TUXs Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 What even is the point of trying to "force" exposure to PVP on people in the first place? Encourage...not force. You're not forced to PvP at all. They offer a companion reward for doing it...that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I talked to Matt about Alliance, Companions, and your questions specifically related to accessing future Companions. Between this thread and the ones linked in the OP, I think there are two main questions you are looking to have addressed. Will I need to complete currently available alert Missions to unlock future alert Missions? As of right now, the answer to this is yes. Inside of each Alliance Companion type (Military, Underworld, etc), the Companion recruitment alerts are very much looked at like a Mission chain. Generally, you must complete one alert Mission before you will receive the next. Note that you only need to complete the Mission itself, not necessarily recruit any Companion associated with it. There may be exceptions to this later on, for story reasons, but this is the general rule right now. It is worth noting that this is something the dev team is talking about, so it could change, but this is how it works right now. Will I need to PvP for future Companions / Will I need to unlock Companions like Pierce to access future Companions? The answer to your question is maybe. We are open to the possibility of future PvP related Companions/Mission content which could require the completion of M1-4X/Pierce's Missions. That said, we would not likely have PvE related content require it. I think that should answer the primary questions that you have! Let me know if anything requires further clarification. Thanks! -eric Eric, I have rarely said much about decisions BW has made but this is a stupid design. If our choices matter, then we should have the ability to refuse one (maybe the main ones okay that's different) but making a person go through the mission just to get an alert is wrong. Then gating companions behind pvp when people hate pvp yet you want them to do this when it is not their game style. There are people in the pvp community that are sweet and helpful (such as my boyfriend ) but there are more lately that want to be rude, hateful, spewing of foul language that some people, such as my best friend, that truly abhors pvp, and she has tried it, yet you gate these missions behind this instead of giving an option to reject that companion. I would suggest you rethink this and change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) No he's not... I can show you 3 troopers of my own that can go pick him up without setting one foot in a WZ after I get the quest (and no none of them are Valor 40 either)... So how is that "PvP Exclusive"? But just in case you don't know what exclusive means... not shared : available to only one person or group Hence, NOT EXCLUSIVE to PvP... Right....your point? He is an existing companion for Troopers, we all knew that I assumed. Did you just find this out or are you confused by my lack of explaining the obvious? Edited November 13, 2015 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Or could it be that I enjoy the idea that each companion is obtained in different ways? I don't care if people experience PvP or not, but if they choose to try it, then I'd like them to have a positive mindset and feel they got something out of the experience rather than pouting for a few hours. They could have made every companion have a Talos type quest where you run around a planet for 10 minutes clicking blue stuff and killing some trash mobs. They chose to have some companions that reward participation in other aspects of the game such as PvP, world bosses, crafting, and world events. SWTOR is a very diverse game and I'm glad BW played to this strength in obtaining companions, even if it means I may have to do something I don't enjoy down the line to get a companion. Then where is the mission for a companion that you have to roleplay to get one. I don't see that mission anywhere? .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'd be fine with the requirement being lowered a bit but I still think it should remain a have to pvp or don't get the companion. It promotes more PvP pops for the pvp base and some people who may not like the idea of pvp have the chance to change their mind. I can understand frustrations but I don't understand why some people want to decrease the amount of group content potential. Same for the Qyzen quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) TUX, 5 is too high, I'd tie it into the unranked Daily, which I think is 4 matches or 2 wins? And that's the beauty of it, tying it into another PvP mission, like that Daily, from which you can get rewards. If you've already done the daily, tough luck, come back tomorrow. And, it's not as if that many PvEers would've completed the daily on the same day that gained the alliance mission. I think 4 WZs is as much exposure as anyone could possibly need to know whether or not they like it; plus they'll be at 65, with NO expertise whatever (other than that crummy amount provided by the broken bolster). Edited November 13, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Then where is the mission for a companion that you have to roleplay to get one. I don't see that mission anywhere? .... I'd be all for it, but there isn't really a measurable gameplay aspect to use as a basis. How do you gauge someone participating