Companion Change Feedback

[Ghisallo]

I dont hate anyone. I just want to ensure you that you are part of a small minority.

 

If you actually need a ego boost, show your raid gear to your realm or guild contacts.

 

 

hate to break it to you but there is no majority in this game, just multiple minorities, some bigger than others. The person who needs the ego boost is the person who needs to claim they are in a majority with nothing objective to support he claim.

[Artaniz]

But do you want the companion to be more powerful than you? Because that's what we had during 4.0. I want the companion to be like the sidekick and my character to be the main hero.

 

I want a rank 50 companion to have more hps than me and be effective , a comp is an ai and they tend to suck , so yes it needs better stats to be equally as effective as a PC , and i want after 50 rnks to finally have someone on equal footing otherwise what is the point of grinding all the influence.

[Blurch]

But do you want the companion to be more powerful than you? Because that's what we had during 4.0. I want the companion to be like the sidekick and my character to be the main hero.

 

When you playing a healer YES I want them more powerful so I can work on my job keeping them alive and not trying to keep them and myself alive and doing dps.

[Beachdudeca]

Your level : 65

Roughly Average Item Rating :216 - 220

Discipline Operative Healing

Companion : Scorpio

Companion role : Tried Heals . Tank and DPS

Companion Influence level 37

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) Yavin, CZ , SF H Voss and Bel

Your personal experience while playing this content : Experienced

 

Using Scorpio in Tank , Heals , and DPS , all seemed normal when doing Yavin & CZ , but to be honest thats much easier content then a SF HM

 

In the HM , I changed form doing Operative DPS to Operative Healing

 

Scorpio as a DPS seemed normal , though far more easy to kill then before 4.0 , it was as if she was naked and just ha Hit points ,

 

as a Tank , it was pretty worthless , other then the ability to grab agro because there seemed to be no damage mitigation

 

The worst stance , was Heals when the comp just shut down and contributed nothing at all when we reach the final boss figtht of SF HM VOSS , , and as the Boss spamed heals faster then we could get our interrupts to come off cool down (2 of us) our companions both in heal spec just stood there until they died

 

in the end we found ourselves needing a Player doing Heals , and Tanking to defeat the final boss ,

 

With the Companion Tank and Heals being broken it makes game play more then a challenge if you can not locate players to fill these 2 roles

[Psicotic]

thats exactly what eric wanted by posting that.

 

At the end we will get a placebo patch.

 

Thats why i keep unsub until the real numbers and performance on live server are done then i see if i back or this was all.

[Blurch]

Let it run out, see what they announce then resub based on that.

 

That's what I'm doing. Even something as simple were sorry we goofed were working on it but wont be after the holidays before we get it fixed would be enough for me to resub.

[Rosiemae]

thats exactly what eric wanted by posting that.

 

At the end we will get a placebo patch.

You are most likely correct. If that's the case, this is the last subscription money they will get from me. I'll be a F2P 4 Life, lmao!

Thirty dollars is a small price to pay to try for myself whatever solution they offer.

I really don't have any faith or trust that they will do the right thing, but at the end of the day, I'll have stuck it out to the very very bitter end. And having done that, I'll be satisfied to leave the years of effort and CC purchases behind if they screw the casual player base yet again.

[geschmonz]

In essence it is a bias or prejudice against a name without bothering to know anything about it. People seem to NEED a boogie man and that is what the term raid has become for some.

 

Actually it is the group of raiders that is most dominant on game forums.

 

And it is their feedback which leads to changes as like the companion nerf.

 

They are no boogie man, they are the vocal minority with the loudest voice. They manage to destroy MMORPG gameplay for the majority of players just by their focus on competition and challenges. All of those actually only adresses a very few, in special in a game thats being made with the story as main incentive to play the game.

 

I just repeat myself if i say:

 

SWTOR is great because of its story. And it was great in KOTFE due to its accessibility to solo players.

SWTOR is not great because of raids.

SWTOR is not great because of dungeons.

 

The accessibility part was attacked by the hardcore gamers / raiders on the forums since patch 4.0 went life. And the consequence is that, that devs with the same mindset listened to them, and actually managed to destroy the fun for exactly those people KOTFE managed to adress at start.

[Alssaran]

Because this isn't one off behaviour. BioWare's only consistency is that they're consistently inept. They've lost a significant portion of the userbase's respect and a larger portion of player trust. How many times do you have to be lied to or disappointed before you turn on the person lying to and disappointing you?

