Why did you nerfed companions

[Varnhagen]

Because you know, some people play games for fun, not challenge.

 

And some people play games for the challenge, because it is fun to them. In a openworld mmo there is no way to offer different difficulties, apart from having easier and more difficult areas. But when people demand that it is their right that more difficult OPTIONAL content (that's what Heroics used to be) be nerfed for solo consumption you are directly infringing on other people's concept of fun.

There has to be a compromise between casual joyriding and challenge.

Apart from that, I think that making heroics necessary in the Alliance progression was a bad design decision, because it mixes the casual-solo and difficult-solo/group-players paradigms and is thus contradictory/inconsistent.

What I personally dont get is, that the player base is so vocal to heap accusations and insults upon their fellow gamers for a series of botched design choices made by Bioware.

[Cheops]

Thanks for the feedback, challenging heroic content is not challenging again.

 

If people don't enjoy challenging content there is plenty of non challenging content in this game.

 

I think people are more pissed off at having to work hard for the rewards now more than anything but no one is going to admit to that.

 

I didnt say it was challenging.. I said it was annoying.. Soloing Star Fortress was challenging pre 4.0.2.. Now? i wont even try it.. due to simply how long it would take IF i could do it.. it took along time to solo before this patch.. after.. i could very easily see having to use heroic moment every single fight, making soloing it take 2+hours and half of that would be waiting for cooldowns

 

Having a (high ranked) DPS companion doing less damage then a healer speced scoundrel that is spamming grenade and the default attack is just plan stupid

 

Nothing about fighting seems heroic now... it feels slow and drawn out

 

Would i cancel my sub if it wasnt already pre-paid until February? Maybe not today.. i'm not that hasty.. if its still like this com February.. I dont see me renewing my sub.. what will i do between now and then? probably not to much swtor.. I have a few other games i've been trying to play though but swtor was taking all my free time because i was actually enjoying playing.. i've played more between early access to KoTFE to yesterday then i had in the 8 months before that combined.. now? i dont even have a desire to login because i dont want to trudge though the content what took me 30 minutes to do yesterday now takes over an hour

Edited November 18, 2015 by Cheops

[YankeeDelta]

You see you try say I want you to play my way when really you actually admit you want me playing your way, you want to remove the group content and make it solo content basically by removing the amount of people having to group to do it.

 

I stated, clearly and unambiguously, that I would like the ability to play all of the content the game offers, solo, because that is how I enjoy playing the game. I also asked why you feel entitled to an opinion about how I want to play the game.

 

You in turn misrepresented my position as wanting to force all players to solo the game, even if a player wants to group. That is not my position. That has never been my position.

 

Players who want to group for any portion of the game's content, including so called "solo" content, have ALWAYS had the ability to do so. I am simply asking that players who enjoy soloing have the same level of game support.

 

If a player is caustic, selfish, childish, or otherwise unfriendly to be around, then yes, these changes will make it more difficult for these players to find groups. This is how it should be.

 

Players who want to group should be in the habit of cultivating friendships within game, and players who wish to solo should have the option to do so.

 

Now, if you personally know of a toxic player who feels that they will no longer be able to find groups with these changes, then perhaps you could suggest to them that the task of forming and nurturing long term relationships within the game would not only provide them with players to group with, but is also the greatest challenge they will ever find in an online game.

Edited November 18, 2015 by YankeeDelta

[YankeeDelta]

I think a lot of people here fail to realise one simple thing. None of our opinions on the question mattered. NONE. ZERO. NULL.

 

All we did, on both sides of conversation, is made Bioware aware of the problem. That's it. They didn't listen to "vocal minority". They implemented this nerf becouse THEY decided it's warranted. Not us. Not you. DEVELOPERS. The people who know about the basic design of their own game. The ONLY people with opinions that matter here.

 

And inb4 you say something, no, class balancing isn't the same thing as base game design. It's the continuation of it.

