for the new items and there is a fair possibility I get absolutely no new items...

It's even worse than I thought.

 

Why not simply leave the Grand Packs and the Cartel Packs as they were instead ?

 

• The new packs will be the same price.
  
• There will be less new items as there will be no more bronze items.
  
• There is a chance that the new packs drops no new items at all.
  

 

So you are working less, keep the price of the packs yet lower their value and yet claim to listen to our feedback ?

 

Grand Packs were interesting because they were categorized and a way to bring back old items to the GTN.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought people bought Packs for 2 reasons :

• Get items they want.
  
• Sell items/packs on the GTN to make money.
  

 

The reason I choose to open a pack rather than directly selling it to the GTN is because ideally, I think I have a fair chance to get an item I want instead of some crap. Shifting to armor crates rather than single pieces was a step in the right direction.

However, if my chances to get and interesting item decreases, I'd rather no take the risk to open the pack and I'll just sell it to the GTN and use the credits to buy the items directly. But in this case, the items prices will likely rise up.

Worse, I the pack percieved value drops, I'll have to sell the pack for a lower price.

 

How is that a good change ?

 

How do the odds of you getting an interesting item decrease? Let's be fair and assume you meant a new interesting item.

Well now you have a list of new items you can view ... it will be silver or gold ... you open the packs and instead of the worthless bronze items you didn't want ( because well they don't exist in the new packs what so ever so they aren't there for you to miss out on at all ) you now get a pack that can yield you greater profit than before for items you didn't want.

As to the items you might want ... well there are less items in a pack thus more chance to get the item and they drop rate they said increases for silver/gold in these packs ... so again how do you odds decrease of getting an item you want?

 

Now if there is no items you want from the pack then so be it, that's no different to before and you ideally wouldn't have bought it anyway so nothing changes in that regard.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This is all we can do if we are opposed to it. Unlike many things, this one is 100% in our hands...

 

Truer words never spoken from you heh.

 

Like it loathe it, buy it or don't.

 

As with most topics they majority of posts will always be negative ... when poeple are pleased with something they rarely feel the need to come to the forums to say so if they aren't already forum regulars so we tend to only ever see opinions geared towards the outraged.

 

Sales will dictate if it's a good idea or not.

I personally have a rather large fortune that goes to those that sell packs for credits and I've not touched this shipment at all since I hated the concept of only having 1 pack available at a time knowing everything in it wouldn't really give me a good return ( where as before with 4 pack types there was a large variety of items on the gtn from current packs thus rare items still fetched a nice price ).

Now though I can offset that with this cube ( if it drops reasonably well like a bronze item should ) and get all sorts of random goodies rare or not ... it's much better than it was.

 

Thus those buying packs to turn real money to credits are happy because they have us with the 100's of millions / billions of credits buying their packs so they will continue to buy more.

It's those I feel CM changes are truly targeted at more - those that need 100 million credits for some reason so they buy up 20+ crates than someone who might buy 4 crates ( by no means a cheap investment either, I'm not belittling it ) trying to get all new items.

[XiamaraSimi]

I buy 3 new packs, now the original way, i would get at lest 6 new pack items. New is good i have everything old i want already.

 

I open those 3 packs, get 2 "new items" and 4 chance cubes.

 

Already not happy.

 

Open chance cubes and get a ball toss, a banner, and 2 socorro weapons.

 

Yeah now im -really- unhappy.

 

This is the problem/scenario most of the unhappy people are seeing. We're buying packs to get new things, not old garbage we have 3 rows of already.

Edited January 29, 2016 by XiamaraSimi

[MeNaCe-NZ]

They don't sell for huge bucks no, but still sell for as much as rep points did if you got them and already had the max (sold to venders) .

 

Exactly and still sell for more than most bronze items out of the current packs. I can sell a bloody crappy socorro rifle now for more than you can get the entire outlander set the other poster was mentioning hence why I'm still at a loss as to what on earth they are actually trying to prove or say.

 

 

So not really losing out. Rep points needed cartel certs as well to get anything which meant for the most part you had to buy a lot of packs to get anything, that's right HAD TO, these new packs take away the need to buy endless packs to get an items you want from rep venders. (more on certs later)

 

This is why I don't get why they moved away from it, guessing they just couldn't be stuffed with the dev time spent on making the vendors, reputation system, reputation items etc. etc. but being that it gated items etc. behind a pay scheme seemed like a smart idea to me so no idea why they removed it.

