Let’s Chat – Cartel Market and You: New pack design (Underworld Alliance)

Nuffmeister · October 31, 2015

Congratulations on your new job! I hope it works out for you and you enjoy it.

Though i'm very comfortable where I am now I can certainly empathize with you on knowing the value of CC's. I can remember some rough times when I was young and queuing up for free bread from a local ecumenical pantry just for something to eat for the week when times were tough. (Not trying to out do you there, just saying I can certainly relate)

I've also been buying packs and crates since they launched, with pretty mixed results. I have to say in the whole time i've been doing them, the last sale on every pack released was my best. I bought 7 packs one day and got Tulak Hord's Helmet, Chestplate and Xoxaan's Chestplate as well in just those. Normally my luck is quite shocking lol.

With just my experience of playing KOTFE, and the ridiculous amount of companion gifts I get from general questing and rewards, the one item and companion gift seems pretty light on value. I did get an Akk Dog pet , a Womp Rat mount and the new Jukebox which I was very pleased with in the 3 hypercrates I bought, but, to me, the 2 items per pack is kind of meh.

Time will tell on what they do with the feedback, both the pro's and cons, so it will be interesting to see.

Thanks for the reply and all the best in your new job.

As for the referral link in a sig, as I said i'm very comfortable where I am now so am happy to leave it out.

AdrianDmitruk · October 31, 2015

I'm conflicted with the Cartel Market changes.

The old hypercrates were a pain for inventory management. So much clutter. Non-specific XP boosts didn't stack, and since they were bound, you couldn't merge them to save space. So much crap to sift through to find the good stuff. I have about a dozen toons on BC, each with 3-5 cargo bays worth of crap from the old hypercrates. The other six toons I have on BC were waiting in the wings to stockpile more crap while I waited for the expansion to drop/the movie to release so I could sell more of that crap on GTN.

Now inventory management is so much easier, but I gotta agree with those who say cartel market packs should have 4 items: the random item and companion gift as it is now, plus a random jawa junk OR cartel market cert as the third item, and a reputation item as the fourth. Both of those suggestions stack in inventory so they were never the source of the earlier inventory management pains, and they would go a long way towards restoring CM value to what it should be.

I also note that the introduction of the gold packs and such killed the GTN value of a lot of what I was stockpiling to sell, but such is the risk I took for holding it for so long, so that's on me and not Bioware.

Edited October 31, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

Wulfbur · October 31, 2015

for me the specific XP boosts just are storage wastes - regular overall XP boosts are better and cover it all since you can only have one boost active at a time. At least make them salable to vendors as they are worthless on the GTN and I wind up destroying them.

The companion gifts were more valuable to me

The Jawa Junk is the most valuable for crafters now especially with the required components and please add the FP hard mode items to the traders. I do not want FORCED grouping to craft. I craft to support adventures.

I Bought a lot of packs just for gifts, mounts and jawa trader items.

Armor came in secondary.

EnkiduNineEight · October 31, 2015

I would also suggest that if you make changes to the crates because you recognize what you did was not desirable and was a lesser value to the people who purchased crates that you datamine your customers and provide some sort of compensation to those who did spend significant real world currency in order to purchase a substandard experience.

For you, CC's are essentially 'free'. Their cost to produce is significantly low. So returning CC's to customer who have been affected by your poor business decisions is something that would be a GOOD business decision and generate good will.

While you are at it, since Treek is now significantly changed and is decidedly not the companion people spent real workld currency to obtain and unlock globally for their characters you need to refund that as well. Testing is showing Treek is actually worse than the other companions now.

Straiga · October 31, 2015

I'm going to disagree with a vast majority of you about these packs.

If I am forced to essentially gamble on a pack, I enjoy choosing the gold packs. At least I can ensure a super rare, full armor set. Why would I want to pay 5,500 cartel coins for a hyper pack, and only get bits and pieces of an armor set? I've never understood the idea.

However, I still do not like the idea of packs and the randomness of them. Every armor set, every mount, weapon, etc., on the cartel market should be direct buy. I understand why it isnt.. the more we want a certain set, the more money we'll shell out for 50 packs in a usually vain attempt at getting a complete set of the armor we desire.

