TarkaBear Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 As stated on the reddit subforums for SWTOR he's moving to another Bioware Title, Mass Effect Andromeda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Are you a close personal friend? I bet he finds another job and just keeps livin'. L-I-V-I-N Livin'. that's what i love about these high school girls man, i keep getting older but they stay the same age but seriously mathew mcconaughey told me he got moved to the mass effect project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinarmikalsen Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 good now we maybe wont have terrible bugs that took ages to fix in our new raids. like nim gear not dropping 224 100% horrible scaled operations. compare Eternity Vault & Karaga Palace to Explosive Conflict for example. trash like outside underlurker entrance who just stand there like zombies when you run beside them not attacking. underlurker cross who was bugged and off screen for some people 50% of the time (when it was at its worst) removing sm mechanics on some bosses in 4.0 list goes on hope we get better people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 This pretty much confirms an idea I had initially thought exaggerated a tad, or that SWTOR was at least an exception.. It is noted here http://www.vg247.com/2015/03/18/shadow-realms-cancellation-makes-a-lot-of-sense/ Now let's look at the last couple years. Warhammer shut down, UO and DAOC given to an independent but partnered company. Games in development Shadow Realms, Dawngate, Command and Conquer and more canceled...Victory Games itself shuddered as was Maxis. In essence they are all in with their AAA Marquee Console titles... Mass Effect, DA, Battle Front, Medal of Honor, their EA Sports titles etc. If SWTOR here didn't have the "SW" in front of it it too may well have been shut down. Instead we get an experiment. They put more man power into Mass Effect, clearly marching to EA's drum, and hope that the new movie will bring enough new players to make up for the ones they KNOW will be leaving due to the lack of new content. The only question really is how many? Then, since you did not let the employees go (apparently much of his team went with him) IF things start to go sideways its simply a matter of telling them to start logging back into the SWTOR development software. All of this while being able to do it on a budget that tbh is no where near what SoR was... And before anyone says "that's not true" Ohlen himself said that the cut scenes and voice acting equated to the smallest costs of the game's development. The problem is this, the people they lose over this will not be coming back this time I fear. They have simply been burned to badly to come back. Because of this I would suspect that the path of the game in the future is the following. They know there is a hardcore minority, no smaller or less important mind you than any other minority that makes up any MMORPG, who simply wants story, any story. They also know there is another, small minority, who just because they love the IP would stay if you kicked them in the junk every 15 minutes and thank you for it to boot. Nothing against SW/BW fans there, I know people who are like this in any number of games, heck I was like that in EQ2 myself for the longest time. If they slash the budget enough (which they clearly have) and can figure out a way to keep the above subscribing with enough reliability, they can make a reasonable ROI on the cheap and ultimately that is what these games are about. I have always said it doesn't matter if you have millions of players like WoW or only in the score of thousands. All that matters is that matters is that makes *X $ in comparison to the amount of money it cost to maintain the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 A I bet he finds another job and just keeps livin'. Why would he need to find another job when he still has one, at BW Montreal working on Mass Effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Linky links reddit link I can't say that I'm surprised. This is indeed sad and hilarious. OP could you add text he transferred to the first post for the people who don't bother to actually read the links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 This pretty much confirms an idea I had initially thought exaggerated a tad, or that SWTOR was at least an exception.. It is noted here http://www.vg247.com/2015/03/18/shadow-realms-cancellation-makes-a-lot-of-sense/ Now let's look at the last couple years. Warhammer shut down, UO and DAOC given to an independent but partnered company. Games in development Shadow Realms, Dawngate, Command and Conquer and more canceled...Victory Games itself shuddered as was Maxis. In essence they are all in with their AAA Marquee Console titles... Mass Effect, DA, Battle Front, Medal of Honor, their EA Sports titles etc. If SWTOR here didn't have the "SW" in front of it it too may well have been shut down. Instead we get an experiment. They put more man power into Mass Effect, clearly marching to EA's drum, and hope that the new movie will bring enough new players to make up for the ones they KNOW will be leaving due to the lack of new content. The only question really is how many? Then, since you did not let the employees go (apparently much of his team went with him) IF things start to go sideways its simply a matter of telling them to start logging back into the SWTOR development software. All of this while being able to do it on a budget that tbh is no where near what SoR was... And before anyone says "that's not true" Ohlen himself said