 

The opinions that matter here are ultimately the ones that pay the bills. Leadership's job isn't to have an opinion, it's to listen to the customer base and create a project vision that will retain the largest number of subscribers possible. The developer's job isn't to have an opinion either, it's to have the technical expertise to implement the project's vision.

 

This dynamic is complicated, of course, by SWTOR's financial model. In other words, some players pay to play, some players pay to be unique/accessorize, some players pay infrequently, some players pay often, some players pay to play AND accessorize, and still other players don't pay at all.

 

Threads like this are great to help leadership gauge how the community feels about their current vision. What I don't understand is all of the players in here trying to convince players to shut up about how they feel about these changes.

 

Because our opinions, whether we share them or not, MATTER. By voicing them, we at least give the leadership the opportunity to act on them. Even left unvoiced, however, they determine whether we renew our subscriptions or not, and so they ultimately determine the overall financial health of the game.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I stated, clearly and unambiguously, that I would like the ability to play all of the content the game offers, solo, because that is how I enjoy playing the game. I also asked why you feel entitled to an opinion about how I want to play the game.

 

You in turn misrepresented my position as wanting to force all players to solo the game, even if a player wants to group. That is not my position. That has never been my position.

 

Players who want to group for any portion of the game's content, including so called "solo" content, have ALWAYS had the ability to do so. I am simply asking that players who enjoy soloing have the same level of game support.

 

If a player is caustic, selfish, childish, or otherwise unfriendly to be around, then yes, these changes will make it more difficult for these players to find groups. This is how it should be. Bioware should not be in the business of enabling toxic players by providing them with a "forced grouping" game mechanism. These game mechanisms only serve to further enable the selfish, toxic group player.

 

Players who want to group should be in habit of cultivating friendships within game, and players who wish to solo should have the option to do so.

 

Now, if you personally know of a toxic player who feels that they will no longer be able to find groups with these changes, then perhaps you could suggest to them that the task of forming and nurturing long term relationships within the game would not only provide them with players to group with, but is also the greatest challenge they will ever find in an online game.

 

I clearly showed you how your supposed ability to run group content solo impacts upon me and others who want to do it grouped. I misrepresent nothing, you basically want all content at your fingertips to do solo ... in an MMO, it's ridiculous.

Also no solo players should be pretending they are hard done by here and so lacking for choice - the game speaks volumes of evidence to the contrary. For example:

 

They remove the heroic 4's to allow you to have a chance to solo heroics as 2+, that's a ton of group content removed to cater to your play style.

 

They also add pure solo modes to flashpoints to cater to your play style and again remove from the pool of players who would need to do grouped content if they want to experience this content.

 

Now they nerf the companions to make challenging content challenging again and so people can't actually solo ( without being rather skilled ) group content that is meant to be grouped content and all of a sudden the sky is falling.

 

Anyway, what solo content have they removed from you here? I see none and have yet had anyone show me any solo content that's actually been removed.

All you basically keep reaffirming is that you want to be able to solo group content ... too bad, that's not how "group" content works hence the word "group".

 

You can assume why some people might have issues getting a group all you like but fact remains BW aren't listening to you ( or probably anyone ) and are indeed having group content intended for groups, not individuals to solo.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I didnt say it was challenging.. I said it was annoying.. Soloing Star Fortress was challenging pre 4.0.2.. Now? i wont even try it.. due to simply how long it would take IF i could do it.. it took along time to solo before this patch.. after.. i could very easily see having to use heroic moment every single fight, making soloing it take 2+hours and half of that would be waiting for cooldowns

 

Having a (high ranked) DPS companion doing less damage then a healer speced scoundrel that is spamming grenade and the default attack is just plan stupid

 

Nothing about fighting seems heroic now... it feels slow and drawn out

 

Would i cancel my sub if it wasnt already pre-paid until February? Maybe not today.. i'm not that hasty.. if its still like this com February.. I dont see me renewing my sub.. what will i do between now and then? probably not to much swtor.. I have a few other games i've been trying to play though but swtor was taking all my free time because i was actually enjoying playing.. i've played more between early access to KoTFE to yesterday then i had in the 8 months before that combined.. now? i dont even have a desire to login because i dont want to trudge though the content what took me 30 minutes to do yesterday now takes over an hour

 

Fair enough and I'm yet to try it myself but at least the feedback coming back is it isn't impossible.