 

 

More to the point Scrap metal is far better value that the old mats from packs of yesteryear. Scrap metal can be used to get what you need and not mats for a craft you don't have. So much better than old packs.

 

Been around for a long time now and in more packs than it wasn't so not something we can say is new to the recent changes.

 

XP boosts, they just are no longer needed so why put them in packs? Have you lost out here? No because you get the XP boost regardless with the new levelling system. So getting this free without the need to buy.

 

Agree though strangely I still sell the purple/gold ones I saved up for fortunes. I started trashing all the other ones because they weren't even worth my effort to try sell and annoyed me I had to even deal with them in my inventory whilst trying to open up numerous hypercrates.

 

Credit boosts, I will miss these, which brings us to things that BW could look at again.

 

I got these recently as I've only been buying up old crates and I'm sure they nerfed these ... not once have I got over 100K from the bigger boon or whatever it's called, more often under 50K even where as before it was almost always over 100K. Could be RNG but still ... seemed off.

 

 

Cdd the certs and credit boosts then give any one a 1 in 5 chance of dropping. Seems reasonable to me. Though for me personally if certs were re-added I would like more items available from venders and rep points would have to go or BW need to find another way for players to get REP, maybe certs could buy Rep as well as goods.

 

You can use them up on decorations that are sellable on the GTN ( the one from the stronghold area ) and they sell nicely ... I'm averaging about 500K a vert at the mo though I'm down to my last stack.

I wouldn't care either way if they brought them back and nothing changed, it stacked and always made minimum 100K per cert from mentioned vendor.

Maybe they could unbind the rep items so we can sell everything even though they have rep attached and bring back more slot machines with the different rep attached for each rep type ( same drop rates as current machine would be fine to me, alternative for people to get rep even though i've got legend on all cm rep vendors ).

 

Still annoys me how salty people got over the slot machine because it looked like they were going to do something like this but the outrage at not having their precious money tree anymore basically made BW think meh ... stuff it, no more easy rep for you people then.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I suspect that the chance to gain Silver / Gold items from the "Grand Chance Cube" will be along the lines of the mount drop rate from the Contraband Slot Machine (which is even less, something like 99999:1).

 

Well being that they said they are giving it better drop rates for SG items and I actually have experience with opening literally 100's of bronze/grand packs thus I have a decent feel for the drop rates ( more like 1 in 20-30 for gold and 1 in 5-10 ) I would suspect you're figures figures are pulled from your head with no experience on the BSG-Grand drop rates that so ever. 1 in 99999 ... lol. Scare mongering much.

 

 

 

That's a separate issue though, and one that BioWare have given the silent treatment to the community about. Essentially they're punishing players for their own mistake in releasing the CSM with the drop rates they originally gave it, and instead of finding a decent compromise on how to handle it, Nuke from orbit™ and then ignore the community was their way of handling it.

 

Here have cheap easy to get reputation that previously you could only get by spending real money or minimum 150K per rep trophy to get it from a pack.

The CSM is a great tool, people who lost their money tree just got salty it was removed even though they had stacks of certs and purp junk in their vaults they still threatened to quit and never spend another cent ... it was laughable nonsense.

The ONLY issue with the CSM was Eri'c utter failure to communicate about it properly yet he's still employed so it can't have cost that many subs ...

 

 

Hence the questions arising about adding back the Cartel Market Certificates back into the packs, because it's the only "viable" way to obtain them based on the anecdotal experience of players.

 

I don't think anyone would ever argue they shouldn't be added back but as always with this company communication on actual important questions is completely lacking. Much like the CSM issue ... communication is this companies worst trait.

[Damask_Rose]

I have a compromise idea that I haven't seen listed yet.

 

Have the chance cubes drop two items. One being the random b/s/g item, the other being a random rep item pulled from all cartel reps with a chance at a cartel certificate. This way people who don't have all the reputations maxed can slowly finish them, and those that have them finished can get a little something to sell. And certificates will be obtainable once more. Everyone wins?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

 

 

 

B.) People primarily buy new packs because of the new offerings in the pack. We love to see new stuff, even if sometimes a good portion of the new stuff isn't all that great by itself (i.e. a good portion of the Aliiance/Outlander armors). If Chance Cubes drop when a Bronze should, and you are not making new Bronze items, even adjusting the drop rate makes it a good chance you will not get any new items in a pack...which removes the reason to buy the pack in the first place.

