NiM Loot Issue / Update

[thebobmaster]

Probably way too late in the thread to post this and hope anybody notices, but:

 

1) NiM shouldn't have loot with stats in it, since [presumably] after completing it, since it isn't actually progression, it is the end of progression.

 

2) NiM should have cool "fluff" items that can't be obtained anywhere else.

 

As I pointed out months ago (when the original plan to rescale old NiMs was announced), the problem is that BW didn't add any new fluff to the NiMs that people beating them at 5-10 levels over intended couldn't already get.

 

If you can beat NiM with 224 gear obtained from HM, you don't need more 224 gear to drop from NiM. You need something that not everybody with 224 gear can get.

 

From what I understand (NOT a raider by any means, so correct me if I'm wrong), the problem is that running hard mode GUARANTEES a 224 drop, while running an NiM mode only gives a CHANCE at a 224 drop. In other words, the easier option gets the better loot. Which is the opposite of how it should be.

[JourrnoRush]

Come on now suddenly everybody is nim raider....jo jo dont make me laugh...

 

Lol seriously.

 

Look at some of these posters, they are the exact same ones who

 

1) Wanted companions to be OP

2) Want SF to be easier

3) Want more pve content

4) Want no pvp requirement for companion

5) Want more pvp content

6) Want less input from pvp community

 

They are just whining to whine. BW keep up the good work.

[RussellRichter]

This right here sums up my feelings about this entire thread.

 

Deleted

Edited June 6, 2019 by RussellRichter

[Simmerr]

Not one post in this entire *********** thread can understand or agree with the retarded decision made by the people in charge of this game. I think this speaks volumes about the absence of any reasonable logic behind this unacceptable loot mechanic change.

 

RIP any reason to raid in a competitive environment

RIP all the guilds that focused on being the best at a game

RIP the guilds that have spent years together and have grown very close while working on farming NiM content

RIP my subscription

Edited December 7, 2015 by Simmerr

[KeyboardNinja]

1) Wanted companions to be OP

 

Nope.

 

2) Want SF to be easier

 

Not really.

 

3) Want more pve content

 

Duh. I want more content.

 

4) Want no pvp requirement for companion

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that… Got him through valor rating. People complained about that?

 

5) Want more pvp content

 

Ditto PvE.

 

6) Want less input from pvp community

 

Huh?

 

BW keep up the good work.

 

Yeah… no.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Just when I thought EAware couldn't outdo themselves, they prove me wrong. Keep up the great work. I get more drama from this company than TnT lol. I can't wait for them to top this one.

[RussellRichter]

Not one post in this entire *********** thread can understand or agree with the retarded decision made by the people in charge of this game. I think this speaks volumes about the absence of and reasonable logic behind this unacceptable loot mechanic change.

 

RIP any reason to raid in a competitive environment

RIP all the guilds that focused on being the best at a game

RIP the guilds that have spent years together and have grown very close while working on farming NiM content

RIP my subscription

 

Oh heeeeeeeeyyyy Striker, was fun for a while feelsbadman

[EagleFive]

I agree with the majority who have already posted more thoughtful replies.

 

Making the most difficult content not drop top-tier gear is an illogical and severely flawed design philosophy, unless the goal is to drive away NiM raiders and people aspiring to that point.

 

To the people arguing something along the lines of "well if you're just doing NiM for the gear, you shouldn't be doing NiM," that is also fallacious. No one can deny that being rewarded top-tier gear is an incentive for attempting more difficult content. When you remove an incentive for doing something, you remove value from said activity and force the participants to reevaluate their own investment. For a subscription-based MMO, this investment is represented not only by the $15/mo subscription fee, but also in the time spent making connections, organizing groups, and working on endgame content.

 

By alienating this portion of end-game raiders, it sends a distinct message to all players who pay money every month to play with guilds and friends. The message is discouraging investment from the game's most loyal members, and this itself is a major red flag to the health of the community and of the game as a whole.

