There is no single player challenge anymore

[PlagaNerezza]

this game is a face roll now *** did they do to it

easy mode in an mmo is not a good thing

 

got a 55k hp marra and my pets have more hp then me ***

and the single player fp, get rid of the support droid ffs its not needed with our new super powered pets lol

I'm the imps Roth yet vettie can tank the world and jessa can destroy the entire galaxy did the devs not see anything wrong with this picture

and I cant die if I put them on heal mode I mean come on did people leave because the game was to op I do not think so

 

sad day shame on you B.W forshame on you

 

I rather like that carebear PVE now is faster. I can enjoy the cut scenes vs. waste 1 hour clearing trash mob after trash mob to hear the next part of the story.

 

Now if they could only be better writers....

[Kawiki]

This morning I got my newest character. an operative, to 65. I picked out an outfit for him to use when I started and went through Hutta in empty shells. Except for a color crystal at level 10 and a level 8 starting knife, I got no gear on the entire run. I leveled the entire way with empty armor shells. I died three times: twice from being knocked into another mob and once from an elevator. There was no real challenge in any of it.

 

In 3.0 I started a new sorcerer and tried to see how long I could go with empty shells. With him I got to Alderaan and those silvers in the Alde and Rist areas demolished him so I had to gear up and play better. The sorc run took longer but it was a heck of lot more interesting.

 

Back in the early months of the game I developed an infrastructure to keep all my alts geared throughout the leveling process. Sadly this is no longer needed. Now I don't even worry about it until level 65 and only with those alts that will be running more difficult content.

 

It's sad. It used to be fun acquiring new gear.

[Neglience]

Only solo player challenges I've ever found in this game:

Jedi Knight storyline bosses, faceroll after you figure them out

Some of the bosses in Jedi Consular story, faceroll after you figure them out

Oricon bosses, faceroll after you figure them out

 

Were there ever any other challenges for solo players?

 

Yes, this game had some tougher fights. Now, pretty much every fight is just face roll while watching netflix.

[ALaggyGrunt]

Yes there is OP:

 

It's see how many times one can run the same thing over and over and over again, without losing their minds.

 

Too late. Mine's already gone.

[goodnamebro]

Yes, this game had some tougher fights. Now, pretty much every fight is just face roll while watching netflix.

 

Today I pulled a pack of half silver/half gold tagged mobs and went to the kitchen to check the oven, felt a little odd at first, but came back and looted the corpses.

np np

good stuff

[GalacticKegger]

Only solo player challenges I've ever found in this game:

Jedi Knight storyline bosses, faceroll after you figure them out

Some of the bosses in Jedi Consular story, faceroll after you figure them out

Oricon bosses, faceroll after you figure them out

 

Were there ever any other challenges for solo players?

There was before level sync and solo mode replaced level appropriate progression. Single player challenge has been turned into single player story. Challenges are relegated to tactical HMs and ops now. That is unless you enjoy getting your character pummeled into fertilizer by trying to tackle tacticals at anything less than high level.

 

I took my 32 TK sage through Solo Mode Taral V & Maelstrom, and for the hell of it dismissed Qyzen and let the GSI droid do its thing. Other than initiating aggro with Turbulence, I never fired a shot or cast a heal. The droid cleared the whole Maelstrom flashpoint by itself in just under 2 hours and all I did was hide my character behind stuff and watch. The lone hit it took was from Colonel Daksh, and that's only because I was pouring a brandy at the time and missed moving my character behind a power box. Even the Kilran fight at the end was a cakewalk. Just micro the droid by aggroing mobs as they appear and stay out of LOS.

 

The leveling game essentially plays itself now, companions included. VERY bad news for progression altoholics.

Edited December 23, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[ekwalizer]

I think he talking more about the challenges of tackling content that was originally meant to be group content. If he had the right set up, or was a skilled player, it would potentially allow you to solo some stuff a little above your league. However, with the current game everything is easy mode with no real challenge in sight.

 

Ah yes, but that is by definition, *not* Single Player content.

 

The ability to for one person do a thing and a thing being designed specifically for one person to do are not the same thing.

[Morthion]

this game is a face roll now *** did they do to it

easy mode in an mmo is not a good thing

 

Out of curiosity, why not?

