Star Fortress Heroic no longer soloable...

[MillionsKNives]

I finally got done watching your die and repeat video....

This is not, by sane persons definition, what players find fun. Perhapse the hardcore will do this for raids or whatnot but.....wow.....

Waiting till the stars align and crits to happen to allow you to advance...this was your proof of soloing it??

 

If I'm recalling correctly, I only died twice for the regular portions of the flashpoint. Once during my first encounter with a gold where I wasn't prepared to deal with the damage, nor did I give myself enough space to kite well without running into another group. The second time was when I leapt across one of the chasms near the end prematurely, not realizing that it would put me in combat. Second attempt there I sucked less and got the last core thingy down.

 

The only deaths other than that (that I can recall) was the second paladin. And yes, I think that fight is out of balance and could use tweaking to lower the damage output. With some extra change in strat, such as respeccing to IO, and putting my companion as tank, I might have been able to pull it off. But I didn't want to waste any more time in the video on it.

 

So outside of one (optional) fight which I had legitimate trouble with on a few attempts, there was no die and repeat, waiting for the stars to align in that video. Unless there was some section I'm not recalling?

[Alssaran]

Why is that one heroic so significant? Does it drop some great gear or mount?

 

They will tell you it is about principle. Eric said that Heroic 2 quests should be soloed. However, this is a Heroic 2+ quest. It is clearly labeled as "can be too difficult for two alone, depending on gear and skill". Then they will state the ridiculous and say that he/she and his/her spouse cannot "solo" the FP, even though they don't solo it while playing duo in the first place.

 

It's all about god mode going away. People were given the lolipop of "easy AFK coffee mode" when 4.0 hit. Bioware saw that it wasn't at all what they intended and took it away. The baby is crying now, hoping it gets the diabetes on a stick back...

[Baraxis]

Being old gives one some perspective on issues like this. Back in the 8-bit, 16-bit console days, the idea that you could complete a game without losing multiple times would seem to be ridiculous. Games used to be wickedly hard compared to now. I need to add the obligatory: We used to have to march uphill both ways in the freezing cold and snow to finish a game. (j/k)

 

So can I ask? And please understand this is a question not an insult.

 

Should there be no risk of loss in the game? Do you believe the game would be more fun that way?

 

I turn 44 next month so I am no spring chicken.

The player knew every mechanic before he ever stepped into the instance...it was as experienced and prepared as one could be...it was old hat....

One or two deaths would be an off day for me if I was that experienced at something. In a few fights he actually just got lucky. He even gave up at one point and pulled out the "good stuff" for "brevity's sake...and sanity."

Tell me how that is what todays MMO market is tuned for.

[TUXs]

Is that the standard?

 

By that I mean, what level of accomplishment should we expect from an average gamer? And the corollary, is it OK for the below-average gamer to fail to meet that level and for the better than average player to exceed it.

Absolutely it is. If you're selling a product like this, you need to appeal to the largest potential market.

[Themanthatisi]

Absolutely it is. If you're selling a product like this, you need to appeal to the largest potential market.

 

Tux, I like you, but I have to disagree with you on this...

 

You were one of the people telling BW Bravo for gating companions behind PvP. If I am not mistaken, PvP is not the "largest potential audience". Yet, you defend that, but not the companion nerf.

 

Honestly, I am ok with the PvP gate myself, just not as a gate to an entire chain of mission, but for the companion for that specific mission only.

 

Sorry, I had to point that out....

 

It is perfectly fine to me to have some things require PvP and some things, like a FP or Heroic 2+ (PLUS) requiring 2 or more players to complete. Solo at your own risk....

Edited November 18, 2015 by Themanthatisi

[Ghostius]

They will tell you it is about principle. Eric said that Heroic 2 quests should be soloed. However, this is a Heroic 2+ quest. It is clearly labeled as "can be too difficult for two alone, depending on gear and skill". Then they will state the ridiculous and say that he/she and his/her spouse cannot "solo" the FP, even though they don't solo it while playing duo in the first place.