 

Do they though or do you? You have NO idea how many people buy packs for the new items vs how many buy them to convert cash to credits.

These changes and how often they want to offer ways for people to get embargoed items whilst still keep them rare and valuable implies to me you are wrong. They have metics, we don't so we can only really go off the actions they take.

 

 

D.) There are around 370 Armors, over 200 Mounts, at least 150 Pets, at least 300 Decorations, a couple dozen Titles, maybe even a hundred Crystals, over 200 Weapons, and I'm not even sure about Dyes. You are going to place ALL of these in a random roll of a Chance Cube? WHY??? THIS is why we are against Chance Cubes, even more than a random roll in a random box. The old BSG crate at least focused the roll on ONE area (Armors OR Weapons, etc), which allowed the player at least some choice toward what they thought they needed for their characters. We accepted the chance, because we wanted/needed something in that area, and would accept whatever came because it was in an area we were looking at. THIS...this is just bizarrely random. Worse, you claim this could very likely REPLACE new items in the pack. Some instead of a cool NEW Armor or Mount, we could end up with a chair and a Blue/Pink dye pack.

 

You're getting these in place of a common trash bronze item that the majority of people vendor for dirt cheap because they don't want it. If you did want those dirt cheap bronze items then you'd be stupid to spend money on it when you can get it so cheap on the GTN.

They're also not taking away your chance to get a DECENT NEW item from the new packs they are in fact improving it.

What's the problem then?

 

Stop this "we" nonsense also, you aren't bloody Martin Luther King speaking on behalf of some down trodden, ignored majority.

 

E.) Bronze items are good because they are easier to unlock for budget players. Cutting them off or making it harder to get Bronze items means you don't get their money. Increasing the drop rate of Silver and Gold is fine, but it won't increase the rate of unlocks enough to make that up.

 

Pfft why even unlock them? They are that cheap you buy them with credits and store them for your alts. If you REALLY like it then sure unlock it but more often it's going to be the expensive items people will unlock as they don't have the credits to buy numerous sets so they use the CC and usually these will be Silver/Gold so nothing changes.

 

Now though you can get OLD RARE bronze sets .. that's right ENTIRE sets with the one drop. You can unlock that straight away without having to worry about the other 2 drops.

 

We want to work with you folks, but this? This isn't going to increase sales nor increase player confidence of the CM. You'll still get the folks that buy packs simply to sell on the GTN, but you were always going to get them. Beyond that you could expect fewer and fewer people buying independently from the CM and using in-game credits to buy from the GTN instead.

 

They may lose YOUR sales but they will gain mine. Who is right and who is wrong? Stay tuned forever because they'll never tell us those metrics.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I buy 3 new packs, now the original way, i would get at lest 6 new pack items. New is good i have everything old i want already.

 

I open those 3 packs, get 2 "new items" and 4 chance cubes.

 

Already not happy.

 

Open chance cubes and get a ball toss, a banner, and 2 socorro weapons.

 

Yeah now im -really- unhappy.

 

This is the problem/scenario most of the unhappy people are seeing. We're buying packs to get new things, not old garbage we have 3 rows of already.

 

Well speaking from experience you would have to be SUPER unlucky to get those drops especially when they are increasing the drop rates on SG items on the grand cubes over the bronze packs we got from BSG-Grand.

 

In fact I think you have less chance of that happening than getting 1 rancor to drop from the 4 packs.

[Reno_Tarshil]

You're getting these in place of a common trash bronze item that the majority of people vendor for dirt cheap because they don't want it. If you did want those dirt cheap bronze items then you'd be stupid to spend money on it when you can get it so cheap on the GTN.

 

Actually you cannot vendor cartel markets at all. So if someone gets an item they can't sell, their choice is to either let it sit collecting dust or destroy it.

 

So they wouldn't be making any credits because you get 0 credits from destroying an object.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Actually you cannot vendor cartel markets at all. So if someone gets an item they can't sell, their choice is to either let it sit collecting dust or destroy it.

 

So they wouldn't be making any credits because you get 0 credits from destroying an object.

 

Sorry meant sell ( GTN ) not vendor. By dirt cheap I mean the numerous items you see at well under 10K and often below 1K.

