Please keep the taint that is episode 7 away from the the old republic *spoiler*

[bigray]

I think it's pretty clear at this point, reading various interviews, that the 9 main movies are the story of the Skywalkers. This has been confirmed in interviews, even regarding the new trilogy. You can therefore expect some level of repetition across the generations, we are doomed to repeat our mistakes after all. And of course there is the overall theme of the Force pulling strings behind the scenes. The eternal struggle between good/evil. Of course you'll see repetition in that never-ending battle. It would have been nice if maybe they went with a ship instead of a death star clone for the big bad Thing that has to be destroyed. But the stakes have to be higher each time and I suppose you can only do so many things to present an intimidating threat when 2 death stars have already been destroyed.

 

I found plenty of "new" things to enjoy in TFA:

 

- No droid counterpart for BB-8. He stands on his own.

- Female and minority for the main heroes. Fairly rare for such a major franchise and a welcome change.

- female stormtroopers and commanders in high positions.

- not even a mention of Tatooine. First time in 6 movies!

- They actually killed off a character that we had become invested in over 6 movies, nobody changed their mind at the last minute this time! Not a token death either - stabbed in the heart, fell into an abyss, the planet he was on disintegrated and turned into a star. no coming back from that one!

- Bad guy looks like a normal dude for once. might hang out in jazz clubs in his spare time or perhaps likes to paint.

- the new Porkins didn't die

- Hero kicks the crap out of the bad guy in the first movie. None of this too weak, need 3 movies to train up, etc. This is as much a story of the villain's development as the hero's.

- top non-force bad guy is openly competitive with, even hostile to the Force bad guys. Oh how the reputation and influence of the force-wielding has declined over the years!

- awesome-reputation pilot (Dameron) is really actually awesome and we get to see a great example of how good he is unlike previous awesome-reputation pilot Wedge, who actually doesn't get to show us very much

- Interest in and respect, even awe, of the Force, by non-Force wielding people (Solo, Tor Lekka and Kanata).

Edited December 23, 2015 by bigray

[marcelo_sdk]

I will not read the 11 pages, I'll just comment on the tile of the topic.

 

A lot of people, even long-time fans, complained about this. Probably they went to the movie thinking that Kylo Ren is the new Darth Vader. I saw a lot of people calling him a Sith. If someone that's not a die-hard fan says this, ok, I understand he automatically links the dark side to the Sith. But people taht call themselves aficcionados and complain about this in a Star Wars forum, I really can't understand.

 

There are no active Force users on the Galaxy besides Ren and Snoke, and as I can see, Snoke didn't train him in lightsaber combat. So, Ren probably never had combat experience, Rey probably has more fighting time with that metal stick than him. And Finn surely received training with melee weapons as we see that Stormtroopers also uses them. And clearly Ren was just having fun with someone that betrayed him.

 

And if people says that the movie is that bad, a "taint" as you called it, you must really hate ESB, because a boy who had de facto no training being able to even hold out a full trained Jedi Knight and Sith Lord (even if he was clearly holding back) seems a lot more absurd to me.

[magnashear]

I didn't read all the replies either. I was just going to point out that Kylo just got shot in the gut with chewie's bowcaster. Everyone else who got shot with it in the movie pretty much got exploded. I think Rey and Finn would've had a harder time fighting against him if he wasn't so wounded.

 

One other thing . Does anybody else think they should've at least let Finn win the duel with the stormtrooper before they got temporarily captured? I thought getting his butt kicked so thoroughly by a random trooper was kind of lame.

[Pirana]

Personally, I was disappointed in TFA. To me it looked liked a combo of episodes 5 and 6. The Death Star, father theme, fallen student, reclusive Jedi Master, all repeat themes, no new content or expansion of the story imho. Even bb-8 was an updated version of rd-d2. cs_zoltan hit all the major points concerning repeat themes. Han and Chewwy were the only redeeming qualities. Leia looked like she had a plastic face. At least Luke did not fall to the dark side. Where did Snoke come from? Its only been about 30 years since RoTJ, so I would think Snoke would have been around somewhere at that time. Snoke / Ren don't seem to be on par with Palpatine / Vader. I figured Disney would botch it and they did. Yes, this movie did introduce the new blood and maybe Snoke / Ren are not yet "all powerful evil" yet. We'll have to wait and see how JJ moves the story along.

