Addons and Mods

[Lord_Itharius]

This game does need mods, no if ands or buts about it, as well as combat parsing.

 

These things have to find their way into the game in the next few months if Bioware wants to keep my subscription, since I need a way to test my dps as well as the ability to modify my UI, which is currently atrocious.

 

Also, I'd like the ability to create ingame macros, since rotating two relics and my combat adrenal gets rather tedious.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Lord_Itharius

[Elog]

I never stared at my UI when Raiding. Designing a proper UI that gives you all the information you need at a single glance is important.

 

I played Demonology - I had a variable Meta CD, trinket ICDs, multiple procs, 3 DoTs, multiple other DPS cooldowns. I spent 99% of my time watching the actual encounter, not my UI.

 

If you were staring at your UI too much, your UI was bad. Like the current SWTOR UI is bad.

 

You still miss the point. Modding/add-ons is not only about looks - it adds functionality. That functionality makes the game easier (why on earth would it otherwise be functionality?). Once encounters are balanced around the assumption that people have that functionality the add-ons become a must.

 

Now - when it comes to my own stance I would like the following:

 

- Scalable and movable UI down to its smallets elements (action bars, unit frames, buffs/debuffs, cast bar)

- Combat log with the possibility for in-game parsing

 

What I do not want to see:

 

- APIs that allow additional elements with timers/conditionals on the screen (this enables aura, DBM etc)

- Macros that allows conditionals (e.g. if behind A otherwise B)

 

So yes - I would like an API set but I want it to be much more resticted than in WoW.

[Lord_Itharius]

You get forced to use them when addons make the game easier. Devs then make the game harder to compensate for the addons. Which is exactly what happened in WoW.

WoW got easier, not harder. Add-ons existed since early into Molten Core in vanilla WoW. I remember using DBM and recount on Ragnaros.

 

They nerfed the mechanics and overall difficulty of the game near the end of WOTLK to appease the droves of casual players, many of which didn't even use add-ons.

[Lord_Itharius]

What I do not want to see:

 

- APIs that allow additional elements with timers/conditionals on the screen (this enables aura, DBM etc)

- Macros that allows conditionals (e.g. if behind A otherwise B)

Why not? The current UI does a horrible job of telling you which debuffs you have up on the enemy. It makes playing a DoT-based class more difficult to play than it has to be. I like all my major DoTs to be very prominently displayed on the target so that I know when a certain ability expires. ATM, many damage over time effects don't even have their own icons, let alone timer durations. Every one of my dots as Vengeance has the same exact icon, the only way I'm able to tell whether I have all my dots on the target is to use my shatter/impale/force scream abilities immediately when they come off cooldown. This causes some dots to refresh earlier than they have to, decreasing my effective dps all because the interface is cryptic.

[ajjw]

Now - when it comes to my own stance I would like the following:

 

So yes - I would like an API set but I want it to be much more resticted than in WoW.

I would be fine with a restricted API, so long as it allowed me to fully customise the current UI while still only showing the same amount of info. To do this they would have to not allow AddOns to register for combat log events and force us to use their standard DPS meter but that's fine.

 

I want to be able to design my own unit frames (I hate all the pointless artwork that uses up like 60% of the stock UI) and design my own action bars (a la Bartender, Dominos etc).

 

What I really want is to create multiple Buff/Debuff anchors with filters for each. Important procs on one anchor nice and big, standard buffs small up in a corner, combat buffs such as bubbles on another anchor, etc.

 

In this way, only info shown in the stock UI is available, but is reshaped, sized, positioned etc to my liking.

 

I'd be 100% fine with that.

[Elog]

Why not? The current UI does a horrible job of telling you which debuffs you have up on the enemy. It makes playing a DoT-based class more difficult to play than it has to be. I like all my major DoTs to be very prominently displayed on the target so that I know when a certain ability expires. ATM, many damage over time effects don't even have their own icons, let alone timer durations. Every one of my dots as Vengeance has the same exact icon, the only way I'm able to tell whether I have all my dots on the target is to use my shatter/impale/force scream abilities immediately when they come off cooldown. This causes some dots to refresh earlier than they have to, decreasing my effective dps all because the interface is cryptic.