 

got a 55k hp marra and my pets have more hp then me ***

and the single player fp, get rid of the support droid ffs its not needed with our new super powered pets lol

I'm the imps Roth yet vettie can tank the world and jessa can destroy the entire galaxy did the devs not see anything wrong with this picture

and I cant die if I put them on heal mode I mean come on did people leave because the game was to op I do not think so

 

So put them on passive? Oh, wait. From another poster . . .

 

I shouldn't have to wear a blindfold to get a challenge out of the game. Putting the onus on players may make you feel superior, but all it does is remove the responsibility for producing a good game from the people who actually make it.

 

So the only good games in the history of entertainment have been challenging?

 

You should definitely have to manufacture challenge for yourself if you're looking for it in the part of the game where the designers have expressly stated they don't want it.

 

I pay for this game because I want a challenge, If I want to challenge myself I can think of a lot cheaper ways to do it.

 

Is PvP not a challenge? Or does the idea that challenge is the main complaint need reconsideration?

[Swissbob]

I know players with all BiS gear that complain everyday that the game is "too easy" and

"there is no challenge to PVE anymore."

 

The answer is: wear all green armor and trinks then go back out there. That's the challenge.

All best in slot gear will make you OP.

 

[...]

 

To be skilled is to be strong.

 

Yes....

was easy because of my BiS gear and my great skills.

 

This ain't the beginnings of the MMO era. People have jobs and things to do.

 

Yes, I have jobs and things to do, too. But when I find a little bit of time to sit down and play SWTOR? I want compellingly challenging gameplay, that gives me a sense of fulfillment when I overcome an adversary that was close to my own power. You know... something that gives me a little bit of excitement... drama.... engagement.

 

I don't want to stare at the screen while my Level 1 Protocol droid defeats all opposition before me.

 

Unfortunately for me, I almost never have enough free time to set aside to play whole Operations or Hard Mode Flashpoints, and my computer is too crappy to play PvP with a playable framerate, so all I have left is solo content (and I'm mainly here for the story anyway).... and that part of the game has no life or "gameplay" to speak of. Just watching companions winning the game.

 

Ultimately, I'm just going to quote myself again, and say what I've been saying for months now, because it still rings true to me and these threads keep popping up.

 

Player choice is the solution. There should be an optional "Hard Mode", which increases difficulty via more challenging mobs, and produces ever so slightly higher rewards (like already existing hard mode content in the game) like slightly more xp/credits, to offset the increased time it takes to clear through content. Or, alternatively, the challenging content would be default, and an easier to implement "Easy Mode" would buff the player/companion to make the game much easier, albeit for reduced rewards. And, to cover another large part of the playerbase (those who find combat tedious in any form, and just want to get to the story), a "No Combat Mode"could be introduced, in which mobs don't aggro and don't even appear in instanced areas, so players can skip the part of the game they find boring.

 

Win, win, win. You satisfy (almost) every type of player.

 

 

 

And also, to the people who don't understand why simply dismissing our companions isn't a good final solution, here is my best explanation (I posted on a thread here a while ago):

 

 

I am, as it stands right now, trying to manufacture difficulty for myself (dismissing companions, etc.). But it isn't a good long term solution. Trying to find ways to artificially manufacture difficulty with no built in incentive in the game really still puts a damper on any difficulty I'm creating for myself. I mean I could play with a blindfold or an arm tied behind my back but in these ways I'm battling arbitrary restrictions I'm imposing on myself, , rather than battling the game's natural opposition.

 

All of that might seem weird to you, as it is kind of a psychological thing, but if I have to go around the natural way of the game to invent difficulty for myself, psychologically it isn't satisfying because there's no sense of accomplishment because I'm just giving myself challenge that isn't there naturally. But if I go through the natural way of the game, and there's challenge, then overcoming that challenge *is* satisfying because it's actual adversity presented *to* me, as opposed to *by* me.

 

I want to be forced to use every resource at my disposal to win, not be forced to purposefully limit what resources I get to use just to force a little bit of challenge out of the game.

 

To use an example, let's say I want to play a game of [insert favorite team sport here]. I show up to find that the opposing team is comprised of 5 year olds who have absolutely no chance of beating me and present no challenge. Would that be fun? Not for me; I want challenge. I want a strong opposing team. Now, I could manufacture my own challenge by tying all four limbs behind my back and wearing a blindfold! That would even the playing field against the five year olds, but it wouldn't be fun, because I'm just meaninglessly manufacturing difficulty for myself, rather than having an obstacle or challenge presented to me.

