How high is up, or just how easy is easy?

[Willowpillow]

There have been a lot of threads about game difficulty. Problem is a game's difficulty is very subjective. Some found the game at launch pretty hard, others too easy. Currently some find it just right, others trivial. The arguments just run in circles because there isn't really a standard or base to approach the discussion from.

 

This is where metrics are handy.

 

Lets pull some numbers from our butts. This is handy because even if we don't have the real numbers it is at least a common platform for the purposes of discussion.

 

1) Very easy. 90% of the player base can do the content without a problem. 10% have some difficulty due to non gaming issues like poor connection/computer/physical challenges ect..

 

2) Easy, 75% of the player base can do the content without problems. 25% have some difficulty like above with the addition of lack of skill and comprehension of the game mechanics.

 

3) Normal, 50% of the player base can do the content without problems, 25% have some difficulty as above but now 25% actually need some help from another player if they want to get the content done without out leveling the content.

 

4) Hard, 25% of the player base can do the content without problems, 50% have some difficulty as above, 25% need another player (a second player is a huge boost obviously)

 

5) Very Hard, 10% of the player base can do the content without difficulty, 25% have a lot of trouble, 65% either give up or take 1 or more friends.

 

So, how hard should this game be? How hard is it currently?

 

Context; ie, I am assuming a couple of things.

 

First, that the game adequately answers the question, How do I ...?

Secondly, that the game adequately answers the question, What does this do?

 

Obviously if the mechanics are so opaque only a few can figure out what their doing, encounter difficulty is at best moot.

 

So first off, thanks for reading. Second if you could reply to 4 questions.

 

Given the above scale;

 

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

2) How hard should the game be?

3) How hard do you find it?

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

 

Thanks for answering

[LordSodos]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

 

Very easy. I made my last character without dying even once, not even lower than 50% health --- even at goldstars WITHOUT comp.

 

2) How hard should the game be?

 

Hard. So people start to try harder and learn how to play it and spend more time.

 

3) How hard do you find it?

 

? 1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

 

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

 

Started with SWTOR as my first MMO. Over 420 ingame DAYS now.

[Vhaegrant]

The difficulty comes from having a single game mechanic for many different styles of play and then expecting to thread them through the same linear structure.

 

What is challenging for some disciplines is simple for others. A character with access to stealth and the ability to stun an enemy for 60 secs will find some of the heroics a breeze. A character with self heals can really drag out a combat compared to one that is reliant on the single med-pack.

 

What many also seem to forget is that KotFE is effectively a relaunch. The early chapters are functionaly no different than the starter worlds, and while that is hard to get your head around (what all these elite skytroopers are just stood still!? how did they ever beat the Empire???) it's just a part of making the game accessible to new players.

 

I think MMOs have probably reached the point where the server distinction should no longer be PvP/PvE/Roleplaying but Hardcore/Casual. Or maybe look into having different layers of difficulty in the instances (a hard instance, a medium instance, an easy instance). It wouldn't hurt to think of some new game mechanics that provide a challenge to the solo player/group outside of the linear story (I've proposed a wave attack mechanic) that could focus on specific roles and abilities or even the crew skills (I'd much rather have an actual daily to go and do than a text box I send my companion to)

 

Due to the linear nature, the basic content has to be completed by someone with no skills or understanding of core game mechanics (sad but seemingly true), however there is no reason not to have stand alone content that is not needed to progress that is far more challenging (to a certain extent Hard mode Flashpoints and Operations provide this experience for group play, but there is still nothing for the solo player, and despite what many think the majority of MMO players spend a great deal of their time in solo play)

[Excise]

Unfortunately, you have to say what "the content" refers to. You'll get very different responses for KOTFE content and NiM Op content.

[CrazyCT]

Unfortunately, you have to say what "the content" refers to. You'll get very different responses for KOTFE content and NiM Op content.

 

Just do 4 replies, stating which content - Story, FP's, HMFP's/OPs or HM/Nim OPs.

