Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[shawn_the_geek]

While I think the bait and switch concept is a little off, the thing is they have a reason for wanting a slower pace in the game I believe. They remember at lunch what happened when people finished the game too fast. People had fun... finsihed the story... canceled subscription. The game "pace" is determined in part by how easily you solo and they wanted a slower pace for 4.0 because of this memory. heck the entire design of the expac with the phasing in of chapters, smaller rewards for weeklies but more weeklies, is all an attempt to "stretch out" the content.

 

While we like to assign nefarious motives for changes that effect us on an emotional level, USUALLY the reasons for changes are made then is the same as most changes. People make mistakes for no other reason than they screwed up and BW has a LONG history of that with this game.

I've been playing since the game launched back in December of 2011 and while I always found the game fun I found it the most fun with OP companions. Before the OP companions there were times I had to force myself to play because of how tedious and annoying some of the fights are. Before 4.0.2 I was having a blast and found none of the fights annoying or tedious. It renewed my love for the game. Come 4.0.2 and now that love is now gone.

 

I'm not ashamed to admit that I prefer having an easier time. I prefer easy over challenging. I play for the story, not the challenge. This goes back to it being optional. Give everyone the choice to have OP or non-Op companions. Reward people for challenging themselves. I'm fine with losing out on credits or a piece of gear if it means my companions are OP.

[Ghisallo]

I kind of get the impression that they expected the Alliance Grind to take much longer than it did. Hoping that the grind would take people through until whenever the next chapter drops, instead, it only takes about three weeks if you're only doing the heroics on one character, or much less if you're using the Heroic crates from other toons or buying them with crystals.

 

I think through nerfing companions, I agree that it's an attempt again to stretch out that content, making the Alliance Grind take longer.

 

This is exactly what I think happened. Maybe the complaints on the forums pointed it out BUT they went in and looked to see how fast people were progressing with the alliance factions. They then said "oh crap it's 2012 all over again, no way people will hold out for chapter 10, let alone 11, 12..." etc. So they nerfed the companions to slow the pace.

[sunsplode]

Guys, don't beat on other players over the nerf, let's not get distracted. The 'elites' aren't the reason for the nerf - look at the things they don't have and are constantly talking about. The only elite here is the company, which has pushed through with the nerf despite the protests and evidence, and not as far as I know come out to address the unhappiness.

[RealKraschman]

Neither of those is actually true. It was easy and non-challenging on Monday, and still possible today.

Not remotely in my experience so far. My DPS Shadow with 208 gear and level 21 Lana can't even get past the first Knight of Zakuul, let alone further. And I've tried Lana in every role.

 

Before, they definitely weren't challenging enough to be sure, but a single gold mob by themselves shouldn't be that hard.

 

Tried some other Heroics on my 65 Juggernaut, and they're a bit challenging but definitely beatable.

 

The Star Fortress Heroics are a whole other ball of wax.

[Khiriath]

Mine shows an HPS of 1231 with a level 18 Lana. Also remember something... the top gear she had then was gone. Lana at 50 would be the old tiers "top geared" Lana, sine they replaced her gear progression with affection.

 

Link or it didn't happen.

 

I got ppl in my guild in 190 gear(granted bolstered in ops) that are learning to heal that are putting out 2.5k HPS. Players are putting out 8.5k EHPS in SM ops(see parsely undger Gharj for example). I'm willing to accept that such a parse represents a good player, probably in good gear. My problem is the disparity btwn that and what comps are now doing.

[Ingenon]

Since the update completed on my computer, I have completed a solo flashpoint (Taral V) with my level 30 Jedi Guardian Vigilance, using my companion in Heal mode. Finished the flash point plus most of the bonus missions. Went on to do a class mission. Finished the class mission.

 

Yes, it is more challenging then it was before the nerf. The game is still fun.

[eartharioch]

Or maybe then, again, something was launched in an unintended state. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I think this, and the slot machine, were not because of a small number of players complaining, I think it is because BW has "issues" with proper QA and over all testing. When you look at how many new bugs get introduced with each content update, along with all of the balancing they do after words for weeks or even months, that seems a far more logical conclusion, imo, rather than assuming that two big changes are lied about.

 

tl;dr: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[StarMagus]

What makes me laugh is that the Bioware drone had the nerve to say this.

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes.

 

It's not "a bit" weaker, as healers they were nerfed over 50% across the board on their heals, and rough 10-15% On Health.

 

DPS is down 30% or so on the companion I compared at Influence 10 level 65 pre and post patch.

 

In fact my Companion post patch at level 42 is still very much weaker than a pre-patch level 10 and will probably still be so at 50 as the scaling of increases isn't very much despite their claims.

[Nireesh]

Well when I first read about this I was not happy. But then I tried some heroics for myself.. first the ord ones (super easy), then some Corellia ones,.. not super easy, but not hard either. I'd prefer it like it was before the patch just for time management.. I liked to go through the heroics faster, but this seems more realistic to me. Why didn't they make it like this in the first place when 4.0 dropped? That would've been much better,..