[dscount]

The plain and simple fact remains: NIM OP is =/= to HM OP. More DPS checks, more Mechanix, more healing and less forgiving timers on all the above. It's NOT a faceroll for quick & easy loot like most the HM's (Target) are today.

 

No new mounts or goodies have been added to NIM content. (Why I'm not sure, but it was mentioned).

 

So... WHY wouldn't NIM drop 224 every time then? Agreed that most folks can down first boss "most" the time, but let's be honest every first boss except EC (implant) drops BELT or BRACERS. Who CARES as those have been free roll for most run's nowadays. If they are looking to keep folks happy and busy for the next year of NO NEW OPS they need to do something soon.

 

Some guilds (Smaller) like to hyper-focus on certain Operations (No matter what Target might be) just to get the pattern down and/or get the Title/Achievement(s). Moving 224's into the rotation would (IMHO) encourage such playstyle more.

[JourrnoRush]

Nope.

 

 

 

Not really.

 

 

 

Duh. I want more content.

 

 

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that… Got him through valor rating. People complained about that?

 

 

 

Ditto PvE.

 

 

 

Huh?

 

 

 

Yeah… no.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with this post either. It was just an observation on SOME of these posters

 

god bless

[MarcoAnt]

If you can beat NiM with 224 gear obtained from HM, you don't need more 224 gear to drop from NiM. You need something that not everybody with 224 gear can get, not the same stuff that people with 198 (or lower) gear could get a few months ago.

 

The gear was part of that fluff. Not necessarily cause you strictly needed it to kill the stuff but cause you could get it cause you were able to kill the stuff. You may remember how of an exclusive item was Kell Dragon gear back in the days of the first round of NiMs.

 

It was nice not cause you needed Kell Dragon to kill NiM but cause you could only wear Kell Dragon if you could beat NiM.

 

Still the highest tier of gear dropping on the highest tier of content still makes sense for other reasons other than gear is fluff by itself: can help you killing the last and usually hardest bosses of that tier (within NiM, difficulty varies a lot), the next tier of Operations at launch or to put NiM on farm after you beat it the first times so you get other vanity stuff (timed runs titles, exclusive mounts, etc) after that.

 

The number of players that still go do progression for little to no reward (on gear or whatever) are very restricted, even amongst seasoned and dedicated raiders very few will still go do really challenge for no reward.

 

No exclusive gear adds up to the fact that the Operations are old themselves and that many dedicated raiders already have the titles and the achievments and the mounts from previous interations of the game. So to this they are stating and adding that it is intended the gear incentive not to be there either.

Edited December 7, 2015 by MarcoAnt

[TopAceOfEarth]

Most points have already been made:

 

- this is the worst possible comment a dev can make (relate from other devs) to the community. It's a clear slap in the face to the remaining hm / nim raiders. Combining it with nerfs for PvE classes on the same day is just another nice icing on the cake.

 

Seperate PvE and PvP balacing of classes, otherwise you'll never fix class balance.

And give rewards to players who actually want to do "harder" content - don't say highlighted hm for ops that can be 6 manned is in anyway balanced for the loot you get from it. You can do freaking KP with one tank and one healer on HM. But scrubs in full 224 still can't clear revan hm. Balancing done right. Kappa.

(this is intended to mean that kp is piss easy, not revan to hard for normal people)

Edited December 7, 2015 by TopAceOfEarth

[frennky]

Probably way too late in the thread to post this and hope anybody notices, but:

 

1) NiM shouldn't have loot with stats in it, since [presumably] after completing it, since it isn't actually progression, it is the end of progression.

 

2) NiM should have cool "fluff" items that can't be obtained anywhere else.

 

As I pointed out months ago (when the original plan to rescale old NiMs was announced), the problem is that BW didn't add any new fluff to the NiMs that people beating them at 5-10 levels over intended couldn't already get.

