Companion Change Feedback

[Vanillasada]

I have resubbed and am very much liking how companions are now, thanks for listening to feedback and implementing the change.

[LeeLoou]

I came back to the game a few months ago after being gone almost a year. I was only playing a few months before that break because I had taken another break. Since launch I have played for a month or as long as 4 months at a time but the game just cant hold my attention because it is major boring most of the time.

 

When I came back in july I started leveling my highest character, a 49 sniper that I made at launch. Yes level 49 was as high as I got any character because I would get bored of the tedious xp grind. I don't have 6-8 hours a day every day to play so for me the leveling was slow, With the 12x xp it made leveling go quicker and the game more fun, I was getting a sense of achievement instead of "thank god, I finally got a new level" after days of grinding. I was getting into the reven quests and really starting to get into the game. I had to go out of town for a month and didn't get back until nov 1st and missed the early fallen empire but I got to run through it with the level 60 token and I liked it. I ran through it again on my sniper and was upset that I lost my companions but am willing to wait for more story to get them back.

 

Now here is where things started to change. You changed the companions so they no longer need to have armor or mods changed but they were better at healing or combat so I didn't mind that change. You also made all of them equal as far as crafting. No one companion had an affinity for armstech while another had better skills at underworld tasks. This I liked until I found out that now I needed to substantially raise my companions influence in order to be even mediocre at crafting even though I had almost every crew skill maxed on different characters.

 

Then you nerfed the healing and combat abilities of the companions. Im at the point of quitting again, not because I enjoy the new chapter stories, but because of how you screwed up the companions so bad. You keep messing with stuff, changing stuff, rearranging stuff. And when you have the hardcore player whining about how things are too easy with companions and you nerf them but you don't listen to the casual player that likes the extra help the companions were giving. Those people that found it too easy with companions could always dismiss them but the people that liked the extra help now don't have it anymore. Again no compromise, just a big swing and a miss.

 

A game 5 years old shouldn't still be going through so many drastic changes and still trying to figure out how to please the players. I thought I was going to hang around for a while this time but again you have disappointed me to the point where I am ready to take yet another break from the game in hopes that by the time I come back you will have finally figured things out and made the game fun at last.

[LordArtemis]

Depends on your definition of vast ... 60ish % wasn't it from the poll we had agreed they were fine? I think others actual counted up individuals and the views they posted and that number dropped more? *shrug* I wouldn't even want to piss off 20% of my customer base.

We don't really know the metrics - they won't share them. I would be interested to know of the portion who were against the OP companions how does their average subscriber time stack up against those who like the OP companions i.e. 2 years vs 2 months ... that would sway things heaps in my decision making processes personally.

 

Yea, just to be clear, im only speculating. I could very well be wrong, and perhaps the vast majority of folks were for 4.0.2. I wouldn't bet on that, but it is possible. I would like to know the hard data as well.

 

And also, I wanted to point out that simply because I feel hardcore players are a minority in this game I do NOT feel their concerns should be ignored, quite the contrary. My only point was that, if they had to choose to screw one group or the other it would likely have to be the smallest group....and that may be what they have done here.

[RogerApple]

Yea, just to be clear, im only speculating. I could very well be wrong, and perhaps the vast majority of folks were for 4.0.2. I wouldn't bet on that, but it is possible. I would like to know the hard data as well.

 

And also, I wanted to point out that simply because I feel hardcore players are a minority in this game I do NOT feel their concerns should be ignored, quite the contrary. My only point was that, if they had to choose to screw one group or the other it would likely have to be the smallest group....and that may be what they have done here.

 

Just look at the post above you..Just because you were Pro Nerf doesn't mean like the person who quoted you. You have to lie. I'm just trying to be a hundred percent honest. Do you seriously believe the game is made of majority of hardcore people who literally just play the game all day. The majority are casuals. Every single poll ...showed that a majority were fine with companions 4.0 ..Don't feel you have to back pedal because of that poster..

[Erasimus]

Yea, just to be clear, im only speculating. I could very well be wrong, and perhaps the vast majority of folks were for 4.0.2. I wouldn't bet on that, but it is possible. I would like to know the hard data as well.