 

Infact posts like the above imply it's not even that difficult, just time consuming?

 

Luckily SF are only a minor portion of the heroic content in game that you still have at your fingertips.

 

On a side note I wonder how many people who are solo players and are so anti this nerf because they feel it's removing content from them ( or making it more boring etc. ) have actually done all the solo content there is to do i.e. all class stories etc. ... there is just so much content to do in this game solo that yes if you've managed to do it all ( which won't be all these "adults" talking about how they have limited time to play apparently, they wouldn't therefore have the time to do all this content available ) I would think it's time to find something else to do.

[YankeeDelta]

I clearly showed you how your supposed ability to run group content solo impacts upon me and others who want to do it grouped. I misrepresent nothing, you basically want all content at your fingertips to do solo ... in an MMO, it's ridiculous.

Also no solo players should be pretending they are hard done by here and so lacking for choice - the game speaks volumes of evidence to the contrary. For example:

 

They remove the heroic 4's to allow you to have a chance to solo heroics as 2+, that's a ton of group content removed to cater to your play style.

 

They also add pure solo modes to flashpoints to cater to your play style and again remove from the pool of players who would need to do grouped content if they want to experience this content.

 

Now they nerf the companions to make challenging content challenging again and so people can't actually solo ( without being rather skilled ) group content that is meant to be grouped content and all of a sudden the sky is falling.

 

Anyway, what solo content have they removed from you here? I see none and have yet had anyone show me any solo content that's actually been removed.

All you basically keep reaffirming is that you want to be able to solo group content ... too bad, that's not how "group" content works hence the word "group".

 

You can assume why some people might have issues getting a group all you like but fact remains BW aren't listening to you ( or probably anyone ) and are indeed having group content intended for groups, not individuals to solo.

 

So your argument is essentially this: allowing players to solo content impacts me because I enjoy experiencing content in a group. However, I lack the people skills to get 3 or more players to voluntarily group with me. Therefore, Bioware needs to keep a reserved set of content set aside, and if players wish to experience said content they will be forced to group with me.

 

Seriously? THAT'S your argument? Game mechanics that exist solely to support the "toxic group player" playstyle?

[Nyla]

Actually, everything in the entertainment business is about money and often relies on creation and appeasement of consumptive desire.

 

Whether or not the consumer had fun is of no intrinsic concern. We're they satisfied with the experience and will they pay to participate in its consumption again? Will they spread a positive message about the product and make themselves part of the revenue generation process?

 

Colloquially speaking, it doesn't matter if the audience loved the show; it matters if they'll come and see the next one too and possibly bring paying friends. The two are not necessarily relative.

 

Just like how MMO and group content isn't a necessary relationship of things. The fact that the MMO industry has been moving strongly towards solo friendly gameplay over the years presumably isn't happening by accident.

 

I'm willing to bet that the marketing lads and lasses behind such shifts in the tide know far better than most what's going on with such things, even if they very obviously have a lot of experimenting yet to do in continuing to refine the products in question to hold the most profitable value over time to the most economically viable demographic in their target market.

 

Rotary phones sure were distinct though. That rapid fire click click click of turning the wheel, the faint resistance of the whisper quiet rotor, the way they often had real bell and striker ringers.

 

Very distinct. Alas, they are outmoded now and barely compatible with any of the actual needs and demands of the telecom industry.

 

Just like mmo's being making group content a primary focus. It's a dwindling design method. It's appeal will never be entirely gone, but we're never going to see another Everquest 1 take root and get to be more than very, very niche nowadays, at best.

 

And very likely simple wind up going under almost immediately for massive jack of appeal to what the people query the money typically want.

