Companion Change Feedback

[Rogirek]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

Just throwing this out there, but I really hope you don't revert healing companions back to as powerful as they were! They were way too strong, and trivialized almost all content while leveling. Not to mention world PvP became very frustrating; it was basically CC the healer companion and kill the person fast, or they wouldn't die at all. I definitely appreciated the healing companion nerf.

[Alssaran]

This right here shows Bioware's ignorance... Did they not pay attention to the fact people are pulling and stopping their subs in protest of the nerfing and want full restoration of what we had? We're not asking for "buffs" *******es! We're asking you to put our comps back as they were... Nice job listening... Be proud when you **** this up and cost yourselves less money when more and more people stop their subs...

 

No. Most people complain that they are too weak and that the content is too tideous/long.

 

A buff that increases their strength and shortens the content somewhat can help. I think only about 10% are asking for a total reverse patch, the rest is just asking for a higher influence scaling/slight buff to make soloing stuff possible again, while at the same time decrease the time you spend in heroics by 20-30%.

 

So...you are asking for a total reverse patch. "People" aren't.

[Kiesu]

Just throwing this out there, but I really hope you don't revert healing companions back to as powerful as they were! They were way too strong, and trivialized almost all content while leveling. Not to mention world PvP became very frustrating; it was basically CC the healer companion and kill the person fast, or they wouldn't die at all. I definitely appreciated the healing companion nerf.

I noticed the same and share this request.

 

So...you are asking for a total reverse patch. "People" aren't.

 

Indeed most people seem to admit pre-nerf was still too strong, but after nerf was too drastic too. So, with all logic, people are mostly asking middle ground solution.

[kodrac]

Look Bioware just change the damn comps back good God! I went through all the Herioc 2+ on Dromund Kaas by myself with hardly any issues but as soon as I hit Nar Shaddaa, bam, I'm getting my *** handed to me cause of the nerfing and that's a low lvl world my characters a lvl 65 it should not be that hard...

 

I use all my comps as healers I liked that. I fought they healed me and made the game fun... Now I'm lucky if I kill one person cause the comps too a major hit....

 

I could careless about the tank and other parts I just want the healing part resorted.

 

You're right it shouldn't be that hard.... and it isn't. What the h*ll are you doing? Or better yet, not doing? I just took my 65 Engineering sniper in 190 gear with rank 9 influence healer through all of the Voss H2s and had no difficulties whatsoever. My healer was busy but never was I near death - got to half health once on a group of 3 strongs and 1 champ. When I finished I gave him some gifts and he leveled to 10 and his stats were where they were pre-4.0 when they used 192s. How did you survive before the expansion?

[Canareth]

Just throwing this out there, but I really hope you don't revert healing companions back to as powerful as they were! They were way too strong, and trivialized almost all content while leveling. Not to mention world PvP became very frustrating; it was basically CC the healer companion and kill the person fast, or they wouldn't die at all. I definitely appreciated the healing companion nerf.

 

All content while leveling and intended endgame difficult content. Heroic SF didn't feel hard with Super Lana, even if she was a Level 11.

[Chrilin]

I will resub as soon as the patch goes live and, it is proven that the buff to companions is adequate.

 

I do not expect them to be set back to 4.0 levels.

 

My thanks to Bioware for making a tough choice in a short amount of time.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Chrilin

[LordArtemis]

I would like to follow up with this comment, since some folks still seem fixated on a particular point.

 

I would point out that prior to 4.0 combat WAS trivial, it WAS a formality....because you could overlevel content. When you did so, you were a god, your comp was a god, nothing, and I mean NOTHING could even make a dent.

 

Like I said...folks would solo world bosses. Falling would kill you...and that was pretty much it.

This is a dead fact people. You outlevel the content, you are a god. Now, the difference between 4.0 and prior to 4.0 is this....

 

1) You had a small chance, in some situations, to actually die. It could happen, it didnt matter what your level was at the time.

 

2) Folks that would run content at level in order to have the proper challenge could no longer do so. The companions were so powerful that even at the proper level, in most situations, there was little if any challenge.

 

So, really, the experience for both sides had changed, advantage to those that wanted it easy.

 

Then, with 4.0.2, it flipped. Now, you had a good chance to die, so you could no longer go easy mode on old content if you wished...but the challenge stood for those that wanted it.

 

Advantage to those that wanted challenge.

 

The simple fact is, before 4.0 you had the ability to do both...you could do the content at level, choosing to outfit your companion as you saw fit and customize your level of challenge....or you could simply outlevel the content and enjoy your easy ride as you experienced the story.