 

They are allowed to voice their displeasure in any way they see fit, within legal and societal bounds. If that bothers you, perhaps you really should listen to your own advice and leave the boards, if you're not willing to extend to others the ability to voice their complaints, concerns, and criticism?

 

I'm here to have a constructive debate with people about what could be done to improve the game, the companion system, the pvp system and overall accessibility of the content for new players. That's what an MMORPG forum is for. But I also excercise my right to point out when people do nothing productive and only feel like giving low blows to the developers, without making any constructive criticism.

 

I see everyones right to voice concern in a constructive and positive way. His complaint? It could have been voiced as:

So, how big of a change are we talking about? 10%? That'd not be enough. Maybe 20-25%?

 

That is immediately stating that he thinks 10% wouldn't solve the issue, maybe even include a reason why, while at the same time suggesting an alternative fix that works. However, he choose to simply deal a low blow to the developers. Yes, I call people out on that bull**it. And I won't leave the forums for it. You don't like that? Fine, I can live with that. I don't need approval from an unknown avatar in a forum.

 

Take that anyway you want. This community has proven time and time again that even positive changes are lost on them. Bioware could immediately take the patch back, yet people would still feel like giving Bioware the kick for it. And that's the truth, you know that. This community has evolved to be one of the most toxic and disrespecting communities that I have ever encountered in an MMORPG. And that's why I call him out on the bull***t.

 

You know what? Bioware could also have ignored the issue. Completely. And what would that result in? That 500 people leave the game for good. Fine. Instead of actually saying: "Alright. This was one mess. Glad you are saying it will get a change. Let's see what that means." and waiting for monday to come, people immediately jump out of line and spout the negative stuff, believing "I'll cancel my sub!" is a valid way of offering constructive criticism for a change.

 

Now don't go around protecting such behaviour. He is allowed to voice concern. He is also allowed to voice displeasure. But the way you are communicating is big part of that. Every shop in Germany would throw me out the door when I go on to harass their employees and throw negative sarcastic remarks at them. Why? Because that's not how you behave. Simple as that.

 

They are allowed to voice it in any way they see fit, within legal boundaries. That doesn't mean I have to give a **** about what he is saying, or that I can't call him out on his negative attitude.

 

Gamers not liking it is what is forcing change now. Nerfing H2's isn't what gamers want it seems. Hopefully BW knows at least that much.

 

No. Gamers aren't the issue. A minority (and that's what this is again) blowing the issue way out of proportion is. There are a thousand people who believe complaining about the change on the forum means they are a majority. The people who scream the loudest aren't always the biggest group. What happened the last few times?

 

Slot machines? Ravager exploit? Utilities? Crafting changes? Running old heroics? 4.0 companion changes? Removing NiM?

 

All those things followed the same pattern. A minority of the playerbase kept swarming the forum and assumed majority/my opinion is the most represented and the most valid stance. The game kept running after all of those controversies above, it would keep running after this one. It seems that people who want to revert all the changes give a **** about the fact that some people actually like the change, which probably amounts to the same percentage of the total playerbase that absolutely hate it. Yet they call them out as elitist, whereas their opinion is totally unbiased and heavenly pure.

 

You'll get the patch that's coming. Like it. Hate it. Unsubscribe for it. But stop bothering with those "I unsubscribed!" post. Nobody in the community cares, and it just goes to show how important you think you are. Nobody in the history of MMO communities has ever cared about an unsubscribe post. Never. But that's what many in this community don't get.

 

Gamers aren't the issues. A minority of the games community is the issue, which rage and stomp so long until they get their way.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Alssaran

[Kiesu]

Actually it is the group of raiders that is most dominant on game forums.

During the discussion on lvl sync the most noisy group on the forum was casuals worrying about having to do content on their level again...

[Quraswren]

Sorry but where they say will just be 10% now you got me worry again :/

 

I was just quoting what someone else said and how we should be happy because it's "something".

 

BW has to be better than just something.

 

But do you want the companion to be more powerful than you? Because that's what we had during 4.0. I want the companion to be like the sidekick and my character to be the main hero.

 

Then use a lower level one. You got about 22 of them. A level 50 should be amazing. If their better than me. Then Ill role play a little and see I trained them well.

 

If I don't want them to be as good. I got 22 to choose from of various influence levels. Ill customize my experience.

[geschmonz]

hate to break it to you but there is no majority in this game, just multiple minorities, some bigger than others. The person who needs the ego boost is the person who needs to claim they are in a majority with nothing objective to support he claim.