 

If you can beat NiM with 224 gear obtained from HM, you don't need more 224 gear to drop from NiM. You need something that not everybody with 224 gear can get, not the same stuff that people with 198 (or lower) gear could get a few months ago.

 

This is similar to what I though about at the same time when they announced no new ops, but never bothered to suggest on forums. NiM content should drop same tier as highlighted ops PLUS a chance of Legendary item (example: pieces of dread master gear like the crest) and these items should not be only nice looking but also BoL and with no durability (btw. repair costs need to be fixed). This gives some incentive to grind NiM while we wait for new ops.

 

Also, they could add more secret bosses (but please, please don't make them all the same). They don't even have to be in instances, they can be summoned like yavin boss and those are cheaper to make then ops.

[Baby-Girl]

Hey folks,

 

I have a few updates to pass on regarding the current issues with Nightmare Loot Drops. First, we discovered there is a bug with the percentage chance of a 224 rated item dropping in any of our Nightmare Operations. We plan to address this when we release Chapter 10 (Game Update 4.1) scheduled in February. If we are able to address it sooner, I’ll pass along an update.

 

Aside from that, we realized that we need to make a correction to our Operations and Flashpoints in Fallen Empire blog. Currently it states the following:

Nightmare Mode will also be available for all the Operations that had it previously, and will reward the same as the highlighted Hard Mode, as well as the unique mounts and titles available currently.

This statement is in error and needs to be corrected. When running a Nightmare Operation, there is a chance that a 224 item can drop, but it is not a guaranteed drop like the highlighted Hard Mode is. Nightmare Mode Operations will still drop their unique mounts and titles, and once fixed there is a chance to get 224 gear from them. It is by design that the best and most consistent way to gear up in Operations is to run the highlighted Hard Mode each week. Although they did certainly want to make sure there was a chance for greater reward from Nightmare!

 

We apologize for any confusion and will make sure that the blog is updated to reflect the correct information. I will pass on any further updates as I have them.

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

 

I'm sorry Eric, but it is just unacceptable to read that those folks at NiM Level have been duped by the Devs on Nim Gear. Many of these people are likely "founders" and really, they deserve better than P.R. smoke and mirrors. I know you are just the messenger here, but please, tell the devs to give their heads a shake. Making raiders wait till February so they can release a cannon that shoots snowballs, simply laughs in the face of your most faithful customer.

 

I am saddened for the raiders and very ashamed that this is the level of priority BW has placed on such an important aspect of the game.

[Baby-Girl]

This is similar to what I though about at the same time when they announced no new ops, but never bothered to suggest on forums. NiM content should drop same tier as highlighted ops PLUS a chance of Legendary item (example: pieces of dread master gear like the crest) and these items should not be only nice looking but also BoL and with no durability (btw. repair costs need to be fixed). This gives some incentive to grind NiM while we wait for new ops.

 

Also, they could add more secret bosses (but please, please don't make them all the same). They don't even have to be in instances, they can be summoned like yavin boss and those are cheaper to make then ops.

 

Fair enough, you raise a good point about alternative incentives. My argument to Eric was that they once again duped folks with terrible communication. I did not however, think of this alternative approach for loot drops. It'd be cool to have more secret "stuff" in game along with NiM only gear etc. For me, achieving some of the titles we got from some of the OPS was enough reward but I am not gear motivated.

 

However, well said. Well said indeed

Edited December 8, 2015 by Baby-Girl

[MeatbagTitan]

Honestly, I could've never thought of something as hilarious and ridiculous as this. Over the summer was already an announcement to most serious raiders "there's nothing for you here". I find the reduction of incentives for doing Nim even further disappointing and goofy.

 

Even if the line of thought is "nim is only for challenge and the couple prestige rewards (mounts, titles)". Why take away more incentives from players running content- at least have cosmetic armor shells or something else, because players naturally feel dissatisfied when they get less reward from dong old stuff we've done plenty of times before.