It's hard enough doing the thinking for myself.....

[ImmortalLowlife]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

*2-easy

2) How hard should the game be?

*2-easy

3) How hard do you find it?

*2-easy

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

THIS is the only mmo I play, and likely the only one I'll EVER play. I tried DCUO for about a week & didn't like the fact that once you hit a certain point, you HAD to group up to finish your "class story". I did install SWG back in tha day, but I never even made it off the falcon.

 

I'm a console SP RPG gamer at heart.

[Erevan_Kindelar]

The game should be accessible to casual players, for sure. The major issue that I personally have with the game difficulty as it is at the moment is the step up in difficulty that comes when you start experiencing the endgame content or some of the more complex fights in the Tactical Flashpoints (TFPs).

As you can get into those TFPs from very early in the game (level 15, iirc) via the Group Finder, and as you are not guaranteed to get a Trinity group (one with a tank, a healer and 2 DPS), those TFPs can be immensely frustrating and off-putting for new players. If those players do not know what they are doing, then it is frustrating for the more experienced players too, who basically end up wasting their time trying to complete content while handicapped with players who have not had to learn their class or their role in a group.

Some of the experienced players try to coach and train the newer players, and some new people appreciate it while some do not (in which case, the group rapidly falls apart, nobody has a good experience of the TFP and nobody is inclined to use the Group Finder, thus locking the new players even more into a single-player mode where they are reliant on their companions for everything.

So people get to levels 50-65, complete their class storylines, go through Ilum, Makeb, and the newer content, and they eventually experience all of the single-player content in the game. Then they start looking at Operations (group content, very complex fights, requiring group co-ordination and the ability to play your class and group role well).

In the pre-4.0 days, the step up in difficulty from storyline to Operations was considerable, but definitely doable with a good guild helping you learn the fights, and get geared up. Now post 4.0, the step up is that much larger, and many guilds who would previously have been very willing to take on a "new" max-level player and help them, are now much more reluctant to do so because those players often still have no idea about the basics of their class, and so need an immense amount of coaching to both learn new habits and unlearn old ones.

[Willowpillow]

Unfortunately, you have to say what "the content" refers to. You'll get very different responses for KOTFE content and NiM Op content.

 

Fair enough, solo content.

[Excise]

Fair enough, solo content.

 

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

- Very easy

 

2) How hard should the game be?

- Easy

 

3) How hard do you find it?

- Very easy

 

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

- Super experienced.

[JasmineMoldovia]

I think the game is very easy, I think it should be very easy, I find the game very easy. I've been playing MMOs since final fantasy 11 came out in the US, as main form of entertainment, I am disabled, and I spend 80 of my day in an mmo of some sort.

 

Basically Nothing, outside of a raid, in game should Require another soul. Raids by their nature should require people, but nothing else should, I got really tired of being the drg looking for a party for six hours to go kill a single mob, never again will I accept content that is denied to a solo player.

 

Oh, and before anyone asks, why I bother to play an MMO, because I like a self continuing non static world, that gives me a sense of progression and permanence.

[Fluffometer]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

 

Pretty Easy. This is fine by me except see below:

 

2) How hard should the game be?

 

Easy, with the caveat that the chapter and final bosses need tweaking substantially to my mind. Most of them die quicker than a lot of H2 Elites.

 

3) How hard do you find it?

 

Easy, and, as above, I'm fine with that. Wouldn't object to some extra difficulty being injected in certain areas such as named bosses and class bosses.

 

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

 

Played a few over the years, but never to the extent of SWTOR.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Fluffometer

[Sarfux]

In Soviet Lussia! SWTOR plays YOU! HA

 

Games should have some level of difficulty but I always imagined mmorpgs would be the easier route. They are games for escaping to another world and chillin out. I already deal with challenges everyday in real life. I don't need challenges when I'm trying to relax playing a game to escape that crap in real life

[AlrikFassbauer]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

 

Very easy. I made my last character without dying even once, not even lower than 50% health --- even at goldstars WITHOUT comp.