I love the idea of the gold packs more than the hypercrates.. but I still don't like the randomness.

rickzenz · October 31, 2015

Your joking Right??? If I was to tell you what we all really think of what YOU did to the Cartel Market I would be BANNED for Life. The fact is SWTOR is consumed by greed and think we are all fcking dumba**es their should not even be a question of what we think of the new pack design YOU GUY! already know what kind of a joke they are! I mean come on a little commonsense would have been nice before you release this update as a whole. So thanks for not giving a F*ck about the people who are putting their money into this game so you guy can have a paycheck at the end of the week. WE all thank you but next time please put a little lube on it before giving it to us.

Wallet is closed and I would hope more player would close their wallets as well it will be the only way they will fix what they have done.

SithEmpress · November 1, 2015

I don't like that you remove more items from the pack and then label it quality over quantity, while lowering our odds of getting golds even further. As it stands I will not be buying new pack unless the price/rates is changed. The pack I bought the most of was those that gave out all the items and a guaranteed decoration. Why I actual bought these packs was because I knew my odd of getting either a decoration or item I liked was pretty fair. The question you should have asked is why would we want to buy the new pack at the same price but get less of a chance to get rare gold items plus less items. As for you quality/quantity argument I don't see a difference with these new pack. I see less of a chance to get a gold item as you point out, which we known most often are the cool items. So why would I buy them?

I think you get more sale by giving people a good chance at items they want while keeping prices cheap. I was much more likely to buy outfit and unlock them back when they rang 60-260 over the new prices. This is why candy bars and pop do so well because most people can buy them without breaking the budget.

PS I also don't like that a companion even a non-combat/crafting one was add to a pack. At least make it a directed buy object, which I still don't like.

Edited November 1, 2015 by SithEmpress

Icykill_ · November 1, 2015

It was point out to me that I should have posted the below post in this thread and not the other... So sorry for the double post Toby

The 24 pack hyper crates are now the biggest waste of money... You get nothing good in them... LoL, Companion gifts... I already have way too many from crew skills... I certainly don't want to pay real money for them... Get rid of companion gifts in the crates and give us credit bonuses or something...

Plus the quality of stuff that drops is rubbish to say the least... All you have to do is go to the GTN to see all the crap that drops so much... You can tell from the prices that there is way too much, that no one wants it and is so easy to get... Why would I spend money to buy crates when I can buy a whole set of that junk with 20000 credits...

The drop rate is terrible... If you expect people to buy hyper crates without guaranteeing atleast 1-3 gold quality drops, then you must be dreaming... I for one will not be buying anymore cartel coins... That's about $50-100 a month you won't get from me...

Seeing as how the cartel market is your cash cow... I would think you wouldn't want to piss off your customers... The cows going dry or giving sower milk... You need to rethink this adventure or you'll start losing money

Edit: and Toby if you go in and look at my cartel coin purchases you'll see I havent purchased any since you announced the changes... I was waiting to see before buying my normal $100 worth... If you fix the crates I will start buying again... But not if they stay in their current state

obbigttam · November 1, 2015

I've spent more than my wife's been happy with on packs & crates since launch day, and on direct CM purchases too. I admit to being a bit of a masochist (am married after all) and my RNG results with packs & crates in all this time has only enhanced that perception lol. I also admit to being one who rushes in at times before the brain gets into gear, such as purchasing CC's intending to buy the new crate before reading the new crate loot system. I've also been an early jumper on every Windows system since 3.11 expecting good results (no BSOD) so don't judge the CC purchase too harshly. After seeing the post on the new crate and that it was intended, not a bug, I'm at least happy to say the CC's are still sitting there and unlikely to be spent on a pack or crate anytime soon.

Since launch my luck has been rubbish but at least it was fun rubbish, scrolling through the contents of each pack hoping for the score (the scroll getting slower the less packs left in the crate lol). The idea that I won't even get to scroll anymore really takes all the fun out of it, seeing instantly that I got stuff I don't want is like buying a block of chocolate & just eating the wrapper, throwing the chocolate away. The so-called "junk items" were my gold lol, and since they are gone there's no reason to spend the money. Sure the home life will be better, less arguments with my wife and all, but part of my gaming goodness & escape from reality is gone. Please though with any future adjustment treat any boost items other than generics like drugs - "Just say NO"! And like a few others here, thanks for giving us the chance to have a say on the subject, much appreciated.

