uzoozu Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 PvP PoV here. In 4.0 my Vanguard has been regularly beaten by Arsenal Mercs. In a straight 1vs1 i would probably edge it but in a WZ scenario Mercs are now very nasty in the right hands. @ Archangel What's the deal mate? Every thread i have read in the PvP section has you piping in with a "nerf PT" reply. If they are so easy to play then play one, if you don't like their playstyle then simply leave them alone. IMO the balance in 4.0 is not that bad, i can be beaten hands down by any class if i don't bring my "A" game, thats the way i like it, i also play all classes though Vanguard is my main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 IMO the balance in 4.0 is not that bad, i can be beaten hands down by any class if i don't bring my "A" game, thats the way i like it, i also play all classes though Vanguard is my main. You've got to be joking right? I have NEVER seen balance this far off for Mando/Mercs...EVER. Maybe I've just had crappy teams, but imo, right now, balance for the merc/mando is at an all time low...and that's saying a LOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzoozu Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 You've got to be joking right? I have NEVER seen balance this far off for Mando/Mercs...EVER. Maybe I've just had crappy teams, but imo, right now, balance for the merc/mando is at an all time low...and that's saying a LOT! We all see things differently, im not talking ranked here but when i queue with my guildies (many of them troopers) they are consistently in the top 3 DPS. But again, this is 8v8 not 4v4. We have obviously had vastly different experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 We all see things differently, im not talking ranked here but when i queue with my guildies (many of them troopers) they are consistently in the top 3 DPS. But again, this is 8v8 not 4v4. We have obviously had vastly different experiences. You think I play a commando in ranked? HA! I'm not THAT stupid And I'm talking about Commando's specifically, not the "Trooper" class. Vanguards are in a totally different category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzoozu Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) You think I play a commando in ranked? HA! I'm not THAT stupid And I'm talking about Commando's specifically, not the "Trooper" class. Vanguards are in a totally different category. I meant commando, my bad. The two i usually play with have gone from ready to throw in the towel to topping the leader-boards regularly. The only guys in my guild happier with the changes than those who play Sentinels and Guardians. (Don't know what changed for them but they give me a really hard time now) Edited October 30, 2015 by uzoozu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flintfire Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 No it doesn't AP burst is hugely higher than arsenal for any period of time you want to name. I don't know what your experience is based on but I've seen hundreds of HM boss pulls with dps meters up since 4.0 launched and no class comes close to touching AP in burst damage. Thats great and all, but this is merc vs mando, not which to use during a HM pull, and seeing that most of a PT's opening burst is negated by chaff flare, whereas PTs only have a chance to resist damage, mercs have greater opening burst. During a boss fight, yes PTs have the advantage of burst and frankly mobility in a lot of situations however this is not the class/operations forums. I have HM raided with both classes in all four dps BH specs, and in straight up burst I will be the first to agree that it does more damage atm than arsenal. But thats not what we are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 PvP PoV here. In 4.0 my Vanguard has been regularly beaten by Arsenal Mercs. In a straight 1vs1 i would probably edge it but in a WZ scenario Mercs are now very nasty in the right hands. @ Archangel What's the deal mate? Every thread i have read in the PvP section has you piping in with a "nerf PT" reply. If they are so easy to play then play one, if you don't like their playstyle then simply leave them alone. IMO the balance in 4.0 is not that bad, i can be beaten hands down by any class if i don't bring my "A" game, thats the way i like it, i also play all classes though Vanguard is my main. i will be honest, yes i find ap broken atm, and i just say it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Thats great and all, but this is merc vs mando, not which to use during a HM pull, and seeing that most of a PT's opening burst is negated by chaff flare, whereas PTs only have a chance to resist damage, mercs have greater opening burst. During a boss fight, yes PTs have the advantage of burst and frankly mobility in a lot of situations however this is not the class/operations forums. I have HM raided with both classes in all four dps BH specs, and in straight up burst I will be the first to agree that it does more damage atm than arsenal. But thats not what we are talking about. Why are you pulling up a duel