 

And also, I wanted to point out that simply because I feel hardcore players are a minority in this game I do NOT feel their concerns should be ignored, quite the contrary. My only point was that, if they had to choose to screw one group or the other it would likely have to be the smallest group....and that may be what they have done here.

 

I believe that part of the problem is that we don't really have a consensus on what constitutes a "hard core" player. For many of the anit-nerf crowd the criteria seemed to be anyone that liked the nerf, but that is not really a good metric.

 

For example, I considered myself a very casual SWTOR player based on the hours I play and my understanding of the class mechanics after a year off, heck, I just realized after being back for a month that my GS could use most of his abilities without being in cover

 

But I liked the nerf and level-sync as well. To the anti-nerf crowd that seems to make me hardcore, but I would definitely disagree.

 

I believe that heroic SF should be like a mini-OPs for solo players with challenging mechanics and a difficulty level that requires both learning your class and understanding the tactics needed to defeat the different bosses.

 

Solo/Story mode is, and should be easy.

[ivanhedgehog]

I believe that part of the problem is that we don't really have a consensus on what constitutes a "hard core" player. For many of the anit-nerf crowd the criteria seemed to be anyone that liked the nerf, but that is not really a good metric.

 

For example, I considered myself a very casual SWTOR player based on the hours I play and my understanding of the class mechanics after a year off, heck, I just realized after being back for a month that my GS could use most of his abilities without being in cover

 

But I liked the nerf and level-sync as well. To the anti-nerf crowd that seems to make me hardcore, but I would definitely disagree.

 

I believe that heroic SF should be like a mini-OPs for solo players with challenging mechanics and a difficulty level that requires both learning your class and understanding the tactics needed to defeat the different bosses.

 

Solo/Story mode is, and should be easy.

 

we do know 1 important thing. Swtor is a business. all about making money. the devs quickly reversed their overnerf. Chances are, they looked at subscription losses and had to deal with large losses. you can guess all you want, but you can be sure they hold subscription numbers as very important. anything else can change but money talks very loudly at EA, and by extension BW.

[Erasimus]

we do know 1 important thing. Swtor is a business. all about making money. the devs quickly reversed their overnerf. Chances are, they looked at subscription losses and had to deal with large losses. you can guess all you want, but you can be sure they hold subscription numbers as very important. anything else can change but money talks very loudly at EA, and by extension BW.

 

I agree to a point but would also say that I believe they were trying to change the game in a manner that would attract new customers and bring back old ones, like me. They made some mistakes, no doubt, in gauging the reaction of many of the current players. It remains to be seen if they can balance things to attract new players and grow the game.

 

If they follow through with balancing Heroic SF separately from the other H2s and make it challenging, not just by adding HP and damage to the NPCs but by adding interesting mechanics to the fight, then I'll probably hang around. If not I'll finish up doing KOTFE on one Imperial and one Republic character then let my sub lapse, most likely for good this time. Story alone isn't enough to keep me around.

[RubberKal]

nice, we have godmodlike companion again. My only hope rhat bioware well lern word balance sometime.

 

Well that is optimistic at best.

 

I'm a squishy class who needs a tank capable of holding the attention of more than 1 mob at a time. Just 2 silvers on me at once and I'm dead before I can get them to 3/4 of their health, and my companion hasn't even noticed yet.

 

*** BW?!?!? My first time back after the 4.02a patch and I'm still completely dissatisfied with the result.

[nimmerstil]

Sorry but I must have missed all the posts that said "my companions are too weak I can't do the story now" ... was there even one post nerf?

 

I saw a lot of posts after 4.0.2 about companions being too weak.

 

If not then you are more or less agreeing companions were fine where they were if everyone was easily getting through their story content.

I am not saying they weren't, they were fine before 4.0 and I think I took some pride in properly equipping and managing my companions and enjoy the fruits of that labor in the game.

But with 4.0.2, well, I'll just mention, again, that there's something off when my healer pc has almost twice the dps output of her dps-companion. I am glad they improved that to a more useful level.