that the cut scenes and voice acting equated to the smallest costs of the game's development. The problem is this, the people they lose over this will not be coming back this time I fear. They have simply been burned to badly to come back. Because of this I would suspect that the path of the game in the future is the following. They know there is a hardcore minority, no smaller or less important mind you than any other minority that makes up any MMORPG, who simply wants story, any story. They also know there is another, small minority, who just because they love the IP would stay if you kicked them in the junk every 15 minutes and thank you for it to boot. Nothing against SW/BW fans there, I know people who are like this in any number of games, heck I was like that in EQ2 myself for the longest time. If they slash the budget enough (which they clearly have) and can figure out a way to keep the above subscribing with enough reliability, they can make a reasonable ROI on the cheap and ultimately that is what these games are about. I have always said it doesn't matter if you have millions of players like WoW or only in the score of thousands. All that matters is that matters is that makes *X $ in comparison to the amount of money it cost to maintain the game. you're making a giant error here in assuming the people who play for the story etc are the minority. in every MMO ever the Raiders are the minority. PVPers in SWTOR are a minority, BW's not focusing on a small easy to please minority by moving away from them, they're focusing on the core fanbase. will this hurt the raid communities? unfortunatly yes. but I'm not sure focusing on story is gonna be the "busniess disaster" people claim. armchair MMO critics (as to which we all are) have a tendancy to view the game and it's community through their own lens. Raiders think everyone wants to raid and won't play with out em. PVPers think the same, story fans think the same etc. I mean it's quite possiable a majority of active subs do not HAVE a max level character in this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 you're making a giant error here in assuming the people who play for the story etc are the minority. in every MMO ever the Raiders are the minority. PVPers in SWTOR are a minority, BW's not focusing on a small easy to please minority by moving away from them, they're focusing on the core fanbase. will this hurt the raid communities? unfortunatly yes. but I'm not sure focusing on story is gonna be the "busniess disaster" people claim. armchair MMO critics (as to which we all are) have a tendancy to view the game and it's community through their own lens. Raiders think everyone wants to raid and won't play with out em. PVPers think the same, story fans think the same etc. I mean it's quite possiable a majority of active subs do not HAVE a max level character in this game You are thebone making false assumptions sir. First these games are all made up of different sized minorities. You are the one making the error if you think the solo story player who could careless about new/repeatable, content is more than 50% of the player base. Are raiders a minority too? Yep. It's only a matter of different sized minorities, not a majority vs minorities. Also where did I say ONLY new OPs content? No where. Please do not assume that someone is speaking from a raiders perspective, simply because they disagree with you, or just throw the trope out on reflex to create some false moral high ground, whichever the case may be. I am NOT talking about OPs, I am talking about different stories to experience, like we had 8 class stories at launch. If i had 8 stories now I woukd be fine for a bit. As it was it was almost painful to yet again to through the same story on a second toon and I could not force myself to do it on a third no matter how hard I tried. Now Oricon, SoR, Makeb, they made this bearable with new playable content. That too is lacking here. New repeatable solo/small group content, like with had with the side quests, the black hole dailies and yes FPs and OPs BUT not only them. When I note the "diehard" story player I mean the person who, and we have seen them on these forums of late, believe that having to actually spend some times soloing mobs gets in the way. Go back to the original Companion are OP or nerf thread as well as the level sync thread. Look at all of the solo story oriented people who said that the OP companions were necessary, not because it was time consuming killing the mobs in the Heroic Missions, rather because they thought it ridiculous that Mobs they had killed countless times before, sometimes as long as 4 years ago, were taking the time. If the content is "fun" a little time is rarely minded. New vs old is a part of the "fun" calculus. Another class assumption Ithink you make is assuming this expac is about any of us here. It is about attracting new players. Their plan, clearly, especially when you read comments at earnings calls, was to use the new movie to attract as many new players as possible on a restricted budget while minimizing existing player loses. The later part being a gamble. Well with the less than smooth launch and the over sell, under deliver dynamic of their marketing creating a level of angst, and animoisty towards one another, within the player base that it worked the odds against the gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabigool Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 you're making a giant error here in assuming the people who play for the story etc are the minority. in every MMO ever the Raiders are the minority. PVPers in SWTOR are a