Lithonion · November 2, 2015

I would like to thanks the DEVS that thought of this and actually got it to live. I mean the money my wife and I will save not having to buy cartel coins for these new packs will be huge. Not to mention when we ran out of cartel coins and would spend our in game creds on the GTN trying to get that one special item we wanted. We are talking about maybe buying a new car, or taking a cruise due to the savings. I do want to apologize to any sellers on the GTN as we have only purchased two of the new packs and stopped there. I am aware that you are now unable to feed your crew due to lost revenue but until you have merchandise people want to buy afraid you might have to raid camps on Yavin for food!

SuperGrunt · November 2, 2015

I normally don't buy any of the Cartel gambling packages, and I also think that it was a great idea to NOT include any crafting materials in the new packages. I however find the idea of including the rank 5 companion gifts insulting, even worse was the fact that it wasn't only purple quality. I was also upset that I only received one item of value, and then those items were almost all of bronze rarity rating. I would not be quite so upset about it if the price of the packages was about half of the price of previous cheap packages.

jankiel · November 2, 2015

I'll be blunt: The new packs suck gammorean balls . Not only the drop rates feel bad(damn my luck) but the the amount of items in them don't feel worth the price. I liked how in earlier packs we could get color crystals, credit booms AND some great armor.

I can see from the market on my server that these packs aren't popular, further more armors from them are much harder to get of the GTN. The old design was good, why the hell did you change it? And for something much worse?

Biggest insult is that you can now get a 100% drop of crap items of little to no worth. Earlier you could at least get something.

Not buying these new packs at all. I'll stick with direct purchases of the CM.

Edited November 2, 2015 by jankiel

EnkiduNineEight · November 3, 2015

I will say I enjoyed getting armour as parts of packs only, not as single pieces. But this did not outweight the complete lack of value felt because everything else was removed. The bonus experience items are trash considering you've basically made it possible to level to max level in @ 10 hours or so, so removing them was likely a good idea, but removing certs, Jawa stuff, etc, removed much of the filler that gave the packs extended value.

Ramp up drop rate of Gold & Silver, diminish rate of bronxe, add back in certs, jawa junk, etc. And since they are going to cost so much and continue to be macro instead of micro trasactions, consider an internal moratorium on just repainting existing assets.

Karyx · November 3, 2015

I have to say, I really dislike the structure of the new packs. Opening a pack only to get one item and one companion gift (that the game now throws at you from every direction) is severely disappointing.

I just opened a hypercrate and didn't get a single gold item. It was a total and complete waste of money. How can you allow that to happen? If you buy a hypercrate you should be guaranteed at least one gold item. You had the right idea before with the inclusion of the platinum pack. And then you took it away. Combined with the fact that packs now only give you one item instead of the two they previously gave means it's much harder to find the gold items you're looking for. This is reflected in the prices for these gold items on the GTN. In previous packs, a highly desired chestpiece, for example, would probably bring in 1-2 million credits on the GTN. With this pack, the Sith Recluse chest is selling on Jedi Covenant for 4-5 million. This is not becase it's the most desired armor, it's because it's so hard to get. Increase the drop rate of gold items. The market is already flooded with bronze, we don't need anymore.

I'll also echo what everyone else said: bring back certificates and jawa junk. They at least gave you a little bit of value for the pack.

oofalong · November 3, 2015

Hi Toby,

Thanks for soliciting feedback. I purchased 5 Hypercrates of the latest shipment, and was generally disappointed. (I kept trying to find that Akk Dog or I would have stopped at 2.) I appreciate your follow-up and explanation here, but I was disappointed to only receive 1 item per pack. I like to collect the pack-specific items so now with only one item per pack and fewer items all around it feels underwhelming.

I am glad you removed the XP boosts; at this point they are excessive, especially the exploration, class mission, space, etc versions.

The gifts seemed a little underwhelming. That is, getting a lot of lvl 5 blue gifts at this point doesn't do much to help level companions up to influence 50. In other words, I think the split of lvl 5 to lvl 6 gifts needs to be adjusted to be more favorable to the higher tier ones.