 

I get satisfaction (ie entertainment) from overcoming adversity (a team of skilled players), and not from overcoming my own self-imposed handicaps. I don't want to arbitrarily limit myself just to invent a modicum of difficulty that wasn't there at all, I want my opposition's inherent challenge to require me to use all of my assets and resources to triumph.

 

As it stands right now, learning my abilities, improving my rotation, getting good gear, getting the best medpacs, stimpacks etc., ranking up my companion's influence, or really trying hard at all, is all pointless, because I can win 95% of all fights by standing still in my undies while my Rank 1 2V-R8 wins the game for me. Dismissing 2V-R8 doesn't make any of that prior stuff meaningful, because deep down I'll still know that all that effort is just to get me up to the level of power the game hands to me for free, and is thus meaningless.

 

TL;DR Put simply, I want the ability to make my enemies stronger, not purposefully handicap my own strength. I want to feel like I'm competing against a force dangerously equal to my own maximum ability.... raising myself up to triumph over a potent adversity, not lowering myself down to the level of the Kindergarten enemies just to feel a speck of challenge.

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Swissbob

[MiguelGx]

Actually I'm feeling like if I was now the companion and they were the heroes

[ivanhedgehog]

I shouldn't have to wear a blindfold to get a challenge out of the game. Putting the onus on players may make you feel superior, but all it does is remove the responsibility for producing a good game from the people who actually make it. I pay for this game because I want a challenge, If I want to challenge myself I can think of a lot cheaper ways to do it.

 

If you want the story to be handed to you on a platter, go watch them on youtube.

 

they make the game to appeal to a wide variety of customers. it isnt all about you. again, if you are smart enough to challenge yourself, you can find challenge. take responsibility for your own experience. good bowlers dont use a handicap, they challenge themselves. they arent hurting themselves in any way, just choosing to not use advantages they would normally have. I had a friend that would sword fight left handed, even though he was right handed, he was pushing himself, testing himself. pushing his own limitations in order to overcome them. you can do the same.

[Transcendent]

this game is a face roll now *** did they do to it

easy mode in an mmo is not a good thing

 

got a 55k hp marra and my pets have more hp then me ***

and the single player fp, get rid of the support droid ffs its not needed with our new super powered pets lol

I'm the imps Roth yet vettie can tank the world and jessa can destroy the entire galaxy did the devs not see anything wrong with this picture

and I cant die if I put them on heal mode I mean come on did people leave because the game was to op I do not think so

 

sad day shame on you B.W forshame on you

 

Step 1. Remove all gear (you'll still look like you're dressed due to costume designer).

Step 2. Dismiss companion.

Step 3. Enjoy your challenge (?)

[JouerTue]

please can i have a list of content doable in solo considered ''challenging'' before 4.0?

the only things that i can remember are solo lvl 50 hm fp at 55, maybe H4 solo..

[Neglience]

please can i have a list of content doable in solo considered ''challenging'' before 4.0?

the only things that i can remember are solo lvl 50 hm fp at 55, maybe H4 solo..

 

Some quest encounters and some class mission bosses. But that is not the real point. Before 4.0 nothing was semi-afk faceroll. You had to use more then 1-3 buttons if you wanted to beat most encounters.

 

the toughest fight i remember:

 

 

Funny side note: There is actual social interaction in an MMO on chat about how to beat the boss.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Neglience

[Morthion]

But that is not the real point. Before 4.0 nothing was semi-afk faceroll. You had to use more then 1-3 buttons if you wanted to beat most encounters.

 

So random mobs should take longer to fight. How does this interact with threads complaining about having to fight mobs, which takes up time?

[Swissbob]

please can i have a list of content doable in solo considered ''challenging'' before 4.0?

the only things that i can remember are solo lvl 50 hm fp at 55, maybe H4 solo..

 

I'm not going to sit here and tell you the game was "hard" or "challenging" before 4.0. If you had decent gear, and had a good sense of your class and rotation, dying outside of fall damage or aggroing too many mobs would be pretty rare. While I still would've liked more challenge back then.... at least it was *gameplay.* At least it required me to have that good gear, or have those goods skills, in order to win over some of the tougher enemies. When I beat a tough enemy (after usually a tense or at least compellingly close fight, I might add), I could say "I won because of the good gear I have" or "I won because of my skill in the game."

