Too fast...

[Turshek]

Well yeah, the 2nd that WoW put in a stop my leveling "feature" low level warzones become a Twinksters paradice where level 19's would have the highest level possible gear they could and they would roflstomp everybody who dared to try to play in their private fiefdoms.

 

then Blizzard put the twinks in their own queues and pooof no more twink problem.

 

Still don't know how it is relevant, considering the PvP bolster and how anyone can send one of his lower characters BiS gear.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Turshek

[StarMagus]

Is that what they did eventually? I stopped playing low level BGs because it just wasn't fun to try to play when you had twinks with such a massive gear advantage blowing you up without any real way to fight them.

[Turshek]

Is that what they did eventually? I stopped playing low level BGs because it just wasn't fun to try to play when you had twinks with such a massive gear advantage blowing you up without any real way to fight them.

 

Yes they did and the twink queues died quickly.

 

But then they added heirlooms gear and thus only thing that mattered was if your high level character had bought the heirlooms items and sent it to your lower level, not fun for people without them.

[NRieh]

If you prefer to quest, you're still covered. Even if you level out of the area, you'll level sync down to allow you to to continue playing.

You really don't see the difference between the normal leveling and being set onto mobs that are twice as weaker, do you?

 

There's a point where 'easy' stops being fun. I could solosteamroll Esseles as a 50th just for fun. Or go visit my earliest HC. Once or twice. It could be fun, right. But I could just go on with my real-level story and progress further into expansions. That was my choice.

 

'As is', all the leveling curve is screwed like hell. It's NOT normal to get to 10lv content as a 18+, even more so - with tons of extra skills and some unscaleable 'elder' stats. It's NOT normal to oneshot your 3rd planet story-boss as a healing scoundrel (exaggeration, fine, but not by far). Not by choice, not because it's fun, but because it's the one and only possible 'balanced' game-design given to the player. It is like a penalty for doing the side-quests, HCs, space-missions, FPs, WZs even. Any activity other than speedruning through the 'purple' points on the map to the 'endgame' does not fit the current idea of 'fun'.

 

Mid-range and higher planets might have it better, but to get there one has to make it through the earlier ones. Which is really. Really-really annoying and boring.

[Morthion]

Except they don't have to do that ? All they have to do is to check if a character has a "toggle XP" buff or item and give 0 or the correct XP to the character...the same way the white acute module that existed during the 12x XP event was adding more XP or not.

 

My apologies; I got my threads confused. Side effect of missing brain cells.

[Rabenschwinge]

There's a point where 'easy' stops being fun. I could solosteamroll Esseles as a 50th just for fun. Or go visit my earliest HC. Once or twice. It could be fun, right. But I could just go on with my real-level story and progress further into expansions. That was my choice.

 

I see that the same way. But... well, I suppose Bioware's success with this strategy gives them right. At the time being there are in fact more people complaining because the level sync makes the game too hard (they only wish to fight gray mobs, or not fight at all if by any means possible) then those who wish a more challenging combat. I suppose "hard" in this context means... it takes a bit more time, because you cannot really loose. I am not sure how many groups of enemies you have to pull onto yourself until your companion can no longer heal the incoming damage faster than you have to suffer it, but it is more than two. Assuming that the player does not directly participates in the fight but leaves it to their companion.

 

Personally I think that the concept of levels in MMOs has used itself up and I greatly prefer systems that get along without character levels. The Secret World for example has a very interesting system. Unfortunately it is notoriously hard to see through between the hundreds of possibilities. (You get a stack of X, you also get a stack of Y. Every time you get a stack of Y you also get...) And it still has gear levels, thus, while your character does not have a level, the content still is categorized in levels. It's difficult to do level 6 missions geared in normal single player PvE level 4 stuff.

 

I always found the system of Champions Online quite intriguing.

 

Well, anyways, the players are pretty much used to it and it's going to take time for MMOs to get away from the concept of levels.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Rabenschwinge

[Darklighter]

No matter what Bioware does, people will complain.

[StarMagus]

No matter what Bioware does, people will complain.

 

Complainers.... Complainers never change.