 

It's all about god mode going away. People were given the lolipop of "easy AFK coffee mode" when 4.0 hit. Bioware saw that it wasn't at all what they intended and took it away. The baby is crying now, hoping it gets the diabetes on a stick back...

 

Ok, but is there anything else beside pure principle reason?

[Simbr]

Just did it on my Vig Guardian with 208/216/220 gear and level 30 companion.

 

A nerf was needed, OW PvP for example was a joke, but I agree the nerf was too much (as always!).

 

Hopefully it will be adjusted with a future update.

 

But don't spread BS, this has been solo'd many other players, check swtor reddit for the videos.

[krakadyla]

Are you kidding? I just soloed a heroic star fortress. In the old 192 companion gear from the Yavin weekly, without alliance buffs or crates, no stim for the most part, cause it ran out and I was too lazy to go back to my stronghold and get a new one.

 

So, just because you can't do it, or because you can't pull the whole instance and go afk while god companion does all the work, doesn't mean it's impossible.

 

Translation for us filthy casuals:

 

"And I did it barefoot! In the snow! Uphill both ways!! Look at me, how good I am at video games!!! LOOOOK AT MEEE!!!! Tell me I am awesome! I am awesome, right? I mean, I am so good at video games!"

[TUXs]

Tux, I like you, but I have to disagree with you on this...

 

You were one of the people telling BW Bravo for gating companions behind PvP. If I am not mistaken, PvP is not the "largest potential audience". Yet, you defend that, but not the companion nerf.

 

Honestly, I am ok with the PvP gate myself, just not as a gate to an entire chain of mission, but for the companion for that specific mission only.

 

Sorry, I had to point that out....

 

It's ok I can explain it...

 

Gating a companion behind PvP, encourages players to try PvP...which I'm all for, but...if you followed me on that topic much, you'd know that I absolutely disagree with the 20 match thing...that's brutal, even for me. 4-8 would have been fine...20 creates hard feelings.

 

The companion nerf impacts every solo/semi-solo player that returned to this game to play in the Star Wars universe. People were having FUN finally....they had a great thing going. Not everyone plays to be competitive...many play to relax...those players are getting screwed here.

[Alssaran]

Ok, but is there anything else beside pure principle reason?

 

From an actual gameplay standpoint? Nope.

 

You can still solo everything, given you know what CC means. Proof for that has been provided quite a few times. It's just the principle, really.

[Themanthatisi]

It's ok I can explain it...

 

Gating a companion behind PvP, encourages players to try PvP...which I'm all for, but...if you followed me on that topic much, you'd know that I absolutely disagree with the 20 match thing...that's brutal, even for me. 4-8 would have been fine...20 creates hard feelings.

 

The companion nerf impacts every solo/semi-solo player that returned to this game to play in the Star Wars universe. People were having FUN finally....they had a great thing going. Not everyone plays to be competitive...many play to relax...those players are getting screwed here.

 

I do agree with your PvP assessment. However, do you also not agree that some people should try grouping as well? This is an MMO.

 

I read by one poster, that you are NOT able to do the Story version of Star Fortress and get the Alliance built. I am not sure, since I only do the Heroic.

But if that person is correct, a fair compromise would be to allow Alliance completion in the Story (solo) version of that mission. Some content should be more challenging, but also not punish casuals with the inability to gain that alliance by always having to group. However, allowing OP companions the game was too easy, IMO.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Themanthatisi

[AshlaBoga]

Translation for us filthy casuals:

 

"And I did it barefoot! In the snow! Uphill both ways!! Look at me, how good I am at video games!!! LOOOOK AT MEEE!!!! Tell me I am awesome! I am awesome, right? I mean, I am so good at video games!"

 

 

Krak, you're missing the point entirely.

 

The threat title is "Star Fortress Heroic no longer soloable"

Which is untrue.

 

The companion nerf in my opinion WAS too much, but not because of Star Fortress's.

 

I think they overdid the nerf, but my concern is that if people keep focusing entirely on Star Fortress's then all BW will do will be to nerf the Exarchs.

