Anti-nerfers! Stop it!

[Sambaa]

To all of you telling players to turn off companion abilities, dismiss them etc.. STOP!!!

 

It is not the player's responsibility to create a challenging gaming experience, it's the developers.. Otherwise it is an artificial challenge, it's not real.. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

I am not pro nerf or against nerf.. All I am saying is, I should not be forced to lose a part of the game (dismiss my companion) if I feel there's no challenge..

[ElusiveOneX]

All true, but players could stick to components of the game that have always been challenging instead of being interested in making solo content a struggle. The fact that heroic missions will no longer be approachable by all levels with any companion breaks the entire system for me. I don't know why I would continue to pay for this, not to mention tactical flashpoints were ruined with 4.0.

 

On one hand I know those companions were broken, on other hand, I really hate dying to pulls i'm expected to complete solo. Colicoids on Balmorra are still destroying my 42 guardian, the burst healing is just bad.

[Trobon]

Actually, it is 100% your responsibility to ensure you have a fun time. Here's the thing, Bioware can't make the game the "right" challenge for every person. It's just not possible. At the end of the day if you feel a game is not challenging enough you have two options, quit or make artificial challenges.

 

I don't know why every other genre of game has people who understand this but MMOs. In Mario, people play speed runs because they mastered the game. In Diablo people play on hard core mode. In DnD Online there are guilds around a one death, delete character policy.

 

The fact of the matter is there are tools to give yourself an artificial challenge. Among them are turning off some or all abilities on your companion. If players don't want to do that then that's fine, but they can't then ignore that option and try and force their desired level of difficulty on everyone else.

[MrGoldsilver]

They should just create an item that nerfs comp's damage, healing and damage reduction from abilities (For tanks) by 50% or so, and make it so you also get twice the credits/data crystals from missions if you had the buff on for the entire mission

 

Problem solved. At least until people whine that they can't get double the credits from missions without extra effort.

[ElusiveOneX]

They should just create an item that nerfs comp's damage, healing and damage reduction from abilities (For tanks) by 50% or so, and make it so you also get twice the credits/data crystals from missions if you had the buff on for the entire mission

 

Problem solved. At least until people whine that they can't get double the credits from missions without extra effort.

 

Your idea actually makes a lot of sense. Maybe you'd just change the amount of crystals and not credits.

[Nommaz]

Actually, it is 100% your responsibility to ensure you have a fun time. Here's the thing, Bioware can't make the game the "right" challenge for every person. It's just not possible. At the end of the day if you feel a game is not challenging enough you have two options, quit or make artificial challenges.

 

I don't know why every other genre of game has people who understand this but MMOs. In Mario, people play speed runs because they mastered the game. In Diablo people play on hard core mode. In DnD Online there are guilds around a one death, delete character policy.

 

The fact of the matter is there are tools to give yourself an artificial challenge. Among them are turning off some or all abilities on your companion. If players don't want to do that then that's fine, but they can't then ignore that option and try and force their desired level of difficulty on everyone else.

 

^ This couldnt have said it better myself

[Uruare]

To all of you telling players to turn off companion abilities, dismiss them etc.. STOP!!!

 

It is not the player's responsibility to create a challenging gaming experience, it's the developers.. Otherwise it is an artificial challenge, it's not real.. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

I am not pro nerf or against nerf.. All I am saying is, I should not be forced to lose a part of the game (dismiss my companion) if I feel there's no challenge..

 

It's not real?

 

What, pray tell, makes it more 'real' if Bioware makes you have to avoid damage doing Thing A compared to if you just decide to do so yourself?

 

Do you need your hand held that badly?

 

What in God's good name would you do if you had to entertain yourself and there was nobody around to tell you what to do?

 

More 'real'. What rubbish and nonsense. None of this is real. It's all a pretendy-funtime game in which we push pixels at other pixels in whatever fashions we might find entertaining.

 

If you aren't able to find what they give you entertaining and you're completely unable and unwilling to make your own fun, then it's not really going to be a good time for you.

 

Not here nor anywhere, quite likely, unless you get so fabulously wealthy that you can get people to cater exclusively to your interests, make games just for you exactly as you'd like them and so forth.

 

As it is... Welcome to shared digital spaces, where difficulty will often cater to the most common denominators and challenge will take whatever forms those most common denominators will tolerate.

 

If you're not one of those most common denominators, you'd better get good at making your own fun and not huffing around waiting for Bioware, or anybody else at all, to provide you with the uncommon variety of entertainment you apparently expect.

 

The choice is yours.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Uruare

[Frenesi]

I find it funny when people who loved 4.0 companions talk about "handhelding". You guys definetely know more about it then I do.