 

Because it's all about money.

 

2 different PoVs on the same subject. I was talking from a player PoV, you're talking about the company PoV.

 

It's effectively obvious that the current shift in MMO design is led by marketing and suits trying to milk players as much as they can.

But tbh, I doubt they know that much considering the difference in playerbase between MMOs.

 

Imo, game companies going after the big money don't really understand the entertainment business. Next to mainstream music and movies with thoses blockbusters and well known artists, you can find lots of different projects that are still profitable, they might generate less money in value but aren't as costly either.

 

SWTOR is one of the best example of MMOs created by a company that don't understand MMOs or their different playerbases. If the goal was really to go after the money, they would have chosen to make a casual solo friendly game since the start. Even in the current state, they fail at that, while the KotFE story is a good step in that direction, their inability to produce enough content and to provide light grind will lead thoses players away.

The same way, many things that were added between launch and KotFE makes no sense with the casual solo friendly goal: NiM and to a point HMs, ranked PvP, GSF, strongholds, achievements... all thoses aren't made for that target, they are a waste of ressources that could have been better used.

The reason SWTOR failed at launch was that it wasn't casual solo friendly enough for the casual solo players while being at same time not MMO enough for the MMO veteran players.

 

While the reason for a player to play or continue to play a game are indeed somewhat complicated, having fun, spending a good time... are part of the reasons they do so. Being only satisfied is enough to play a game but it's also a risky situation because people are one step from being attracted by something else and while it doesn't matter when you have a huge playerbase, it's a problem when you don't.

[Kalfear]

blah blah blah

THAT WAS A CHALLENGE

 

blah blah blah

THAT WAS A CHALLENGE

 

blah blah blah

THAT WAS A CHALLENGE

 

Surviving the death of parents ...

THAT WAS A CHALLENGE

 

I can spend the next few pages listing more REAL LIFE Challenges ...

 

...

 

Said it yourself

 

REAL LIFE CHALLENGES

 

This is a video game

Video game have a different form of challenges

 

If you truly unable to tell the different between the death of your parents (you used it as an example first) and the leveling of a virtual character in a MMORPG

 

you probably should not be gaming

 

Vastly different examples and situations that have nothing to do with each other

 

and has absolutely nothing to do with content of a video game offering a challenge

 

You are trying to compare real life with virtual

step away from the computer and learn the difference between the two.

 

PLEASE

For your own sake

[Magnouss]

And some people play games for the challenge, because it is fun to them. In a openworld mmo there is no way to offer different difficulties, apart from having easier and more difficult areas. But when people demand that it is their right that more difficult OPTIONAL content (that's what Heroics used to be) be nerfed for solo consumption you are directly infringing on other people's concept of fun.

There has to be a compromise between casual joyriding and challenge.

Apart from that, I think that making heroics necessary in the Alliance progression was a bad design decision, because it mixes the casual-solo and difficult-solo/group-players paradigms and is thus contradictory/inconsistent.

What I personally dont get is, that the player base is so vocal to heap accusations and insults upon their fellow gamers for a series of botched design choices made by Bioware.

 

And here lies one of the problems. There is nothing really to do but the Star Fortresses as a solo player. I've already done them on 3 characters and I could probably still get through them on at least 2 of them as is, but it just isn't worth the grind if they are going to be painful to go through. Overall, I more or less agree with what you have to say. I wouldn't care if heroic 2 star fortresses are a pain if there was more to the alliance system.

[YankeeDelta]

Said it yourself

 

REAL LIFE CHALLENGES

 

This is a video game

Video game have a different form of challenges

 

If you truly unable to tell the different between the death of your parents (you used it as an example first) and the leveling of a virtual character in a MMORPG

 

you probably should not be gaming

 

Vastly different examples and situations that have nothing to do with each other

 

and has absolutely nothing to do with content of a video game offering a challenge

 

You are trying to compare real life with virtual

step away from the computer and learn the difference between the two.