 

 

If they aren't ballsy enough to at least stand behind their difficulty content design decisions and bow down to low/no skilled casual players they are sure as hell aren't going to start wholesale killing off companions under any circumstances.

There's too much emphasize on Alliance and Influence for it to have no consequences. I find the whole Alliance grind inconsistent with 'emphasizing story' and the effective removal of side-quests, which had a lot more story to them then the heroics grind that replaced them.

[Ghisallo]

Well that is optimistic at best.

 

I'm a squishy class who needs a tank capable of holding the attention of more than 1 mob at a time. Just 2 silvers on me at once and I'm dead before I can get them to 3/4 of their health, and my companion hasn't even noticed yet.

 

*** BW?!?!? My first time back after the 4.02a patch and I'm still completely dissatisfied with the result.

 

Sorc is squishy? At you running dps mode or heals? If running dps mode you should be able to run a healer companion and then basically face tank everything... I only ever use tank companion if I am running heal spec. Yes it takes longer but heal tank, heal self, DoT up silvers and golds, just AoE down trash... Works well and don't die in either case.

 

Depending on your spec you could be running into the problem that the devs specifically said they expect you to be running the companion in the proper role.

[Ghisallo]

I saw a lot of posts after 4.0.2 about companions being too weak.

 

 

I am not saying they weren't, they were fine before 4.0 and I think I took some pride in properly equipping and managing my companions and enjoy the fruits of that labor in the game.

But with 4.0.2, well, I'll just mention, again, that there's something off when my healer pc has almost twice the dps output of her dps-companion. I am glad they improved that to a more useful level.

 

 

There's too much emphasize on Alliance and Influence for it to have no consequences. I find the whole Alliance grind inconsistent with 'emphasizing story' and the effective removal of side-quests, which had a lot more story to them then the heroics grind that replaced them.

 

Tbh, while I understand some few people may have found doing the content with nerfed companions I think you point to the biggest source of anger. They SERIOUSLY over sold the whole "all about the story thing". Most people weren't saying the alliance faction missions were impossible when they complained, they complained they were a grind and people don't want to grind stuff that is 40 levels below them. Instead of giving new quests that provided story and depth for the " new world" we face we got the same quests with the same ending dialogue we had 2-3 years ago. People wanted that over with ASAP.

 

So in essence their concept of difficulty may well have gotten broader acceptance IF it was legitimately new content. Heck since they have the teleport mechanic to get to them they could have made them new instances that looked like the open world, given us multiple NPCS and have the specific mission and the people we meet there tell us new stuff about the State of the Galaxy under the Eternal Empire, like the old side quests. If they did that people would not feel, tbh, cheated but atm many people do feel cheated because they are doing the same things they have already done many times before.

[RogerApple]

we do know 1 important thing. Swtor is a business. all about making money. the devs quickly reversed their overnerf. Chances are, they looked at subscription losses and had to deal with large losses. you can guess all you want, but you can be sure they hold subscription numbers as very important. anything else can change but money talks very loudly at EA, and by extension BW.

 

I can't recall even a single person who said they would quit. Instead of doing that they came on forums everyday for a few weeks creating threads about how unhappy they were. I think they simply got got sick of those people complaining. Your right it is a business. Why does it make sense to you the majority of it are casuals but they would carter to a crowd that is less then half of the player base. The last poll I saw was seven hundred people to two hundred people. That's why I use the term vocal minority, because.. vocal..but still in the minority. I would frankly be blown away if the majority of people aren't casuals.

[Makillda]

I saw a lot of posts after 4.0.2 about companions being too weak.

 

Almost none of those complaints were about leveling story content. They were all people complaining that they could no longer solo the H2+ Star Fortress instances or related to the planetary heroics, either that they "were too much of a grind now" or that their lowbie toon couldn't sleepwalk through them in gear from 2 planets ago anymore.