 

Abrams has no affiliation with the upcoming SW movies.

 

On topic: At least the movie is staying on par with SWTOR in terms of redundancy.

 

[HyperLethalViper]

Not really understanding the complaints here. Ren was conflicted, had not been fully trained, had just been gut shot by a weapon that literally sent stormtroopers flying through the air earlier in the movie, and on top of that was not actually trying to kill Rey during the fight. He actually had to start punching himself in his wound to keep going (Which btw was an awesome representation of the Dark Side). I think its safe to say he wasn't at 100%.

 

And this being reminiscent of ANH is obviously intentional. This movie brought back to the galaxy we all know and basically assured us it would be nothing like the prequels. The story will branch into new and original directions in the next two movies.

Edited December 24, 2015 by HyperLethalViper

[Rhyltran]

Abrams has no affiliation with the upcoming SW movies.

 

On topic: At least the movie is staying on par with SWTOR in terms of redundancy.

 

 

He's a producer/executive producer for the next movie but you're right not a director or writer.

[Nerithiel]

Abrams has no affiliation with the upcoming SW movies.

 

On topic: At least the movie is staying on par with SWTOR in terms of redundancy.

 

 

Abrams is Executive Producer oF the Rest Star Wars movies and ofc have a sum of Star Trek and he is the Producer of Future Star Trek Movies aswell.

Star Trek Fans are less forgiving than the Star Wars ones im suprised he still in one piece after Into The Darkness fiasco

Edited December 26, 2015 by Nerithiel

[BrianDavion]

Abrams is Executive Producer oF the Rest Star Wars movies and ofc have a sum of Star Trek and he is the Producer of Future Star Trek Movies aswell.

Star Trek Fans are less forgiving than the Star Wars ones im suprised he still in one piece after Into The Darkness fiasco

 

less forgiving? trek fans have put up with ****** movies and TV series for years and still proclaim the people who did them are "geniuses" SW fans meanwhile turn on george lucas because they didn't like Jar Jar

[SaibotLiu]

SW fans meanwhile turn on george lucas because they didn't like Jar Jar

 

And they didn't like:

Stale boring dialogue.

Incoherent plot.

Throw away bad guys that existed for absolutely no reason.

The name 'Ani'.

Explaining the force as super space AIDS.

 

I'm sure there's more, but it was a lot more than just Jar Jar. The fact that people went to see the new film in such record numbers would not have been possible with this guy still running the show.

[Pirana]

Abrams is Executive Producer oF the Rest Star Wars movies and ofc have a sum of Star Trek and he is the Producer of Future Star Trek Movies aswell.

Star Trek Fans are less forgiving than the Star Wars ones im suprised he still in one piece after Into The Darkness fiasco

 

Abrams will have little to no say as to what occurs in next the movie(s).

Edited December 26, 2015 by Pirana

[Nerithiel]

However, it’s worth noting that despite not being front and centre as the director of Episode VIII, Abrams will still be producing both Episode VIII and Episode IX. This should offer some small level of comfort for those fans who feel that the series could use Abrams’ touch to keep things in check.

 

source http://screenrant.com/star-wars-8-script-abrams-johnson/

[SithKoriandr]

I'm nervous about the writer/director of Looper being the writer/director of the next SW :/ I know, 93% rating, but I saw the plot holes right away and didn't think it was all that great.

[t-darko]

"Activating the lightsaber usually required a button of some sort.[3] A blade power adjustment knob was sometimes installed to allow the wielder to vary the power of the blade.[40] A discharge energy cell could also be installed to increase a lightsaber's power output.[20]" Straight out of EU legend so it would seem that the OP's problem with Finn being able to wield the Skywalker lightsaber is a bit misplaced and born from a certain lack of knowledge as how this is possible, hence, very hard to really take serious. As it would seem that Abrams is more up to speed as to what the EU says about light sabers.