I liked the reputation grind previously found as well, and was sad to see it go. Maybe instead of a new reputation every 4 packs there should be a reputation every 6 months or year. Thus, more people could reach the higher tiers.

Finally, the removal of the Jawa Scarps/Junk was disappointing. There used to be some value in opening another pack (or hypercrate), but now with only one chance to get at a unique item and more unuseful gifts it feels like a let down. I recognize that I still bought 5 hypercrates, but given the current changes I'm thinking I'll be buying 1 (at most) going forward as there really isn't that much benefit.

Cheers,

oof

Heromofo · November 3, 2015

Just see here bud ive spent over 5000 dollars on this game and the new system turned me off.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=836935

Ps let us sell all exp boosts got stacks of them useless things.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Heromofo

AnAnonymousGuy · November 4, 2015

Question for admins: Will any changes you make to cartel packs affect hypercrates/packs already in the game? I'm guessing they will, but I just want to make sure.

VelRathis · November 4, 2015

There are a number of issues with the CM design of gamble packs, they have been amplified with the current set. I usually dont buy packs on initial release, generally I go to the GTN first. This has been a slow conversion over drop rates coupled with massive cockup (sorry working as intended) related to the Casino Packs.

You actually won me back with the platinum pack additions for the first time I had a reasonable chance of getting the super rare armor or mount I wanted from a hypercrate.

The new packs are decidedly less bang for buck and have completely switched me off of buying them. Im not sure how your financial cost model dynamic works but Id prefer a system where:

a) Packs contain 3 items: 1 decoration, 1 pet/mount/weapon/armor & 1 Jawajunk/rep item/cm cert

b) Bring back platinum packs in hypercrates

c) Bring back rep vendors for packs and make all rare and above items available on that vendor for the current pack at set rep levels and CM Certs/credits costs

Aegirson · November 4, 2015

As a big buyer... damn guys, I hate you sometimes

First of all and it has been said, 30 x 2 items = 60 items, 24 x 6 items = 144 items.

YES, sme of the stuff in the former packs (space, discovery, class boost, etc.) was useless but Jawa stuff was nice and getting a couple of items is far better than ggeting the impression of being screwed by the system.

So, in a nutshell,

- Hypercrates with 30 or 24 packs, anything you want but with something in it!

- When you are on the same account, ability to send the stuff to your OWN account before the damn timer (even if it is useful to fight fraud)

- Make decoration pack but not "one item pack", get a model like 3 bronze stuff, one silver and one chance for a gold (which who would a second silver if not lucky).

- We have bank filled (and the word is weak...) with stuff we can't sell. Help us and help your servers, let us sell it for cash or gems or points. I hate to see 60 crate of serie 614 in my bank and no other than destroying them!!! Damn I paid good money for it, let me at least get something out of it.

- Have a rewarding system for regular customers, something that makes you feel appreciated... I can understand you don't want to drop 224 armor because some guys spent a lot in the cartel coins but what is the cost for you if you let the guy buy a couple of mounts, pets or some decorations items, some that are not available anymore maybe...

That was 2 cents

oofalong · November 4, 2015

I completely agree with much of what you said, but I wanted to comment specifically on this idea.

Previously we had a rep grind which offered somewhat exclusive rewards. And, I felt the cartel market certificate system was good (even though most of the rewards were lackluster). I'm still sitting on a few hundred of the certificates, but there is nothing compelling to buy. I'd like to see some type of benefit/recognition for the big spenders - and more cosmetic stuff seems the safest / simplest approach.

Ferretfur · November 5, 2015

This is the first pack in a the last couple of years where I have NOT purchased a Hypercrate, or any crates at all. So you can say I am definitely LESS likely to purchase packs now.

With the new design they are not value for money. You are getting much less in the Hypercrate and it still costs the same amount of cartel coins, this is just not right. If they cost less, maybe 3.5k or 4k cartel coins (not the same 5.4k), then they may have been worth the effort.

Personally I liked getting a couple of rare items and some fluff in each pack. I do think it was wrong for Jawa junk, companion gifts and the like to count as some of the rares, but I did certainly find the old crates gave more bang for your buck.