 

Most of the complaints about the leveling story content center around the climactic story battles are far too easy and a serious letdown with level sync and these OP companions. They are not satisfying anymore as I'm finding out on the Guardian I am taking though Chapter 3 right now. Even the champion fight on Belsavis was a complete snore. There was nothing epic about it, no struggle to overcome and feel heroic about. BORING. And my comp is set to DPS...

[Mirandel]

With all honesty, can any of you say with a straight face "4.02a did not fix companions enough"?

 

My main is a Sage with mix 0f 216\208 and even 200 gear running with 2 companions affection 20 Senja (better at heal) and affection 26 Zenith (better at DPS role). I am far from a pro-gamer, do not do PvP (so, no lightning reflexes), do not raid (so, tactics is not my strong point), I do not study manuals and plan rotations for hours - I am just a casual, like many of us, a typical "average gamer".

 

Story - there is nothing to discuss here, any of my just started alts run through content practically naked (sometimes I forget to change gear for 10 or more levels and do not feel any problem).

 

H2 - the only problems I might have now is running Makeb on my main. Not well scaled formal H4 (some of them) can give a challenge. The rest - if not all a face-roll still very easy and fast. Grind is far from overwhelming. Low level alts run any H2 as easily.

 

Heroic SF - this is a challenge. But LESS then it was with the same companion in 4.0 when Senja had only 10-12 affection.

 

So, I feel completely at the same level as I was in 4.0 now. And if I can do it - you can do it. Anyone can do it! The game is more then fine now. Not sure I would be happy with more nerf but as it is - nothing to complain about.

[LordArtemis]

I read the same forum, the same complaints, and I saw them across the board. I think almost every complaint that could have been made HAS been made from both sides of the fence. I think any claims otherwise are inaccurate at best, self serving at worst. The proof in in this very forum.

 

Companions were not a problem in 4.0, 4.0.2 or 4.0.2a IMO. Level sync and the new companion system is and likely continues to be the problem. It removed options for ALL players, forcing players to play on one level throughout the game.

 

Casual players lost the ability to outlevel content, one could argue a pain point.

Hardcore players lost the ability to customize their difficulty level, a pain point to be sure.

 

Not one of the patches solved this issue. They are only bandaids, each screwing over one section of the playerbase while favoring another. The likely patch that could be considered most fair to all was probably 4.0.2a, but it still leaves some players in the weeds.

 

They have a HUGE amount of work to do if they are to provide a consistent and fun experience for all that comes close to the experience prior to 4.0 IMO.

 

But the community will likely continue to focus on "us vs them" arguments instead of trying to find a way to move forward and suggest options that could benefit all.

Edited November 28, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Ghisallo]

Companions were not a problem in 4.0, 4.0.2 or 4.0.2a IMO. Level sync and the new companion system is and likely continues to be the problem. It removed options for ALL players, forcing players to play on one level throughout the game.

 

Casual players lost the ability to outlevel content, one could argue a pain point.

Hardcore players lost the ability to customize their difficulty level, a pain point to be sure.

 

Not one of the patches solved this issue. They are only bandaids, each screwing over one section of the playerbase while favoring another. The likely patch that could be considered most fair to all was probably 4.0.2a, but it still leaves some players in the weeds.

 

They have a HUGE amount of work to do if they are to provide a consistent and fun experience for all that comes close to the experience prior to 4.0 IMO.

 

But the community will likely continue to focus on "us vs them" arguments instead of trying to find a way to move forward and suggest options that could benefit all.

 

Exactly.

[Erasimus]

I read the same forum, the same complaints, and I saw them across the board. I think almost every complaint that could have been made HAS been made from both sides of the fence. I think any claims otherwise are inaccurate at best, self serving at worst. The proof in in this very forum.

 

Companions were not a problem in 4.0, 4.0.2 or 4.0.2a IMO. Level sync and the new companion system is and likely continues to be the problem. It removed options for ALL players, forcing players to play on one level throughout the game.

 

Casual players lost the ability to outlevel content, one could argue a pain point.

Hardcore players lost the ability to customize their difficulty level, a pain point to be sure.

 

Not one of the patches solved this issue. They are only bandaids, each screwing over one section of the playerbase while favoring another. The likely patch that could be considered most fair to all was probably 4.0.2a, but it still leaves some players in the weeds.