 

Amusing to see just how far it will take to get players to unsub. But I think the message has been made clear this summer that endgame group content interested dedicated players are not the core audience. Our subs count the same $$$ amount but we have a much peskier appetite for content. Shrug.

[xkcurtisx]

have to repost this:

 

 

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Hey folks,

 

I have a few updates to pass on regarding the current issues with Nightmare Loot Drops. First, we discovered there is a bug with the percentage chance of a 224 rated item dropping in any of our Nightmare Operations. We plan to address this when we release Chapter 10 (Game Update 4.1) scheduled in February. If we are able to address it sooner, I’ll pass along an update.

 

Aside from that, we realized that we need to make a correction to our Operations and Flashpoints in Fallen Empire blog. Currently it states the following:

Nightmare Mode will also be available for all the Operations that had it previously, and will reward the same as the highlighted Hard Mode, as well as the unique mounts and titles available currently.

 

This statement is in error and needs to be corrected. When running a Nightmare Operation, there is a chance that a 224 item can drop, but it is not a guaranteed drop like the highlighted Hard Mode is. Nightmare Mode Operations will still drop their unique mounts and titles, and once fixed there is a chance to get 224 gear from them. It is by design that the best and most consistent way to gear up in Operations is to run the highlighted Hard Mode each week. Although they did certainly want to make sure there was a chance for greater reward from Nightmare!

 

We apologize for any confusion and will make sure that the blog is updated to reflect the correct information. I will pass on any further updates as I have them.

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

 

The best is how if you go back to George's post from July 9, it now reads as

 

Quote:

Nightmare Mode will also be available for all the Operations that had it previously, they will have a chance to drop top end gear as well as all the unique mounts and titles available currently.

It seemed strange to me that I don't recall that wording, so I pulled out a few snipets of text and googled them and found a copy/paste from an old post on another site (vs. a link), and here's how that passage read:

 

Quote:

Nightmare Mode will also be available for all the Operations that had it previously, and will reward the same as the highlighted Hard Mode, as all the unique mounts and titles available currently.

The borked grammar makes it seem as if there probably some editing going on around the time of the post's release so perhaps this was an idea they were always kicking around.

[JAMESCHRIS]

Man, this is really tough to comprehend, what are they trying to do? Who are they catering to on this?

[Nomaad]

This Dev team is nothing but cancer to this community with posts like this, pls, we are not as stupid as you wish we are. Edited December 8, 2015 by Nomaad

[JourrnoRush]

NiM progression is a very small community right?

 

Maybe BW is trying to get rid of you guys? lol

Don't worry you can join the PvP crowd of step children

[RussellRichter]

Man, this is really tough to comprehend, what are they trying to do? Who are they catering to on this?

 

Deleted

Edited June 6, 2019 by RussellRichter

[Jadescythe]

Probably way too late in the thread to post this and hope anybody notices, but:

 

1) NiM shouldn't have loot with stats in it, since [presumably] after completing it, since it isn't actually progression, it is the end of progression.

 

2) NiM should have cool "fluff" items that can't be obtained anywhere else.

 

As I pointed out months ago (when the original plan to rescale old NiMs was announced), the problem is that BW didn't add any new fluff to the NiMs that people beating them at 5-10 levels over intended couldn't already get.

 

If you can beat NiM with 224 gear obtained from HM, you don't need more 224 gear to drop from NiM. You need something that not everybody with 224 gear can get, not the same stuff that people with 198 (or lower) gear could get a few months ago.

 

I agree with this.

[FerkWork]

Anyone got good recommendations for good raiding games?

[Boroth]

Hahahahahahahaha

[rasputein]

Anyone got good recommendations for good raiding games?

 

My brother used to raid like crazy in rifts, me myself I just started again in GW2, going to give that game another shot, lving up a toon atm just to relearn the game.