What I'd like to see, is either the cost reduced or some change to they way the crates work. For the cost to remain the same I'd say you'd need two armour pieces (with one silver or above), one mount, weapon, decoration or regen item, and then a couple of extra bits taken from companion gifts, Jawa junk, Cartel certificates, xp and rep items.

As has been said above, being able to actually sell cartel items to vendors would be nice for when they are so common as to be otherwise worthless.

I hope we can at least see some changes soon.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ferretfur

Wigetts · November 5, 2015

I agree, for a hypercrate, more rare's based on the coin cost.

dscount · November 9, 2015

Feedback on new CM packs..

I'm in agreement with many others that VALUE doesn't seem to show up in the new packs. I'm not one to spend hundreds a month on packs (Sorry, no whale here), but I do like to purchase them off GTN with credits. (Someone is paying real money for them).

BUT...

These new ones suck. Let me give you examples of packs I just bought...

Grand Pack Crystals - Boom.. got a nice Purple worth okay amount of credits. (About pack cost)

Grand Pack Toys - Yea... got RED GLOWING EYES... really? That crap is in Grand Packs?

For 100cc I would have been really pissed if I hadn't opened it up grand packs with credits purchase instead. The problem is you have made SO MANY items "Rare" or what not that are useless crap people can buy on GTN for 10k or less that it makes the value of packs drop ALOT.

Me... drop the price to like 50cc and I think you will see more spending.

So I tried a more expensive market and got similar results (Random out of blue, but nothing super awesome)

Gold Armor - 2.8 mil - Saber Chest piece, and Ceremonial Set (2mil GTN)

Gold Armor - 2.5 mil - Wayfar Robe, and Energized Armor Set (2-3mil GTN for both)

Gold Mount - 2 mil - Firm Taun (2mil GTN)

Gold Mount - 2.8 mil - Marsh Raptor (2.8mil GTN)

Gold Mount - 3 mil - Corel Stardrive (3-4mil GTN)

I'd rather see PACKS that contain a LIMITED number of items (Listed online some place) that have VALUE to me as a consumer.. If I saw a GOLD pack that had the top 20 items of all time for limited time... for the same amount they cost today... (1200cc Armor, 1500cc Mount) then I might actually BUY a couple with CC and not chance.

-Niasha- · November 9, 2015

Its pretty simpel what i "think" ... I feel like you just stole alot of my money ... that is how i think and FEEL ... clearly i know by logic i did it by own choise.

First thing that got me, was only getting 1 item (not counting the companion gift) ... i hade NOT noticed the change to packs, i didtn read the description because i was used to buying em for as long they been here . I have spend thousinds of $ buying packs, not kidding.

Before i could buy two big pack (5400 packs) and with that i would pretty much have ALL items from that pack collected, sometimes i didtn have all, but the dublicates of items i allready got was worth enough to sell and buy the missing pieces. So i nearly have full collection. that is how much i have spend.

This time i bought one of the newest big pack (5400 pack) and opened it , i didtn get a single gold item as far i recall, got 11 dublicates bronze items (i recall its was over 1/3 of the items gained), to make it worse 4 of those was the SAME item gotten in ROW !!!. (honestly you need to stop give items a person allready own or atleast have a limit to like max 3 of same item, so two would be dublicates). And not a single armor piece of either of the two sets that i actualy wanted the most. (which is unheard off, never tried that before in old system) ... after that chock i clearly didtn buy any more big packs ... way to little gained for my money . I admit i was actualy pretty angry irl after this experiance.

There should be atleast 2 items like earlier (armor, vehicle, crystal, etc) and "lesser" items like companion gift, jawa junk, gift certificate, faction , and so on.

the bronze, silver and gold packs idea i like tho , i have benefitted greatly from being able to complete my collection in certain spots like toys and so on

SuperGrunt · November 11, 2015

I will probably never but them again and will keep my purchases limited to only buying the items I want from the GTN. I'm not sure how I will spend my future Cartel Coins but rest assured that it will never be on a single Cartel Gamble pack unless those of us who opened them get some kind of reimbursement for these Underworld Alliance packs that are such a rip off.

Let’s Chat – Cartel Market and You: New pack design (Underworld Alliance)

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