 

They have a HUGE amount of work to do if they are to provide a consistent and fun experience for all that comes close to the experience prior to 4.0 IMO.

 

But the community will likely continue to focus on "us vs them" arguments instead of trying to find a way to move forward and suggest options that could benefit all.

 

I'll have to disagree with "They have a HUGE amount of work to do if they are to provide a consistent and fun experience for all that comes close to the experience prior to 4.0 IMO.". IMO, if the old system was working, making enough profit with growth potential, I doubt they would have attempted the changes that they did. I know that the pre-4.0 experience offered nothing that would have brought me back.

 

Now I don't doubt that the players that were already here would, for the most part, agree about the pre-4.0 experience. Although there is a vocal group that believes that the 4.0 experience was superior to what came before and after.

 

I do agree that they have their work cut out for them to find a balance that will retain most of the old player base and still attract new players and grow the game.

[Yezzan]

here's the deal: PUT THEM BACK TO WHERE THEY WERE AT LAUNCH. I hope that's pretty clear. i know that I'm late to the debate but WHT...

 

You have created a single player play style for SWTOR:KOTFE. There are no limits to the number of mobs that can attack a player at once; some games have an aggro limit, regardless of number of mobs in the area, only a certain (maximum) amount can attack you at the same time (for example, you can only aggro max 5 mobs at a time, the rest will ignore you until one of the aggro-ed dies).

 

Anyways, Heroics have always been easy, at max level, but you scaled players' level to the planets they are on,so the companions kinda made us feel like we are actually level 65s running lowbie content for comms , credits and gear (which it should be).

 

Star fortresses, are not easy, you have to pay attention even with the COMPs, especially when you get to the rooms where you have to interrupt the boss's channel. They are very long, so increasing the difficulty level will make them boring and pointless to solo. Each star fortress is the same experience and the rewards are crappy, and the credit is low. I would not repeat star fortresses for any reason at all, once i have demolished all of them in solo and hard mode, that's it. Morever, its difficulty to get a team to run the same heroic star fortress that you are currently on, which means that if you cant solo it, you will just have to forget the whole thing. Right now no one is even doing HM FPs because they suck, and its better to run a SM OPS cause you get better gear.

 

Even now you are WAY better off doing PvP and getting a ranked set fully augmented to do ALL your PVE content. this is not cool. I love the PVP gear, but I think it shouldn't be better in PVE than the comm comms gear.

 

Anyways back to companions.... players should be able to choose their difficulty play style. You don't want to drink tea while your comp recks mobs? Go to the gree vendor on fleet and reduce your comp's power so that you can be more engaging in combat. Just like you did with the x12 exp. Whomever loved the hardcore grind could just turn off the exp, and problem solved.

 

I don't have a problem with someone not being able to solo a heroic 2 at level 10, but I sure as hell do not want to have to call in help, on a level 10 planet, for a damn heroic.

[GhostRaven]

Just to highlight your own companies statement

 

Companion characters have always been a big part of our personal stories, and with the upcoming release of the new Digital Expansion, Knights of the Fallen Empire, comes an even deeper focus on characters and storytelling.

 

These arent the companions your talking about.... move along ....

[Ghisallo]

I'll have to disagree with "They have a HUGE amount of work to do if they are to provide a consistent and fun experience for all that comes close to the experience prior to 4.0 IMO.". IMO, if the old system was working, making enough profit with growth potential, I doubt they would have attempted the changes that they did. I know that the pre-4.0 experience offered nothing that would have brought me back.

 

Now I don't doubt that the players that were already here would, for the most part, agree about the pre-4.0 experience. Although there is a vocal group that believes that the 4.0 experience was superior to what came before and after.

 

I do agree that they have their work cut out for them to find a balance that will retain most of the old player base and still attract new players and grow the game.

 

Then you did not read the 2015 Q3 earnings call. There the CFO said they attracted many new players with SoR and thus contributed to GROWTH in the secors that this game fills in the company's portfolio....

