Why nerf all but PT and Sniper?

[TitusOfTides]

As stated in various threads, many passive abilities which used to buff critical damage by 30% have been decreased to 10% to compensate for the changes 4.0 made to how critical damage is calculated.

 

The only two classes I know of that obtain their 30% critical damage passive are AP PTs and MM Snipers - both of which are outclassing all other specs in ST DPS.

 

What I fail to realize is why do these classes have the higher buff? It is directly contributing to their chart topping DPS. If these were adjusted to 10% their damage would still be high, but it is my belief that this would bring the DPS classes to a level playing field (boosting us all back to 30% would be cool too).

Edited November 16, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[Troelsen]

Buffing everyone back to 30% would create an even bigger burst problem in PvP. MM/SS and AP/Tactics need to be brought in line.

[TitusOfTides]

Buffing everyone back to 30% would create an even bigger burst problem in PvP. MM/SS and AP/Tactics need to be brought in line.

 

Good point. I agree, now that you put it in perspective. Buffing up to 30% across the board would be too much; 10% is where we all should be.

 

 

I'm really curious whether or not this was intentional. The way I see it, one of two things happened:

 

1) Someone forgot to apply the 10% change to both ACs... on both factions.

 

2) They thought it would be ok.

 

#1 relies too much on coincidence, so a I am inclined to say it is #2. They honestly thought this would work!?

 

There's been a lot of Bioware feedback lately, and it'd be great to get some on this issue. Myself and many others would be greatful to understand why this is as it is.

Edited November 16, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[Morath]

Please keep in mind the affect this would have on healing. I think its better to give the 30% back than to Nerf dps and inadvertently buff sorcs more.

[Kawabonga]

Please keep in mind the affect this would have on healing. I think its better to give the 30% back than to Nerf dps and inadvertently buff sorcs more.

 

None. This would have no effect on healing whatsoever. The surge bonuses are in specific DPS discipline trees and for specific abilities.

[Tenacity]

None. This would have no effect on healing whatsoever. The surge bonuses are in specific DPS discipline trees and for specific abilities.

 

I dont think you understood his comment.

 

If you remove the 30% boost, it's going to be harder to kill targets that are receiving healing (and thus harder to kill healers, which are already difficult to 1v1). That damage boost makes taking out healers possible.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

"Why nerf all but PT"

 

cUZ PT needs to be superior to other dirty peasants who roll "****ti" classes

[TitusOfTides]

Please keep in mind the affect this would have on healing. I think its better to give the 30% back than to Nerf dps and inadvertently buff sorcs more.

 

Between the two options, I think this is the best one now. Lowering the rest would make healers that much stronger, so bringing the affected classes back to 30% would be best. Although, I do believe that if we were all set to 10% and that patch were partnered with something bringing healing in line more, this would be even better (except that gives them two chances to mess up on an update, lol...).

[Troelsen]

Between the two options, I think this is the best one now. Lowering the rest would make healers that much stronger, so bringing the affected classes back to 30% would be best. Although, I do believe that if we were all set to 10% and that patch were partnered with something bringing healing in line more, this would be even better (except that gives them two chances to mess up on an update, lol...).

What about burst? Making it easier to pressure healers is a dial that also makes it easier for enemies to kill each other. Would this be a problem? I suppose that depends on how long you like games to last, or how fast you like getting blown up inside of a stun.

 

I'd take the risk for the second option and find a way to bring healers in line without impacting PvE. Maybe reduce their healing multiplier from Expertise?

[TitusOfTides]

What about burst? Making it easier to pressure healers is a dial that also makes it easier for enemies to kill each other. Would this be a problem? I suppose that depends on how long you like games to last, or how fast you like getting blown up inside of a stun.

 

I'd take the risk for the second option and find a way to bring healers in line without impacting PvE. Maybe reduce their healing multiplier from Expertise?

 

I think that's a great way to do it. It would only affect them where its necessary, PvP.

[Divona]

Yay a balance taking pvp as example. Thats the way to go....

 

In reality Bioware made a mess not bringing all to 10% crit level and now we see 2 classes are way ahed of others. The most logical step would be to make all equal and then see if healing specs need adjustments.

[AlrikFassbauer]

The real problem right now

- at least in PvP -

isn't PT & Sniper -

- it is PT & Sorcs ...

[Adaliaya]

How about middle ground, bring everyone to 20%?

[Hiro_Wildfire]

How about middle ground, bring everyone to 20%?

 

it'd be a good step in the right direction, then if BW takes a moment to re-assess the new damage figure's? We will see if thats done it and helped re-calibrate damage levels's to an acceptable level for all classes.

[Iserahn]

the classes that goy nerfed to 10% surge like maras have huge rotational autocrits, meaning that they can crit for up to 250% dmg with the current gear

 

classes like assassin that maintain 30% surge do not have autocriting abilities

 

so you are asking why 250% isn't 270% ?

 

my guess is that it would be too strong, especially when higher Ilevel gear is introduced in the next patches, that could easily mean up to 300% crits, aka killing people in a couple of gcds

Edited November 30, 2015 by Iserahn

[TitusOfTides]

the classes that goy nerfed to 10% surge like maras have huge rotational autocrits, meaning that they can crit for up to 250% dmg with the current gear

 

classes like assassin that maintain 30% surge do not have autocriting abilities

 

so you are asking why 250% isn't 270% ?

 

my guess is that it would be too strong, especially when higher Ilevel gear is introduced in the next patches, that could easily mean up to 300% crits, aka killing people in a couple of gcds

 

This makes a lot of sense.