 

PLEASE

For your own sake

 

I believe the point being made was that there are many different types of players in games.

 

One type, for example, is the achiever, who derives satisfaction from achieving things in game. Another type is, say, the explorer, who derives satisfaction by exploring all of the content a game has to offer.

 

Now legend has it that each type of player finds all of the other types of players utterly ridiculous in their motivations for playing games. In a diabolical twist, however, a wicked spell called "free market" requires a game to appeal to all of the different player types in order to stay financially solvent.

 

The free market spell, ironically enough, groups the different player types into close enough proximity that they can continually hurl insults at one another while misunderstanding what the other groups are trying to communicate to them.

 

I've heard it's hilarious to witness in person, so if anyone ever hears about it happening somewhere please let me know so I can see for myself.

[Raphael_diSanto]

I'm sorry for how harsh this sounds, but that's playing with toys. It's not playing a game. Games require there to be some challenge, some learning, some resistance or they cease being games and instead become toys.

 

I know some folks would like that. The would have no problem with the game being easy enough that they can play with their characters like they are action figures. There's nothing wrong with wanting that, but that's not what this product is intended to be.

 

Well, since there isn't any other way for us to get our talking heads fix, y'all are just going to have to put up with us complaining about the nerf, because yes, we did like the way it was before 4.0.2. If that's what a "game" is supposed to be, then I don't want a game. Never wanted a game. But they don't make what I want, so I'm here instead.

 

Games are form of entertainment IE they are meant to be fun. if they stop being fun then they stop being entertaining.

 

Exactly.

 

If those "RAWR MUST HAVE CHALLENGE" testosterone-overloaded types want a challenge, they can go play computer chess against Deep Blue. I'm here for the story.

[KJOhio]

If those "RAWR MUST HAVE CHALLENGE" testosterone-overloaded types want a challenge, they can go play computer chess against Deep Blue. I'm here for the story.

 

^^^ This.

 

Most of these RAWR players have no life - no challenges - dad pays their bills. I have to work, take care of family - pay bills. So I play games to relax - not for punishment.

[Uruare]

. 2 different PoVs on the same subject. I was talking from a player PoV, you're talking about the company PoV.

 

A fair observation. We might indeed dining be feeling up different parts of this elephant in the room.

 

It's effectively obvious that the current shift in MMO design is led by marketing and suits trying to milk players as much as they can.

But tbh, I doubt they know that much considering the difference in playerbase between MMOs.

 

Shooting from the hip, as I don't work in an entertainment business though do work in an aerospace business, it looks sometimes like MMOS in particular get a lot of quick and dirty development that'd never, ever be acceptable S&P in a field like mine.

 

Design by committee combined with hydra-headed mismanagement and a presumed Stygian nightmare of miscommunication and possibly outright corruption, for example, might well be why SWTOR here turned out to be such mightily expensive gold-plated testament to mediocrity and appeal to that which was already on the way out of market relevance.

 

I don't know that for sure, but when one sees a mangled corpse and is familiar with what 'death by animal attack' looks like, one can sometimes inductively reason their way to perhaps accurate enough conclusions about how this fiasco came to pass.

 

 

Imo, game companies going after the big money don't really understand the entertainment business. Next to mainstream music and movies with thoses blockbusters and well known artists, you can find lots of different projects that are still profitable, they might generate less money in value but aren't as costly either.

 

That, I'm inclined to absolutely agree with. The MMO industry in particular, while not being one that I'm intimately familiar with the internal realities of, nevertheless still looks to me like the lawless wild west of all things engineering and developmental, where not one identifiable crap is given about any of the lessons of business, operating procedure or efficiency standards learned in any other field by anyone ever.

 

In other words, it looks like they do a whole lot of trying to reinvent not just the wheel, but the entire process of effective management doing with it.

 

SWTOR is one of the best example of MMOs created by a company that don't understand MMOs or their different playerbases. If the goal was really to go after the money, they would have chosen to make a casual solo friendly game since the start. Even in the current state, they fail at that, while the KotFE story is a good step in that direction, their inability to produce enough content and to provide light grind will lead thoses players away.