 

The changes brought an end to all of that.

 

Hopefully, whatever changes they make, they will find a way to provide an acceptable challenge to those that want one, while still providing an easy path for the old content, including H2+ and dailies in those old areas.

 

A level 65 player, in decent gear, should not be challenged on a level 26 planet if they do not wish to have a challenge. This is the obvious truth of this game, and has been for years.

[BLJM]

I'm taking a break from SWTOR for a while.

 

Should this pull in negative feedback from the community, then so be it. I've been involved with this game for a few years now, and have seen a steady decline in weakening all of my favorite toons to the point where I have just about limited myself to one, the Gunslinger.

 

Since this most recent patch I find that the game has gone fubar.

 

First, I can no longer use my level 50 companion as a viable replacement in HM flashpoints should we lose a healer or tank. They have lost all the ump and awesomeness.

 

Tactical Flashpoints are pulling in players who know nothing about class role in addition to not knowing flashpoint mechanics.

 

Content has gotten old and boring.

 

Tactical and HM's have gotten just stupid hard that lately I cant get through HM's because of the whatevers at this point.

 

So I've lost the enjoyment of the game and its brought about frustration.

 

I don't even know if I'll be back but that just could be because I'm sadly disappointed and a bit pissed off at what they've done. May the force be with you.

[CosmicCleric]

OMG! Who was the moron that thought cutting it this deeply was a good idea?

 

Why can't you Devs get you collective heads out of your ***es? Do you not understand how to tweak something? You don't make huge jumps, you make small corrections until you get it right. Leave it to the Devs to over tune something and then totally screw the pooch and massively under tune it in the span of 1 patch. Damn idiots.

 

Don't think it was the devs. Just a hunch.

[Beragis]

Here is my first, attempt at running content post companion nerf. Both runs were against the Star Fortress on Alderan. I also think it might be more important showing the level of gear as well as average stats.

 

Sorcerer - Madness Spec

Level: 65

Earpiece: 220

Implant: 216, 208

Wrist: 216

Relic: Both 208 PVP - 186 augment

Lightsaber: 208 with 208 augment

Offhand: 216 with 208 Augment

Head: 216 with 208 augment

Gloves: 216 with 208 Augment - Set Bonus

Belt: 208 with 186 augment

Legs: 216 with 186 augment

Boots: 216 with 208 Augment - Set Bonus

 

Talos Drelic: Healer, 25 Influence

Stats Buffed: Mastery 5402, End: 6019, Power: 1910, Crit: 523, Alac: 756, Acc: 730, Presence: 2335

 

Alderan Star Fortress: Solo Mode

This missions was fairly easy to get through with higher level gear and a level 25 influence companion.

Burned Down all the following named very quickly: Adan Tranik, Praetorean, Distribution Oversear, Gav Moros, EPHEMERIS

 

Alderan Star Fortress: Heroic Mode

This missions was ridiculous, I had way too many deaths, and it was just tedious to get through. I had the Central Network Access Activated, and three out of the four power ups, only missing the turrets.

 

I started off fine, got to the Skytrooper Praetorean which was a long, but fun fight, I didn't drop below 85 % Health, although Talos went to about 30 percent a few times.

 

Tres Parion - Could not kill - many deaths. Talos could not survive, no matter what I tried.

 

So I went onto the rest of the missions. The first part of the mission where the knights came out. Was insane. Took several tries to knock down just one knight. Can only CC one. Took four deaths to get them all down, one at a time. They didn't keep CC'd long. At least your progress in this fight was kept once you left.

 

Also I noticed that Heroic Moment force choke did not choke them long as it use to, and the amount of damage for all was way less than I remember.

 

Second fight was OK. No problem.

 

Third Fight 4 deaths - Talos in Heal, Tank and DPS. DPS best but still pure dumb luck when won.

 

Fourth fight was an exercise in pure futility. It seemed harder than the pervious fights. Five deaths - Talos broke CC once. Gave up for futility, especially since you have to start at the beginning of the fight. Never once did I knock down any Gold. I don't think this one would be doable with the Robby the Robot god character solo mode companion you get in the Shadow of Revan missions.

 

Now that I have given the information about trying Star Fortress in both difficulties with only a companion. I have a question, why would we need to give Bioware information on how we are faring doing missions with Companions Solo only?

 

I can not believe that Bioware's developers, and designers, do not have the tools to analyze the numbers that are occurring live on the servers, to see how things are going. Especially since I watched several videos of the lead developers mentioning doing some analysis of what types of missions players were doing when changes for 4.0 were developed.