minority, BW's not focusing on a small easy to please minority by moving away from them, they're focusing on the core fanbase. will this hurt the raid communities? unfortunatly yes. but I'm not sure focusing on story is gonna be the "busniess disaster" people claim. armchair MMO critics (as to which we all are) have a tendancy to view the game and it's community through their own lens. Raiders think everyone wants to raid and won't play with out em. PVPers think the same, story fans think the same etc. I mean it's quite possiable a majority of active subs do not HAVE a max level character in this game It may be an assumption but I doubt it's erroneous. I think the assumption made most often on these forums is that anyone expressing interest in seeing actual group content in an MMO is some sort of Mountain Dew swilling hardcore type who has Zorz posters next to his PC in his mom's basement. The reality is this an MMO, and guilds are an important aspect of these types of games - and guilds need things to do together. Story is not that. Without group content, games like this will vanish. Enjoy your story, it will not be here much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) It may be an assumption but I doubt it's erroneous. I think the assumption made most often on these forums is that anyone expressing interest in seeing actual group content in an MMO is some sort of Mountain Dew swilling hardcore type who has Zorz posters next to his PC in his mom's basement. The reality is this an MMO, and guilds are an important aspect of these types of games - and guilds need things to do together. Story is not that. Without group content, games like this will vanish. Enjoy your story, it will not be here much longer. Well and like I said I am not even focused solely on group content. I spent my first year, year and half maybe doing 6 out of the 8 class stories (I could not get into the Sith Warrior story and the Smuggler one made me want to kill my kittens). The plentiful side quest and the like had me out leveling planets, I had a ball. I only ended up in a guild after one of my random flashpoint runs when people who seemed pretty cool asked if I would like to join them. Do they have "Open Ops" where anyone can sign up and participate (no set team) sure, but there are nights where we know we won't clear a zone just because we have fun together. The thing is this, the fun gets harder and harder to have when it is stuff you have dones for years straight and is made relevant by a mechanical gimmick. This is NOT limited to OPs, but to all playable content. I do not think it an assumption to say even many solo players want new content, I just think there is so much animosity between the solo player and the group player cultures in this game anymore that BOTH reflexively attack the other without looking at the big picture. As for my office, I usually have a nice glass of Jameson and over my computer desk is a Charles Russel Print... this one to be precise Edited December 12, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeqtoRDoom Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Another class assumption Ithink you make is assuming this expac is about any of us here. It is about attracting new players. Their plan, clearly, especially when you read comments at earnings calls, was to use the new movie to attract as many new players as possible on a restricted budget while minimizing existing player loses. The later part being a gamble. Well with the less than smooth launch and the over sell, under deliver dynamic of their marketing creating a level of angst, and animoisty towards one another, within the player base that it worked the odds against the gamble. Exactly, with the level sync and boosting the old ops to lvl65 its all about the new players attracted by the hype of the movies. New players will come and see that there is ton of story content, and that story is good. Then they will see there is a lot of raids and that new story comes out each month and they will be pretty hyped. They have used minimum amount of effort/money and hope the movie hype will bring new subs. Unfortunately for us old players who have experienced every content, there is nothing new. Game is pretty stale and some of us will move on because of it. I have leveled every Advanced Class, experienced every class story there is and that is only a fraction of the time I've spent in the ops and in pvp. For me this game has become boring without new pvp and pve elements. I have 17 toons and I've only managed to do KoTFE story on couple of them, first couple of times it was fun but now its extremely boring. Alliance system is interesting on the first glance but you can do it on only 1 toon since the grind is unbearable. Besides with so many companions you don't get attached to them like you did in pre-kotr era. Hemdil Tre is an exception since he talks too much and you will hate him straight away. Edited December 12, 2015 by xeqtoRDoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabigool Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 the big picture. The big picture is that since launch, this game has hemorrhaged people for 1 single reason more than any other - lack of endgame content. Yet two nights ago I was farming the best gear in the game in.... an instance I cleared in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) So who is the new raid designer? Or does this mean there won't be any new raids in SWTOR anymore? *Laughs hysterically, then starts to cry* Edited December 12, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 So who is the new raid designer? Or does this mean