 

BUT, due to the new movie they expected even more this time around. That is the issue here, that new movie. Without it what they did last year was fine BUT EA, and their current CEO and CFO are ALL ABOUT maximizing profits. They are typical "megacorp" officers and if you have your IP is tied to perhaps the most anticipated movie in the century thus far, it is a very different ball game when dealing with people like this.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Erasimus]

Then you did not read the 2015 Q3 earnings call. There the CFO said they attracted many new players with SoR and thus contributed to GROWTH in the secors that this game fills in the company's portfolio....

 

BUT, due to the new movie they expected even more this time around. That is the issue here, that new movie. Without it what they did last year was fine BUT EA, and their current CEO and CFO are ALL ABOUT maximizing profits. They are typical "megacorp" officers and if you have your IP is tied to perhaps the most anticipated movie in the century thus far, it is a very different ball game when dealing with people like this.

 

Actually I did, but it is always more of "what have you done for me lately". If they felt the game was doing fine and expanding as they had hoped, I seriously doubt they would have made the huge changes they did with KOTFE. With the movie coming out, I'm sure they hope they can capitalize on that and attract a wider audience.

 

P.S. It would be interesting to know if Battlefront helped or hurt SWTOR.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Erasimus

[Transcendent]

I may be mistaken, but it appears to me like the GSI has all three roles rolled into one. It can heal you, heal itself, shield you, fight melee up close, ranged, and also tank.

 

That's also a good point to bring up, anyone had their companion set in a Tank role actually guard you to lower your threat? Perhaps it was overlooked when BioWare made the changes?

Edited November 28, 2015 by Transcendent

[Ramalina]

I tried another SF H2 solo, all buffs and equipment caches, 214 avg gear lvl, companion influence lvl 33. Sage in healing spec.

 

This time ran the companion in DPS and Tank stances. DPS stance made grinding weak trash mob groups a bit faster, but was quite squishy on Paladins, Ok I guess, though they don't DPS much faster than a sage that's also healing while DPSing. Still better damage than a companion in tank or heal stance.

 

Companion in tank stance is ok for Paladins but seemed a bit weak on the second platform and I wound up doing the third platform and the Exarch with Lana in healing stance. I might have been able to get through with her in tank stance, but it didn't seem worth the aggravation.

 

Overall companion assessment:

Healing stance- very strong could survive a mild nerf but isn't in dire need of one.

Tanking stance - strong enough for mildly challenging encounter but lacking against spikes in damage whether from big hits or many small ones (and very stupid about cool down usage and standing in avoidable effects, requires a lot of micromanaging for best effect).

Damage stance - more damage than the other two stances, but not enough to make a grind feel like much less of a grind. Could use a mild buff.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Ramalina

[Talchia]

I need tanks for my stealther toons but they are really bad compared to pre 4.0, first they need to think a few seconds what they should do, so they start their tanking when I already killed the first mob. I could start with the tank to attack first but then I lose the opener as stealther. The stupid hooks are also annyoing compared to the old aoe taunt because the mobs could get suddenly out of your range. Tanks companion died pretty quick pre 4.0 but they were aggro monsters, I want them back. Aggro>survivability, even the healer stance has better aggro than the tank.

[ivanhedgehog]

I can't recall even a single person who said they would quit. Instead of doing that they came on forums everyday for a few weeks creating threads about how unhappy they were. I think they simply got got sick of those people complaining. Your right it is a business. Why does it make sense to you the majority of it are casuals but they would carter to a crowd that is less then half of the player base. The last poll I saw was seven hundred people to two hundred people. That's why I use the term vocal minority, because.. vocal..but still in the minority. I would frankly be blown away if the majority of people aren't casuals.

 

they didnt have to read the forums, although there were whole threads about people cancelling their accounts. the devs were looking at actual subscriber numbers. the kind of data only they can see. no hyperbole, no grandstanding. just a spreadsheet telling them how many subs lost and gained. also, they can see how many accounts were logged on and what they were doing. that kind of data doesnt lie. they made their decision based on that kind of data. I personally think they made a good decision, but you can decide for yourself.