 

I have quotes from designers (in this case Jeremey Gaffney who once worked for carbine) of other MMORPGs about the fact that 60-65% of all MMORPG players are solo players.

 

Raids harder than WoW LFR had been completed by less than 20% of the players referring to raid statistics from World of Warcraft.

 

If you got statistics which actually show that raiders are the majority in this game, or if you got other numbers from other devs stating how many solo players the typical MMORPG has, you are free to argument them.

Edited November 21, 2015 by geschmonz

[Quraswren]

thats exactly what eric wanted by posting that.

 

At the end we will get a placebo patch.

 

That sir is my bigger worry. A PR move and explanation with a slight buff that shows they didn't put any real thought into it at all nor hear what gamers were saying about how bad the nerf made the game and the massive grind they created.

[geschmonz]

During the discussion on lvl sync the most noisy group on the forum was casuals worrying about having to do content on their level again...

 

It is one of the rare moments players of other playstyles show up in the forums when your group of players managed to completely destroy it with biased feedback.

 

Solo players and normal players usually dont show up in forums. Only if the game they play severely gets ****ed up. As in like this case.

Edited November 21, 2015 by geschmonz

[Magnouss]

I want a rank 50 companion to have more hps than me and be effective , a comp is an ai and they tend to suck , so yes it needs better stats to be equally as effective as a PC , and i want after 50 rnks to finally have someone on equal footing otherwise what is the point of grinding all the influence.

 

Yeah, when you add a grind to 50 levels of influence, you need to make it worthwhile otherwise people won't do it. At 50, they should be very close to a player's effectiveness imo. Otherwise, just revert it to pre-4.0 and let us gear our companions again.

[Adaarye]

You are most likely correct. If that's the case, this is the last subscription money they will get from me. I'll be a F2P 4 Life, lmao!

Thirty dollars is a small price to pay to try for myself whatever solution they offer.

I really don't have any faith or trust that they will do the right thing, but at the end of the day, I'll have stuck it out to the very very bitter end. And having done that, I'll be satisfied to leave the years of effort and CC purchases behind if they screw the casual player base yet again.

 

Oops posted ^^^^ that under my second account, lol. I was re-upping the both of them and forgot who I was for a second.

But yeah at the least, another month will give me time to sort out my accounts to prepare for f2p in the event the patch is not casual player friendly and removes the grind.

Keeping my fingers crossed but still not hopeful based on this game's history.

[Ovaline]

Actually it is the group of raiders that is most dominant on game forums.

 

The accessibility part was attacked by the hardcore gamers / raiders on the forums since patch 4.0 went life. And the consequence is that, that devs with the same mindset listened to them, and actually managed to destroy the fun for exactly those people KOTFE managed to adress at start.

 

A few things:

 

SWTOR does not have a community of super hardcore poopsocking nolife raiders like in the old days of WoW. The end game has never been substantial enough to foster that kind of community

 

The people who wanted the companion nerfs are mostly average or maybe slightly above average players. Not the elitist hardcore raiders you keep mentioning.

 

4.0 took away most of the need for player input in single player content and planetary heroics. There's nothing inherently elitist about wanting a game that requires the player to contribute in fights rather than companions that are powerful enough to steamroll everything.

 

The game in its current state is still very, very accessible. I'm struggling to think of what other games you might have played in the past that set such a low bar that caused you to think 4.0.2 made the game super hard.

[LydMekk]

Even the Jesusbot have the same issues. Just ran Ilum on my geared lvl60 in solomode. I was sc****** along on 30% health, frantically using all DCDs etc. Khem as DPS mode alongside. Founder, all buffs/max presence etc.

 

FIX!

 

(Don't tell me they took a week off without fixing this... ( )

 

[Blurch]

Hey folks,

 

First off, we want to thank all of you for your feedback about Companion balance following 4.0.2. As we go into the weekend, we wanted you to know that we have gone through this thread, the forums, Reddit, and social media to gather everyone’s perspectives. We have come out of this with quite a few action items that we are going to take, including buffs for Companions. On Monday, we are going to release a forum post highlighting our plans to address current Companion balance, along with the state of Heroic Missions and Star Fortress.

 

Thank you all once again for your feedback.

 

-eric

 

Wonder if my 1:12:19 video I did doing the SF had anything to do with it. Might have been a reason for the delay they fell asleep watching it:) . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFq4WH9hn70. No commentary for the reason I knew I was going to be using some colorful language to say the least especial towards the end.