 

I'm also concerned about my wife who is just learning to play and might have difficulty now. Not really fair to new players with less presence etc etc.

[DurdensWrath]

Link or it didn't happen.

 

I got ppl in my guild in 190 gear(granted bolstered in ops) that are learning to heal that are putting out 2.5k HPS. Players are putting out 8.5k EHPS in SM ops(see parsely undger Gharj for example). I'm willing to accept that such a parse represents a good player, probably in good gear. My problem is the disparity btwn that and what comps are now doing.

 

He got lana at 50 confused. He thought it meant lana at 50 influence. Not Lana at level 50 equivalent.

 

Since the update completed on my computer, I have completed a solo flashpoint (Taral V) with my level 30 Jedi Guardian Vigilance, using my companion in Heal mode. Finished the flash point plus most of the bonus missions. Went on to do a class mission. Finished the class mission.

Wow are you oblivious. Solo FP != Heroic SF > Heroic Planetaries. Keep up please. Edited November 18, 2015 by DurdensWrath

[Shipwright]

Well they asked for feedback.

 

It is an over nerf. Companions were never this weak. Can I still play? Yeah. Do I want to? Not as much. This was clearly way over done. To each his own, but how this cannot be seen as going too far is baffling.

 

I won't freak out; if it feels to tedious to me I'll play something else.

[Magnouss]

This is exactly what I think happened. Maybe the complaints on the forums pointed it out BUT they went in and looked to see how fast people were progressing with the alliance factions. They then said "oh crap it's 2012 all over again, no way people will hold out for chapter 10, let alone 11, 12..." etc. So they nerfed the companions to slow the pace.

 

What is the point of progressing with the alliance factions anyhow? I'm influence 10 with all of them so that I could get the decorations from the Star Fortress achievement, but what is the point of going up to 20? There should have been much more to this system than just allowing people to get extra companions.

[Caelrie]

The Star Fortress Heroics are a whole other ball of wax.

 

And yet people are doing it.

[LordArtemis]

Ok, this is my experience so far.

 

I use this one VERY NARROW example, this is just the beginning, I want to run as many heroics as possible, including some that folks pointed out where problems, and ones I knew were difficult before with certain combinations.

 

Black Hole - EoT Solo

 

Prior to this patch I was able to finish this run in 10 minutes with little to no strategy required. Khem Val required healing quite often, but never crept below half health. I was hit hard a few times but that was because Khem lost aggro or could not keep it. He also pulled everything in the room more than once.

 

Overall a 4 on the difficulty level from 1 to 10. Before 4.0 the difficulty was probably a 6, 5 once I overleveled it.

 

Latest run post 4.0.2

 

Khem held aggro much better this time, and every time he needed healing, but not much usually, with the exception of twice. Had to use some strategy, but not as much as prior to 4.0. Hit 1/4 health once on a tough room, but survived. In a few situations I found more difficulty than prior to 4.0, in others I found it actually easier than 4.0. It was a very odd mix. This is difficult to score, but it took 18 minutes (due to a few tough fights that probably should not have been tough) and I score it a 7 overall.

 

I think some adjustment is appropriate. Leaving out healing, I believe a small boost to presence/influence effect is in order, but it shouldn't be much.

 

I will test other heroics and leave notes, but overall this wasn't that bad for me. If it has to stay as it is, at least for tank comps it is workable it seems.

 

Some notes: Khem is IL49, I have most datacrons unlocked, used a presence buff and have presence in my gear. I am level 65 in around 178 gear.

Edited November 18, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Slashice]

Is it just me or does it really look like that after the patch the game fails to scale up our companions strength base on our influence? So far it looks like that my level 21 influence companion does same healing as my level 10 influence companion.

 

Before the patch I thought that nerfing companions is needed but not that much. Sure a middle way can be found or just simply fix the scaling if that's the case.

[GabbyMe]

Things are still doable. I ran through the Corellia heroics on my sentinel with a influence 22 Theron Shan as a TANK. And I got through it just fine. He couldn't keep up the healing with the damage output just because she's squishy She's in a mix of 208/216 gear. I know what I'm doing for the most part.

 

If you know basic MMO raiding/dungeon rules. CC, defensive cooldowns, line of sight. Yes, they swung the nerfbat hard. But things are still doable, just need to use your brain a bit more.

 

I haven't tried a heroic Star Fortress yet, considering my husband told me to 'wait or else'. I did one a few days ago in my 208/216 gear and it was challenging. I died quite a bit on the Exarch, but managed to kill him. Don't think I can pull that off now. Gonna have to wait for him to decide what he wants to do it all on. /sigh

 

My verdict to Bioware: Might want to unnerf them a bit. Take the 50% down to 25% or something. For the sake of 'ain't nobody got time for that'.