there won't be any new raids in SWTOR anymore? *Laughs hysterically, then starts to cry* Atm there is no such beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkaBear Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 So who is the new raid designer? Or does this mean there won't be any new raids in SWTOR anymore? *Laughs hysterically, then starts to cry* 2.1 ways to look at it. 1) Optimistic. Georgie finished the new raid(s) and as such had liberty of time to move to a side-project since it will be a year+ before the other teams have said raid(s) ready to launch in-game. 2) Pessimistic. Georgie was politely told to move to a side-project as his ideas for new raids were unwelcome in the future of SWTOR, and as such he's now working on Mass Effect Andromeda to have something to do, as the Raid Team is being shipped off to other Bioware assets. In short, for the next 12 months, there will be no raids, not even a design for one. 2.1) Realistic. Georgie was let go to fill in another Bioware position as there's no intention for a new raid for the next 12 months. After said 12 months, they will re-hire him, or others, to pick up a new raid for their next Content Cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 2.1 ways to look at it. 1) Optimistic. Georgie finished the new raid(s) and as such had liberty of time to move to a side-project since it will be a year+ before the other teams have said raid(s) ready to launch in-game. 2) Pessimistic. Georgie was politely told to move to a side-project as his ideas for new raids were unwelcome in the future of SWTOR, and as such he's now working on Mass Effect Andromeda to have something to do, as the Raid Team is being shipped off to other Bioware assets. In short, for the next 12 months, there will be no raids, not even a design for one. 2.1) Realistic. Georgie was let go to fill in another Bioware position as there's no intention for a new raid for the next 12 months. After said 12 months, they will re-hire him, or others, to pick up a new raid for their next Content Cycle. 2.1 is the answer, Eric's comment of "no comments" regarding new OvE content period pretty much puts done to that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Exactly, with the level sync and boosting the old ops to lvl65 its all about the new players attracted by the hype of the movies. New players will come and see that there is ton of story content, and that story is good. Then they will see there is a lot of raids and that new story comes out each month and they will be pretty hyped. They have used minimum amount of effort/money and hope the movie hype will bring new subs. Unfortunately for us old players who have experienced every content, there is nothing new. Game is pretty stale and some of us will move on because of it. I have leveled every Advanced Class, experienced every class story there is and that is only a fraction of the time I've spent in the ops and in pvp. For me this game has become boring without new pvp and pve elements. I have 17 toons and I've only managed to do KoTFE story on couple of them, first couple of times it was fun but now its extremely boring. Alliance system is interesting on the first glance but you can do it on only 1 toon since the grind is unbearable. Besides with so many companions you don't get attached to them like you did in pre-kotr era. Hemdil Tre is an exception since he talks too much and you will hate him straight away. Well if you like all that leveling there is always FFXIV ARR and there you do not even have to swap toons. Every class, every "job" (advanced class based on combining basic classes), every crafting skill leveled on the same character. You have, a "character" story, plus individual class stories and "job" stories. There are more solo quests than you can shake a stick at, dungeons and raids... The only issue is you have to appreciate the near Shakespearian nature of Anime story telling (and the related art design), but in terms of game play AND story, you simply do not run out of it unless you choose to (or play 24/7/) I suppose). There is always something to level, if you chose there is no "I must do this" and that leveling always has a story. Until 2 weeks ago I had not even thought about looking elsewhere. Someone on another thread said "why can't they do what FFXIV does and put in stuff for every one and make it work?" I hadn't played the game but a friend was and I asked him for one of those "recruit a friend trials.". That person was right...no one would have an excuse...story focused, joint solo/story, group or raider for criticizing the amount of content. They might not like the " style" of the art and game play but general content? Enough for every play style, maybe more for solo/story tbh. Edited December 12, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 My problem is that all this micromanagement is now gone with 4.0. I really long for the time when I could tinker around endlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsrachelm Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Well if you like all that leveling there is always FFXIV ARR and there you do not even have to swap toons. Every class, every "job" (advanced class based on combining basic classes), every crafting skill leveled on the same character. You have, a "character" story, plus individual class stories and "job" stories. There are more solo quests than you can shake a stick at, dungeons and raids... The only issue is you have to appreciate the near Shakespearian nature of Anime story telling (and the related art design), but in terms of game play AND story, you simply do not run out