 

I am fine with being able to scale, move and filter the current buff/debuff bars - so the same information that is on the screen right now but formatted in the way I want. Would that not achieve what you describe above?

[Xcore]

I have not chimed into this at all but my quick thoughts are: Not allowing Addons and the Modding Community into your game is complete stifling of creative progress and effectually a very "Arrogant" suicide in the long term.

 

If not suicide at the very least it'll impede from ever achieving or exceeding full potential.

 

It takes arrogance believing that one can control the evolution just as well solo and "In-House" as with the help of "millions" of minds/ideas etc.

 

 

However, before releasing API the game itself needs serious fixing (before people can fiddle with it at all)... its too "unstable" for this to happen.

[HeeroX]

I have not chimed into this at all but my quick thoughts are: Not allowing Addons and the Modding Community into your game is complete stifling of creative progress and effectually a very "Arrogant" suicide in the long term.

 

If not suicide at the very least it'll impede from ever achieving or exceeding full potential.

 

It takes arrogance believing that one can control the evolution just as well solo and "In-House" as with the help of "millions" of minds/ideas etc.

 

 

However, before releasing API the game itself needs serious fixing (before people can fiddle with it at all)... its too "unstable" for this to happen.

 

Not having addon support is a major reason I will consider quitting after a month or two maybe.

[Elog]

In this way, only info shown in the stock UI is available, but is reshaped, sized, positioned etc to my liking.

 

I'd be 100% fine with that.

 

It sounds like we are in basic agreement

[ajjw]

It sounds like we are in basic agreement

Aye

[Daisai]

Does anyone know if when or at all Swtor will allow user mods and add-ons. I really think that the game wil benefit from user add-ons and mods. Healing will be easier; DPS meters are useful in raids and hardmode flash points.

 

 

healing will be easier : thats a l2p issue on your side.

 

I do agree with dps meters though to check on which build would be best.

Threat meters are not really a important thing for proper raiders.

[Truga]

As I've said in multiple threads, I'm fine with "add-ons" for UI customization. Honestly, just give us buff bars and debuff bars, allow us to use filters on them, and allow us to move and scale the UI and we're basically set.

 

As Elog has pointed out, though, having silly mods that don't provide anything over just simply telling you things you should be watching out for in the game, that's a no-no. We currently have all the info we need on our UI, it's just that it's terribly represented. Fix that, and we're good to go.

[ckoneful]

I swear most of the people screaming for NO ADDONS have never used them before and have no idea what they actually are.

[Elog]

I have not chimed into this at all but my quick thoughts are: Not allowing Addons and the Modding Community into your game is complete stifling of creative progress and effectually a very "Arrogant" suicide in the long term.

 

They will release APIs of some sort - the key question is not if but what type. And there it seems the community is quite split.

 

However, I do agree with you that this is something that can come in the second wave and not the first (responsiveness, high res textures, chat bugs and quest bugs should be wave one IMO).

Edited December 30, 2011 by Elog

[ajjw]

I swear most of the people screaming for NO ADDONS have never used them before and have no idea what they actually are.

A large majority of the users on this forum have such levels of ignorance and naivety that one could genuinely lose their faith in humanity. Apparently macros in WoW allow you to completely automate your character, AddOns are full of trojans & also automate your character alongside being used to bot, etc.

 

[Angrykorean]

BW definitely needs to add A LOT more functionality to their current UI and customization options. But I also think it should be made by BW only so that the options/customizations can be universal to everyone.

 

Take a game like WoW for instance that has a numerous amount of add-ons and mods. It came to the point where players weren't even playing themselves. The add-ons were telling them what to do and when to do it. There's also a reason why add-ons were not allowed in competitive arena tournaments, the mods for arena were almost as if you were cheating.