 

On less ****-throwing note, guess it's time to stop. Bioware became aware of the problem, stated their intentions, and patched the game accordingly, so now it's the definition of dead horse beating for both sides.

[Uruare]

I find it funny when people who loved 4.0 companions talk about "handhelding". You guys definetely know more about it then I do.

 

On less ****-throwing note, guess it's time to stop. Bioware became aware of the problem, stated their intentions, and patched the game accordingly, so now it's the definition of dead horse beating for both sides.

 

Do you find walking across your house challenging?

 

Assuming you can walk normally, I'd further assume that the answer would be that you probably do not and have likely never found this to be a task of note.

 

I don't find it difficult at all, myself. Don't even have to think to do it all the freaking time.

 

So, how interested would you be in suddenly having it take twice as long to do so?

 

Would this present a challenge to you, if you were suddenly relegated to moving at half speed through your house?

 

Would you enjoy that?

 

If you're answer is no, then you might understand why I, and anyone of like mind as me, preferred powerful companions.

 

We didn't need our hands held. It just made the monotony go by faster.

[Stradlin]

To all of you telling players to turn off companion abilities, dismiss them etc.. STOP!!!

 

It is not the player's responsibility to create a challenging gaming experience, it's the developers.. Otherwise it is an artificial challenge, it's not real.. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

 

It is ridiculous how some people don't get this.

Gimmicky self imposed handicaps that game itself in no way recognizes or supports is entirely different thing to challenging game. I don't know how alienated one needs to be from basic concepts of excitement and challenge in video games, in order to not get this.

 

Climbing to Mount Everest while using all your guile, skills and gears is something even those who don't care of mountain climbing can easily recognize as rewarding, major achievement.

Climbing a two meters tall wall while using nothing but your teeth is much harder than climbing Mount Everest. Yet, nobody looks at it as major achievement. Just weird silly self imposed gimmicks to make a simple task appear hard.

[Trobon]

It is ridiculous how some people don't get this.

Gimmicky self imposed handicaps that game itself in no way recognizes or supports is entirely different thing to challenging game. I don't know how alienated one needs to be from basic concepts of excitement and challenge in video games, in order to not get this.

 

Climbing to Mount Everest while using all your guile, skills and gears is something even those who don't care of mountain climbing can easily recognize as rewarding, major achievement.

Climbing a two meters tall wall while using nothing but your teeth is much harder than climbing Mount Everest. Yet, nobody looks at it as major achievement. Just weird silly self imposed gimmicks to make a simple task appear hard.

 

Yeah that's why no one respects Super Mario speed runs or runs without picking up a mushroom. There's always going to be people who master a game. That doesn't mean the game should be balanced around them. It means you either stop playing or find a way to challenge yourself. This isn't a new concept. There are Twitch channels devoted to people who play this way.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Trobon

[Sambaa]

Actually, it is 100% your responsibility to ensure you have a fun time. Here's the thing, Bioware can't make the game the "right" challenge for every person. It's just not possible. At the end of the day if you feel a game is not challenging enough you have two options, quit or make artificial challenges.

 

I don't know why every other genre of game has people who understand this but MMOs. In Mario, people play speed runs because they mastered the game. In Diablo people play on hard core mode. In DnD Online there are guilds around a one death, delete character policy.

 

The fact of the matter is there are tools to give yourself an artificial challenge. Among them are turning off some or all abilities on your companion. If players don't want to do that then that's fine, but they can't then ignore that option and try and force their desired level of difficulty on everyone else.

 

But really, what I am saying is, the pre-4.0 companions did both.. Created just the right challenge.. There was no need to buff them, then nerf them and then buff them again.

[Nommaz]

It is ridiculous how some people don't get this.

.

 

Its really simple, now we all have a choice, you CAN even if you dont want to make it harder for yourself if this is what you consider a challenge, and the rest CAN play the way they want to.

 

If the companions get nerfed again you get to play the way you want to, but the other loose their choice of playstyle, but so long as you guys are happy what does it matter huh...

 

What you are essentially saying is play it my way or go away, the others are saying you CAN play it your way you have a choice, as do we.

 

The best possible fix for this as I have said and will continue to do so is make level snyc optional.

[Frenesi]

Do you find walking across your house challenging?

 

Assuming you can walk normally, I'd further assume that the answer would be that you probably do not and have likely never found this to be a task of note.

 

I don't find it difficult at all, myself. Don't even have to think to do it all the freaking time.

 

So, how interested would you be in suddenly having it take twice as long to do so?

 

Would this present a challenge to you, if you were suddenly relegated to moving at half speed through your house?

 

Would you enjoy that?