 

Even using the outlander observer example below where I personally think the head piece is cool and bound to be popular ( it's an eye patch after all ) is worth next to nothing due to how common it is under this current pack system. At a guess it would be worth at least 10 times the what you can get it for now if we still had an option of what was it ... 4 or 6 packs at one time to choose from before 4.0?

[Xo-Lara]

Still not making sense ...

 

Ok, my mistake for bothering to try... Skipping the bulk of the wall of text because: Never argue with a person who has a vested interest in not understanding. They will waste your time because they have more reason to resist the notion than you have to state your case. It's not nonsense, you just can't afford to accept a different perspective which a personal problem. As I said before, the point will be proven one way or another once the pack is released in this form. I have no faith this work out any better than the Force Alliance Pack.

 

However, I would still prefer the chance cube not replace any of the drops. The Strategy Alliance just narrowly made it across the line as acceptable. It would not be a good idea to go back and undo that now.

 

I have a compromise idea that I haven't seen listed yet.

 

Have the chance cubes drop two items. One being the random b/s/g item, the other being a random rep item pulled from all cartel reps with a chance at a cartel certificate. This way people who don't have all the reputations maxed can slowly finish them, and those that have them finished can get a little something to sell. And certificates will be obtainable once more. Everyone wins?

 

If there is no way to get someone to agree to a potential of five drops from a pack, having the cube drop more than one item sounds better. Although, I would still only want to get no more than one cube per pack. I prefer a smaller result pool if I have to gamble and the new packs offering is definitely a smaller pool. But, for people who deal with decorations, the certificate is a good value. However, I can't imagine the company being generous enough to let us get at all reps. :/

Edited January 29, 2016 by Xo-Lara

[Malthol]

Where are my Cartel Market Certificates? See, I had plans for these, then you took them away. Then you introduced the Gold & Silver Packs. I thought "that sounds way better than the completely random chances in standard packs." Then you took them away.

 

Maybe it is just because I have to sometimes take weeks away from game due to life, but you keep changing systems on how we can acquire stuff so significantly that it is making it impossible to set goals. You are dis-incentivizing players here. It is troubling enough that so much of what is available is on a lottery system, rather than a straight purchase system, but once a system is in place, you need to keep that system in place if you want us to work it. When it does change, it needs to change in such a way that we don't lose progress on whatever goals we had within that system. Losing all our progress in the Vehicle Achievement quest was a really bad decision & bit of design, but at the same time compromising player work and goals in the economic system suggests a complete lack of customer care. To paying customers (whether paying with a sub or with CC), this feels like a lot of half-baked ideas being half-implemented.

[Soul_of_Flames]

This is stupid. The whole Bronze/Silver/Gold schemes were stupid from the beginning.

 

Why would they think it was a good idea to have a pack that contains everything?

1. The shear amount of items up for grabs is so large, that the probability of getting what you want is microscopic. Or did they not realize that the reason why people bought scores of packs/crates was because they were searching for a specific item? If the chances of you now getting the item you want is less than 1%, no one is going to waste their money on it.

2. Since the pool of new items added in each pack is dwarfed by the pool of items already on the CM, you are far more likely to receive old items that you didn't want.

3. The packs generally had a lower value than any other pack previously on the market... and yet they were bafflingly more expensive. Another reason why people won't buy multiple packs. More expensive and less chance of getting what they want.

 

Getting rid of bronze items doesn't solve a damn thing. We still have the stupid pool of old silver and gold items. And now they are invading the packs with the new items?

 

Oh yeah, "the prices of the packs aren't changing." But that didn't stop them from lowering their value. Even if the price is the same, they are worth less than they used to be.

 

I don't understand what exactly was wrong with the old method of doing packs? The embargo mechanic made it so that older items gained value as time went on. I thought it was a really clever way to add some excitement into the game's economy and trading.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Soul_of_Flames

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Skipping the bulk of the wall of text because: Never argue with a person who has a vested interest in not understanding. They will waste your time because they have more reason to resist the notion than you have to state your case. It's not nonsense, you just can't afford to accept a different perspective which a personal problem. As I said before, the point will be proven one way or another once the pack is released in this form. I have no faith this work out any better than the Force Alliance Pack.

 

Half the time I can't even begin to refute what you're saying because you're talking illogical nonsense. Half of what you say has no bearing on the point you're trying to make ( whatever it is ).