in an RP event automatically in game? You could have something based around creating two different appearance tab options or spend X amount of time in a cantina. But neither of those really encourages participating in RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 What even is the point of trying to "force" exposure to PVP on people in the first place? Those who have any interest in it in the first place will try it out eventually, those who don't will either never do the quest or are the people who end up AFK in warzones because BW thought it was a good idea to make the alerts a quest chain (which is probably one of the biggest design flaws in KotFE and the game in general right now and I am utterly unable to understand why anyone thinks not being able to skip companions you think suck is a good idea. How many people complained about having to take or keep companions they hated in the vanilla story? It's that all over again, just a hundred times more tedious). But regardless, the simplest solution to this issue and every other issue with the alliance system is to give the ability to permanently refuse every companion, and right at the beginning of their quest. Helps rp, helps alts, lets people skip what they don't want to do. I'm not sure why don't just ask all for that instead of arguing about whether or not all the dumb quests already implemented should be changed or not. Have they ever done that before, anyway? The point is that BioWare is hoping that a flood of new players will come to the game this year because of all of the hype surrounding the movie. Because of that, and because they have the start a level 60 option, they wanted to use the alliance system to introduce those new players to the different parts of the game like PvP, world bosses, crafting/gathering, in game events, and etc. Unfortunately, by doing so they made a system that took things too far by requiring 20 warzones, or 800 level 8 mats. or hours spent either hunting or trying to get world boss groups formed. In addition, they made the system alt unfriendly because they set up the system to require these activities on all characters held by a player instead of making these "introduction to game play" unlocks tied to legacy. The bottom line is that people are upset because of the choices that BioWare made when designing these unlocks and they are trying to tell BioWare that "choices matter" and that they are unhappy with the choices the were made to gate the content in the way that they did. There may be more to it than that, but I think that you get the idea of what I think on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWookiee Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I personally enjoy PvPing so this quest is no big deal to me. Just means doing about 4 or 5 days of dailies to complete it. I don't have any animosity toward the players that don't want to PvP, even when I get grouped up with 2 or 3 that just node camp or don't participate and our team gets rolled in the warzone. That being said, I think these companion missions requiring PvP are stupid. Why? Because it gates content for future companions according to Eric Musco's post a couple of days ago. This is what is "Forcing" PvP upon people who simply do not want to do it so they can access the future companion quests. These missions need to be revised for a reject at the start so they won't gate the future companion quests or a PvE option needs to be added and get these guys out of PvP and ruining half the warzones I play in. (If the PvE option is added then I would also think adding a PvP option to the other companions would be needed as well.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 We're in nearly complete agreement. I think 5 is too low...6(3)? Compromise at 6? And I agree...skip it, no M1-4X, but the next alert progresses normally. What are we bartering now? I don't suppose 1 match either way would make much difference to either side at this point. But yeah I am actually tired of arguing with people (I don't mean you ) over PvP for companions I am now just trying to come up with reasonable solutions that would suit both sides, its just a pity that 40 pages in any solutions people come up with are just buried under flame wars over PvP vs PvE differing philosophies, I doubt the Devs will get this far in to see any solutions from members of the forums that they might not have come up with themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Then where is the mission for a companion that you have to roleplay to get one. I don't see that mission anywhere? .... Technically that's every mission where you choose a conversation option. We don't get to type in our own responses, it's always a character perspective response. We're always playing a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Right....your point? He is an existing companion for Troopers, we all knew that I assumed. Did you just find this out or are you confused by my lack of explaining the obvious? The point is he is NOT exclusive. Hence has Jack and **** to do with PvP.... It's not a PvP only reward. It has no extra bearing on PvP outside WZs (no extra expertise). It has NOTHING to do with PvP except some lame *** non trooper (or non warrior in Pierce's case) requirement. There is no reason story or otherwise to have any previous companion gated behind PvP. Honestly there is no reason ANY alliance quest story wise, side quest wise, or otherwise should be gated behind PvP. We are