scenario? That isn't what "we" are talking about, that is what "you" have somehow gone onto. Straight up vs a generic target AP has burst and sustained damage advantage which is substantially better than Arsenal especially when you throw in interference such as stuns, interrupts and movement. This translates extremely well from PVE into PVP because of the instant damage. I can't believe you're throwing me a best case scenario of AP losing 5 hits into a merc defensive and saying that's the fight decided and by extension Arsenal being a better class. The mind boggles at how far that's being stretched. Edited October 31, 2015 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) PvP PoV here. In 4.0 my Vanguard has been regularly beaten by Arsenal Mercs. In a straight 1vs1 i would probably edge it but in a WZ scnario Mercs are now very nasty in the right hands. @ Archangel What's the deal mate? Every thread i have read in the PvP section has you piping in with a "nerf PT" reply. If they are so easy to play then play one, if you don't like their playstyle then simply leave them alone. IMO the balance in 4.0 is not that bad, i can be beaten hands down by any class if i don't bring my "A" game, thats the way i like it, i also play all classes though Vanguard is my main. Yep, I clear PTs regularly in regs, even in Arenas when the teams are not imbalanced. Arsenal survivability is higher than AP PT imo. When HO ends PT is dead. New back jump ability is awesome. On average, heals are ~250k. Concealment Ops are failing too. Edited October 30, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yep, I clear PTs regularly in regs, even in Arenas when the teams are not imbalanced. Arsenal survivability is higher than AP PT imo. When HO ends PT is dead. New back jump ability is awesome. On average, heals are ~250k. Concealment Ops are failing too. You're doing something very wrong if you can't do more damage and survive longer on a pt or operative compared to a merc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 You're doing something very wrong if you can't do more damage and survive longer on a pt or operative compared to a merc... Or he just play pyrotech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) You're doing something very wrong if you can't do more damage and survive longer on a pt or operative compared to a merc... Rocket out is game changer. Chaff flair diminishes PT burst. Any distance acquired after HO is out is fatal for PT AP. Medical Probe and other heals crit regularly while PT's dcds beyond 10m are long. Concealment Operative relies on the ignorance that roll has +1.5s evasion duration. Edited October 31, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzoozu Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Rocket out is game changer. Chaff flair diminishes PT burst. Any distance acquired after HO is out is fatal for PT AP. Medical Probe and other heals crit regularly while PT's dcds beyond 10m are long. Concealment Operative relies on the ignorance that roll has +1.5s evasion duration. I totally agree, if i have already used HO and a Merc notices me i'm dead. Tbh i have to laugh at Archangels Vanguard / PT hate. There isn't a class in the game that can't beat us in a WZ if played properly. Warriors are now producing sick burst and with their DCD's they are a real hand full. Before 4.0 i would kinda agree with Archangel, but now Merc's and Marauders ( 2 classes i used to semi-ignore) can tear me a new one in seconds if i don't take them seriously. Jump on you'r PT and try a reg-WZ then come tell me they are faceroll, if you don't have one then nothing you say is valid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I totally agree, if i have already used HO and a Merc notices me i'm dead. Tbh i have to laugh at Archangels Vanguard / PT hate. There isn't a class in the game that can't beat us in a WZ if played properly. Warriors are now producing sick burst and with their DCD's they are a real hand full. Before 4.0 i would kinda agree with Archangel, but now Merc's and Marauders ( 2 classes i used to semi-ignore) can tear me a new one in seconds if i don't take them seriously. Jump on you'r PT and try a reg-WZ then come tell me they are faceroll, if you don't have one then nothing you say is valid Nah. im serious and yes my fresh new pt, not fully geared yet and 0 augments http://prntscr.com/8xdz4a Probably is niothing special but as i said fresh class, not fully geared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzoozu Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Nah. im serious and yes my fresh new pt, not fully geared yet and 0 augments http://prntscr.com/8xdz4a Probably is niothing special but as i said fresh class, not fully geared Screenshots don't mean anything unless you know what everyone else was wearing, they could all be fresh 60's. nobody hardly died from that screenie, and it only shows a few of the 16 players. So what are you basing all the "NERF" posts on? Being raped by a Van/PT on your Merc? Maybe they where leagues better than you or maybe Merc is not the class for you.... who knows. I