Feedback to Bioware from Founder with 10 days left on sub.

[PennyAnn]

There's some things in there that I don't agree with, but overall very well written and thought out post. There's a good bit I agree with, too.

 

I don't really agree with you on the companion influence grind, star fortress grind, or any free 60 should have level 10 influence companions. But, everything else is something I can get behind.

 

 

......tangent time: Yavin hook designs....I feel ya there...so much. That strong hold makes me want to shoot myself. Sad that the next strong hold that comes out gets that spot. Absolutely the worst strong hold there could be design wise. No clue what they were thinking with it's lay out. It's awful. I avoid mine like it's the plague. It'll stay stuck at 64 percent cause every time I zone in there I find myself cursing at something in it. Also....700 hooks for a guild ship but 900 for tat? 750 for Yavin? None of it makes any sense. I find the hook design, and numbers of hooks available across the board to be stupid.

 

Agreed about strongholds! Ugh!!

 

Even though the first level 60 is "free" it is meant as a reward to subscribers and should be a reward worthy of the money paid. If you pay cartel coins to buy the token to unlock the level 60, even more reason you should get the value for your money. But... we don't have to agree and I won't try to convince anybody who disagrees with me other than to state my view and leave others to their own views. I'm a live and let live girl!

 

[PennyAnn]

Can't argue with any of this, other than a quibble here and there. The key here is that the product we're seeing, that we're actually getting as of 12/2015, is clearly not geared to endgamers. Either BW has "given up" (almost a preposterous statement when you look at the healthy financials) or they have made the brutal decision that older, more casual players are better overall ROI.

 

When I say "constant", I'm not referring to you per se. But there are many hardcore players that cannot be satiated at all. They chew up content faster than it can be realistically produced, and then still, understandably, want MOOAARR! They quit once they don't get it. So even where you may be an exception (and I think you are, frankly, in the smaller group of endgamers who's stuck through it all thick and thin), I suspect BW has looked at the numbers and made its decisions based on that.

 

Millions of monthly subs changes all of this of course because more resources are available to cater to many factions. But again, I don't want to deny the chicken/egg problem here - did BW not get millions of subs because they "botched" the endgame content, or did they decide not to dedicate more earnestly to endgame content because they didn't get the millions of subs they expected? I don't think we know the answer there and it may be both.

 

I do agree with you that even for casuals, this current game isn't setting the world on fire, and if casuals start unsubbing, they will alter course quickly. But for now, this "gamble" seems to be having the desired effect - reusing enough old content to keep all but the hardcore player occupied for the next few months/years even. All that said, I hope you change your mind and stay, or come back soon!

 

No need to quibble, my friend. We're not that far off from one another if we have to quibble so I say call it agreement for the most part. Many of the replies from long-term subs in this very thread said they were also end game raiders though, so I think there are more of us than you'd believe... but I agree not enough of us to make us worth Bioware's while. Their choice, and they will suffer the consequences or be rewarded for their decision. Time will tell!

 

I will likely be back, but definitely not soon. I'll be back when the story chapters are all available and I'll get my $15 worth by playing through them all in a sitting (which unfortunately, will be easily done in a sitting... maybe 2). I highly doubt they will add anything else to this game to entice me to come back in the meantime, as they have no plans for anything but story content well into the fall of 2016 announced. And... I think if they had something else in mind, they would announce it. Giving up a half hour of play time as HK and keeping $120 is a tradeoff I can totally live with... I paid $15 to play through chapters 1-9 (over HALF of the entire series!) and feel like that was worth it. I won't feel like more than $15 is worth it for the other less than half of this story. And if that's all they have coming, then the decision is a sound one in my mind. But that's just for me!

 

I hope that you continue to enjoy the game and get all that you hope to out of it. I did for 4 years leading up to now, so that's something, right?

[PennyAnn]

I can only speak to my personal experiences, and with that being said, the main reason I've stuck around is for the friends and camaraderie earned through my time in the game. So many of those players are leaving now. Good players, good people. In the short term, perhaps Bioware can replace the numbers with new casual subs and such. But, the impact of losing so many quality individuals will have an exponential long term impact. If this trend continues, and I suspect it will, then the very thing that has kept me in it's orbit will lose all it's gravity.

