The Current State of this game. Will Swtor make it another year?

[Vember]

This game won't die anytime soon, but it should be more than it is. It's STAR WARS.....it should be dominating the market. But misstep after misstep has slowly bled this game dry.

 

Instead, even a 10+ year old MMO is kicking it's butt....

 

This.

 

No PvP development, no GSF development, severe lack of content in most facets of the game, and in some areas for more than a year. That's terrible.

[Trobon]

Instead, even a 10+ year old MMO is kicking it's butt....

 

Yeah... Even World of Warcraft is beating us. How could we be so lame as to lose to the top MMO in the history of MMOs that was able to get unprecedented numbers that have never been replicated by any other MMO ever.

[Darklighter]

You say that like WoW hasn't kicked the butt of every MMO to come out since 2004. The fact that SWTOR is in second place and hanging in strong after 4 years is actually pretty dang good, considering how MMOs usually turn out post-WoW.

 

Where are you getting your second place numbers? This link shows it as #5.

 

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/perfect-ten-the-top-10-healthiest-live-mmos/

 

Pathetic...considering it's STAR WARS.

[Trobon]

Where are you getting your second place numbers? This link shows it as #5.

 

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/perfect-ten-the-top-10-healthiest-live-mmos/

 

Pathetic...considering it's STAR WARS.

 

No you're completely right. We're losing to World of Warcraft and the 3 newest MMOs. I honestly can't believe it! Especially when one of them is based on the most famous JRPG of all time and another is based on one of the most popular WRPGs. How could the Star Wars name not carry this video game RPG against those two video game RPGs' names?

[Sarfux]

There is no stopping some with the dismal and doom and gloom posts are there? Some people just like to complain.

[Darklighter]

No you're completely right. We're losing to World of Warcraft and the 3 newest MMOs. I honestly can't believe it! Especially when one of them is based on the most famous JRPG of all time and another is based on one of the most popular WRPGs. How could the Star Wars name not carry this video game RPG against those two video game RPGs' names?

 

Guild Wars is 3 years old. (1 year younger then SWTOR)

Final Fantasy XIV is 5 years old. (1 year older than SWTOR)

Elder Scrolls Online is 20 months old. (SWTOR has been out quite longer than this one, I'll give you that)

 

So, I'm pretty sure your "3 newest MMOs" comment has been reduced to 1....

 

And yes, I do think the STAR WARS name should beat out any RPG name. I'm pretty sure more people have heard of Star Wars than those that know Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy.

 

Feel free to eyeroll at some more facts.

[Trobon]

Guild Wars is 3 years old. (1 year younger then SWTOR)

Final Fantasy XIV is 5 years old. (1 year older than SWTOR)

Elder Scrolls Online is 20 months old. (SWTOR has been out quite longer than this one, I'll give you that)

 

So, I'm pretty sure your "3 newest MMOs" comment has been reduced to 1....

 

And yes, I do think the STAR WARS name should beat out any RPG name. I'm pretty sure more people have heard of Star Wars than those that know Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy.

 

Feel free to eyeroll at some more facts.

 

If you are talking about the failed MMO that was canceled then you'd be right. If you're talking about the game that is currently being played then you're looking at a August 2013 release date, or about 2 years ago.

 

So that would be all three are younger than SWTOR.

 

Of course, I know that only because I bother to follow MMOs and actually try and know about what I am talking about rather then just spout out doom and gloom.

 

But then again I'm talking to a person who referred to WoW as a 10+ year old MMO rather than acknowledging that it had been the reigning MMO that has surpassed anything any other MMO could do.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Trobon

[Jadescythe]

Guild Wars is 3 years old. (1 year younger then SWTOR)

Final Fantasy XIV is 5 years old. (1 year older than SWTOR)

Elder Scrolls Online is 20 months old. (SWTOR has been out quite longer than this one, I'll give you that)

 

So, I'm pretty sure your "3 newest MMOs" comment has been reduced to 1....

 

And yes, I do think the STAR WARS name should beat out any RPG name. I'm pretty sure more people have heard of Star Wars than those that know Elder Scrolls or Final Fantasy.

 

Feel free to eyeroll at some more facts.

 

FF totally rebooted and released August 2013 FYI.