 

That's why we have to stop the half-truths and focus on the facts. And the fact is that my LEVEL 60 192 Yavin 4 Legacy geared companion was more powerful than my LEVEL 65 Rank 50 companion.

 

And getting them to Rank 50? Was a heck of a lot more costly than just running one mission on Rishi and a weekly on Yavin.

[Kalfear]

Being old gives one some perspective on issues like this. Back in the 8-bit, 16-bit console days, the idea that you could complete a game without losing multiple times would seem to be ridiculous. Games used to be wickedly hard compared to now. I need to add the obligatory: We used to have to march uphill both ways in the freezing cold and snow to finish a game. (j/k)

 

So can I ask? And please understand this is a question not an insult.

 

Should there be no risk of loss in the game? Do you believe the game would be more fun that way?

 

I agree,

 

Im pushing 50 and been around since the computer gameing industry started (still love those old C64 games, actually just rebought some on GOG.com )

 

And its true, in the old days, games didnt have the graphics and sounds and all that so developers really relied on substance and challenge.

 

I would pay real money to watch any person who claims SW:TOR is a grind or challenging currently try to play the original Might and Magic. (just replayed it as well, what a great blast from past but dang you do not see difficulty like that in games anymore, period)

 

Or Original EQ if we speaking MMORPGs

 

As graphics and music and sounds got better, quality and substance diminished.

I think thats why when a game thats deep, well designed, and carries all of the older qualities combined with all the new qualities become such massive hits instantly.

 

Games like Mass Effect,1,2,3

The Witcher 2 and 3

Civ series

and more

 

Players see the best of all ages togather and it draws everyone in

 

SW:TOR is a new era game.

Very low on challenge and accomplishment

relying very much on the bells and whistles to distract players from traditional game play standards

 

Not only SWTOR though, the whole genre started down the dumb and dumber road with WOW.

 

WOW was called a MMORPG on Training Wheels when it launched because of how simplistic and easy mode it was (and is)

Other companies saw WOW success and decided less challenge and more color splashes and loud noises the way to go.

The art of distraction rather then designing a really deep and compelling game.

 

Rift suffered same problem at their release but to Trions credit they now realize this flaw and are slowly coming back around to content > Bells and Whistles and their recent content been much more challenging then their original release content.

 

And for that they have salvaged a failing game and made it self sufficient again.

 

SWTOR has great story but its always suffered at makeing the content to easy. To fast to chew up and move on from.

 

And sadly, clearly the new age players can not adapt when that is altered in the slightest

 

As I say below, The problem is not with the game content difficulty (in terms of H2 SF content)

The problem is now and always has been with players who think god mode should be the standard mode for any game. Rather then adapt and learn to use certain skills and abilities to their own advantage they scream bloody murder that they not elitists or hardcore players.

 

Never fully grasping that SW:TOR (as it is today) is the EASIEST MMORPG on the market currently.

If you find the solo content of SW:TOR to challenging, you will literally be unable to advance in other MMORPGs (should you attempt them, which kinda explains why so many screamed bloody murder about WildStar challenges).

 

And they would have massive feet stomping fits if they tried any RPG or MMORPG from 1991-1999 era

 

Solo'd it on my Tactics Vanguard, in 188-200 gear (with a couple pieces of 208), no augments, with a rank 11 Lana last night. I died 6 times and had to make several uses of my heroic moment and unity, often having to wait for it to come off cooldown before proceeding. The Ephmeris battle killed me 3 times, I died twice more in the reactors with the Exarch, and got pushed off a ledge once. Once I had enough photocell capacitors in my inventory, I ignored the mobs, siphoned the Exarch, hit my Hold the Line and clicked on the console. After the reactors, the battle with the Exarch was a joke... never got below 50% health.

 

As a player who PVP'd almost exlusively for several years, did very little high end PVE content, and now only casually plays solo PVE content, I was able to solo the Star Fortress heroic in crap gear with a low influence companion. It was incredibly difficult and took a long time, but was doable.

 

shhhhh reality and honesty not allowed here!

 

Dont you know this is a burn at the stake thread

 

hehe.