 

Looking at time, number of deaths, average damage and healing going out, average incoming etc. Also do the developers ever logon and play live with non god mode characters and group up with the average players to see how people actually play the game, and whether they have troubles? If not Bioware should think about doing this.

[Quraswren]

UGH companions do not need a buff... Looks like my days with this game are probably gonna be over if the over buff comps again.

 

Use one of the ones that are not leveled and you should be good to go. You got 22 of them if your playing at all.

[parnormality]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

Just Think of all the extra effort that was put into this a month after launch. Which could of been better spent on all the other issues.

 

It honestly would of taken a dev a few hours of testing to fix all this.

 

1) during testing_Companions are to strong they can solo kill everything and the player doesn't have to do a thing ( before launch)

2) Nerf- Now I die more and feel like I'm spending more time worrying about my companion then being able to focus on the task.

3) Now I can play the game DPS in a timely manner, help my companion when the moment calls. Still feel like my companion is usfule, while being able to play through the game.

4) After launch- OK now I can start addressing the other game issues since I took a few hours to test the companions before launch.

 

 

Maybe 5-6 star fortress runs and a handful of heroics, this could of been solved. Instead we a month on it, back and forth. Waste of time and money.

Edited November 21, 2015 by parnormality

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Use one of the ones that are not leveled and you should be good to go. You got 22 of them if your playing at all.

 

I was using one with 12... I thought the whole point of this was supposed to be you could play with the ones you wanted and not be locked into playing with dumb companions. Also playing through the story with level 1 comps was easy mode so I can say for certain you're incorrect.

[Erasimus]

I would like to follow up with this comment, since some folks still seem fixated on a particular point.

 

I would point out that prior to 4.0 combat WAS trivial, it WAS a formality....because you could overlevel content. When you did so, you were a god, your comp was a god, nothing, and I mean NOTHING could even make a dent.

 

Like I said...folks would solo world bosses. Falling would kill you...and that was pretty much it.

This is a dead fact people. You outlevel the content, you are a god. Now, the difference between 4.0 and prior to 4.0 is this....

 

1) You had a small chance, in some situations, to actually die. It could happen, it didnt matter what your level was at the time.

 

2) Folks that would run content at level in order to have the proper challenge could no longer do so. The companions were so powerful that even at the proper level, in most situations, there was little if any challenge.

 

So, really, the experience for both sides had changed, advantage to those that wanted it easy.

 

Then, with 4.0.2, it flipped. Now, you had a good chance to die, so you could no longer go easy mode on old content if you wished...but the challenge stood for those that wanted it.

 

Advantage to those that wanted challenge.

 

The simple fact is, before 4.0 you had the ability to do both...you could do the content at level, choosing to outfit your companion as you saw fit and customize your level of challenge....or you could simply outlevel the content and enjoy your easy ride as you experienced the story.

 

The changes brought an end to all of that.

 

Hopefully, whatever changes they make, they will find a way to provide an acceptable challenge to those that want one, while still providing an easy path for the old content, including H2+ and dailies in those old areas.

 

A level 65 player, in decent gear, should not be challenged on a level 26 planet if they do not wish to have a challenge. This is the obvious truth of this game, and has been for years.

 

I disagree with the last statement. If they are going to keep level-sync then planet level should become irrelevant, which was/is probably their intention along with making it reasonable for characters of all levels to group together even for planetary quests. To accomplish that goal will take some tweaking which I believe they will do or at least attempt. I simply can't believe that the majority of max level players spent their time farming low-level heroics, perhaps world bosses, but not heroics.

 

What has been true in the past isn't necessarily true for the future and depends on what the company sees as the future of the game. We can only speculate on the true rationale for the sweeping changes in 4.0.

 

My personal guess was they were attempting to find a formula to retain most of the faithful but to also attract new players that wouldn't necessarily play SWTOR just because it is Star Wars. It was also probably an attempt, with fewer resources and smaller expansions (more like DLC's) to extend the playability of the game by giving people things to do outside of the current content and encourage more people to subscribe and stay subscribed.

 

I worked as far as getting former players to give it a try, I'm one of them. I played for the first two years but stopped well before SOR and only came back to check out the changes. I was very disappointed with the strength of companions in 4.0 and liked the changes in 4.0.2 (even tho I did die a lot). I'll wait and see what the adjustments are before I decide whether to stay subscribed.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Erasimus

[Quraswren]

I was using one with 12... I thought the whole point of this was supposed to be you could play with the ones you wanted and not be locked into playing with dumb companions. Also playing through the story with level 1 comps was easy mode so I can say for certain you're incorrect.