 

As for Finn to be Force sensitive, I think not. There isn't a single scene that would be implied. And as explained not necessary for wielding the Light saber.

 

As for the issue of TFA being a reboot, well, that was never a secret and for one to be to miss for example this in the pretalks must really revisit his claim to be a hardcore Star Wars fan.

[Frenesi]

"Activating the lightsaber usually required a button of some sort.[3] A blade power adjustment knob was sometimes installed to allow the wielder to vary the power of the blade.[40] A discharge energy cell could also be installed to increase a lightsaber's power output.[20]" Straight out of EU legend so it would seem that the OP's problem with Finn being able to wield the Skywalker lightsaber is a bit misplaced and born from a certain lack of knowledge as how this is possible, hence, very hard to really take serious. As it would seem that Abrams is more up to speed as to what the EU says about light sabers.

 

As for Finn to be Force sensitive, I think not. There isn't a single scene that would be implied. And as explained not necessary for wielding the Light saber.

 

As for the issue of TFA being a reboot, well, that was never a secret and for one to be to miss for example this in the pretalks must really revisit his claim to be a hardcore Star Wars fan.

 

Have you seen the movie? Not a single scene? The entire Falcon chase screams "Hey, look, we are new jedi!!!".

 

C'mon people. If you try to defend not-so-good movie, at least pay proper attention to the details.

[SaibotLiu]

The entire Falcon chase screams "Hey, look, we are new jedi!!!".

 

Having new Jedi in a new Star wars movie, the horror!!!

 

There's nothing in the movie to suggest Finn is force sensitive. He has been trained from birth to be a soldier, that kinda explains why he is competent at combat.

 

And possibly, more training in combat than Kylo Ren, since we love to whinge about him nicking an already wounded force adept so much. As for Kylo's skills as a whole, it's obvious he is strong in using force abilities. That =/= being good at lightsaber combat, those are two different disciplines. For all we know, Kylo has never fought another person using a lightsaber before, since they seem to be fairly rare during this time period. That hardly makes one an expert.

Edited December 27, 2015 by SaibotLiu

[DarthDymond]

Saw it a second time, paid more attention to the choreography of the fight - even injured by the bowcaster, Ren is absolutely toying with Finn throughout their fight, and still maintaining a solid upper-hand, while Finn is giving it his all. Ren is clearly no master duelist, but you can tell he's more familiar with the weapon.

 

The instant Finn gets in a single hit (fueled by an adrenaline surge or just luck after Ren burns him with the crossguard vent), Ren responds by disarming and cutting him down with his very next move.

[t-darko]

Have you seen the movie? Not a single scene? The entire Falcon chase screams "Hey, look, we are new jedi!!!".

 

C'mon people. If you try to defend not-so-good movie, at least pay proper attention to the details.

 

We're dropping the light saber discussion I take it?!

 

And you're not confusing Finn with Rey? or somehow just mash them together in your argument? Cos as I'm paying attention to detail the twos fight with Kylo have two very different endings and build ups through the whole movie!

 

But to cut to the chase; I take it that you don't have a problem with the following; "your father was the greatest pilot in the Galaxy" >>> "I used to bullseye womp rats with my T-16 back home . . . " >>>> full fledged fighter pilot that blows up the Death Star !!?

 

If I chose to put on my "not realistic, isn't this a documentary I'm watching"-glasses, I've started there and say W00t, but as I chose to buy in to the concept I'd say nothing out of the ordinary is happening in TFA that the others movies OR tv shows, for that matter, is littered with.

 

Either you chose to buy the concept or you don't . . .

[Frenesi]

We're dropping the light saber discussion I take it?!

 

And you're not confusing Finn with Rey? or somehow just mash them together in your argument? Cos as I'm paying attention to detail the twos fight with Kylo have two very different endings and build ups through the whole movie!