supposed to be working together to fight the Eternal Empire, not fighting each other... So BW can't even get their damned storytelling straight... Now if this was a truly exclusive PvP companion, then they could be told to go suck it up. You can't sit here and scream PvP exclusive when it's not. It's not a valid reason because it's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I personally enjoy PvPing so this quest is no big deal to me. Just means doing about 4 or 5 days of dailies to complete it. I don't have any animosity toward the players that don't want to PvP, even when I get grouped up with 2 or 3 that just node camp or don't participate and our team gets rolled in the warzone. That being said, I think these companion missions requiring PvP are stupid. Why? Because it gates content for future companions according to Eric Musco's post a couple of days ago. This is what is "Forcing" PvP upon people who simply do not want to do it so they can access the future companion quests. These missions need to be revised for a reject at the start so they won't gate the future companion quests or a PvE option needs to be added and get these guys out of PvP and ruining half the warzones I play in. (If the PvE option is added then I would also think adding a PvP option to the other companions would be needed as well.). This would be a good idea. They actually should allow you to reject any companion (minus the main ones (though I still would love to reject Lana, as she never agrees with my smuggler decisions and we always end up aguing) if you truly do not want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Technically that's every mission where you choose a conversation option. We don't get to type in our own responses, it's always a character perspective response. We're always playing a role. Not my version of roleplay. Roleplaying is being creative, not using canned responses. And no, I don't use the game for my roleplaying on my characters. I create my own using bits and pieces. I don't even claim that my sorcerer is on the dark council as that is part of the game writing and every single sorcerer. That is not the type of roleplaying I nor my guild does. We are more creative than that. Edited November 13, 2015 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRieh Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Why is it bad? Because you WANT them? You've totally missed the point. I DON'T want them, either of the two, but I certainly may want someone next down the the alert chain. As is - I don't have a choice NOT to have THEM. No one has. They are totally unrelated (like give me two companions that have less in common than Qyzen and Lokin?.. Oh well, Corso & Dark!Jaessa might do as an example), but one HAS to complete the former in order even to see the alert for the latter. And one has to complete both of them in order to see what comes next. Also, I assume the 'roleplay' is kinda new to you. Feel free to google. Edited November 13, 2015 by NRieh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The point is he is NOT exclusive. Hence has Jack and **** to do with PvP.... It's not a PvP only reward. Now if this was a truly exclusive PvP companion, then they could be told to go suck it up. You can't sit here and scream PvP exclusive when it's not. It's not a valid reason because it's not true. I assumed most people didn't need it completely spelled out for...but since you clearly don't seem to be able to comprehend it, I'll clarify for you... Unless you are a Trooper, there's no way other than PvP to get him. He's an EXCLUSIVE to PvP unless you are a trooper. Clearer? Still confused? Would you like me to draw you a picture to go with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Or could it be that I enjoy the idea that each companion is obtained in different ways? I don't care if people experience PvP or not, but if they choose to try it, then I'd like them to have a positive mindset and feel they got something out of the experience rather than pouting for a few hours. They could have made every companion have a Talos type quest where you run around a planet for 10 minutes clicking blue stuff and killing some trash mobs. They chose to have some companions that reward participation in other aspects of the game such as PvP, world bosses, crafting, and world events. SWTOR is a very diverse game and I'm glad BW played to this strength in obtaining companions, even if it means I may have to do something I don't enjoy down the line to get a companion. yeah, I'm calling shenanigans on this. You're in favor of this because 'diversity in gaming.' yeah, I don't believe a single word of that. I'll also note that literally 99% of the players who've never PVPed before will end up hating PVP after being railroaded into doing at least 10-20 WZs to get a companion. Let's be honest, okay? This is a blatant ridiculous attempt by BW to get people into WZs because...the vast majority of this player base does not like to PVP and the PVP base is suffering as a result. But, rather than 'fix' the PVP issues in this game, they'd rather force the PVE majority to suffer through a bunch of stupid WZs that they don't want to do in the first place...or they'd already be doing them...in order to point to 'increased WZ participation!' Because that's what this comes down to. It's about funneling the people who don't want to pvp...into pvp because reasons and therefore, comma. It's stupid, it's short-sighted, it's self-defeating and it's