[GalacticKegger]

There is no stopping some with the dismal and doom and gloom posts are there? Some people just like to complain.

Please don't confuse complaining with berating.

[Sarfux]

Please don't confuse complaining with berating.

 

 

My mistake. Also, there are those that think ANY MMO that does NOT come up to the standards or subsriber / player numbers of World of Warcraft, failed. Because they have been brainwashed that 12 million subscribers at the peak and even 8 or 5 million is successful. Because..that's what blizzard said so many, many will follow their talk. So anything that doesn't "beat wow" is a failure.

 

Yes, I'm serious. That's how some view things. Sad isn't it?

[CKNORTH]

My mistake. Also, there are those that think ANY MMO that does NOT come up to the standards or subsriber / player numbers of World of Warcraft, failed. Because they have been brainwashed that 12 million subscribers at the peak and even 8 or 5 million is successful. Because..that's what blizzard said so many, many will follow their talk. So anything that doesn't "beat wow" is a failure.

 

Yes, I'm serious. That's how some view things. Sad isn't it?

 

To add to this for people who remember EQ and the first week of the SoL expansion, it was the first MMO to reach 1million players online ... and the infamous wow would not be where it is today without the MASS exodus of EQ. but then again EQ is still alive, barely perhaps due to new management, but its still there.....

 

in all I think the entire MMO spectrum is on Burnoutmode, if this game was D3 style where we had a online single player experience with a CC store and a possible common AH it might bring a new flavor to MMO's in general in the sense of it being a RPG but nothing that again Blizz hasn't done with the old D2 back in 2001 online solo play with common game wide trading... just a thought.

[TUXs]

My mistake. Also, there are those that think ANY MMO that does NOT come up to the standards or subsriber / player numbers of World of Warcraft, failed. Because they have been brainwashed that 12 million subscribers at the peak and even 8 or 5 million is successful. Because..that's what blizzard said so many, many will follow their talk. So anything that doesn't "beat wow" is a failure.

 

Yes, I'm serious. That's how some view things. Sad isn't it?

Who's expecting it to beat W0W though - the players or the developers?

 

I think you may be blaming the customer for failing to meet the developers expectations...whether we have have 10 million or 500,000 players, it doesn't matter to me...I just want a quality product that reinvests our payments into enhancing our experience. Do you feel SWTOR is doing that adequately? Think about PvP...GSF...OPs...are those being fully supported to the best of Bioware's ability?

[CKNORTH]

Who's expecting it to beat W0W though - the players or the developers?

 

I think you may be blaming the customer for failing to meet the developers expectations...whether we have have 10 million or 500,000 players, it doesn't matter to me...I just want a quality product that reinvests our payments into enhancing our experience. Do you feel SWTOR is doing that adequately? Think about PvP...GSF...OPs...are those being fully supported to the best of Bioware's ability?

 

this pretty much... apparently BW/EA just brings content out without listening to anything the customer has to say THEN just sort of ignores there is a problem. GSF has been out for how long, was nothing that anyone wanted other then space PvP, and look at the ample suggestions mostly everyone ware saying for it, Mainly and open space combat without rails or walls..... perhaps we are expecting to much of the Dev's in the sense that they only can work with the inadequate tools they are given? and where majority of the income this game makes goes to the Shareholders?

[Djiini]

Who's expecting it to beat W0W though - the players or the developers?

 

I think you may be blaming the customer for failing to meet the developers expectations...whether we have have 10 million or 500,000 players, it doesn't matter to me...I just want a quality product that reinvests our payments into enhancing our experience. Do you feel SWTOR is doing that adequately? Think about PvP...GSF...OPs...are those being fully supported to the best of Bioware's ability?

 

What about the people who, you know, realize Bioware's only strength is writing and think that those of you who care about the other stuff are looking in the wrong place?

[CKNORTH]

What about the people who, you know, realize Bioware's only strength is writing and think that those of you who care about the other stuff are looking in the wrong place?

 

(My Conspiracy Theory is) that the truth behind the RaF program is the game is on its last legs. Question, what was the last quarter numbers before KoTFE and when is the next quarter numbers?

[Sarfux]

Who's expecting it to beat W0W though - the players or the developers?