 

But to cut to the chase; I take it that you don't have a problem with the following; "your father was the greatest pilot in the Galaxy" >>> "I used to bullseye womp rats with my T-16 back home . . . " >>>> full fledged fighter pilot that blows up the Death Star !!?

 

If I chose to put on my "not realistic, isn't this a documentary I'm watching"-glasses, I've started there and say W00t, but as I chose to buy in to the concept I'd say nothing out of the ordinary is happening in TFA that the others movies OR tv shows, for that matter, is littered with.

 

Either you chose to buy the concept or you don't . . .

 

Well, the entire "blow up death star" was force manifestation, at least first time. And engeneering stupidity, but that's different question. One could argue Luke's piloting skills are force-based as well. "There is no such thing as luck" actually covers a lot of retarded moments in OT and PT.

 

In Ep.7, I never had problem with Finn using lightsaber. He was clumsy enough for trooper with some melee training. As for the scene - no, I'm not mixing it. Think for a moment what happened: ground trooper (and janitor), who barely knows how to shoot with ship weapons, takes out squadron of trained fighter pilots, working in perfect tandem with the girl. So perfect, that it leads to engine-jam shot, that takes out last fighter.

 

Have you seen how shocked they both were that they managed to pull it off? Finn is no less surprised by his marksman skills than Ray by her piloting ones. Either Ray is so powerful she can influence "luck" of people around her, or Finn showed some first-grade force using.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Frenesi

[ConVallian]

People who consistently bash Kylo Ren for being "weak" in this movie fail to realize this new saga is just as much about his development as it is Rey and Finn's. And the lightsaber combat in this movie is totally believable. I mean Kylo was probably taught how to use a lightsaber from Luke who basically made up his style as he went along with mimicking Vader's moves. So its natural to think Kylo's sword skills are sub-par compared to others we have seen , because like Luke his style is his own. The last practitioners of the "seven lightsaber forms" died with Vader and Sidious. To me it would've been more unbelievable if Kylo Ren was pulling off Makashi style bladework than it would losing to a "scavanger". He's NOT sith guys. The movie made it plainly clear he is at war with himself, he is "trying" to be of the Darkside. Adam Driver even said he is more like a religious fanatic than he is a "villain". His control of the Force is still impressive. Everything he has done is still amazing even by the other movies standards. Give Kylo time, at the end of this movie it is implied he has fully given himself to the darkside as his Master said at the end he is ready for his true training or is ready to complete his training(whichever line he said). So by 8 we will probably see a Kylo who is over his past and has become an agent of the darkside like his grandfather. i.e. much more menacing and powerful.

 

As for Rey's force abilities. The Force is not magic, its not ki that you need years of training before you can use it. The Force "Awakened" in Rey. The Force was guiding her much like it did luke in ep 4. If you open yourself up to the Force it will guide you. Much like how rey resisted ren's mind probing, the force was guiding her protecting her, the mind trick, the force was guiding her, plus even old Ben said the mind trick was one of the most simple force techniques. We are shown an aspect of the Force that was shown in the OT. Rey succeeded because once she opened up to the force she let it guide her and flow through her. "do or do not,there is no" and Rey did. The only difference in Rey and Luke at their first stages of using the force is luke was not a fighter and Rey on the other hand has melee experience. So there s my two cents

Edited December 27, 2015 by ConVallian

[t-darko]

Have you seen how shocked they both were that they managed to pull it off? Finn is no less surprised by his marksman skills than Ray by her piloting ones. Either Ray is so powerful she can influence "luck" of people around her, or Finn showed some first-grade force using.

 

I noticed that one, and so did you apparently, so what's your problem? You have no qualms with the Farmhand without any military basic training blowing up the Death Star while having a "force manifestation". And IF as you say Finn is Force sensitive, what is so strange about him having one as well, while fending for his life?

 

And as for Reys and Finns, if we go along with your reasoning, awakening, well it's not unpresidented IF we chose to use the EU as a crossreference; "Sunrider reluctantly retrieved Andur's fallen lightsaber and attacked the criminals,". Nomi, having no apparent affiliation with the force reluctantly becomes a Jedi and later GrandMaster of the order.