 

Story mode in general is easy mode. It was never going to be hard.

 

As far as playing with whatever companion you want. Thats a joke when your companios were taken away and are no part of the story. However, might not want to level that one if you want to make sure you waste a bit more time in an already tedious grind. Do that yourself. Don't make others join you that want no part of it.

 

That crap is grindy enough as it is.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Quraswren

[Rddy]

I have some co-workers that play as well and we had a bit of a discussion on this today. This is how we see it... Before KOTFE we had basically a 32 oz. drink for the companions. When the upgrade took place we got a 48 oz. drink (companion) and it was nice not to have to rest as much. Then came 4.0.2 and the drink (companion) went down to about a 16 oz. drink. We think that going back to the 32 oz. would work. Also, on the flipside I notice that we no longer have to repair our gear, which is nice and all but not something I mind doing.

 

~ Jhidrac - Jedi Knight

~ Ni'Rod - Jedi Knight

[Jeweledleah]

I was using one with 12... I thought the whole point of this was supposed to be you could play with the ones you wanted and not be locked into playing with dumb companions. Also playing through the story with level 1 comps was easy mode so I can say for certain you're incorrect.

 

playing through the story was easy since launch. it was kind of a point. baring a few overturned encounters? it was never particularly hard. I mean.....

 

in a sorc story there is a point where you have to kill a certain champion level character. and first time i did it, I had some trouble, Khem Val died but I got him. only to realize that I was supposed to use an item that would make that champion into a weak mob. when i did that fight again on my assassin? it was over in seconds and both Khem and my sin were at full health.

 

and that's just one example. the only time I had trouble with leveling back in those early days, before f2p and everything is when I went to quesh with gear for myself AND my companion that was around lvl 25. it was early on, it was my first character and I was still working out the moddable gearing thing (not to mention - that was before planetary commendation consolidations). a friend of mine crafted me and Khem some blue armoring and mods... and leveling became faceroll again. the funny thing is.... the quest reward greens would have been upgrades as well.. I just didn't like them because I liked my orange pieces (that was also back before appearance tab)

 

it was never hard. as long as you kept up with gear for yourself and your companion? it was ALWAYS easy.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[Tulmara]

At least they're listening. For the most part I don't mind the changes, our guild only has 3 players so a companion makes up the 4th. We still get by. Soloing has become more interesting but longer, you do have to make use of CCs, stuns, interrupts. Before it was like Healbot in Revan, stand in fire as much as you like and not have to worry about it. And it did make my role as healer redundant.

[Fellow-Canadian]

Tank mobs are pretty bad for threat. So often I kill the mob before the tank ever gets aggro. Healers seem like they could use a little buff. DPS seem fine.

 

Also Bioware, if you're spending this much effort speaking to the community about companion balance and spending 0 time with class balance you might be focusing on the wrong part of the game here right now. Class balance is terrible for PVE and PVP.

[Gwena]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

Thank you for the prompt response. I was getting concerned that Bioware was going to just ignore this or post a brief "working as intended" and brush off all concerns. I look forward to Monday's post.

 

I hope you will consider carefully the effect of Influence and how it scales based on rank. At the lowest ranks (~1-10), companions should be useful and not seem weak even without legacy buffs. This encourages people to try using new companions (of which we get a lot!), and helps newer players.

 

Also, please consider that getting a single companion to a very high Influence rank does not happen without a significant amount of time and/or resources, and likely not without deliberate intent. Pre-patch, I felt it was worthwhile to get my main's primary companion to Influence 47, and I had intended to get at least two companions per character to max Influence. But as it is now? All that effort to make my companions go from "pathetic" to "mediocre" in combat just doesn't seem worth it.

 

One more thing that I ask you to consider: the, shall we say, less than optimal companion AI and simplified skill sets. They should be good enough to compensate for things like being a healer with only a melee basic attack, and for any mid-combat coffee breaks they may take.

 

In regards to the H2's: these are basically the dailies (well, weeklies, but there are a ton of them) of 4.0, like Yavin was for 3.0. I can't speak for everyone, but I want to zip through my dailies, not slog through them. And my companions certainly felt more useful in 3.x than they do now, especially since their healing is currently so lousy that I am sticking with DPS or tank stance for now.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Hopefully an optional system that caters to everyone ( as much as possible ) is what we will get.

 

I doubt it though, BWA are so far removed from intelligent design choices lately that whatever we get will continue to divide opinion and the community.