 

The glaring contradictions in this game's manifest design intentions led to my becoming completely uninterested in it about a year ago and vanishing without a trace thereafter.

 

This game's never been designed like effective leadership with a clear goal in mind, let alone a good clear goal, has ever occurred in its vicinity.

 

With the way this thing but the ground at launch, I was left stunned by the complete inability to tell where the money went. We knew even then that this has been one of the most expensive MMOs in history to develop, but what we collectively got was a shoddy, schizophrenic permutation of cut corners and whatever seemed to have been hastily dug out of WoW's burning crusade era trash that could be slapped together.

 

The way things fell out with the dev team and a lot of the administrative force in the year and some following looked to me like heads were rolling by the bucket load, and for all the proud declarations that this game would never go free to play, once EA lopped a lot of heads off, it promptly went F2P with an almost vindictive immediacy.

 

Just from my humble little spot of being a player on the wall, I don't have much of a vantage point, but it looks very much to me like what happens when a business mismanages a vast fortune and is put to the axe by the executives that are left having to answer to shareholders on exactly what the hell happened.

 

I imagine a whole lot of buck passing, excuse mongering and toadying transpired, and that it didn't save most in the end.

 

 

The same way, many things that were added between launch and KotFE makes no sense with the casual solo friendly goal: NiM and to a point HMs, ranked PvP, GSF, strongholds, achievements... all thoses aren't made for that target, they are a waste of ressources that could have been better used.

The reason SWTOR failed at launch was that it wasn't casual solo friendly enough for the casual solo players while being at same time not MMO enough for the MMO veteran players.

 

Agreed. This thing apparently designed in a mire of bad communications and very likely just plain schizophrenic target designations.

 

Too many chefs in the kitchen barking too many conflicting orders, I wonder? I'll surely never know. But this game never did know what it wanted to be when it grew up and it managed to go exactly nowhere that dang neat everything that'd been on the market for sometimes nearly ten years at that point hadn't gone before.

 

After the Great Purge of devs and presumably many others behind their scenes when and as this this got punted into free to play land, things tightened up in that respect in general, though it's only with FE here that it looks like attempts are strongly being made to really decide what this things going to be when it grows up.

 

It looks like they have no idea what they're doing in making it so, but then, I work in aerospace, and I'm accustomed to levels of design testing that don't seem to exist at all in this strange MMO industry where everything looks like it is shot from the hip and ego seems to play a role, and a significant one, in development processes.

 

I can't relate to either at all, though I strongly suspect that a lot of suits and cronies thereof make off with billions every year exploiting 'the new industry that can't work like other industries do because of reasons'.

 

Just a feeling that I get. Fools and their money are soon parted, and foolish investments are kind've easy to find by the score out in these MMO parts.

 

 

 

 

 

While the reason for a player to play or continue to play a game are indeed somewhat complicated, having fun, spending a good time... are part of the reasons they do so. Being only satisfied is enough to play a game but it's also a risky situation because people are one step from being attracted by something else and while it doesn't matter when you have a huge playerbase, it's a problem when you don't.

 

Wouldn't it be amazing if an MMO studio someday set forth to make an MMO that was actually about the players having fun, rather than as a vehicle for exploitation of time wasting mechanisms and Skinner Box redesigns?

 

A game in which the design intention, from the ground up, really was firstly and foremostly built with the clear and unambiguously driving intention of being an enjoyable experience that the targeted audience might actually want can easily be found, but not in MMO land.

 

Not unless one enjoys the common designs that are explicitly made to waste your time and make getting from point A to point B in whatever fashion as tedious as the market will bear.

 

There's a whole lot of aspiration to meeting the minimum requirements to meet projected profit goals in this neck of the woods, and it disgusts me.

 

If my industry behaved like this, airplanes would still require someone to get out and throw the propeller to fire the engine and we'd be spending millions upon tens of millions on trying to advertise unpressurized flight replete with windburn and hypothermia as a hardcore proving-ground experience.