 

Now? I can go up to any elite in my undies, and stand completely still while my protocol droid wins the game for me. Combat is a complete joke, and so impossible to lose (not pressing any buttons, I still win) that it raises the question: What is the point of it at all anymore? As I level up, what's the point of learning my abilities, getting good gear and augmenting it, putting thought into how I level up, getting good medpacs and stim packs and adrenals, or just trying hard at all, when I can win against all opposition without doing any of these things? All those prior game systems, tied around improving your ability in combat, and that have been in place for years, are no longer relevant, because the game hands you a "Win Button" for free... an Influence 1 companion. What's interesting about a WoW style MMO like SWTOR is that almost all of the game systems revolve around improving your ability in combat in some way.... and when you take away any and all need to improve yourself for combat (in solo play, at least).... you make almost all of your game systems laughably irrelevant.

 

 

So yes..... you could call it "easy" before. But at least it required the players to press buttons to win. At least it was gameplay. It's crazy how low the bar is..... (Just make the player need to press buttons to win!!!)..... and yet the game now fails to meet it.

 

The game before 4.0 was a nice mix of combat, and story. The story was where the real fun was at, and the combat gave me a nice diversion as I worked my way through to the next cut scene. Now, however.... Combat is no longer gameplay.... just an amount of time I have to watch 2V-R8 clear out all the Jedi Masters, huge monsters, or battle hardened Republic commandos in front of me while I stand still and wait for the next cutscene to happen.

 

 

And before someone says "Dismiss you companion, then" without reading my essay earlier in the thread about why this mentality is poor....

 

 

I am. I am dismissing my companion. It's the only thing I can do to squeeze some modicum of challenge out of solo content.

 

But there's a reason difficulty modes exist in video games. They exist because players don't want to force their own invented arbitrary restrictions on themselves.... and limit what assets they get to use just to make a kindergarten level challenge seem harder. Instead, they want the level of opposition increase, forcing them to make use of all of their assets in the optimal way to triumph.

 

They don't want to go around the way of the game, saying "Okay, I'm only going to use the worst guns in game.... or I'm not going to press any buttons until I'm at 50% health.... or I'm going to play with only one hand on the controller".... They want the game to present innate challenge *to* them, and be forced to use everything in their arsenal to triumph.

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Swissbob

[Kaedusz]

Sorry but if anyone had problems and found the single player content before 4.0 hard, they are either bad at the game or extremely underleveled for the stuff they tried to do. Edited December 24, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Swissbob]

So random mobs should take longer to fight. How does this interact with threads complaining about having to fight mobs, which takes up time?

 

Player choice. Give a difficulty option.

 

Hard Mode: Tougher enemies which deal more damage and take less, and produce slightly more xp/credits to counterbalance increased time input.

Easy Mode: Combat akin to what it is now.

No Combat Mode: Mobs don't aggro and don't appear in instances. This satisfies people who find combat tedious regardless of its difficulty just want to skip it all together.

 

Everyone has different opinions on how to play.... why make only one group happy when you can make (almost) everyone happy?

 

As it is, the current state of combat is the worst of both worlds. People who like combat and want to play through it are bored because combat is no longer gameplay that requires buttons to be pressed, and so there's no challenge and thus no fun.

 

And then people who find combat tedious, while happy because in their eyes it's better then before as it is over with quicker, are still ultimately bored during combat because.... well, they find combat tedious and any time spent on it, even if it's less time then before, is time they spend doing something tedious, and thus no fun.

 

Ultimately, the current state of combat fails to meet either major end of the playerbase in my eyes.... it's an unhappy middle ground that leaves most people bored during combat (which is a major part of the game). However if Bioware just inserted some more player choice into this aspect of the game... (almost) everyone could be happy.... getting to spend more time being entertained, and less time being bored.