 

We've all read the continual doom and gloom predictions in the forums. This feels like something different. I truly hope something is done to reverse the course.

 

I will miss tanking with you, my friend. But I'll be around and you'll know where to find me... playing other games most likely, but I'm not gonna be a stranger to the people I've enjoyed meeting via this game - you included! <3

[Amodin]

This is EA, keep that in mind. They are not some C-rated developer who can't even take a loan to invest in their own game. If the money isn't there it means because they do not want to put it there, no because few players stopped subscribing.

 

^ This. Period.

 

 

Anyone care to show EA's fiscal gross profit margin?

 

No?

 

Ok, I will.

 

12 months ended Mar 2015: 3 BILLION.

 

PROFIT, not revenue. PROFIT. That is above and beyond the operational costs, which is 1/3 of this number. But again, we are talking gross profit for EA.

 

So, let's not kid ourselves. They are MORE than able to do more with this game than what they are doing.

 

Emperical data you say? BAM!

 

*micdrop*

Edited December 23, 2015 by Amodin

[branmakmuffin]

Feedback to BioWare would be sent to BioWare. This is "feedback" to other players. But you knew that before you posted.

 

I have been subscribed to this game without a single month missed since launch.

Thanks for the tl;dr up front.

Edited December 23, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[DanNV]

Well thought out, well written and on point. Well done. Now if the people Bioware calls managers will actually pay attention.

[branmakmuffin]

Well thought out, well written and on point. Well done. Now if the people Bioware calls managers will actually pay attention.

Pay attention to what? The latest "I'm a founder so pay attention to my rant" post?

[Colow_Leper]

Pay attention to what? The latest "I'm a founder so pay attention to my rant" post?

 

Nope - firstly it's more of a "I'm not new to this game and kicking up a fuss - I've been here from the start and I want the game to continue, but the way that it's going means that you've lost a loyal customer - PLEASE change direction". Secondly it's anything but a "rant" - it's actually a well thought our critique of the current state of the game.

 

There are threads of the same ilk all over these forums - a lot of them carefully thought out and well written, as opposed to the usual teenage screaming rant that normally comes out. These are players that really don't want to leave, but there's not much left for them in the game.

 

What I find so sad (and, yes, I've been here since Beta too) is how BW/EA seem to completely ignore all the worries and criticisms of their customers.

[Lord_Martheous]

Great post PennyAnn,

 

I've been a sub for only about 3 years, I guess a so-so- player but enjoyed the content. The latest 'upgrade' to the game is just bad. No, I will not do the long grinds, I don't have that kind of time to invest in this game, and I am NOT obligated to pay $15 a month to finance or support poor content. I do plan on a wait-and-see for the next couple of months to see if BW will address these problems/bugs. If not, I understand that Jedi Knight, Dark Forces 2 through Steam is having a small resurgence and has a community that is adding levels/content to it. Not the same as swtor, but a whole lot cheaper.

 

'A upgrade does not always mean better.'

[Nebdar]

Thnx PennyAnn for great post.

[ElvisLegShaker]

Well thought out. Nicely written. Valid points. I agree 100%.

 

Hopefully someone important enough will read this and pass it along.

[PennyAnn]

Feedback to BioWare would be sent to BioWare. This is "feedback" to other players. But you knew that before you posted.

 

 

Thanks for the tl;dr up front.

 

Oh, so they weren't telling the truth when they said they read their own forums for player feedback? Because it was definitely listed among the places Eric stated in the last livestream that they went to "listen to the players". That's what I knew when I posted. Thanks for posting that you didn't read. Helpful as always. Move along now, we've avoided trolls so far and I'm hoping you will just go away on your own instead of needing to be that way on yet another thread. There are plenty of others for you to choose from here... oh wait, you already have.

[Skettitangles]

Great post!

 

Nailed it perfectly!!

 

I've already left game and uninstalled and am just waiting for my remaining days to expire. I know of scores of players doing the same right now. Sadly, I don't think they guys at SWToR, BW, or EA are gonna listen or do anything about these issues. Feels like the writing is on the wall and they've already gone into "bleed it dry" shutdown mode which is why I refuse to give them another cent of my money. Just like the many server ghost towns that remain in this game right now, I suspect their offices have tumbleweeds rolling through them (even outside of holiday time) and someone left their smartphone behind, plugged in to run things on auto pilot

 

I'll miss playing this game with you Babydoll

 

Love

Sketti

[PennyAnn]

To the rest of you who have posted here, THANK YOU for keeping it civil - even if we don't agree! There are truly great people that play SWTOR, and even some that post on the forums!