of it unless you choose to (or play 24/7/) I suppose). There is always something to level, if you chose there is no "I must do this" and that leveling always has a story. I just switched back to FFXIV ARR because frankly SWTOR has lost my sub loyalty now. I have like three months or so left on it before it expires completely so there's time for them to pull me back in and I hope they do but as it stands...newp. Anyway, I am loving FFXIV. Nice change in atmosphere, tbh. I like your optimism Personaly, I prefer to think that, given the almost a year old news that Mass Effect Andromeda was basically finished and the fact that why would a Mass Effect team require his specific ops and flashpoints designing skills, BW seems to be working on a new mmo, most likely mass effect mmo. So many signs (starting from the 2018 expertise "easter egg") and opinions show that swtor has about 2 years left of active online. Well, signs and opinions are all we have, BW surely can't afford to announce the year 2018 as the last swtor year, would be very bad for business. Swtor 2, probably...but this news allows to think that it's more probably mass effect mmo. They have this amazing sci-fi mass effect universe, they're not bound by any licence or lore restrictions, the possibility of it was mentioned by BW representatives officially in interviews (and each time they said it's a great idea with tons of potential, never anything like "wouldn't work, mass effect is single player experience only etc...). Well, I'd be glad to see all the experience and lessons learned from swtor implemented in mass effect mmo I would LOVE a Mass Effect MMO...as long as it is given better treatment than SWTOR was/is. Normally I am a Fantasy genre gamer but Star Wars and Mass Effect are the only two Sci-Fi ones that I really really like. Truth be told, a Mass Effect MMO (if done right) appeals to me even more than a Star Wars one for some of the very reasons you state above concerning lore, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divona Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 This is not good news for this game for sure. It also explains why Eric have no info to share regarding pve group content in 2016 first half year or longer. It is clear that there have been cuts to team size yet again. Overall i did enjoyed George work and he was really talented raid designer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celeryherring Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Exactly, with the level sync and boosting the old ops to lvl65 its all about the new players attracted by the hype of the movies. New players will come and see that there is ton of story content, and that story is good. Then they will see there is a lot of raids and that new story comes out each month and they will be pretty hyped. They have used minimum amount of effort/money and hope the movie hype will bring new subs. I'm a new player (joined this September) and that's exactly the position I find myself in. There's loads of content - good content - so I'm having a great time playing this. Dunno how many people like me they will have found, though. I can perfectly understand old-timers being frustraded, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Looks like Jesse Sky, the Creative Director, may have left as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KraytAssassin Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) Looks like Jesse Sky, the Creative Director, may have left as well. 'I'm a game developer. I have 8 years of experience in professional game design at BioWare Austin, and now I'm working on an independent project.' from his linkedin. Sad to see 2 great devs go, they delivered a lot of amazing content. Edited December 13, 2015 by KraytAssassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makillda Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Looks like Jesse Sky, the Creative Director, may have left as well. This just keeps getting better and better. It seems patently obvious that they are completely betting the farm on this SP Story subscription thing carrying the entire game from here on out. I'm thinking the warzone has been under development for a bit of time or we wouldn't be seeing that at all. It's going to be all "5 mins of active play then 15 minutes of interactive fiction" from here on out. The loss of the creative team's core is very troubling. I'd better wrap up the last two class stories I need for Legendary before my sub gets paid again. I really don't have any urge to pay a fee to play a small portion of a SP RPG every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) Am I the only person who notices that the people with the most experience and/or talent have either been transferred or been laid off? (Jesse according to linkedin is basically looking for a job). At best it is rats leaving a sinking ship... I mean seriously you go from... October 2013 – December 2015 (2 years 3 months) Directed and coordinated the vision for Star Wars: The Old Republic. Creative Director for expansion Knights of the Fallen Empire. to "currently working on an independent project?" Ummm guys, I don't know about ya'll between my wife and I we currently make amost 200k a year. Unless BW Austin is paying their directors WELL above the curve you are not leaving to work on an undefined "independent project" because you think things are all wine and roses.... mortgage or rent to pay, car payment... food other than Ramen and beer other than PBR. Just saying Edited December 13, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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