 

I think you may be blaming the customer for failing to meet the developers expectations...whether we have have 10 million or 500,000 players, it doesn't matter to me...I just want a quality product that reinvests our payments into enhancing our experience. Do you feel SWTOR is doing that adequately? Think about PvP...GSF...OPs...are those being fully supported to the best of Bioware's ability?

 

I don't care how many players we have either TUXs. I'm saying that THAT is how a lot of people think with mmorpgs. If it doesn't "beat wow" it's a failure and that's not true at all. We DO Have a quality product that our payments pay for and this game has gotten much better than what it was years ago. Right now? I give the game 10/10. Because it is enormous, amazing with tons of stuff to do to keep you occupied and well immersed. The level sync to go around and do what you want when you want is fantastic! You can pile on the credits and us higher levels don't have to "wait for a new planet" or zone to go in JUST to do some more few dailies. We can do anything anywhere now. Very, very fun. I love it even more so now. (if that's possible... )

 

Do I believe they could do better for the PvP aspect? Yes, but this was never really a pvp game. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't cease work on it. Do I believe they need to add more maps and stuff for Galactic Starfighter? Yes. They need to keep on the ball with that so in time there are different battle fields and scenarios around the galaxy to choose from. Operations? I feel as though we will get some a lot next expansion.

 

Remember, all of 4.0 is dedicated solely to story and Jeff Hickman said "we are going back to our roots with 4.0 and then come the mmo bits" so next expansion look forward to for your mmo things. Such as more raids, operations and stuff.

 

I DO sincerely believe they ought to do more with GSF though. It has such good potential and they seemed to have abandoned that aspect of this game. I don't get it. But I believe in the future, after 4.0 and after they are done putting a crap ton more story into this game, that they will focus on that stuff for 5.0 and beyond. Remember, they were getting back to their roots which IS story in 4.0. They even stated.

 

I dont believe this is a big PvP game. Yes, even though many players might do it. It was always a PvE game. But don't worry, after 4.0 which is dedicated all to story, you will find 5.0 and beyond getting many of the mmo bits and more operations and stuff.

 

And yes, I DO believe that sometimes customers are at fault for having way too high of expectations and something that is not within the scope of reality then they get mad if it's not what they exactly expect down to the T. You must keep an open mind about things. It's not always the fault of the producer....the consumer isn't perfect as well.

[Kurj]

To answer the OP's question: Yes. SWTOR will be around for a long time to come. I don't think the large percentage of gripe posts on these boards remotely reflects the views of most players, nor do I think it is a meaningful indicator of how the game is performing.

 

I think that there is a big difference between how serious MMO players view this game and how casual MMO players view it. Serious players are concerned about things like class balance, OPs, PVP, etc. Casuals could care less, and are instead focused on simple things like, "Can my chosen class complete the story quests?" (A point someone above raised as far as class balance which I think is 100% on target as far as BWEA is concerned. They are not too concerned that your friend's PT AP can beat the daylights out of your Carnage Marauder in a duel now.)

 

BWEA is very clearly aiming for casual players with the story focus. There are far more of them than there are serious players, which means that is the more desirable player base to chase after. Hence, difficulty levels are lowered, the game experience is streamlined, and it is all designed to make the player feel like the hero of the story with a focus on making that experience as packaged and catered as possible.

 

Serious players do not like this. They invest time and effort to acquire skill and want their achievements to mean something. They theory-craft, crunch numbers, write guides, find bugs, make suggestions, and take it personally when BWEA ignores them. Hence the flood of negative threads given BWEA's shift in focus towards a casual base.

 

I don't think this is ever going to change, and I also don't think it's a bad thing. I think the influx of casuals will help maintain profitability and keep the game chugging along. Monthly releases of new story content should bring a good number of people to the game who wouldn't come otherwise. I think the serious players will get their needs taken care of too - maybe not in the New York minute they want, but their needs will be met, largely because increased profitability will benefit all players.

 

We are all trashing BWEA because they're not doing exactly what we would like them to do, but I have a sneaking suspicion these folks aren't as dumb as we think they are. I think SWTOR is doing just fine.