 

 

However, I would still prefer the chance cube not replace any of the drops. The Strategy Alliance just narrowly made it across the line as acceptable. It would not be a good idea to go back and undo that now.

 

Yes you personally would not prefer it, that however does not mean it's a good idea and one that will generate more income that they currently generate. If that means you stop buying your few packs then oh well so be it ... that's life and that's business.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't understand what exactly was wrong with the old method of doing packs? The embargo mechanic made it so that older items gained value as time went on. I thought it was a really clever way to add some excitement into the game's economy and trading.

 

Whilst i don't agree with anything else you put in your post for the various reasons I've already outlined in this thread and i do believe this change is positive from what we currently have I do agree with this part.

 

There was no reason to move away from the old system. It worked fine and I can't see this new system making any more money than before ... significantly less I would think. Only 1 pack available at a time with less items in it ... how is that possibly going to make more money?

The BSG system I imagined could have made them more money in the short term but in the long term probably not because sales would slow as slowly but surely everyone got some of everything and prices would drop on the GTN etc.

 

The old system with occasional old pack returns ( not bringing them back for a month or two as you were doing towards the end there, that was a slap in the face to people who sat on items for months or longer ) and the old grand packs was perfect.

 

What is more I doubt BW are even measuring their metrics correctly to see if sales are up or not ( subs are up thus amount of players in the game are up but is the cm sales to player ratio up? ). Infact that report from EA never mentioned anything to do with revenue being up for this game ... it just slyly stated subscribers were up for the quarter which could be somewhat damning as to how much actual money this is making. Yay we have more subs but we're making a ton less money because we screwed the CM.

 

What is even more funny is this "we listen to the community" nonsense they keep saying when they clearly aren't. I don't recall a single post asking for this change ... everyone had their issues and argued points on how/what actual CM items the packs should drop and how but the resounding unanimous outcry from people was they wanted their certs and reputation back and this hasn't even been addressed.

 

They're not listening to anyone, they're just doing what they want and making misguided decisions as usual because whoever comes up with half the ideas at Austin isn't overly bright.

 

Now in saying all that I do like this change, I imagine it will make them more money than they currently are making from the CM, I will buy some packs because they're better than what we have now and I hate the new packs as they are now HOWEVER it's FAR from the best change to the CM that they could make which would be to go back to the old system.

[Xo-Lara]

Half the time I can't even begin to refute what you're saying because you're talking illogical nonsense. Half of what you say has no bearing on the point you're trying to make ( whatever it is ).

 

It does have a bearing. The problem is likely that you would rather argue with me from from a specific angle and my argument doesn't fit that angle because it is not actually the point I am making. That is a personal problem. I'd say take it on it's terms without trying to generalize it into the point you'd rather deal with, such as you earlier refuting me saying no wants old stuff when I never said that or tried made that point, but internet arguments aren't actually important. Either way, It'll all be demonstrated when the pack comes out.

 

Yes you personally would not prefer it, that however does not mean it's a good idea and one that will generate more income that they currently generate. If that means you stop buying your few packs then oh well so be it ... that's life and that's business.

 

If it turns out like the Force Alliance pack then no it won't make more money. If they release the new pack in this proposed form, they will most likely have to spin on their heels and undo it somehow in the same manner. They may even have do it more quickly than they did with the alliance packs.

[santino]

This is stupid. The whole Bronze/Silver/Gold schemes were stupid from the beginning.

 

Why would they think it was a good idea to have a pack that contains everything?

1. The shear amount of items up for grabs is so large, that the probability of getting what you want is microscopic. Or did they not realize that the reason why people bought scores of packs/crates was because they were searching for a specific item? If the chances of you now getting the item you want is less than 1%, no one is going to waste their money on it.

2. Since the pool of new items added in each pack is dwarfed by the pool of items already on the CM, you are far more likely to receive old items that you didn't want.

 

They realize all of that. In fact, that's why they are doing it. They're betting that enough people will still be willing to throw money at packs in pursuit of specific items (and, thanks to these changes, actually buy MORE packs, on average, to get the same item) that it will raise their bottom line, even accounting for those who recognize this for the cash grab it is and stop buying packs entirely.

 

I'm not sure they're right. I guess time will tell. The only certainty is that, if this does change, they'll be certain to spin it as LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY, when in reality it will be due to a loss of revenue.

Edited January 30, 2016 by santino