gonna result in a lot more people hating PVP and PVPers in this game. You know, WoW had this problem for a lot of years. They tied all kinds of stuff to their PVP to get people into it and all it did was piss people off. Now, finally, they've separated PVP and PVE and are working on revamping the PVP experience to make it better for everyone. No more PVP gear, everyone comes with a set amount of a PVP stat and long-term PVPers get cosmetic rewards instead. It's crazy that I have to look at 'WoW' and see them doing a better job, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Not my version of roleplay. Roleplaying is being creative, not using canned responses. And no, I don't use the game for my roleplaying on my characters. I create my own using bits and pieces. I don't even claim that my sorcerer is on the dark council as that is part of the game writing and every single sorcerer. That is not the type of roleplaying I nor my guild does. We are more creative than that. And so how do you propose BioWare puts that in the game? Does you and your guild want to be the moderators to determine if someone should get a companion or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'll also note that literally 99% of the players who've never PVPed before will end up hating PVP after being railroaded into doing at least 10-20 WZs to get a companion. Did you know that literally 82.9% of all statistics are made up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) I assumed most people didn't need it completely spelled out for...but since you clearly don't seem to be able to comprehend it, I'll clarify for you... Unless you are a Trooper, there's no way other than PvP to get him. He's an EXCLUSIVE to PvP unless you are a trooper. Clearer? Still confused? Would you like me to draw you a picture to go with it? I think you miss the idea here.... Exclusive does not mean 2 groups, it means 1. Troopers are spared the PvP requirement. That does not make it exclusive. When you add unless (except. but, etc), it by DEFINITION EXCLUDES something from being exclusive, because it includes another way to get it. Did you fail basic English? EDIT: To clarify, now you can say that for non troopers (warriors) it has a PvP requirement at this point. But it is in no way EXCLUSIVE to PvP... Edited November 13, 2015 by Psychopyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) And so how do you propose BioWare puts that in the game? Does you and your guild want to be the moderators to determine if someone should get a companion or not? Well if they going to make people pvp for a companion they don't want then why not or is it only fair to do that for pvp and make people pvp for a companion? Fair is fair after all. All gameplays should be considered if we can't reject a companion. And sure I will moderate the roleplaying. And on that note have a good day (as I will not continue to argue with you) Edited November 13, 2015 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Did you know that literally 82.9% of all statistics are made up? Did you know that the reality is bluntly obvious, what with the constant complaining and crying from the PVPers due to long queue times for WZs? Literally, no one in this game PVPs except for a handful of dedicated PVPers on every server. No one else cares, no one else does it, it's a side-game at best and it's avoided by most players because of the toxic PVPer crowd. No one can deny that, you only have to look at the PVP forums for proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Did you know that literally 82.9% of all statistics are made up? And I'll bet that you made that up, didn't you. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Did you know that the reality is bluntly obvious, what with the constant complaining and crying from the PVPers due to long queue times for WZs? Literally, no one in this game PVPs except for a handful of dedicated PVPers on every server. No one else cares, no one else does it, it's a side-game at best and it's avoided by most players because of the toxic PVPer crowd. No one can deny that, you only have to look at the PVP forums for proof. Anyone complaining about unranked warzone queue times is a complete moron. Pops happen in less than 5 minutes at all times of the day or night. Ranked PvP is a joke and the casual player base of this game will never make it successful. There are a TON of people participating in PvP though. Just because you aren't doesn't mean they don't exist. Someone is filling up all those warzone and arena instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Well if they going to make people pvp for a companion they don't want then why not or is it only fair to do that for pvp and make people pvp for a companion? Fair is fair afterall. The thing is, what you're doing isn't an official part of the gameplay. You're free to make pretend within the constructs of the game, but there are no actual mechanisms that directly support what you do. Maybe emotes? But again, you're talking human elements to judge, quantify, etc. It's not a mechanical operation. PVP very much is, this has been one of the core features since the launch of the game - regardless of how many people participate in it. I think you need a different analogy or complaint. Actually you don't because I'm sure it's already been made in this thread Edited November 13, 2015 by hadoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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