[NRieh]

. At the time being there are in fact more people complaining because the level sync makes the game too hard

The thing is, theya are somewhat correct. At the end (or sometimes in the middle) of the 'I WIN' effortless combat there are hardmods, OPs, FPs (and PvP too). I'd hate to be that fresh player who had encountered their first-time-ever challenge in a group, at 50+. Or at the WZ even. Which is important, by the way. How likely is that 'lv40-forced-2B-noob' going to enjoy their first PvP? Right, very unlikely.

 

Leveling used to help players learn the class and adapt their playstyle. Now there's no such thing as a 'leveling curve', and anything harder than fighting the grey\green might seem 'really hard'.

[CarpeSangrea]

The one and only toon I've levelled from scratch since 4.0, I was level 60 by the time I hit corellia. I finished my class quest, and was able to skip two entire expansions completely.

[branmakmuffin]

Seriously ? the "twink problem" ? that's all you found against XP toggle ?

 

because really with or without XP toggle, people can have twinks and already do btw. It's not like it's hard to send a lvl 40/64 BiS gear and leave in the last 10s to not get XP...

Yeah, but they can't stay there eternally.

 

Personally, I don't care if there's an XP halter or not.

[LadyVix]

Saying it doesn't matter anymore is your opinion, if you think it doesn't for the ways you can think of to level your characters, good for you. I'm not you, the amount of XP, level sync and a few other things don't let me play how I would like to play.

Just because your needs are covered doesn't mean mines are. I have better things to do than trying to make you understand than there's more to this problem than leveling fast or doing all the missions.

 

Why not letting players choose when they want XP or not ?

What exactly is bothering you in an OPTIONAL toggle to stop or reduce XP gain ?

 

Again, in your words, this is about how YOU want to play. You expect Bioware to change the game and add features, like "no EXP," things that have never existed in SWTOR since the days of beta, all to cater to you. I get it... you feel that you need to finish every on level quest, heroic and flashpoint, but the number of OCD completionists demanding these features are an extreme minority. If you want challenge, don't upgrade your gear. Things will be more challenging. If you want a new "no EXP" feature, then feel free to request such in the appropriate forum, but some of us, dare I say the majority of us, still oppose such changes.

Edited December 1, 2015 by LadyVix

[Morthion]

Leveling used to help players learn the class and adapt their playstyle.

 

I'm not sure that's 100% accurate. Abilities that could be considered vital to a rotation weren't attained pre-3.0 until around level 45 (unless my memory is faulty, which could definitely be the case ). There's at least as much of an argument to be made that time spent without half your abilities/passives encouraged bad habits rather than good ones.

[Turshek]

Again, in your words, this is about how YOU want to play. You expect Bioware to change the game and add features, like "no EXP," things that have never existed in SWTOR since the days of beta, all to cater to you. I get it... you feel that you need to finish every on level quest, heroic and flashpoint, but the number of OCD completionists demanding these features are an extreme minority. If you want challenge, don't upgrade your gear. Things will be more challenging. If you want a new "no EXP" feature, then feel free to request such in the appropriate forum, but some of us, dare I say the majority of us, still oppose such changes.

 

Yes I expect a MMO to evolve over the years and add features to offer more ways to play to make more people happy.

Not sure what is strange here, GSF, ranked PvP, strongholds... didn't existed at launch yet thoses things exist in game now.

I don't really understand either why people would be against a change that is optional, dunno it seems a good idea to offer more ways to play, just like they added NiM operations or ranked PvP for thoses that were interested..

 

Yeah, but they can't stay there eternally.

 

Personally, I don't care if there's an XP halter or not.

 

You get XP at the end of warzone, if you leave just before the end you get none...

[NRieh]

. you feel that you need to finish every on level quest, heroic and flashpoint, but the number of OCD completionists demanding these features are an extreme minority

Are you even reading? There's no need to be a completionist in order to be overleveled. Unless by 'completionist' you mean 'a person that does not speedrun through the purple quests, and occasionally plays stuff like space-misisons, FPs and WZs'. It's 3 (three) f-ing levels for the Esseless alone. It's doing the 10-12lv content as a lv18. It's leaving the 20-24lv Nar Shadda as a lv32! With no XP boosts (other than being subbed) and no legacy perks.

 

People want speed? Good, give it to them, half of the class missions grant 'xp boost' anyway - make it x10, let them use it, but make it optional.