 

If you're answer is no, then you might understand why I, and anyone of like mind as me, preferred powerful companions.

 

We didn't need our hands held. It just made the monotony go by faster.

 

Sorry, but that example is terrible. I don't walk around my house for fun, or when I need to be taken away from another IRL BS. I go and read the book. Or watch a film. And yes, unless I'm in complete shutdown state, I prefer the ones that challenge me - but again, not in the way your comparison suggests. It's mental challenge. New ideas, new ways to think, new problems to solve, and get away from reality by doing so. That "problems to solve" portion is exactly what I seek from some games, this included. And yes, when I'm forced to entertain myself by introducing artificial challenge, I'd rather choose to go and do something else. Call me lazy if you want.

 

If you find gameplay so tedious and boring, why are you even doing it? Or why don't you concentrate your efforts on making THE CONTENT in question less boring, instead of supporting crutch that only serves to mask the problem?

[Trobon]

But really, what I am saying is, the pre-4.0 companions did both.. Created just the right challenge.. There was no need to buff them, then nerf them and then buff them again.

 

That's not what you are saying, nor is it true. What you said is that people shouldn't be expected to curate their own fun. Which is wro NH for the same reason companions weren't perfectly balanced before and aren't now. Balancing fun is subjective. Challenge is subjective. The only one with control over it at the end of the day is you.

[Fallensouls]

To all of you telling players to turn off companion abilities, dismiss them etc.. STOP!!!

 

It is not the player's responsibility to create a challenging gaming experience, it's the developers.. Otherwise it is an artificial challenge, it's not real.. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

I am not pro nerf or against nerf.. All I am saying is, I should not be forced to lose a part of the game (dismiss my companion) if I feel there's no challenge..

 

So your just too lazy to turn off skills to make the challenge harder. Don't know why you guys are beating a dead horse we got the buff and its not going away. No way Bioware wants that many subs to cancel again. Oh and FYI companions are at the same strength as they were in 3.0 with good gear and you didn't complain about nerfing them then so you guys need to shut it.

[Uruare]

Sorry, but that example is terrible. I don't walk around my house for fun, or when I need to be taken away from another IRL BS. I go and read the book. Or watch a film. And yes, unless I'm in complete shutdown state, I prefer the ones that challenge me - but again, not in the way your comparison suggests. It's mental challenge. New ideas, new ways to think, new problems to solve, and get away from reality by doing so.

 

It felt like an apt comparison for my perspective. I wasn't farming heroics for fun. I made my own fun doing it quite independently of any game mechanisms, but it was really about as thoughtless, effortless and uninteresting as walking back and forth through my house.

 

I've been playing this game for years, off and on. I know what's where and how it all works. I don't have to think to do hardly anything, even the things thaw are supposed to be difficult, because I've often done them scads of times before.

 

 

 

 

That "problems to solve" portion is exactly what I seek from some games, this included. And yes, when I'm forced to entertain myself by introducing artificial challenge, I'd rather choose to go and do something else. Call me lazy if you want.

 

I don't know that that's lazy per se, though I tend to play various single player games at my favored difficulty settings, and Secret World, for gaming challenges. That's obviously my mileage and not a standard against which anything could be measured, of course.

 

 

 

If you find gameplay so tedious and boring, why are you even doing it? Or why don't you concentrate your efforts on making THE CONTENT in question less boring, instead of supporting crutch that only serves to mask the problem?

 

Because it's the only Star Wars game in town that I can adventure around with my gaming pals in. I'm also pretty OK with not feeling challenged by much of it, since I'm usually chattering with said friends on Skype and goofing off.

 

It's never been a very challenging game for me. It clearly isn't designed to be a particularly difficult game in my fashion of difficulty preferences, so I've largely played it like a dollhouse game, and had lots of fun RPing sometimes, and writing my little character stories other times.

 

I don't play this when I'm wanting to stealth around and be all survival-mode. That's how I play my Elder Scrolls and Fallout games though. I mod those suckers up as best I can to make wading into combat suicide.

 

Traps, clever use of terrain, running away a lot, hit and run tactics, all the 'Oh crap!' Moments - they're great fun.

 

And when one of my characters dies, I usually delete them and write some tragic little story about how their miserable lives ended, and that's fun (for me) too.

 

He done much the same on here with some characters.

 

I've found a great many ways here to make my own fun challenges when I've wanted that.

 

If Bioware ever wants to make the game more tactically difficult, I'd be all for it... But they won't.

 

Secret World fights against world trash can be great fun, especially in later zones and Tokyo. Tokyo in that game is absolutely not a place that the average player here would be able to do much of anything in.