[GalacticKegger]

My mistake. Also, there are those that think ANY MMO that does NOT come up to the standards or subsriber / player numbers of World of Warcraft, failed. Because they have been brainwashed that 12 million subscribers at the peak and even 8 or 5 million is successful. Because..that's what blizzard said so many, many will follow their talk. So anything that doesn't "beat wow" is a failure.

 

Yes, I'm serious. That's how some view things. Sad isn't it?

No worries. There is just a big distinction between people voicing specifics about something that positively or negatively effects their game play ... and people who get wood at the mere thought of antagonizing others.

 

As many have already pointed out, there are MMOs that have been around damn near as long as Windows. MMOs that keep on keepin' on with what, by current marketing gaga, is a player base that is too small to sustain it. Honestly, what they have on their side is simplicity in design, maintenance and upgrade. Among other things, they don't have 6 Star Wars movies worth of voice animation to support.

 

Next time you log in, at the server listing screen click the credits icon on the bottom left and you'll see what I mean. Just be sure to pack a lunch and beverage beforehand because you'll be there for awhile.

 

Back to your point, I couldn't care less about comparing anything as mundane as game analytics or subscription sizes. I'll leave that for the MARCOM professionals ... or amateurs with compensation issues. What makes a game a success or failure imho is how the player feels about it. Whether or not there is a hook or special something that entices them to log in and stay logged in as often as they can.

Edited December 4, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[anesvik]

I feel like the OP. I love Star Wars. And I used to really love relaxing after a long day and "geeking out" and playing SWTOR. But lately, it feels like this game is slowing down and dying. NOW. Before anyone calls me a doomsayer, or whatever...I am not. This is a great game and ...well, its Star Wars! I want this game to be around for a long, long time. But the way they (IMO) seem to be cutting out group content, it feels like a car rolling to a stop.

No new effort being put into pvp. I hate pvp. But I do see it as a part of this game that many people enjoy. And I see those players being 'swept under the rug'.

Flashpoints are becoming tacticals. So the need to "learn your class" is ALMOST pointless when mobs melt like butter and medpacs everywhere.

Storymode Ops (usually what everyone seems to be PUGing due to the ease of them) have become overly simple.

And bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs everywhere.

"Quit crying on forums" Where else do you suggest I go? This IS the games website after all.

 

I am sure I could go on, but point has been made. I want to be able to play with other people. Not just go from lvl1 to 65 without thinking "Hmm, that might be hard. Better grab a buddy." or " Time for some gear. Gonna run flashpoints to gear up and maybe level too"

Edited December 4, 2015 by anesvik
typos

[Ashlian]

I feel like the OP. I love Star Wars. And I used to really love relaxing after a long day and "geeking out" and playing SWTOR. But lately, it feels like this game is slowing down and dying. NOW. Before anyone calls me a doomsayer, or whatever...I am not. This is a great game and ...well, its Star Wars! I want this game to be around for a long, long time. But the way they (IMO) seem to be cutting out group content, it feels like a car rolling to a stop.

No new effort being put into pvp. I hate pvp. But I do see it as a part of this game that many people enjoy. And I see those players being 'swept under the rug'.

Flashpoints are becoming tacticals. So the need to "learn your class" is ALMOST pointless when mobs melt like butter and medpacs everywhere.

Storymode Ops (usually what everyone seems to be PUGing due to the ease of them) have become overly simple.

And bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs everywhere.

"Quit crying on forums" Where else do you suggest I go? This IS the games website after all.

 

I am sure I could go on, but point has been made. I want to be able to play with other people. Not just go from lvl1 to 65 without thinking "Hmm, that might be hard. Better grab a buddy." or " Time for some gear. Gonna run flashpoints to gear up and maybe level too"

 

I do know what you mean. I've said since launch that this was, at the very most, an MMO-lite, as in light on the Massively Multiplayer. It has ALWAYS played as a very, very casual MMO to me, far more a single-player game in a shared world than an actual MMO. But I started out in 1999 with the original Everquest, on a server with one of the top two worldwide raid guilds, when raids actually became a thing. Hardcore on my server meant camping rare mobs with other people for days, weeks, months, with phone trees for raiders and lists of the next player waiting to come to the camp for the "casual" group player. Heh. Like anything was casual in EQ. And you had no choice in most circumstances but to group, because solo content was nonexistent for a very long time.

