Really frustrated with my guardian right now

[kanezfan]

I've played MMOs a long time, I understand how they work, I know how to gear toons properly, I know what kind of gear a guardian needs, I know which stat is the most important, I know how to pick talent points and which abilities those talents affect, etc, etc...

 

I do not expect a tank to kill something as fast as a pure dps class. I do however, expect a tank to walk away from a fight with 3 regular mobs with at least the same amount of health as a pure dps class, if not more health since a tank is built to take damage. That is not happening. On my shadow, I walk away with at least 80% every single time, and usually 90-95% health. On my tank, I walk away with something like 60% health, forcing me to regen after every fight. This is on a pack of 3-4 REGULAR mobs, not elites.

 

This is frustrating as it slows me down a lot. Granted it takes 5 seconds or so to regen to full but those 5 seconds add up a lot over time.

 

I respeced from the guardian tree to one of the DPS trees in the hopes that I would see a difference, but there is no difference. I am currently levl 28 and I have level 26 mods in all my modable armor (head, chest, hands, and belt (i think belt, pretty sure belt, servers are down for maintenance so I can't remember for sure) and in my lightsaber.

 

I rolled a sith warrior to try out the other AC for a knight/warrior and I do not need to regen every fight. On my smuggler/IA, same thing, I can wait 4-5 fights to regen.

 

I'm basically at a point where I do not even want to play my knight because I am bored with it and it takes too long to kill and regen now.

 

Anyone else feel this way?

 

And if you're gonna call me a noob or any other names, please save it. I'm looking for constructive criticism here, hopefully from someone who was in beta a long time and that can provide some hints or tips to make playing a JK more enjoyable.

[Anzerx]

just lvl with vigilance tree, and you will be fine

 

shien form and overhead smash are big steps forward in terms of dmg there

costfree force sweep too

 

aoe is not a strength of the guardian, but single target, i don't feel like doing less dmg than other classes

[Exorcism]

i completely agree with you.. i have played wow since vanilla and have always been a tank. these jedi guardians compare nothing to a warrior/dk/druid tank. no matter how geared i am in SWTOR i have the same exact problem as you (lvl 27 guardian), as does my rl friend who rolls as a guardian as well (lvl 29 guardian). we are both extremely frustrated with this class we chose. kind of hoping this class/spec is a late bloomer and hopefully their will be a patch coming along soon to boost this class. it isnt just you so dont fret too much, im sure every other guardian in this game feels the same exact way.

[Wylfing]

Were you running with the tank companion as a Shadow? Are you using the tank companion with your Guardian?

 

Normal mobs: Leap, Sweep, Blade Storm. That takes care of them. Both Leap and Blade Storm do tons of damage and keep normal mobs from doing anything, so you can't really take damage while you're burning them down. (Since you're talking about "tank" I assume you specced for the free Blade Storm and the 5% debuff on Sweep, right?)

 

Important tips: 1. Hit Riposte every time. Every single time. You can't do damage if your attack is blocked, and Riposte can't be blocked. 2. Sunder the bejeezus out of things.

 

If you're using Kira, she doesn't always pick targets so well. For example, if there are 4 normal mobs you're trying to take down and three are in a pack and one of them is standing off a ways waving his blaster around (as they do), Kira often jumps into the pack with you. That's not terribly helpful. Let her keep the lone wolf from shooting you instead. But you'll have to manually order her onto that target.

[nowares]

My guardian is level 35, tank spec'd and as it is I can plow through 4-5 groups before I have to stop and rest using Kira.

 

Now that I've received Doc I can pretty much just chain pull my way to happiness with only the very small rest if I do something silly like pull 3 groups at once.

 

Leveling up though was the same way, I had no problem pulling 2-3 packs before having to stop and rest. Make sure you're keeping your companion geared up otherwise their efficiency is massively reduced.