[LadyVix]

Are you even reading? There's no need to be a completionist in order to be overleveled. Unless by 'completionist' you mean 'a person that does not speedrun through the purple quests, and occasionally plays stuff like space-misisons, FPs and WZs'. It's 3 (three) f-ing levels for the Esseless alone. It's doing the 10-12lv content as a lv18. It's leaving the 20-24lv Nar Shadda as a lv32! With no XP boosts (other than being subbed) and no legacy perks.

 

People want speed? Good, give it to them, half of the class missions grant 'xp boost' anyway - make it x10, let them use it, but make it optional.

 

As it is, leveling now is very similar to 12x, and the disproportionate overleveling is attributed to flashpoint EXP. I ran a new sage today, starting fresh, completing storyline quests on Tython and Coruscant, and ALL H2+ on both. When I left Coruscant on my new ship, I was Lv16. The problem you have is from running flashpoints, but the leveling is currently tuned to allow overall fast leveling as preferred by many/most players. If you want to slow things down, skip the flashpoints until you hit 65. You'll have plenty of time to run them then.

[Qouivandes]

"too fast..."

 

i tell you, if i had a dime....

[NRieh]

The problem you have is from running flashpoints

The only FP I've made was Esseless. Because it had no warning message like 'beware of insanely abnormal exp rates'. I've already posted my level progression rates per planet.

 

Old returning players replaying their old stories are not aware that doing the normal content is going to screw the balance. Same true for the new players, who have no idea what's what.

And yes, one-time FPs are considered normal content, because they are part of the story, same as any planetary mission. Looped farming is all different, but going through them once is just normal. Optional - true, same as most of the game activities, but it's not something that should hurt further player's experience in any way.

 

So, you're basically telling me not to play the story content, because it would give me insane number of exp, and wait until cap instead. Great idea of 'balance' you've got there.

 

I ran a new sage today, starting fresh, completing storyline quests on Tython and Coruscant, and ALL H2+ on both. When I left Coruscant on my new ship, I was Lv16.

Purple quests + HCs? So, you've skipped like 80% of the content. Glad that it kept your level progression in proper limits, lol.

Edited December 3, 2015 by NRieh

[LadyVix]

The only FP I've made was Esseless. Because it had no warning message like 'beware of insanely abnormal exp rates'. I've already posted my level progression rates per planet.

 

Old returning players replaying their old stories are not aware that doing the normal content is going to screw the balance. Same true for the new players, who have no idea what's what.

And yes, one-time FPs are considered normal content, because they are part of the story, same as any planetary mission. Looped farming is all different, but going through them once is just normal. Optional - true, same as most of the game activities, but it's not something that should hurt further player's experience in any way.

 

So, you're basically telling me not to play the story content, because it would give me insane number of exp, and wait until cap instead. Great idea of 'balance' you've got there.

 

 

Purple quests + HCs? So, you've skipped like 80% of the content. Glad that it kept your level progression in proper limits, lol.

This is exactly why 12x EXP didn't apply to flashpoints, and only to storyline leveling quests. Bioware had the option to do the same here, but chose, instead, to allow decent EXP and cater to the majority of players.

 

I'm sorry you don't approve of how Bioware has set things up, but I sincerely believe that the current system works fine. Will completing all planetary side quests and flashpoints put you over limit? Absolutely, however as far as I can remember (dating back to beta) that has always been the case. If you want more time on a planet, you'll either have to deal with being over level, or have to do it on an alt character.

[RogerApple]

People should seriously play another game that think its too fast. I'm sure there are other MMO's that are 100x more of a grind. It reminds me of people wanting to take companions buffs away. I'm just thinking are you trying to on purpose kill this game. Because you are taking most of the fun out of it. Who plays a game and says. This game needs more of a slow grind. Not me.

[Karkais]

Saying it doesn't matter anymore is your opinion, if you think it doesn't for the ways you can think of to level your characters, good for you. I'm not you, the amount of XP, level sync and a few other things don't let me play how I would like to play.

Just because your needs are covered doesn't mean mines are. I have better things to do than trying to make you understand than there's more to this problem than leveling fast or doing all the missions.

 

Why not letting players choose when they want XP or not ?

What exactly is bothering you in an OPTIONAL toggle to stop or reduce XP gain ?

 

Could you please explain how level sync does not allow you to play the way you would like to? Thats precisely why it was introduced in the first place, to allow people to play the way they want and not be bothered by overleveling..