[Jerqa]

this game is a face roll now *** did they do to it

easy mode in an mmo is not a good thing

 

got a 55k hp marra and my pets have more hp then me ***

and the single player fp, get rid of the support droid ffs its not needed with our new super powered pets lol

I'm the imps Roth yet vettie can tank the world and jessa can destroy the entire galaxy did the devs not see anything wrong with this picture

and I cant die if I put them on heal mode I mean come on did people leave because the game was to op I do not think so

 

sad day shame on you B.W forshame on you

 

It was "easy mode" long before 4.0 and Knights of the Fallen Empire.

[Sarfux]

Remember, games are for fun and to escape Find ways to challenge yourself to be a better YOU in real life! Take care Edited December 24, 2015 by Sarfux

[lukewarcriminal]

from authors point of view: new challenge = finding fun in swtor. flawless logic

[Fargard]

SW:TOR could be a game joining two worlds perfectly fine.

"Easy mode" and "hard mode".

 

Why?

Well, it has a nice story while you level.

So, would anybody mind IF:

- Leveling is as it is now, "easy", doable for anyone, nice story, voiced quests, good way to learn basics of the game

- AND later, when you reached max levels, hard OPs, hard content, hard "raids"?

 

Guess it would be nice and fair.

But as of now, there is no hard endgame content. That's a problem.

"Easy" leveling isn't.

[Morthion]

Player choice. Give a difficulty option.

 

Hard Mode: Tougher enemies which deal more damage and take less, and produce slightly more xp/credits to counterbalance increased time input.

 

Actually, no. If people want challenge, then they're getting rewarded already by being given content they want. They should not be given more for playing the way they like to play.

 

Also, rather than affecting enemies, difficulty should apply a debuff to the character in question. This would allow different difficulty level people to run the same content in group, but one will have a harder time than the other.

 

Everyone has different opinions on how to play.... why make only one group happy when you can make (almost) everyone happy?

 

As it is, the current state of combat is the worst of both worlds. People who like combat and want to play through it are bored because combat is no longer gameplay that requires buttons to be pressed, and so there's no challenge and thus no fun.

 

And then people who find combat tedious, while happy because in their eyes it's better then before as it is over with quicker, are still ultimately bored during combat because.... well, they find combat tedious and any time spent on it, even if it's less time then before, is time they spend doing something tedious, and thus no fun.

 

There is a third group -- those who think that when you hit something with a lightsaber, it should die, with an occasional enemy that takes two or three hits. Which is answer enough to the question: why not make everybody happy? Because nobody can ever reach every group.

 

Ultimately, the current state of combat fails to meet either major end of the playerbase in my eyes.... it's an unhappy middle ground that leaves most people bored during combat (which is a major part of the game).

 

Actually, for story things, combat is not a major part of the game any more. The portions of the game where combat plays a major role are now PvP and, as I understand it, the higher difficulty Ops. There is currently player choice; you can choose to play in the combat-heavy or combat-light portions of the game.

 

Which isn't to say that I disagree with the concept of player-selected difficulty, so long as it's done to a given character rather than all the NPCs.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Morthion
Grammar

[Andrellma]

This ain't the beginnings of the MMO era. People have jobs and things to do.

 

What relevance does that have to anything? We all know that BioWare's idea of making things harder is just to stack piles of health on it so it takes longer to kill, but that's not what most of us are asking for when we ask for "challenging single player content."

 

Contrary to popular belief, most of us are not living in our parents' basements with no family, job, or social life. Almost all of us, including those who are asking for something with a challenge, have jobs and/or school, family obligations, and an active social life. I personally only play any video games at all for about 1-2 hours a day (if even that) at the moment, and I'd still prefer a challenge to this laughably easy content that we have now. In fact, this game's lack of challenging content, and the lack of any new real end game content being released any time in the forseeable future has led to this game getting even less playtime from me, and unless something changes, I will not be renewing my subscription when it ends in February.

[TheLordMagnus]

SEEING FELLOW FOUNDERS ON THIS PAGE DEFENDING CRAP LIKE THIS IS A JOKE THIS EXPLAINES IT ALL

yes I was here from beta to say this game didn't have any hard moments is a joke or you went to internet to win every fight buy knowing the mechanics of every fight

you couldn't solo elits that were a few lvls above you unless you were uber geared this game is nothing but easy mode so easy now we have nothing but story in single player

Now all fights are a simple chore you can mash any button to win

I like everything else they did immensely but the face roll mode is bull sh*t

Edited December 24, 2015 by TheLordMagnus