 

Are you a long-time player, trained with playing SWTOR ? Or are you even an MMO Veteran ?

 

If you say "very easy", it might well be that you are far too well trained for this game, and therefore just be too good ...

 

Look up in Wikipedia for the "Curse Of Knowledge" ...

[Myracarrah]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

Very Easy

2) How hard should the game be?

Easy for most solo content Normal for H2s

3) How hard do you find it?

Stupidly insultingly easy wasn't an option.

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

I played MUDs back in the 90s, EQ1 when it was shiny and new.

 

While I understand the story (class and planet) should be accessible to all. Things like H2s should provide players with the chance to use their rotations, learn to upgrade their gear, etc. Instead we have people standing around naked dancing while their level 1 ship droid clears the mobs. (yes it happens. Someone even has a youtube vid of it).

 

Doing the combat without your companion isn't a viable solution either, as the combat itself has been downgraded so much that even running companion free doesn't provide a chellenge until you hit Makeb (H2s not story) and Oricon. By the time you get to Rishi, Yavin, and Ziost... you can put your companion away again. No challenge on those planets to be found in solo content. Then you can find some small bit of challenge soloing the SFs with no buffs, but that varies by class, DPS find it harder, while Tanks and Healers just find the fights looooooong.

 

My solution? Someone for the love of all that is goodness, put a difficulty setting on INSTANCE doors!

 

1) Solo mode - this mode would be designed at the simplicity level of Class and Planet quests.

2) Duo mode - this is an upgraded version of the same instance, designed for two players to run. OR one experienced player with decent gear and a basic understanding of their rotations. (think SFs).

3) Hard mode - This would bump the H2 instance back up to the general difficulty of an H4. Designed for a group, but could be run with less depending on player skill and balance.

 

This solution would not harm anyone's solo play, but would provide the required challenge for solo players who want to remember where their interrupt skill is on their hotbar.

[DisIzMe]

Game now - Very easy. Reason for this observation - no more requests for help on tough story bosses from undergeared/new players ,players in end game group finder wearing early game gear meaning it was not a problem for them in later stages of the game.

 

Game should be - Easy to normal. Removing challenge eventually makes it not fun for people that want to continue to play and people that are for story only experience the story and leave. Which cant be good for subscription-based MMO.

 

I find it as it is - very easy. Depressingly easy,frankly.

 

Experience at MMOs: played only 1 MMO -SWTOR,but for 3-4 years. So pretty experienced at it.

[Willowpillow]

snip

I think MMOs have probably reached the point where the server distinction should no longer be PvP/PvE/Roleplaying but Hardcore/Casual. |snip| there is still nothing for the solo player, and despite what many think the majority of MMO players spend a great deal of their time in solo play)

 

A very good idea and comment!! So good in fact that I am jealous! The idea of setting difficulty by server selection never occurred to me.

 

Would it be better to buff the mobs or nerf the player's characters? Either way works and I can see advantages to either.

[LordArtemis]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

 

Easy.

 

2) How hard should the game be?

 

Easy. Game should be balanced for brand new player with no boosts, legacy or gear IMO.

 

3) How hard do you find it?

 

Easy, depending on content and companion use/role used. Can be Normal at times.

 

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

 

Been MMO gaming since 1998. Ive played over two dozen MMOs. Been playing this one since Beta.

Edited January 13, 2016 by LordArtemis

[LordTynell]

I think this game is chill. One you play for a SW experience. Injecting challenge means possibly alienating subs, which is what happened when they nerfed comps before..

[Applejacxs]

There have been a lot of threads about game difficulty. Problem is a game's difficulty is very subjective. Some found the game at launch pretty hard, others too easy. Currently some find it just right, others trivial. The arguments just run in circles because there isn't really a standard or base to approach the discussion from.

 

This is where metrics are handy.