 

I truly appreciate the supportive comments, although it makes me sad to see confirmed that so many people from so many different walks of the game and play styles feel the same way about even some of the things I feel are problems. I think it speaks most loudly when we speak together, when in total agreement or not, without flaming and trashing each other for the good of the game as a whole. I have always preferred Star Wars to Troll Wars. We've had enough of the trolls on these forums to last a lifetime.

 

Honestly, I hope that Eric or Tait or someone who can pass along ideas will eventually read this. I don't suspect it will happen anytime soon really, because I don't know what their vacation schedule is like, but I assume by the lack of fixes to yet another scheduled event that they have on the calendar but yet aren't truly running that the house of Austin is empty until sometime in January.

 

I'm not ranting, I'm not throwing a fit and taking my ball and going home. I'm simply putting out ideas to improve the game that I've loved and paid for without fail for 4 years (but has gotten to the point that even I, a loyal member of this community am finally done for now, and potentially for a good long while). I do NOT want to see the game fail, but I feel like the little things that I didn't like have started adding up to big things that lots of other people don't like either, and that isn't good for the future of this game.

 

I'm not predicting SWTOR's death, because I don't think that is right at hand either. I think there are plenty of people who will stay and play the game as-is for the forseeable future. I feel bad for them that they won't be getting even the quality of game that we have gotten for so many years before, and it is in their name that I post also, hoping for improvements on what little is provided now in the name of content. It's not huge, sweeping changes, just attention to the details as I see it.

 

Thank you again to all who have posted here in the name of improvement of the game in ways that would matter to ALL of us, and especially to those who can disagree civilly and have an honest discussion from your point of view without the need to feel like you have to put the ideas of others down. It is easy to call each other names or try to belittle someone to seem smarter or more righteous, but bravo for being adults and having the guts to not NEED to be right, whether we are or not. I appreciate that! It is in your names that I post seeking improvement here for those that continue on.

 

Cheers!

[PennyAnn]

Great post!

 

Nailed it perfectly!!

 

I've already left game and uninstalled and am just waiting for my remaining days to expire. I know of scores of players doing the same right now. Sadly, I don't think they guys at SWToR, BW, or EA are gonna listen or do anything about these issues. Feels like the writing is on the wall and they've already gone into "bleed it dry" shutdown mode which is why I refuse to give them another cent of my money. Just like the many server ghost towns that remain in this game right now, I suspect their offices have tumbleweeds rolling through them (even outside of holiday time) and someone left their smartphone behind, plugged in to run things on auto pilot

 

I'll miss playing this game with you Babydoll

 

Love

Sketti

 

This makes me sad! I hope you will keep in touch, my friend. I have enjoyed playing with you also, Big Boi!! You are good people.

 

xoxoxoxoxo

[TheSeventhJedi]

I think the worst part of 4.0 is all the missed opportunities. If alliance influence was legacy wide, I'd grind the snot out of it. If your choices actually mattered, I'd probably have played through KotFE with all my toons already. If there were interesting rewards in the old ops, I'd play through them with zeal. Instead they slapped a new grind on old content and seem surprised when we don't fall for it.

[PennyAnn]

I think the worst part of 4.0 is all the missed opportunities. If alliance influence was legacy wide, I'd grind the snot out of it. If your choices actually mattered, I'd probably have played through KotFE with all my toons already. If there were interesting rewards in the old ops, I'd play through them with zeal. Instead they slapped a new grind on old content and seem surprised when we don't fall for it.

 

 

I agree, but I think it's not too late! They could make it something that we'd grind, because we've been willing to do it in the past when it was worth it. That's what being an Achievement hound, a Prestige Hunter, and fighting your way through content again and again to try and beat it is all about. But it has to be rewarding enough to keep trying, and I just think they are getting lazy. Okay, it might be lack of anybody to do anything like they have in the past and not being strictly lazy, but knowing someone who helped develop 4.0 from the player's perspective with them, I'm pretty sure there are at least a few areas that they were just plain lazy about. I want them to know that we see it and want them to do better... for all our sakes.