[Guaritorr]

Really, if your rolling with the tank AC, your best companion mechanically is probably your healer. On my Sith Jugg, I have no downtime between pulls with my healing companion out and can easily do 2+ heroics solo. Just make sure to keep your companions gear updated, it makes a significant difference... sadly I love Vette (ranged dps) too much and feel obligated to run around with her (on the off chance I run into some dialogue). Edited December 27, 2011 by Guaritorr

[Fallenlore]

The reason why your other class comes out ahead is that you are doing more damage and thus taking less damage from the mob due to shorter time in combat.

 

As a tank you probably have a lot of endurance and lower strength than say a Sentinal's higher strength and lower endurance. Switch it up if you want to solo. If you are gearing like a tank, expect slower kill speeds and better mitigation.

 

I think games like WoW really changed the old aspect of leveling as a tank. Back in the other MMO's if you were a tank, it was generally a slower process to solo and kill stuff yourself. You truely shine in a group, just keep running FP's to level up.

 

I am 99% of the time grouped with a healer (Jedi Sage) so I'm flying through the content. Besides, it's easy to find dps for FPs.

[Drakks]

I strongly advise not leveling as defensive until you have Doc.

 

Even then, I cannot justify for than 8 points in the defensive tree as it really gives you all you need -- the rest should absolutely go into Vig.

[Culbay]

I have been leveling as Defensive and have noticed no problems whatsoever. I spec for defense, gear for DPS, and overall it has evened itself out beautifully. I have had no problems tanking any of the flashpoints I have tried, nor have I had difficulty through the story missions. I run with Kira all of the time, rarely use my defensive cooldowns on anything other than big fights, rotate my limited crowd control on group fights, and usually can make it 5 or so encounters before I feel the need to rest and heal.

Honestly, the only issue I have ever had with staying alive and healthy is the fact that I frequently try and push the level/rank of mob I go after.

[vindianajones]

I have been leveling as Defensive and have noticed no problems whatsoever. I spec for defense, gear for DPS, and overall it has evened itself out beautifully. I have had no problems tanking any of the flashpoints I have tried, nor have I had difficulty through the story missions. I run with Kira all of the time, rarely use my defensive cooldowns on anything other than big fights, rotate my limited crowd control on group fights, and usually can make it 5 or so encounters before I feel the need to rest and heal.

Honestly, the only issue I have ever had with staying alive and healthy is the fact that I frequently try and push the level/rank of mob I go after.

 

This is almost exactly what I've done. I've tried other specs briefly for PvP analysis, but I'm always back to defense, and using Kira. Haven't got to Doc yet, but I haven't needed him. I absolutely love my spec/setup for PvE right now (and PvP too, incidentally). Having a blast with it. I'll certainly give Doc a chance when I get him, or if I'm having a particularly tough time killing something, but I'd rather keep things working the way they are rather than slow down all of my fights just to have some healing.

 

OP: I don't know what companion you've been using or what level you are, but I keep Kira geared quite well and it makes a big difference. I don't mean those junk green quest items for companions either. Her gear is at the same level as my own. She can be quite beastly. I can't remember the last time I had trouble in a PvE encounter that I was properly levelled for. I usually walk out of 4-5 regular mobs without much of a scratch. 20% down at the most, I'd say.

Edited December 27, 2011 by vindianajones

[kanezfan]

When you say Doc, are you talking about the droid you get with the ship at level ~16 or are you talking about another companion I don't have yet?

[Highfives]

That is essentially the problem with Guardian, it is an inadequate tank and even if you abandon tanking you won't be on the damage level as other dps classes if you want to roll that way.

 

Other people have been saying skilled players won't have a problem adapting, and they won't because their skill is bridging the gap between the level of disadvantage they are at.

 

You only need to look at the defense tree to see the Guardian is inherently flawed and I have to agree with the other poster that said quite a few of the abilities you gain are designed to make you less flawed because of Soresu form.

 

Guardian at the moment is long cooldowns and low to moderate survivability, that is the state of the class.

[Kenthen]

Guardian at the moment is long cooldowns and low to moderate survivability, that is the state of the class.