 

My biggest concerns with the current UI would be

-Hard to track your buffs/debuffs. Especially debuffs on enemies during a group/ops setting.

-Action bar placement is horrible. I put all my most-used cooldowns somewhere easy to see but there are still cooldowns I have to track off to the sides. It's not pleasant to have to look all around your screen for certain cooldowns.

[Maigrey]

Addons ruined WoW. They made the game too easy. But of course, you're an MMO player and you want everything handed to you on a silver platter.

 

Add-Ons allowed WoW to create more interesting and challenging fights, ever notice how bland almost all of the Vanilla fights are in WoW, and how cool the fights get as they progress.

 

They wouldnt be able to create a fight like Lich King and expect 90% of the guilds that killed him while relavent (~10% of all players) to have been able to do so without addons.

 

Heck I couldn't imagine doing hardmode professor putricide without addons, or most of the fights in WotLK.

 

People that are against addons and macros are should also be against looking up strats and using VOIP, or they are complete hyporcits.

 

I absolutly loved macros, I had a full set of macros and none of them had anything to do with rotations, heck I have no idea how or why you would macro a rotation, it would be complete fail.

 

my favorite macro was a simple one for my warrior

 

it did the following, charged an enemy if I had an enemy targeted and charge was off CD, else intercept the enemy, if target is an ally cast intervene, if Shift is held down while activating and the target is an enemy, cast heroic throw while performing the charge/intercept.

 

how is that bad, it lets me put 3-4 spells in one slot on my toolbar, the macro isn't playing the game for me.

[ajjw]

Take a game like WoW for instance that has a numerous amount of add-ons and mods. It came to the point where players weren't even playing themselves. The add-ons were telling them what to do and when to do it.

Erm, no.

[Truga]

Erm, no.

 

DBM called, says hi.

[Rathelm]

DBM called, says hi.

 

You realize pretty much everything DBM does is now built into the standard UI. The only mod that was a game changer was the one that actually drew circles and stuff on the ground and players to visually show where AoEs were and what not. That got a fairly significant change to LUA.

[HalusW]

That's the typical ignorance we get on this subject right now, no offence.

Just because WoW allowed a wide variety of addons doesn't mean that all addons are bad.

Bioware can limit the variety if they want to, and they sure should as well. Automation should be limited to an absolute minimum, if not inexistent.

 

Bioware has restricted addons as they saw fit. When addons are used to complete Flashpoints....Flashpoints will be balanced accordingly. Making them mandatory not optional tools. If the game needs changes, make the changes to the game. Like the galactic market interface, it's horrible and needs to be improved.

[ajjw]

DBM called, says hi.

You realize pretty much everything DBM does is now built into the standard UI. The only mod that was a game changer was the one that actually drew circles and stuff on the ground and players to visually show where AoEs were and what not. That got a fairly significant change to LUA.

As above poster said, the only AddOn that overstepped the bounds was AVR (Augmented Virtual Reality). Blizzard very quickly broke it by removing the functions it required from the API.

 

It's debatable whether Boss Timers trivialised the game. I'd argue no.

[Maigrey]

As above poster said, the only AddOn that overstepped the bounds was AVR (Augmented Virtual Reality). Blizzard very quickly broke it by removing the functions it required from the API.

 

It's debatable whether Boss Timers trivialised the game. I'd argue no.

 

they didnt trivialize the game, they allowed blizzard to make more interesting fights.

[Elog]

it did the following, charged an enemy if I had an enemy targeted and charge was off CD, else intercept the enemy, if target is an ally cast intervene, if Shift is held down while activating and the target is an enemy, cast heroic throw while performing the charge/intercept.

 

It is a preference but the above macro is exactly the type that I dislike. It does make small decisions for the player and hence I am personally against them.

[gnuheikes]

I wanna addons. The current UI is bad.