 

I feel you're a bit inconsistent in your reasoning . . .

Edited December 27, 2015 by t-darko

[Frenesi]

I noticed that one, and so did you apparently, so what's your problem? You have no qualms with the Farmhand without any military basic training blowing up the Death Star while having a "force manifestation". And IF as you say Finn is Force sensitive, what is so strange about him having one as well, while fending for his life?

 

-snip-

 

I feel you're a bit inconsistent in your reasoning . . .

 

I feel we are arguing about slightly different things

 

 

As for Finn to be Force sensitive, I think not. There isn't a single scene that would be implied. And as explained not necessary for wielding the Light saber.

 

I was referring to this particular part. While there are no facts supporting the claim of Finn's force-sensetivity, I would be extremely surprised if he wouldn't end up as such. That would go against too many cinematography and storytelling rules

 

As I said, I don't have problems with his skill-set. If anything, he was the most realistic character in that regard, unlike some particular girls and whiny non-darths.

 

You sure you aren't confusing me with somebody else?

Edited December 27, 2015 by Frenesi

[Esron]

"OMG Ren did this, Finn did that !!! NO WAY he would be able to do that NO WAY I SAY!!!"

etc

etc

etc

 

To all you people discussing here, your forgetting the most important fact of them all.... there really is no sound in space or gravity to make fighter planes act like they do in these movies.... Think about that next time you see a star wars movie

 

Now im off to enjoy the entire series once again !

 

Oh and btw

I just watched a kid with less training than a padawan, go toe to toe and win against a fully trained Dark jedi...

Riiiight so thats why snoke tells the imp to bring Ren, who was shot by a bowcaster, and hit with a saber, so he can complette his training near the end of the movie....

Edited December 28, 2015 by Esron

[Frenesi]

Riiiight so thats why snoke tells the imp to bring Ren, who was shot by a bowcaster, and hit with a saber, so he can complette his training near the end of the movie....

 

That doesn't excuse him being absolute joke of a villain. His behavior, paired with his *********** face, made it impossible for me to ever take this character seriously. He isn't menacing in a slightest. He is incompetent - and that's the worst kind of villain there could possibly be

[ConVallian]

That doesn't excuse him being absolute joke of a villain. His behavior, paired with his *********** face, made it impossible for me to ever take this character seriously. He isn't menacing in a slightest. He is incompetent - and that's the worst kind of villain there could possibly be

 

Give him time.. wait to see how the trilogy plays out then judge him. Anakin was no different than kylo, he was whiny and always complaining but look at the ****** he became. He's still learning wait and see what happens

[Audoucet]

That doesn't excuse him being absolute joke of a villain. His behavior, paired with his *********** face, made it impossible for me to ever take this character seriously. He isn't menacing in a slightest. He is incompetent - and that's the worst kind of villain there could possibly be

 

I love him because, of his weakness.

 

It is something new to actually witness the progression of a dark Jedi. Vader was already amongst the 5 most accomplished Jedi in history, we just saw him becoming evil, but not becoming a powerful villain. He was already powerful.

 

What we are looking at is a character who is not yet, the great villain : it's what he aspires to. Is he weak ? Geez, the guy can froze light... He is one of the most powerful things we have ever seen, but it is raw, undecided power. He isn't even yet completely corrupt, at the beginning of the movie. But he obviously has very basic knowledge of saber duel. He obviously never actually fought any serious force user. He just murdered a bunch of young padawans in training, and a lot of villagers and maybe republic troopers. We probably saw him trying to defend his life against a light sabre for real, for the first time. And he lost. With a blaster wound to the side (anybody else would be dead). Against an obviously very, very powerful girl, who has the advantage of being obviously naturally very very calm. And had probably as much experience in hand to hand combat as he, taking into account her skill with a staff.

 

I mean, I'm not going to argue you know, I don't see any point. But for me, Kylo Ren was the best thing in this movie. And even the actor, I think it was an incredible choice. He actually looks like a real person, and not some random American Hollywood face.