 

Some of the regular street trash has more mechanics and crap to get out of than many of the dungeon bosses in this game, and over in Secret World, one has to overcome solo challenges against the NPC gatekeeper to even be able to attempt nightmare mode content in a given role.

 

And that's really good there, because nightmare content there is brutal in ways nothing here will ever be allowed to be.

 

So, that's where I do dungeons and raids when I want to feel like I had a workout on that front, and the investigation missions there... Foof!

 

I'm a pretty smart gal, and some of that games missions have made me struggle and fumble around like an idiot, in good ways.

 

That game is a great game for anyone that likes hard combat and sometimes very viciously unforgiving puzzles and mysteries.

 

SWTOR? Well, A fair few of my friends play here. They don't, most of them, give a hoot about feeling challenged by anything here, and some feel that things here are actually challenging.

 

Different skill levels, different preferences.

 

If they ever come up with a game that's challenging like Secret World and set in Star Wars, I'll probably die and never ever play anything else ever again.

[Deyjarl]

Actually, it is 100% your responsibility to ensure you have a fun time.

 

You actually think the suggest to do Heroic Star Fortress with no companion is reasonable?

 

So they would go from it being too easy to basically impossible. And you all are defending that suggestion. #facepalm

[annabethchase]

Why is a "challenging game experience" good? I don't ever want to lose in solo play for any reason short of leaving the keyboard.

[Deyjarl]

Why is a "challenging game experience" good? I don't ever want to lose in solo play for any reason short of leaving the keyboard.

 

Great if that is what YOU want. Not everyone enjoys that.

 

And why does it have to be one or the other?

 

Do you ask that of people who compete in sports? It is the same mindset. Some people like to face challenges and over come them.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Deyjarl

[Frenesi]

-snip-

 

Touche )

 

Guess I'm doing myself a favor by not caring about alliance system

Edited November 25, 2015 by Frenesi

[silvershadows]

Why is a "challenging game experience" good? I don't ever want to lose in solo play for any reason short of leaving the keyboard.

 

Because it's satisfying to approach a challenge and conquer it.

 

What kind of satisfaction do you get out of steamrolling things or getting things for minimal effort? Isn't it better to look at a piece of gear, or a title, or a decoration and say, "Hey... I earned that."?

Edited November 25, 2015 by silvershadows

[Bobs_YourUncle]

All true, but players could stick to components of the game that have always been challenging instead of being interested in making solo content a struggle. The fact that heroic missions will no longer be approachable by all levels with any companion breaks the entire system for me. I don't know why I would continue to pay for this, not to mention tactical flashpoints were ruined with 4.0.

 

On one hand I know those companions were broken, on other hand, I really hate dying to pulls i'm expected to complete solo. Colicoids on Balmorra are still destroying my 42 guardian, the burst healing is just bad.

 

Heroics were a challenge for me, and the heroic SF is supposed to be challenging to solo.

[Trobon]

You actually think the suggest to do Heroic Star Fortress with no companion is reasonable?

 

So they would go from it being too easy to basically impossible. And you all are defending that suggestion. #facepalm

 

Could you please point me to where I said that exactly? What I said, and stand by, is that it is up to each one of us to curate our own fun. There is no way for Bioware to make the game fun for every single one of us.

 

When the nerfs hit I was no longer having fun in Heroics. So I stopped playing them. If I had an option where I would have found them fun I would have taken it, but unfortunately there wasn't so I focused on what was fun for me.

 

Now if you have mastered Star Forge to the extent where you feel there is no challenge then you have two options. One is you stop doing them. The other is you find an artificial challenge that you can put on yourself to test your limits as a player. This could be turning off a companion ability and running with that one ability off until you've mastered that. Or it could be running with a step down of equipment until you've mastered that. Or it could be seeing how fast you can run through the instance and then trying to beat your time.

 

Again, this isn't a new concept. If you master a game you can stop playing or you can seek out new challenges. When people mastered Super Mario they did "no hit runs" like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cijcSEostE. There are people who have Twitch channels devoted to speed runs. When people felt like they knew a lot about DnD Online they formed Hardcore Style guilds where you deleted your character if you died. Hell, Star Wars Galaxies was built on the entire idea of curating your own fun.

 

Bioware cant make this game everything for everyone. It's impossible. What might be challenging for you might be easy for someone else and impossible for yet someone else. The only person who has control over what you do to enjoy the game is you.

[Deyjarl]

Could you please point me to where I said that exactly?.

 

I didn't say you did. But that is what the OP was posting about. So what you come in a thread and don't even bother to actually respond to the point he was actually referring to?

 

Here I'll help you and quote it again:

 

To all of you telling players to turn off companion abilities, dismiss them etc.. STOP!!!