[GalacticKegger]

Feedback to BioWare would be sent to BioWare. This is "feedback" to other players. But you knew that before you posted.

As long as dev's continue to comment in these threads there will always be hope (regardless of how slight) that a genuine and large enough message can be heard and understood. Other options include contacting Bioware via snail mail (from experience: 2 of 3 certified letters that were sent at the same time to different contacts came back signed as received ... the 3rd was delivered but never signed for), submitting an in-game support ticket (for in-game related issues), or by physically picking up the phone and speaking with a rep. Which makes posting on the forums no more or less effective than any other method of contact. Or we could wait around for a one question email survey. Edited December 23, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[KyaniteD]

Good post expressing many things that 'bug' me and my friends/guildies (i.e. - if TPTB read this: it's representative).

 

Oh, so they weren't telling the truth when they said they read their own forums for player feedback? Because it was definitely listed among the places Eric stated in the last livestream that they went to "listen to the players". That's what I knew when I posted.

 

Yeah, they specifically told us to use the forums for feedback, and I hope they will read this post. But it being holiday season and all, I still have the urge to print it and send it through snail mail.

[PennyAnn]

Good post expressing many things that 'bug' me and my friends/guildies (i.e. - if TPTB read this: it's representative).

 

 

 

Yeah, they specifically told us to use the forums for feedback, and I hope they will read this post. But it being holiday season and all, I still have the urge to print it and send it through snail mail.

 

Please do, I will do the same. I think I will repost on Reddit at the very least. Anyone else who wishes to send anything I've said here anyplace else it might be seen has my total permission to cut and paste away! I really do intend to try to get this to them, whether they will listen or not, whether they are vacationing or not... they will eventually be back. My sub will just be up by then, but I still have friends who can log on here and bump this thread if it will have any hope of ever helping.

 

Thanks again all, for the support. I do love the players of this game by and large, just not always the ones that represent the player base on the forums sometimes...

[PennyAnn]

Reposted to Reddit, via link and text. The real purpose for this is to honestly try to get feedback to the Developers from someone who has loved and played the game faithfully for a long time. Any and all efforts in that direction are appreciated. Thanks again, everyone!

[Isnogut]

Fair weather friend aye? Makes perfect sense to complain about issues and then deprive the techs of the financial resources to fix said issues. Well bio has my loyalty and the renewing 6 month sub to prove it. All who feel they need to jump ship-- feel free. I and other loyal subs will be picking up their slack in the cartel market.

I wonder how Bio earned your trust with the recent events. No, ...really, I mean it. How?!

 

If BioWare would be a supermarket you are buying all your stuff from it and half of the goods are broken, you wouldn't go buy there for a time. What is different with the service of a software company? We are here to gain a service. We pay for a service. If the service is broken, why do we throw the money out of the window? I simply see no good reason. I simply can't! BW is changing devs like hoes their underwear. How can we sympathise with the team in the first place? Major bugs are not fixed. The timetable of release is mostly delayed all the time, and most of the time BW doesn't listen to the community. -The OT's post will remain unheared by the devs.

 

Now you might wonder, why I write this but am still in the game. Well, actually I am not "in" the game for some time. Soon my monthly subcription will go off and frankly I won't resubscribe until Chapter 10. The reason ist partially similar to the reasons of the OT. But beside that it buggers me quite BW is not fixing the real problems in the game. Aside from grindig and no new content there are tons of tons of bugs who are robbing my last nerves.

[OwenBrooks]

If this thread is intended as suggestions/feedback then the suggestion forum is the best place Edited December 23, 2015 by OwenBrooks

[mpddispatch]