 

We'd be giving out little medals hallmarking the 'achievements' of those that put up with a lot of this absolutely unjustifiable stupidity because e wouldn't give one identifiable damn if there were happy about it, just so long as that were stupid enough to keep throwing money at trying to be.

 

We'd base the entirety of our business strategies on trying to make sure no part of our collective target market was ever too satisfied with anything in order to maximize the predictability of sales in meaninglessly incremental improvements that we'd only start utilizing when we needed to bump profits back up to meet our projected earnings milestones.

 

I have a very hard time feeling one iota of professional respect for what it very well looks to be here in MMO land. I might not be behind any of these games' scenes to know firsthand what's really going on behind those curtains, but I've got fifteen years experience in business.

 

I can recognize the signs of mismanagement, incompetence and exploitative practices just as well as a doctor might be able to, at a glance, t tell us that a shark attack victim's corpse probably isn't in chewed up pieces because they got old and had heart problems.

 

It'd be nice if fun took center stage in MMO development someday though.

 

Maybe we'll see it happen for the first time sometime in our lifetimes, eh?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Uruare

[Andrellma]

For the same reason why everything else was nerfed. Because they looked at the metrics, decided "this is wrong" and fixed it.

 

Fixed

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So your argument is essentially this: allowing players to solo content impacts me because I enjoy experiencing content in a group. However, I lack the people skills to get 3 or more players to voluntarily group with me. Therefore, Bioware needs to keep a reserved set of content set aside, and if players wish to experience said content they will be forced to group with me.

 

Seriously? THAT'S your argument? Game mechanics that exist solely to support the "toxic group player" playstyle?

 

See now you're just being a strawman. Interpreting my reply in a way that furthers your own argument without actually replying to what I posted at all.

 

Again - what solo content has been removed? How have you been impacted?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If those "RAWR MUST HAVE CHALLENGE" testosterone-overloaded types want a challenge, they can go play computer chess against Deep Blue. I'm here for the story.

 

^^^ This.

 

Most of these RAWR players have no life - no challenges - dad pays their bills. I have to work, take care of family - pay bills. So I play games to relax - not for punishment.

 

It's people who usually claim others have no life are the ones who have no lives themselves.

 

Especially those that would resort to such pettiness over having something minor like their companions strength being nerfed back to what Bioware intended. Nothing has been removed from you, you can do all the content you could prior to the overpowered companions being introduced and more ( heroics all being made 2+ for example ).

 

On that note when your companion is doing all the work for you you're not playing the game, you're watching it. They have movies and TV shows that will allow you to accompish that same level of "relaxation".

 

As for this relaxation it seems to me you would rather rage on a forums that have this supposed fun and relaxation you and other speak of. Funny stuff.

[CodeEmperor]

Having the forum all day at work after the maintenance fiasco I was afraid the game would be completely unplayable with the companion nerf or h2 quests would take way longer.

So far it does not look that bad.

I have done the quests on Yavin and the H2 dailies on DK and both went without any problems pulling multiple mob groups. Even in the h2 quests I usually pulled 2 grps of mobs.

Char used: lvl 65 Virulence Sniper with mostly 204 gear and 2 items 216.

Companion used: Senya Tirall Influence lvl 3.

 

Yes the heal is definitely a lot weaker and I will have to check and see how well the Makeb h2 are going but its not unplayable.

No I have not tried heroic SF as I had not done that pre nerf either. However seeing the reduced healing number I can see that being either extremely hard ( depending on the class ) or impossible.

 

i doubt they will bring the companions back to the power level they were at pre patch but I hope they will buff them a little bit.

[ChaosIsGolden]

I'm sorry for how harsh this sounds, but that's playing with toys. It's not playing a game. Games require there to be some challenge, some learning, some resistance or they cease being games and instead become toys.