have been beaten by every class in the game, sometimes slightly and other times totally out played. I have never once come to these boards asking for a buff / nerf to anyone. You have posted in countless threads "PT OP" even when the thread was about something else altogether. Try duelling a few Van / PT's in your guild and learn how to counter them, it would be a far more productive use of your time. Edited October 31, 2015 by uzoozu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Screenshots don't mean anything unless you know what everyone else was wearing, they could all be fresh 60's. nobody hardly died from that screenie, and it only shows a few of the 16 players. So what are you basing all the "NERF" posts on? Being raped by a Van/PT on your Merc? Maybe they where leagues better than you or maybe Merc is not the class for you.... who knows. I have been beaten by every class in the game, sometimes slightly and other times totally out played. I have never once come to these boards asking for a buff / nerf to anyone. You have posted in countless threads "PT OP" even when the thread was about something else altogether. Try duelling a few Van / PT's in your guild and learn how to counter them, it would be a far more productive use of your time. screen serves his purpose, aka, shows how ridicolous is ap py to use, and the difference in utilities and passives between pt and mercs, which is ridicolous as well, was not a nerf thread, just a " WATCH How better they are" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) AP is boring - playing from time to time. And without poсket healer they are painfull to play, especially yolo. P.S. Nerf pyro. Edited October 31, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 AP is boring - playing from time to time. And without poсket healer they are painfull to play, especially yolo. P.S. Nerf pyro. AP is boring when they have tank + heal, when there are only dps, globaliza this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 AP is boring when they have tank + heal, when there are only dps, globaliza this IDK i like to play PT rarely sometimes, but coz pyro too OP i'm playing in AP, not coz he can global. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Mb i'm mistaken with PT's pain . http://i.imgur.com/Mw1oBS8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppinswtor Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I dunno, mercs feel like FOTM right now (unless they're tunneled). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I dunno, mercs feel like FOTM right now (unless they're tunneled). You know as well as I do Hoppin - Mercs *thrive* in warzones full of newbies/baddies. Right now we have what is known in the trade as a target rich environment. I'm certainly not unhappy with mercs in regs. I'm not sure we're ever going to be particularly fun in yolos though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No, mercs just have one of few real bursty specs atm, so actually peoples think dat they are more "fun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 No, mercs just have one of few real bursty specs atm, so actually peoples think dat they are more "fun". pretty much. every minute I can more or less guarantee a ~15k instant followed by a ~20k instant, and that's usually on a target that's eaten one or two 5-6k gravs and a channel of 4.5-6k ticks...and a priming in there as well for 5-8k. quick math: (14k + [5 x 5k = 25k]= 39k) + 15k + 20k = 74k (79k with 2 gravs) outside of that, the HIBs and demo rounds are 6-10k. with a median demo right in there at 8k for me (not counting the autocrit). so yeah. roughly 74k gross single target dmg in one cycle every minute or so -- not that anyone would eat all of that dmg unless they were obtuse. that usually includes supercharger when I'm going over 20k, but I suppose you can add in another instant grav with power overrides. /random musing anyway, it is all instant or channeled...so you can do it on the move. when I played MM, I kinda marveled at how many instants you could use and how easy it was to push an instant proc simply by reestablishing cover. ranged in general has too much mobility and instants over the past two xpacs...even 2.0 added some. but that's what they wanted b/c they were getting interrupted and beaten on by melee, so that's what BW gave them. anyway, it's all pretty useless when 2 ppl are pressuring you - can't run, hide, or hunker down. but it's fun in regs when you can afford to focus down one target at a time. the spec hasn't changed. it's just that the others felt the surge nerf. it's still a class that can't deal with any kind of focus. which makes it no fun outside of mindless regs. /random musing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Yea, mobility buffs, i felt it in Pyro, just almost can't stack players to AOE - this bubles, jumps, 2 CC-breakers, roots-slows purges e.t.c.But pyro have so good animations, mmm burn em! Mercs in better place coz other get nerfed, yes. Edited December 24, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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