 

Lets pull some numbers from our butts. This is handy because even if we don't have the real numbers it is at least a common platform for the purposes of discussion.

 

1) Very easy. 90% of the player base can do the content without a problem. 10% have some difficulty due to non gaming issues like poor connection/computer/physical challenges ect..

 

2) Easy, 75% of the player base can do the content without problems. 25% have some difficulty like above with the addition of lack of skill and comprehension of the game mechanics.

 

3) Normal, 50% of the player base can do the content without problems, 25% have some difficulty as above but now 25% actually need some help from another player if they want to get the content done without out leveling the content.

 

4) Hard, 25% of the player base can do the content without problems, 50% have some difficulty as above, 25% need another player (a second player is a huge boost obviously)

 

5) Very Hard, 10% of the player base can do the content without difficulty, 25% have a lot of trouble, 65% either give up or take 1 or more friends.

 

So, how hard should this game be? How hard is it currently?

 

Context; ie, I am assuming a couple of things.

 

First, that the game adequately answers the question, How do I ...?

Secondly, that the game adequately answers the question, What does this do?

 

Obviously if the mechanics are so opaque only a few can figure out what their doing, encounter difficulty is at best moot.

 

So first off, thanks for reading. Second if you could reply to 4 questions.

 

Given the above scale;

 

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

2) How hard should the game be?

3) How hard do you find it?

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

 

Thanks for answering

 

 

Everyday stuff(class mission's Heroics, daily areas):Easy to very easy

 

Optional stuff 1(Flash Points, PVP, GSF,SM OP):Normal

 

Options stuff 2 (HM OP, Ranked PVP) :Hard

 

Optional stuff 3:(NM OP) Very Hard

 

That is how I see it . Now depending on things like Nerfs/Boost then may go up and down.

 

As someone who went from a f2p to sub . I joined a month after f2p was added. I think there is a bit of good old days syndrome going on. Because the only boss I remember every giving me problems was the PAYWALL boss. Which is why i went sub.

 

People should not focus on the game being easy. focus more on Bio ware not providing harder content options. On that I think common ground can be had by everyone.

 

Experienced with mmos both Western and Eastern MMO's

Edited January 14, 2016 by Applejacxs

[Swissbob]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

 

By your definitions, (assuming we're talking about solo story/leveling content) even easier then "Very Easy."

 

I would think it would be beyond 90% of the playerbase could do it without a problem, given that no input is required on part of the player to win.

, so I see no reason why anyone could actually possibly die in solo story content, under really any circumstances other then by intentionally killing themselves. Nothing's impossible I suppose, but still I'd say 99% would be able to do it without a problem, so again, by your definitions, even easier then "Very Easy."

 

 

2) How hard should the game be?

 

Again, using your definitions, I'd say, If I only had to pick one, then Normal. Enough challenge to interest those who want it, but nothing overwhelming to.... well.... overwhelm people who don't want it to be too difficult.

 

But it doesn't have to be only one level of difficulty. I'm not going to rant about this here, but if you want to see what I'm talking about, go here.

 

3) How hard do you find it?

 

See answer to Question 1.

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

 

SWTOR is my first main one. Been subscribed and playing (on and off) since launch.

 

Since then I've tried a few others, ESO chief among these, but haven't played them nearly as much as SWTOR.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Swissbob

[ReverendAnderson]

1) How hard do you think the game currently is?

Well, considering input from the player literally isn't required for the bulk of the story content, I'm not sure "Easy" even applies.

What's the lowest setting on the scale? Set it to that. Then divide by 2. Now you've got a game about twice as difficult as playing the story content in SWTOR.

 

2) How hard should the game be?

Hard than it was in 3.0, but that difficulty to should be largely restricted to larger fights and especially quest bosses. I don't want to grind through loads of weak and normal enemies that take a ton of hits, but I don't want to kill a sith lord in just a couple hits, like I am now, either.

 

4) How experienced are you at MMOs?

This is the first (and only) one I've played long enough to get through leveling.