 

I know some folks would like that. The would have no problem with the game being easy enough that they can play with their characters like they are action figures. There's nothing wrong with wanting that, but that's not what this product is intended to be.

 

You do realize if this game wants to survive the long haul that's what it needs to be, not everyone has time to grind for the good stuff. They have enough time to run a few things here or there, play maybe an hour then go back to real life. MMO's are not growing or quite as popular as they use to be, Bioware/EA made a smart call by catering not just to their serious players, but their casual player base. Killing an aspect that made it entertaining for those that are casual's was not smart, and talking about people that enjoy this aspect as you are just show's how immature you really are.

 

Besides Bioware/EA has been nerfing this game since it came out, look at Lost Island of today vs when it originally came out, yeah that was no fun on my marauder.

[Senkoau]

^^^ This.

 

Most of these RAWR players have no life - no challenges - dad pays their bills. I have to work, take care of family - pay bills. So I play games to relax - not for punishment.

 

It's people who usually claim others have no life are the ones who have no lives themselves.

 

Especially those that would resort to such pettiness over having something minor like their companions strength being nerfed back to what Bioware intended. Nothing has been removed from you, you can do all the content you could prior to the overpowered companions being introduced and more ( heroics all being made 2+ for example ).

 

On that note when your companion is doing all the work for you you're not playing the game, you're watching it. They have movies and TV shows that will allow you to accompish that same level of "relaxation".

 

As for this relaxation it seems to me you would rather rage on a forums that have this supposed fun and relaxation you and other speak of. Funny stuff.

 

Actually I can't do H+2 that I could before with the companions as they are currently. I'm just not sure if that's a problem with the companions or previous H4+ being incorrectly changed to H2+ (mobs still too hard for someone who just got to that planet on their first character vs endgame/highly experienced returning or playing with a huge slew of bonuses and prior knowledge)

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Then it's a good time to ask for help.

The gear you have, the influence level, the heroic you have issue with, the tactics you've tried etc.etc.

 

When people want to learn and make the effort to pass the challenging content it becomes far less challenging.

[dvmcm]

On my Sorc, I went out to test things out after the patch, doing the more 'challenging' H2s. I'm in 5 piece comm 220s rest 216s (except for relics still 192s). Hilt and offhand are both 220. Every piece is augmented.

 

My Companion, Talos (love this ****er for some reason) is rank 50.

 

Can I complete them all? Yes. Of course. Was it tough at times? A bit. What you say? A bit? LTP! I'm not an idiot (I swear!). I have many characters and have read and learned all their rotations etc.

 

There were so many times Talos just *********** stood there. I was at 25% health after a fight and mfer just stood there. No healing. No nothing. Just stood there looking creepy and dumb.

 

There were definitely times I was certain I would die. 'Almost' die in mostly 220s, grinding rep that Eric said would be doable for most players seems off to me.

 

Not complaining. Just my observation.

 

-Danielle

 

/posting in other relevant threads

[Dumack]

For the same reason why everything else was nerfed. A small but vocal group would not shut up about it.

 

That about sums it up... forum trolls who *****ed about "skill" which in reality = wasted time. Now watch as BW loses about half of it's player base due to a few scumbags who litter the forums all damn day long while they don't play the game.

[Sewerus]

That about sums it up... forum trolls who *****ed about "skill" which in reality = wasted time. Now watch as BW loses about half of it's player base due to a few scumbags who litter the forums all damn day long while they don't play the game.

 

I hope that they learn this time, not to listen to vocal minority.

But they probably not.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Sewerus

[Neoforcer]

Try it out first before jumping to conclusions. BW have to strike a balance between people who want to play without challenge and people who want to play with challenge. Dunno if they got it right here but I'll give it a go and see what happens first.

 

I am expecting a lot of crying about Star Fortress btw, but we'll see.

 

Tried it you know what i am seeing in chat as i do people complaining there dieing as new players as they do not have what we founders have and saying screw this i am out. Every heroic you here one guy going it fine now leave it be and 50 people complaining it is not.