 

The only thing it doesn't allow is to overlevel planetary content and feel "overpowered".. which it appears you are against anyway..? There is a contradiction here somewhere.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Karkais

[StarMagus]

Could you please explain how level sync does not allow you to play the way you would like to? Thats precisely why it was introduced in the first place, to allow people to play the way they want and not be bothered by overleveling..

 

They feel that having the extra abilities you get from leveling breaks the game.

[Mirandel]

As it is, leveling now is very similar to 12x, and the disproportionate overleveling is attributed to flashpoint EXP. I ran a new sage today, starting fresh, completing storyline quests on Tython and Coruscant, and ALL H2+ on both. When I left Coruscant on my new ship, I was Lv16. The problem you have is from running flashpoints, but the leveling is currently tuned to allow overall fast leveling as preferred by many/most players. If you want to slow things down, skip the flashpoints until you hit 65. You'll have plenty of time to run them then.

 

Wait, you are posting here so you must be a subscriber. And as a sub you managed to get to the END of Coruscant at level 16?! And you finished all H2 on it?! Sorry, I can not believe you. Granted, on Tython I finished almost all side-quests (not that there are very many of them) but on Coruscant it was story and some planetary (not side-quests, but planetary line, which is also "purple"), same on Taris and Nar Shaddaa. And now I am 37 and I am at the middle of Tatooine's story. 37! It's the level of very end of Balmorra for a non-stealthy character! Again - I am not doing even 50% of the planets quests.

 

Over-level does not bother me that much I only curious what one has to do now to stay in level. You are saying you have to ignore everything but the class story. Looks impossible even at this condition.

 

Will completing all planetary side quests and flashpoints put you over limit? Absolutely, however as far as I can remember (dating back to beta) that has always been the case.

 

Just to clarify - no, it did not. In the past you could PROBABLY get your lvl 50 in the middle of Corellia if you were doing everything (every heroic, including H4) on the way. But that's it. Completionist here and I do know what am I taking about. Stealthy classes used to come to the next planet under-leveld. Not the case of course anymore, and not that I support it. Just saying.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Mirandel

[LadyVix]

Wait, you are posting here so you must be a subscriber. And as a sub you managed to get to the END of Coruscant at level 16?! And you finished all H2 on it?! Sorry, I can not believe you. Granted, on Tython I finished almost all side-quests (not that there are very many of them) but on Coruscant it was story and some planetary (not side-quests, but planetary line, which is also "purple"), same on Taris and Nar Shaddaa. And now I am 37 and I am at the middle of Tatooine's story. 37! It's the level of very end of Balmorra for a non-stealthy character! Again - I am not doing even 50% of the planets quests.

 

So, in a nutshell, you're calling me a liar because my leveling experience is different from yours? Really?

 

Start a sage. Don't activate any legacy or consumable boosts. No guild EXP. Follow the same exact storyline you did during 12x EXP. Do the H2 on Tython and the half dozen H2's on Coruscant. When you get your ship and leave the planet, you should be level 16. (results may vary if you farm a lot/full clear the H2's)

Edited December 3, 2015 by LadyVix

[NRieh]

Thats precisely why it was introduced in the first place, to allow people to play the way they want and not be bothered by overleveling..

The only thing it doesn't allow is to overlevel planetary content and feel "overpowered"..

*sigh* But player IS bothered by overleveling. Unless you're saying that arriving on Corruscant as 17\18 against the 10-12 and starting lv 20-24 Nar Shadda as 26 is ok.

 

It is not working, can't you see? The only purpose of this 'scaling' is to make the alliance recycled HC grind possible. Difficulty is still a joke (~up to Makeb), but, hey, at least it's not 65 vs 30. It was never meant or adjusted for the normal leveling process. At best it can provide a bored like hell 65 an opportunity to finish 'dat long-forgotten lv 40 bonus-series'.

 

I've closed my first class story as lv49, and that included plenty of HCs, most (if not all available) FPs, most of the planetaries (with some bonuses) + regular space missions with a good share of PvP.

 

This time I arrive to Tatooine as a lv 33 (close to 34), skipped god share of the Taris, no Coruscant\Taris HCs, a single FP, little to none space missions and zero PvP.