 

That sums it up quite well.

[Kitran]

When you say Doc, are you talking about the droid you get with the ship at level ~16 or are you talking about another companion I don't have yet?

 

You get a healer companion on Balmorra around level 34 or so.

[Helig]

You get a healer companion on Balmorra around level 34 or so.

 

Doc is awesome. Ship droid is a bucket of bolts.

[vekkth]

Before Tatooine i had absolutely zero problems with pve, playing a hybrid spec in defensive mostly, geared for tanking since i tank instances with my friends. but on Tatooine, around lvl 26-28, it actually drastically has changed. At lvl 29 i have to use all my cds every fight cycling defensive/offensive as they came off cooldowns to keep a somehow ok mob clearing speed. Still compared to dps classes its hillarious indeed, too slow, have to rest after every 2nd group pulled back to back.

 

and that means i use knockbacks, force stasis, defensive cooldowns, absolutely everything.

people say that with Doc it gets really much easier since you can just spec AOE dps at that point and just burn down those 3-4 mob groups, but i've yet to see that.

[Encaitor]

Well, im atleast gonna play around with the Shadow tank until they fix Kira's affection bug. Cant stand resting between each fight and not having Kira's (who makes me continue to play cuz just awesome ******(+scourge later)) dialogues...

[Ruskyandrei]

While I do enjoy my Guardian tremendously, and have so far had NO issues tanking ALL flashpoints (currently level 47), tanking in PvP or just soloing (since Doc at least), I have to agree that walking away with 50% hp after 3-4 normal mobs without Doc is crazy.

 

I am a tank, I have 33 points in Defense atm, and while I see the discussions here about the hybrid tank spec, I think nobody can claim that the full Defense tree doesn't currently offer the most in terms of avoidance and mitigation.

I also have fairly good gear for my level, my stats (aprox):

 

41% damage reduction

19% defense chance

31% shield chance

26% absorbtion

 

12k hp

 

Something is really, really wrong If I can't take on more than 4 normal mobs without my healer companion (ok, perhaps I can if i manage cooldowns a bit but should that really be needed as a tank vs a handful of normal mobs ?)

[FtenEQ]

Right now Jedi Guardians just have lower damage output. Guardians need to keep Riposte up, +accuracy debuff, and manage their cooldowns efficiently to come out even.

 

Right now there is no question that JGs are just the undoubtedly weakest class out there for soloing as it just is not a great class for soloing unless your cooldowns are all up and even then you have 3 mins in between.

 

One thing that every tank should check out is sending their companion in first on a group of mobs just to take a bit of damage. Even Kira I've noticed can take quite the alpha damage hit and you can just force jump in, challenging shout, force sweep, and then work on getting a riposte proc off and going from there.

 

Usually when you engage a silver/gold mob they will immediately use their CC ability upon being engaged, so letting your companion get stunned/knocked back instead of you will help immensely.

 

I think the only companion I wouldn't want to try this with is Doc because he won't really do any damage to the elite mob/mobs before you jump in and the only thing you're negating is the alpha stun/CC.

Edited December 28, 2011 by FtenEQ

[Carousel_t]

Hi guys, I'm a level 29 Guardian with full Defense tree specs. So far I had no problems with either tanking while in party or just soloing in PVE, even on Tatooine. My usual rotation - leap>sweep>sundering >storm(now i start pressing riposte constantly)>strike and sundering when available. For more stubborn enemies which just won't die after this rotation, i use either force kick to cancel their channeled attacks or just lift them up with stasis/push which makes them unable to attack me for couple of seconds. It's always a good idea to finish off easier mobs first - less damage is always good is it now? ^^ Oh, and it's essential to choose Kira as your companion since she's your main DPS. Edited December 28, 2011 by Carousel_t

[XxXSlaynXxX]

Hi guys, I'm a level 29 Guardian with full Defense tree specs. So far I had no problems with either tanking while in party or just soloing in PVE, even on Tatooine. My usual rotation - leap>sweep>sundering >storm(now i start pressing riposte constantly)>strike and sundering when available. For more stubborn enemies which just won't die after this rotation, i use either force kick to cancel their channeled attacks or just lift them up with stasis/push which makes them unable to attack me for couple of seconds. It's always a good idea to finish off easier mobs first - less damage is always good is it now? ^^ Oh, and it's essential to choose Kira as your companion since she's your main DPS.