 

Its funny cause I guarentee you used a skill that all the people whining have never used

Unity

Very handy skill every class has but I guara dang tee you those complaining have never once used it (yes yes now the floods of "I use it all the time" will start in, despite never being mentioned EVER in any posts)

 

H2 SF should be hard but as one thats run it many many many times. The proper utilization of interupts, stuns, knowckbacks, heroic moment, unity, adrenals, med pack, and defensive abilities/relics/self heals make the encounter very much easier over all.

 

But thing is the people whining here dont want to use those skills and abilities

They just want their companion to heal through it all while they mash attack buttons

 

The problem is not with the content

The problem is with the players

This issue just the next extention of all the makeb whining about being to tough and on and on and on

 

Glad you were able to figure it out (thats not sarcasm, its really good to see someone willing to figure these fights out when facing some adversity rather then coming here to scream bloody murder, like is happening now.)

It only gets easier when you pay attention to the fights and figure out the tactics and mechanics of it .

[Jeronas]

 

The companion nerf impacts every solo/semi-solo player that returned to this game to play in the Star Wars universe. People were having FUN finally....they had a great thing going. Not everyone plays to be competitive...many play to relax...those players are getting screwed here.

 

EXACTLY! People left in droves over the years, because the leveling experience was a total chore before 4.0 ! (me included... got completely fed up spending more time meditating my health back up after each fight, than actually playing the game.... not to mention the totally useless companions that did jack s hit! )

 

So 4.0 came along with lots of hype! Lot of people returned (me included) and had a complete blast leveling a new character again!

 

Sure companions were a bit OP here and there and a little tune down ( say 10% or so as a start ) would have sufficed!

Not a blunt 75-80% SLEDGEHAMMER nerf! Making companions even more useless than they were before 4.0!

 

Bioware isn't even aware that players are exploiting the main hand weapon bug, which is what ACTUALLY made your companion god mode!

 

So instead of fixing THAT first! before nerfing the s hit out of the companions! would have been a better start!

 

But this is typical Bioware! Listening to the vocal minority, decked out in full RAID gear with millions of credits to spend on insta boosting their companions to rank 50! And so screwing over the rest of the playerbase who isn't interesting in maxing out their characters and just want to have fun playing the stories and regular content!

Edited November 18, 2015 by Jeronas

[TUXs]

I do agree with your PvP assessment. However, do you also not agree that some people should try grouping as well? This is an MMO.

 

I read by one poster, that you are NOT able to do the Story version of Star Fortress and get the Alliance built. I am not sure, since I only do the Heroic.

But if that person is correct, a fair compromise would be to allow Alliance completion in the Story (solo) version of that mission. Some content should be more challenging, but also not punish casuals with the inability to gain that alliance by always having to group. However, allowing OP companions the game was too easy, IMO.

Absolutely! FPS and Ops encourage grouping, as do World Bosses and any number of things these days. I'm seldom online without being in a group.

 

I main a Commando, so 10 healers isn't enough for me to ever feel "OP" ...but I will concede that healing was quite strong prior to the nerf...it's just that the nerf wasn't reasonable, it was MASSIVE! 20% less healing would have been acceptable, 75% less is crazy.

[Sweetiepies]

It's just that the nerf wasn't reasonable, it was MASSIVE! 20% less healing would have been acceptable, 75% less is crazy.

 

Pretty much the bottom line. A nerf was needed, but not a neutering.

[Voths]

I just finished the Heroic Voss version on my Assassin with an alternate set of gear and healing companion rank 30. Figured this was the hardest one to do so I gave it a shot. I didn't stealth around through the trash and did kill just about everything. I fought two paladins and did one mini event with the walker.

 

The trash clears were fine. No problem there.

 

On one of the paladins, I had to use my 30% damage reduction from AoE taunt and heroic moment to survive. I just noticed its recast is now five minutes and the abilities are one minute. Neat! No issues on the other two.