I'm right there with you OP. I am not a raider, but I have been here since beta and subbed since day one. I've been the leader of 2 guilds since they fixed the guild bug at launch. I was really losing interest shortly before KoTFE went live and was really excited at the prospect of the xpac getting my involved in the game again. It was fun the first couple of toons through but then I figured out how much of a grind it really is and I havent done it past the first 2 toons I created on day one of the game. So, here I am again......no interest in the game for the most part. Like I said, I dont raid on a regular basis so no new OPs dont really bother me but I DO understand why it bothers others. I like to PvP but other than some tweeks in the PvP system nothing has really changed in years. I've probably leveled 40+ toons to max level (delete and start over once I hit max on most of them obviously), all my strongholds are maxed, all the event reputation is maxed......so really what is there for me to do. I'm tired of leveling toons to KoTFE and then grinding the last few levels doing whatever since I refuse to grind through KoTFE with any more toons. I really dont understand Bioware's approach to this game anymore. I honestly think all thats left is maintaining the game simply to keep the cash cow known as the Cartel Market online. The three things everyone has complained about for years is the lack of new story, new PvP maps and new OPs. Sure, we got the new story but its nothing but simplistic combat between cutscenes that leads to a grindfest. Still have no new PvP maps or OPs yet but if their answer to those is anything like their answer to new story content it really scares me. I really do honestly think the game is losing most of its dedicated player base and being replaced by the transient player. It''s really easy to see as a guild leader. You recruit 50 people one month and at the end of the next month all but 95% of them dont even log in anymore. Unless a guild offers something unique, like a spot on a top tier raid group, they are bleeding members at a very fast pace. We have to recruit constantly just to keep 8-12 people online during peak times. So, my sub runs out it 2 weeks and I have already cancelled and removed my payment information. It's sad to leave all the friends Ive made but I just cant justify the $15 a month I'm spending right now and all I'm doing is logging in long enough to check mail and say hello to the guild.

[PennyAnn]

I'm right there with you OP. I am not a raider, but I have been here since beta and subbed since day one. I've been the leader of 2 guilds since they fixed the guild bug at launch. I was really losing interest shortly before KoTFE went live and was really excited at the prospect of the xpac getting my involved in the game again. It was fun the first couple of toons through but then I figured out how much of a grind it really is and I havent done it past the first 2 toons I created on day one of the game. So, here I am again......no interest in the game for the most part. Like I said, I dont raid on a regular basis so no new OPs dont really bother me but I DO understand why it bothers others. I like to PvP but other than some tweeks in the PvP system nothing has really changed in years. I've probably leveled 40+ toons to max level (delete and start over once I hit max on most of them obviously), all my strongholds are maxed, all the event reputation is maxed......so really what is there for me to do. I'm tired of leveling toons to KoTFE and then grinding the last few levels doing whatever since I refuse to grind through KoTFE with any more toons. I really dont understand Bioware's approach to this game anymore. I honestly think all thats left is maintaining the game simply to keep the cash cow known as the Cartel Market online. The three things everyone has complained about for years is the lack of new story, new PvP maps and new OPs. Sure, we got the new story but its nothing but simplistic combat between cutscenes that leads to a grindfest. Still have no new PvP maps or OPs yet but if their answer to those is anything like their answer to new story content it really scares me. I really do honestly think the game is losing most of its dedicated player base and being replaced by the transient player. It''s really easy to see as a guild leader. You recruit 50 people one month and at the end of the next month all but 95% of them dont even log in anymore. Unless a guild offers something unique, like a spot on a top tier raid group, they are bleeding members at a very fast pace. We have to recruit constantly just to keep 8-12 people online during peak times. So, my sub runs out it 2 weeks and I have already cancelled and removed my payment information. It's sad to leave all the friends Ive made but I just cant justify the $15 a month I'm spending right now and all I'm doing is logging in long enough to check mail and say hello to the guild.

 

Even guild with top tier raid teams are bleeding subs. My guild is a prime example, as is Dulfy's guild (she has stated that most of her guild has quit due to the colossal mistake that is NiM loot being lower tier than the featured HM drops). We at one time had 7 active raid groups that were all progression HM/NiM groups (and it wasn't that long ago). We are down to 3 groups, and many of them struggle to get 8 people online to raid anymore, and many in the guild are on multiple raid teams to cover openings. Some of the best people and players I've had the honor to play with are leaving because there is nothing to do besides repeat a one size fits all storyline, grind influence with companions and contacts that do not matter to them, and deal with bugs in every aspect of the game.

 

It's truly a downhill run at this point and it looks like we're heading for the finish line of the game that we've all known and loved for 4 years. I hope what I've posted here has any impact at all that matters, but I know better than to really put any faith in the fact that it will. Won't stop me from at least trying though!