 

Exactly the same here. Level 29, full dps spec, with kira. I jump in, sweep, sunder, storm. By this time at least 2 things are dead with kira smashing everything. I have had no problems at all. I also shop the GTN and keep all my gear top notch and I use mostly might stuff. I find the extra +end kind of crappy from guardian equipment. This changes if I find any equipment with mitigation though. Shielding and parrying actually increases DPS because of various talents. So I usually use a mix of might and +shield and +defense gear. I also have a lot of orange gear and throw in as up to date armoring and hilts as I can.

[stellardream]

I stuck it out till lvl 45 a couple days ago had to take a break after the story line glitched out and just throws you out of a story mode instance when trying to engage a boss.

 

With the defense tree full i still come away from fights feeling that I am not doing enough damage and the only way your going get through some of the story line components is with Doc healing the crap out of you.

 

 

I also feel like there are to many gee wiz ability's and no real semblance of a core rotation making it s quite difficult to play i already have like 2 bars full of ability's:(

 

Does any one else feel this way ??

[Manweth]

They seriously need to put "THIS CLASS'S DPS SPEC. IS ONLY VIABLE AFTER LVL 30." in the description of the advanced class selection screen.

 

Lvl 50 Vigilance GRD owner here = Can't be happier. I slaughter mobs like a Terminator, and with Doc at your side, you never have to stop to regen.

 

Stick with it till lvl30 and overhead slash/costfree sweep.

 

Plus, saber throw and push comes in and the fun starts

 

Mark my words, walking slaughter machine.

 

EDIT: There is no "rotation", there is only the priority young Padawan.

 

GRD /sent./ Juggernaut / MRD can't have a rotation due to their extremely action and proc oriented talents and damage dealing mechanics. Plus, animation times makes rotations useless since as a melee class, it is guaranteed you will be CCed at some point.

 

Rotation is a lie, there is only the PROC.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Manweth

[Vincire]

I gave up on my Guardian at level 33. I found that Defense is the way to go since at least at this point, Vigilance doesn't offer enough of a damage increase to justify the loss of survivability. Combine this with the fact that we do not get our healing companion until Mid 30's and you've got yourself a very frustrating class to play.

 

I played a Sith Warrior till 30 during the last week or so of Beta and didn't experience nearly this much trouble.

[Hulkster]

Aside from the class feeling generally underpowered, what is frustrating is the sheer number of keybinds needed.

 

The approach seems to be to give a lot of abilities each with fairly long cooldowns, but that means you have to keep them all hot keyed. I believe you end up with 31 abilities in total. New abilities do not replace old ones, so you need them all.

 

Many of these are similar and should be merged. Do we really need Strike AND Sundering Strike? Well, thanks to he cooldown on Sundering Strike, yea we do. But is Sundering Strike so powerful to need a cooldown other than the global cooldown? If they just removed the cooldown then Sundering Strike would act as direct upgrade to Strike, which we could then remove from our hotbars. Reduce the focus generation to achieve this if it is overpowered, though 'overpowered' and 'Jedi Guardian' in the same conversation seems laughable.

 

The same is true for Blade Storm and Slash. The cooldown on Blade Storm means we need to hotkey both. It would be far better to merge these abilities, the resource cost and gcd means they still could not be endlessly spammed.

 

Warding Call and Saber Ward are two more abilities with long cooldowns that achieve basically the same thing. Why not just replace the warding call talent with one that reduces Saber Ward's cooldown to 90 seconds and maybe increases the benefit?