 

On the ring leading up to the boss fight, the first ambush was easy. I did hit my AoE deagro defensive buff when the swarm targeted me but no big deal. On the next station, I fought the two gold and clicked the console. For the third part I ran into some trouble as I found my companion stopped healing me when there was nothing up (everything was dead, waiting on respawns) so I had to dance a little bit. For the last station, I wised up a bit and manually healed myself via companion abilities during the downtime.

 

The final fight with the boss was straightforward. Got about 15M away and planted the turret then beat on him. At some point I used the healing ability from Oggurobb and I hit the force damage relic when he started healing. Went down fairly easy. I'm sure I could have used heroic moment to make things simpler either here, below, or in both spots.

 

Overall, it was doable with some effort. I imagine it will be difficult to impossible for some and I certainly won't go back to do any more for fun or for the weeklies, which is a shame. Time is better spent doing planetary heroics or operations.

 

But on the subject of companions, yes, I do believe they went overboard with the nerf bat here. It was fun seeing 5-6k DPS on over world trash at level 65 and 20k heals, but this after effect isn't even half of that.

[Kurin]

To the OP, I just finished soloing the Star Fortress Heroic. Truth be told, prior to today I had never tried to do this, because I find solo PVE content boring. Since you made it sound difficult, I decided to try it. Yep...still boring.

 

My Lana was only rank 15. My alliance guys were all rank 2 or 3, so I didn't get any of their buffs. My sage's gear was a bit better than your Commando's gear, so I figure this probably balances out the difference in Alliance/companion. And while it took longer than I wanted (45+ minutes), there were very few times I had any fear of dieing.

 

I do think I would have had a more difficult go of it on a Sniper or Gunslinger. On a tank toon it would have taken a long time, but I think the healing output of Lana (more than adequate) would have meant it was just a long, slow slog.

[Themanthatisi]

Absolutely! FPS and Ops encourage grouping, as do World Bosses and any number of things these days. I'm seldom online without being in a group.

 

I main a Commando, so 10 healers isn't enough for me to ever feel "OP" ...but I will concede that healing was quite strong prior to the nerf...it's just that the nerf wasn't reasonable, it was MASSIVE! 20% less healing would have been acceptable, 75% less is crazy.

 

Wife and I did 3 of the Heroic SF missions last night and felt little impact from the nerf, we still cleaned it out without a death in mostly 190 and 208 gear. I can understand why a solo player would feel it more, like you, I am grouped a lot.

 

However, BW does see that as an Heroic 2+ , and typically those are 2 players or more. Unlike the Heroic 2 planet heroics without the + (plus).

 

Personally, I think the nerf was needed, I will let BW figure out where they want to make the balance, as they stated they will based on feedback. Fact is though, the Heroic 2's, are still easily done solo and that was intentional. They never clearly stated it was in the design of Heroic SF to be solowed unless in good gear and played well.

 

I do think, some content should be harder and require two... My concern for the casuals, is if the heroic version is actually needed or not. Can they complete the Alliance doing the Story version? If not, that is the issue, not the fact they can't easily solo the Heroic version. If the Heroic version is necessary to get the Alliance, BW needs to address that to be fair. In that case, all should be happy....

 

Harder stuff for grouping, easy stuff for solo with the same end result for Alliance completion.

[Diviciacus]

The companions WERE overpowered in most of the game.

 

Regular quests were a joke to complete. Most Heroics were as well, and while they're a bit more challenging now, they're easily still soloable as intended.

 

The Star Fortress was challenging before to solo, but doable. Now it's an absolute impossibility for virtually anyone, and that's being generous.

 

Tried on my 65 Shadow, with 208 gear, Lana at level 21. Everything is challenging but ok up to the first Knight of Zakuul, who proceeds to stomp us into the deck plates regardless of what mode I put Lana in. Maybe a tank might fare better, MAYBE. But anyone else? It's grouping or no chance, and even then I'm not confident that the champion level critters can be beat.

 

This definitely needs adjustment on some level.

 

Both my Juggernaut and my Sentinel are in 220 optimized raid gear with rank 50 companions. Can't solo it no matter which stand my companions use.

 

Healer? Don't put out enough numbers to keep me alive.