 

I guess they are happy that Battlefront has turned out be pretty underwhelming and won't be overly stealing too much from their consumer base.

[Braggalo]

Hey there

 

I do not often post into forum, as I'm usually content with the way solo gameplay is scheduled. This time however I need to comment:

 

I main a burst scoundrel atm (great burst, medium single target dps, zero aoe), and since some players in my guild were complaining about the difficulty of heroic SF after tuesday's patch I decided to give it a try.

 

Having cleared RAV and ToS HM 8/10 (with above-mentioned scoundrel) I consider myself to be fairly acquainted with my class and mechanics in general.

 

To my surprise, clearing SF heroic solo with above-mentioned dps was no faceroll, but instead included CC'ing golden adds, keeping HoTs on me ALL the time, and pulling def cds in a strategic manner. While this can easily be expected from a raid experienced player, it is highly unlikely, that a " casual" (and I in no way see this as perogative) player can be expected to accomplish this without a lot of practise.

 

Therefore I have to renew my old opinion about the constant complaining in this forum (being something like: "Start learning your class, learn about def cds and so forth) into a: " if you want to accomplish chievos like "one for all" you will need to confront SF Heroic strategically and with a minimum of 208/216 TOKEN gear", provided you don't run DF Nim half asleep.

 

Thus the following goal has most certainly not been achieved:

 

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

For those players logging into the game for a relaxing after-work evening, the above statement is most certainly not true. Is it feasible?

It is, but without pulling a lot of CDs in the right time ( thus countermanding the "casual" player): I don't think so.

 

Finally a word on doing this as healer or tank:

 

Much much easier, since as tank you can mitigate the damage on your comp, and as healer you have scarce probs healing a tank comp and yourself, tha main issue is, when you dps and can't thraten all enemies, this will result in your comp dying Quite Quickly from add damage he can't heal (anymore).

 

Still: Generally comps were way OP at 4.0 but this extreme nerf is too far the other direction even for someone who still manages heroic mode alone, suggesting it's nearly impossible for someone who doesn't have the leisure to dig into a min-maxed rotation plus CCs plus selfheal plusplusplus

 

Fazitum: If you manage to either find a middle way between 4.0 and 4.0.2 or create an option to toggle OP comps off for those who wish to be challenged and return it to 4.0 for those who don't you'll be fine I think.

 

best Fina

 

P.S. and EDIT: According to statements from Bioware/EA employees at the cologne fair the VAST majority of players prefer casual solo-playing, thus an approach towards those would - economically speaking - be the wisest approach. I personnally like the challenge, but my guess is: Many do not. If you can accomplish a compromis, so much the better.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Braggalo
typos and new content

[LordArtemis]

Well, if this comes down the way I would like to see it.....

 

Increase of base stats for companions by 5 to 10 percent and/or presence/influence effect boosted by 5 to 10 percent.

Increase of healing power by 10 to 25 percent.

Ability to toggle level sync.

Ability to toggle presence.

 

This would provide, IMO, the wide range of difficulty that most players seek....players could enjoy the early content on easy mode or find a challenge anywhere in the game, their choice.

[Psicotic]

Well, if this comes down the way I would like to see it.....

 

Increase of base stats for companions by 5 to 10 percent and/or presence/influence effect boosted by 5 to 10 percent.

Increase of healing power by 10 to 25 percent.

Ability to toggle level sync.

Ability to toggle presence.

 

This would provide, IMO, the wide range of difficulty that most players seek....players could enjoy the early content on easy mode or find a challenge anywhere in the game, their choice.

 

On the case of healing i will be more on the 30 - 35 percent at least, unless they fix at same time that stoping healing lapsus the companions are showing atm but thats my point of view

[ryniloym]

Bullet 3 is absolutely NOT the case.

 

Level 65 Commando • gear all 216-224 (6-piece bonus), minus relics (PvP 208's) • Assault spec • Senya • Heals • level 27 • Higher level Heroic missions (Voss & Makeb specifically).

 

If your goal is "medium" difficulty for Heroic 2, something is off. "Medium" should mean mistakes should be manageable for most...that is most certainly not the case. A mistake like breaking a CC will mean death. Pulling a second mob would be impossible to manage.

 

 

And I love how you guys think you have time to lollygag and review the feedback Eric...once the weekend hits and the majority of players have seen what you've done, it'll be too late to address it for some. I suggest you guys move with a little urgency for once...you've already done damaged...don't amplify it with more inaction.

 

I agree with Tux. And I hate agreeing with Tux.