Edited November 18, 2015 by GabbyMe

[Ingenon]

Wow are you oblivious. Solo FP != Heroic SF > Heroic Planetaries. Keep up please.

 

I gave my opinion about the change. I can live with it. The game is still fun.

 

You are entitled to your own opinion.

[Brayla_Sana]

1. There is still the main hand bug. It is not fixed. You get about 30% more dps/heals by equipping a statted weapon on the main-hand, and storing/calling the companion.

 

2. DPS companion with healer player works okay for me. I can still get my Heroic 2's done, (I have not tried Star Fortress) but they are back to being tedious and boring.

 

3. When I switch to a healer companion and DPS player, Heroic +2's are not doable. The companion is under-scaled and he cannot heal me and himself.

 

I have about 1/2 of datacrons done, and I have 208 gear. Level 45 Influence Koth.

 

Why did we not put this on the test server first? Seriously?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Brayla_Sana
Spelling

[shawn_the_geek]

I gave my opinion about the change. I can live with it. The game is still fun.

 

You are entitled to your own opinion.

For you it is still fun. That doesn't mean it is still fun for everyone.

[Ghisallo]

Link or it didn't happen.

 

I got ppl in my guild in 190 gear(granted bolstered in ops) that are learning to heal that are putting out 2.5k HPS. Players are putting out 8.5k EHPS in SM ops(see parsely undger Gharj for example). I'm willing to accept that such a parse represents a good player, probably in good gear. My problem is the disparity btwn that and what comps are now doing.

 

http://1drv.ms/1j6SRuU

 

She is 19 now, was 18 at the time. As I said I was also on a guardian so I did have access to some CDs. The parse one is the way it is because I run a 2 monitor system. As I also said... I will never make such a claim unless I am willing to produce proof of it.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

What is the point of progressing with the alliance factions anyhow? I'm influence 10 with all of them so that I could get the decorations from the Star Fortress achievement, but what is the point of going up to 20? There should have been much more to this system than just allowing people to get extra companions.

 

Getting to 20 likely has to o with new achievements, maybe even necessities, that we will see in the up coming chapters.

[Ghisallo]

Ok, this is my experience so far.

 

I use this one VERY NARROW example, this is just the beginning, I want to run as many heroics as possible, including some that folks pointed out where problems, and ones I knew were difficult before with certain combinations.

 

Black Hole - EoT Solo

 

Prior to this patch I was able to finish this run in 10 minutes with little to no strategy required. Khem Val required healing quite often, but never crept below half health. I was hit hard a few times but that was because Khem lost aggro or could not keep it. He also pulled everything in the room more than once.

 

Overall a 4 on the difficulty level from 1 to 10. Before 4.0 the difficulty was probably a 6, 5 once I overleveled it.

 

Latest run post 4.0.2

 

Khem held aggro much better this time, and every time he needed healing, but not much usually, with the exception of twice. Had to use some strategy, but not as much as prior to 4.0. Hit 1/4 health once on a tough room, but survived. In a few situations I found more difficulty than prior to 4.0, in others I found it actually easier than 4.0. It was a very odd mix. This is difficult to score, but it took 18 minutes (due to a few tough fights that probably should not have been tough) and I score it a 7 overall.

 

I think some adjustment is appropriate. Leaving out healing, I believe a small boost to presence/influence effect is in order, but it shouldn't be much.

 

I will test other heroics and leave notes, but overall this wasn't that bad for me. If it has to stay as it is, at least for tank comps it is workable it seems.

 

Some notes: Khem is IL49, I have most datacrons unlocked, used a presence buff and have presence in my gear. I am level 65 in around 178 gear.

 

Oh I have been meaning to say... I am not saying that some adjustment is not called for at all. I see balancing like when I was in the Army calling in artillery. first you may over shoot, your correction may then undershoot. Eventually though, after a couple of corrections you can say "fire for effect" because you are on target.

 

My only contention is that the global term "impossible" is not appropriate for what we have here.

[Ghisallo]

tl;dr: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

or sloppiness,but yes... pretty much.

[Ghisallo]

He got lana at 50 confused. He thought it meant lana at 50 influence. Not Lana at level 50 equivalent.

 

Correct. This new system does have me a little confused, add in level sync and... oi

[jakeobione]

It's comical how MMO developers keep making the same mistakes and killing their games. There is reason Wow is still around, and stomping it's competition still. Wow devs figured out where balance needs to be made first, AT THE LOW END, then adjust up.

 

All this patch did was screw new players, and people with low gear/influence/legacy. It didn't do much to people like me with nothing but time on hands and ridiculous legacy. Bioware did a flat % nerf across the whole of healing and DPS, what exactly did they think was going to happen at the low end ?

 

It's like clockwork with these failed MMO's.

Edited November 18, 2015 by jakeobione