 

At any rate, I am considerably older now, and while I get a little thrill out of discussing my uphill both ways in the snow helping lead 72-person pickup raids without VoIP-software days with EQ, I really, truly have no desire to relive them even a little. I kind of laughed at all the people who b*tched about the companions being OP and having people kicked out of groups because the companion was better at healing. Anyone who really wanted a challenge should have simply run, um....without a companion at all in their group so as to make it tougher? Is there a rule that you HAVE to use a companion if they were better rather than those actual players that the complainers were complaining the game is not an MMO without? It seemed a tad hypocritical to me that there were people moaning that the game was not an MMO at the same time as they said their companions were OP in groups. Since they were arguing that MMO's are about grouping with living people, and not with NPC's. So....they believed that SW should be an MMO, but they were upset when, rather than doing group content with a full group of actual PC's, thereby displaying the uber skillz they talked about possessing, they chose to pop out an OP companion meant to assist the people with fewer skills and then whined about how easy it was? Hmm. Of course, given how fubar the bolster is for lower levels, by far the quickest way to make a FP difficult is to use the groupfinder. Though nothing is preventing pre-made groups of friends from using the groupfinder to avoid the less-skilled, though that defeats the purpose of the whole meeting real people MMO thing for me again. So many elite players tend to advocate this weird combination of difficulty for them while somehow expecting the devs to get more people to play. But only already GOOD players. Counterintuitive.

 

I won't argue at all about a dearth of PvP, though I think they give PvP probably precisely the amount of attention its revenue stream generates. As they do with emotes and such for roleplayers, and raids for the small percentage of raiders. If anything, raids will get MORE attention now that the content has become truly usable at SM level for the overall population. It takes nothing away from NiM raiders completing difficult content for unique rewards for the average person to get to go in a zone and see the content. The last time I did current expac raiding was EQ1...by EQ2, I didn't have time to do more than raid old content with a raid alliance, mainly just to SEE it. I'm delighted I won't have to jump through hoops to see the raid content in SW. I applaud the move to make the game mainstream friendly overall, because they have not dumbed down the portions meant to be most difficult, like HM FP's and NiM raiding. More players means more content development at all levels, and more opportunities, should people choose to take them, to meet new friends. And it is up to the player, not the devs, to choose difficulty over ease when it's offered. I totally grant that the story quests themselves are dead easy, but even then you could make it at least a little more difficult by playing sans companions or with no or crappy armor to make it challenging. I used to pick my armor for looks, and THAT was challenging with no appearance slots and very little orange gear at the time.

 

Will it ever be challenging in the sense that truly interdependent MMORPG's with larger group sizes and no companions are? Nope. But it NEVER WAS challenging in that sense. It's amazing to me that people look at a casual game, designed originally for casual players, based on a franchise that is appealing to everyone from my 3-year old nephew who was wearing a "Have a Very, Merry Sithmas!" t-shirt at Thanksgiving and my 9-year old niece who has Jedi Barbie on my server with pink everything, to their dad and I who were 4 and 5 years old when we stood in line to see Star Wars at the theater, and our parents who stood there with us and bought us every 70's SW toy known to man afterward, and think the devs should shoot for anything BUT the lowest common denominators. Recall that a bell curve guarantees 50% of the people playing are going to be below average at whatever metric you're measuring. It makes no sense to tune a mainstream game for the top percentiles when 75% of your demographic is slightly above average to well below average. There ARE great niche games with emphasis on other MMO aspects, and some of them do extremely well. But I don't think BW/EA has gone wrong in choosing the emphasis on story with a dash of MMO thrown in. It might not satisfy the people who want a true MMORPG experience, though did it honestly ever? But it is actually looking pretty good for their bottom line. SWtOR is consistently in ratings among the top 5 healthiest non-Asian MMO's. I'm hoping to continue my story for a long time to come, on all seventeen of my characters. And HK-55! I prefer to enjoy this game for what it is and has always been, rather than what it will never be, given the demographics the devs have clearly stated they are shooting for.

[SaerethDL]

I'm sad to say, i hope this game will shut down soon, as far as i'm concerned it's been out almost 5 years, you've had plenty of opportunities to play it by now, and if you haven't then you aren't really interested to begin with. Out with the old no content garbage, and in with something new and maybe even better.