[Fallerup]

I guess OP got his wish. *sad face* Now both my classes are nerfed. What is the point of nerfing firestorm? it's a tanking offensive ability, who cares if it hits somewhat hard? we are suppose to use it to hold aggro for god sake. curse who ever whined about it being OP.

 

If these changes are not rolled back in the next patch after this, I will not be renewing my sub. I refuse to play melee classes! I just geared up my sniper too. sad times

[Mai-Hon]

So PVE players suffer again because of more PVP whining about imaginary game balance. Please give PVP players their own rule set that can be tweaked up, down, sideways, into non-existence, whatever without affecting the PVE game!

[jauvtus]

it's a tanking offensive ability,

 

Many (almost all good) PT run in tank spec but with dps gear, you know, Firestorm hits harder then. I'm not justifying the nerf, just saying

[Salakast]

So PVE players suffer again because of more PVP whining about imaginary game balance. Please give PVP players their own rule set that can be tweaked up, down, sideways, into non-existence, whatever without affecting the PVE game!

 

No, this is completely wrong. One look at Dummy Parse data and a review of BW's stated model: Melee Sustained > Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained > Ranged Burst, should show you that this is a simple PvE Single-Target Balance. It looks like the remaining outliers are Arsenal Merc and (slightly) Sorc Lightning, so expect them to cop it next.

 

Unfortunately, the way they've chosen to do this is hugely detrimental to PvP. By neutering burst they have just made already OP Sorc Healers into demigods. Now if Sorc Healers ever get a significant nerf, that you can definitely pin on PvP whining:rak_03:

[Kaytrine]

No, this is completely wrong. One look at Dummy Parse data and a review of BW's stated model: Melee Sustained > Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained > Ranged Burst, should show you that this is a simple PvE Single-Target Balance. It looks like the remaining outliers are Arsenal Merc and (slightly) Sorc Lightning, so expect them to cop it next.

 

Unfortunately, the way they've chosen to do this is hugely detrimental to PvP. By neutering burst they have just made already Demigod Sorc Healers into Gods. Now if Sorc Healers ever get a significant nerf, that you can definitely pin on PvP whining:rak_03:

 

Fixed it for you.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Kaytrine

[rothfussian]

I love that no one thinks an inbetween is an option. They dropped it by 20%, and now they are useless in PvE. Jesus bioware, do you understand how to balance something? Have the devs ever played the game? How did "they have to much burst" turn into "welp, someone said they died to fast, better make sure we don't really fix the issue AND break them in all PvE content."

 

Because as it is, when they nerf sorc healing the burst is going to be just as big of an issue because they reduced the heals, and the burst was already insane from the start, so that reduction is simply going to be worthless so it's still going to be an issue. Instead of changing the way those huge hits act in PvP, thus solving the problem they just reduced it and in the process made sustained DPS in PvE virtually impossible to do consistently.

 

Or here is a thought, how about instead of nerfing everything, you just fix the classes that aren't working properly.

[DNGDangerous]

Or here is a thought, how about instead of nerfing everything, you just fix the classes that aren't working properly.

 

No offence to you, but this idea is wrong in so many ways!

 

If they did what you did, the game would be fixed. If they fixed it, all the money they use to host this forum would go to waste! Eric Musco would be out of a job. Devs that focus on class balance, they would be out of a job... Popcorn manufacturers would go bankrupt. Then the worlds economy would go bankrupt... World peace would happen, and then war profiteers would go bankrupt...

 

You people think they are doing a bad job on balancing, but honestly, bioware and EA are the heroes of the economic world! They purposelly create bad patches in order to keep corporations making money!

 

Dont believe me? Heck lets go back a couple weeks... Remember what they did with companions? They swung the nerf bat like a thermo nuclear warhead. And fixed it within a shot period of time right? They probably already had both patches made before 4.0 even launched! They probably had side bets on how many forum posts would be made, and bags of popcorn just to sit back and watch hell unleash!

 

Lets go back even more... Look at all the class balanacing patches since 3.0... Sorcs still outperforming.... Well at least healing sorcs. This is how many years later? Eric Musco definatelly reads the forums... Its his job! I am pretty sure the PVP forums are his favorite to read! Probably gets a good laugh from us every day!

 

And honestly- hes doing a good job! Its all about job security! Him and his team know exactly how to keep those dollars rollin in!

[Fallerup]

Many (almost all good) PT run in tank spec but with dps gear, you know, Firestorm hits harder then. I'm not justifying the nerf, just saying

 

they should have been playing AP, which was also nerfed because everyone and their mothers were whining about it. I haven't played tank spec in dps gear since we were allowed to be a hybrid spec, back then I played Shinarika's assassin spec

[SHLOOMPA]

As stated in various threads, many passive abilities which used to buff critical damage by 30% have been decreased to 10% to compensate for the changes 4.0 made to how critical damage is calculated.

 

The only two classes I know of that obtain their 30% critical damage passive are AP PTs and MM Snipers - both of which are outclassing all other specs in ST DPS.

 

What I fail to realize is why do these classes have the higher buff? It is directly contributing to their chart topping DPS. If these were adjusted to 10% their damage would still be high, but it is my belief that this would bring the DPS classes to a level playing field (boosting us all back to 30% would be cool too).

 

buffing the dps would have been great. PVP is always destroying PVE. It was good to have a class capable of the damage output needed for HM and NIM operations and now it has just been nerfed to the ground again. Yet another reason that pve and pvp should be completely separate in terms of bonuses and build. There are still classes that parse 7k on a dummy so obviously there is no balance and never will be in this game unless you separate pve and pvp entirely.