[Psicotic]

Solo players and normal players usually dont show up in forums. Only if the game they play severely gets ****ed up. As in like this case.

 

Thats true in my case i never publish on forums in almost 4 years until now

[Kiesu]

If you got statistics which actually show that raiders are the majority in this game, or if you got other numbers from other devs static how many solo players the typical MMORPG has, you are free to argument them.

Pretty sure f2p/preferred is the majority, which makes forums minority already, not to mention minority of subs also visit forums.

 

Solo players and normal players usually dont show up in forums. Only if the game they play severely gets ****ed up. As in like this case.

Thats funny. You consider me an elitist raider, yet I'm pretty much one of the only raiders I know who actually visit the forums... Lotsa casual from guild visit here though especially the community content area

 

It is one of the rare moments players of other playstyles show up in the forums when your group of players managed to completely destroy it with biased feedback.

Your opinion is just as biased as anyone elses, its called personal preference. Everyone has one.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Kiesu

[tmwfte]

I'm here to have a constructive debate with people about what could be done to improve the game.

 

Your own words betray you. You don't want "constructive debate". Your "shut up or get the **** out" posts preclude that.

[positronics]

Thank you Eric for the nerf rollback!

 

From what I hear, it will be a very significant rebuff

[Alssaran]

Your own words betray you. You don't want "constructive debate". Your "shut up or get the **** out" posts preclude that.

 

No.

 

I'll have a constructive debate when the other party is also ready to do the same. If the other side just wants to stomp the ground without actually taking time to consider what they are assuming/demanding/criticising, then I will call them out on it and say that it's not what I'm here for.

 

I've repeatedly made efforts to bring suggestions to fit both camps under the same hat. Finding a percentage that is correct for both the yes and no people. Offering an item that powers up companion for solo players. All were shut down and denied by some people without considering them or offering an alternative, stating: "Revert or unsub!". That's not constructive discussion, that's demanding. A childs way of demanding no less.

 

I'll not bother with that. And I will call people out when all they do is spout sarcastic and aggressive posts at Bioware without offering alternatives. That's not what a forum is for.

 

From what I hear, it will be a very significant rebuff

 

I think it is too early to say. It could be anything between 10-50% straight buffing, or even just some AI tweaking. Everything you hear right now is probably hearsay or speculation at best.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Alssaran

[geschmonz]

A few things:

 

SWTOR does not have a community of super hardcore poopsocking nolife raiders like in the old days of WoW. The end game has never been substantial enough to foster that kind of community

 

No, there are nowadays raiders. With a mix of nolifers and hard working weekend raiders. Only because the accessibility got lowered in general does not mean we dont have the attitude from the old days anymore.

 

it is still alive, dwelling in the forums and it is being used by what i would call "neo-hardcore-gamers", which means people who are very engaged gamers compared to whats average nowadays.

 

The people who wanted the companion nerfs are mostly average or maybe slightly above average players. Not the elitist hardcore raiders you keep mentioning.

 

I never talked about the raiders from WoW classic or EQ. I always had the "neo-hardcores" in mind.

 

4.0 took away most of the need for player input in single player content and planetary heroics. There's nothing inherently elitist about wanting a game that requires the player to contribute in fights rather than companions that are powerful enough to steamroll everything.

 

There, thats exactly the bias i talk about. 4.0 gave the opportunity to play endgame content to average solo players, which was being removed with patch 4.0.2. Which lead to the desaster we have now.

 

Try to get rid of your bias, take of your pink tainted goggles, and see the reality.

 

The game in its current state is still very, very accessible. I'm struggling to think of what other games you might have played in the past that set such a low bar that caused you to think 4.0.2 made the game super hard.

 

It was way more accessible in 4.0 than it is now in 4.0.2 after nerfing companions to oblivion.

 

What other games i played? Mainly rpgs. As like witcher, diablo II and III. I started playing games in 1978, my first game was Pong. My first mmorpg was WoW, which i play since claissic (inb4 "oooh yes thats the reason then.."). I have played any kind of playstyle (from hardcore raider to pvp arena player).. and at the end of my gamer career i became a casual gamer that only is interested in story and fun, and not in challenges or competition anymore.

 

From my nowadays point of view, organized raiding is the most toxic part of any mmorpg, as devs tend to cater the game completely to them only.

Edited November 21, 2015 by geschmonz