[DarthDymond]

I'm sad to say, i hope this game will shut down soon, as far as i'm concerned it's been out almost 5 years, you've had plenty of opportunities to play it by now, and if you haven't then you aren't really interested to begin with. Out with the old no content garbage, and in with something new and maybe even better.

I'm assuming that was a simple just a typo, but just in case you're working under a misapprehension - the game has been out for less than four years.

 

Beyond that, I completely disagree - KotFE brought exactly the sort of content I enjoy seeing in this game, and starting in February we're going to be getting additional chunks of that content every month, as opposed to the three-to-four month cadence we had before.

Edited December 4, 2015 by DarthDymond

[MopSopS]

Isn't bioware devoloping another star wars game? If not then I sadly heard wrong

[GalacticKegger]

Isn't bioware devoloping another star wars game? If not then I sadly heard wrong

LucasArt's 1313 maybe? If so I think it was cancelled in early 2013. Edited December 4, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[Kalfear]

To add to this for people who remember EQ and the first week of the SoL expansion, it was the first MMO to reach 1million players online ... and the infamous wow would not be where it is today without the MASS exodus of EQ. but then again EQ is still alive, barely perhaps due to new management, but its still there.....

 

in all I think the entire MMO spectrum is on Burnoutmode, if this game was D3 style where we had a online single player experience with a CC store and a possible common AH it might bring a new flavor to MMO's in general in the sense of it being a RPG but nothing that again Blizz hasn't done with the old D2 back in 2001 online solo play with common game wide trading... just a thought.

 

Yas and no

 

Yes people clearly burned out on the modern version of MMORPGs (Wow and later)

There is a reason they all go F2P

You burn through them in a coupel few weeks and move on so you are not interested in paying a sub and everything for such a short term game.

 

But When you look at the industry

New games still get a fairly strong showing, even if they subscription games

The bottom falls out after the initial response when the game play, the immersion just doesnt live up to expectations.

 

Now some would say lower expectations, but honestly thats what WOW did and while it worked for them, its also the reason genre in the state it is now. Because it did not work for anyone after WOW (to the level the companies thought it would)

 

Personally I think players, even the special snowflake tantrum gimme gimme gimme crowd are waiting for a MMORPG to do it right finally.

 

If you look back at the genre from 1991 to present day, there is stuff thats always a huge hit. And there is stuff thats always a negative.

 

Its just going to take a company (cause sadly the days of independant design for MMORPGs are over) to put ego aside (number #1 game killer, developers that think they know best and ignore genre history) and put the peices togather

 

Its not a complexe or difficult undertaking to hilite what works, what doesnt

 

Take that, put it to a setting that will grab imagination

And you will have a hit

And the MMORPG genre will suddenly thrive and grow.

 

But for some reason beyond all common sense and understanding

No company has been willing to do that yet.

 

SWTOR probably one of the closer games but for every step forward they would take 2 or 3 steps back as unable or unwilling to put the ego aside.

 

Wildstar seemed to have allot of it done right, but they went with saturday morning cartoon graphics (which still baffles me on WHY????). And that killed them right in the gate.

 

Rift had a huge opening response (as did SWTOR), the subscription was not a issue and scared no one away. But the easy mode game play in both games at launch really did them in. When you have players at end game 2 weeks into launch, you know you are in trouble as no one can pump out content that fast.

 

Anyways, I dont think the MMORPG genre on burnout as we still see huge numbers for new subcription based MMORPGs.

 

The people are there, its the current products that are failing to hold players

most of that has to do with to easy and to fast

you eat it up and move on and suddenly the game has lost its opening day subscribers

 

The genre just needs someone to step up and make the proper game

It will sell huge and hold its base long term

But these devs and companies need to stop shooting themselves in their own foot by trying to recreate WOW success off the WOW model.

It doesnt work

Its ONLY ever worked for WOW

Everyone else that tried it failed to meet market expectations

 

They need to look at the whole genre through out history and take the good, remove the bad, and bring MMORPGs back into being a virtual world alive and thriving.

 

right now they really nothing more then single player games set on ultra easy mode

 

Thats fine for a Single Player RPG

But MMORPGs are something completely different