DPS? They and I don't put out enough numbers to kill things before they, then I, die. And I'm doing 6500+ DPS on both characters.

Tank? They just *********** die. Seriously. Two hits and a rank 50 companion bites it.

 

If they were going to so comprehensively and massively nerf companions... maybe they should have fixed the bug where companions have no defensive stats because they have no equipped armor first.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Diviciacus

[canuckly]

Both my Juggernaut and my Sentinel are in 220 optimized raid gear with rank 50 companions. Can't solo it no matter which stand my companions use.

 

Healer? Don't put out enough numbers to keep me alive.

DPS? They and I don't put out enough numbers to kill things before they, then I, die. And I'm doing 6500+ DPS on both characters.

Tank? They just *********** die. Seriously. Two hits and a rank 50 companion bites it.

 

If they were going to so comprehensively and massively nerf companions... maybe they should have fixed the bug where companions have no defensive stats because they have no equipped armor first.

i can tell you that you have no idea how to play there's no other way to put it sorry if i sound like a jerk but seriously

 

i have a guardian vigilance stance and a t7-01 companion healer influence 20 my gear is currently 4 piece 220 and i have 1 comms gear enhancement and 3 comms gear mods and 2 comms gear implants i have a 220 mainhand and 220 offhand

 

i use heroic moment for the paladins and final boss but not the 1st boss i never have issues other than knockback deaths

 

if i die it's usually my own fault like not jumping to the 4 person mob in the 3 terminal area where you have to take the exarch shield away

 

i have cleared about 5 heroic mode star fortresses on this toon since the nerf and died probably 2-3 times so again you're clearly doing something wrong when i can do this with a weaker companion

 

fyi i can also do this on a sage with the old 6 piece bonus 192 a 208 mainhand a 220 offhand and i am not optimized

[Alssaran]

Both my Juggernaut and my Sentinel are in 220 optimized raid gear with rank 50 companions. Can't solo it no matter which stand my companions use.

 

i can tell you that you have no idea how to play there's no other way to put it sorry if i sound like a jerk but seriously

 

Seconded. Sorry, there's no other way to put it. I did it with the same class you did (Juggernaut) in less than optimized gear. I only had one 216 piece (chestpiece), the rest was still 208 with a few augmentations in defense. My healer companion was Lana at ~30. I got the One for All achievement earlier today. I posted a screenshot of that a few pages ago.

 

Again, sorry to break it to you. If you can't make it on a 220 raid gear optimized Juggernaut with 50 companions, no way that's Biowares fault when others have done it with the same class but less equipment and influence.

 

Sorry to break it to you. This isn't Biowares fault. You're just not good with a Juggernaut.

[Ghenghis-Khan]

I think the companions are way op. I haven't died since 3.5 and when 4.0 launched I felt like I was the emperor and my companion was the emperors wrath.

[TX_Angel]

We don't need the solo bot back. Companions are still strong enough to complete the SF Heroic mission, even with 208 gear. I just finished the One and Only achievement. Juggernaut. Tank spec. Gear is 208 with some augments. Companion is Lana healer with influence at ~30.

 

Don't believe me because it is impossible?

 

http://i.imgur.com/RZLqK4D.jpg

 

Look at the timestamp. It is not impossible. It isn't even "hard", coming from a casual. You just need to use all your CC/ability block.

 

I imagine it would be much easier as a Jugg, but not all classes are made equal. How about a Mara?

 

It is also worth noting that what is "easy" for YOU is not always "easy" for ME, or anyone else.

 

And then finally there is the "fun" aspect... I found the heroic Star Fortresses just about perfect before the nerf, with a high ranked companion. You could still die if you were stupid, but they weren't a slogfest.

 

Now they are just a slogfest. Doable? Clearly, some people report doing them, but that doesn't mean they are fun.

 

So I won't do them again.

 

Nerfing comps to try and get me to group won't work, I'll just not do the content. Do it enough and I'll have nothing left to do. This is not a good business plan.

[Pagy]

exactly

 

why try to get better at a video game, instead just whine about how it's not easymode zero challenge