4.0 Fury vs Rage, PvP

[Iserahn]

I am a bit concerned by the fact that Rage juggernauts have a better ''rotation'' than Fury Maras as it is

 

as a Jugger you have a constant flow of heavy hitters after you use your Raging Burst and Furious Strike,

apart from Ravage which is shared, Rage can follow with Retaliation and Vicious Throw (trigger by charge) which pretty much means that the cycle will begin again, not to mention easier rage generation due to Enrage

 

as a Mara if you jump on someone you will be stuck using Vicious slash while waiting for the next Raging Burst to come of CD, not to mention that if you might run out of rage in sustained combat

 

mobility should be a tie or in jugg's favour depending the situation

 

survivability should be again tied or in juggs favour (unless some 5v1 scenario where only undying rage can save you- irrelevant)

 

and Jugg has 4 sec movement impairing and knockback immunity on charge + taunts(huge)

 

are those the price of a 6 sec CC immunity on Force Crush or have i missed something?

 

thanks in advance

Edited October 26, 2015 by Iserahn

[Keetsune]

Jug was better in Rage spec since 1.0, deal with that, i personally didn't played since 3.0 was announced and rejoined only now ... seems nothing changed in balance of Jug vs Marauder in same spec. I still can't understand why Sniper and Marauder (pure DPS classes) still can't outdps hybrid classes, for me this is always been nonsense.

[Vodrin]

I feel like my mara in fury spec is considerably more durable than my jug in rage spec unless ED is available. Cloak of pain is a big deal. Jug definitely has some advantages, but it can still be stunned immediately after leap. the 6 second immunity on force crush is huge, and I don't find myself using viscious slash often at all. Between Force Scream, Obliterate, Ravage and Force Crush, you should only need to use viscious slash if you are on target continuously for more than 2 full rotations and that rarely happens.

 

That said, jugs are generally stronger than marauders right now and have been since 3.0 hit. It's just not an overwhelming difference so if you are a better player you can still take a rage jug as a fury mara. Just don't expect to win against a good player.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Vodrin

[Anbokr]

I've got both a jugg and mara at 60 and looking to make one my pvp main but can't decide. I've always been more partial to my mara (main in 1.0), but I enjoyed jugg more in what little of 3.0 I played. Is Jugg rage really that much better compared to fury mara? Edited October 28, 2015 by Anbokr

[Vodrin]

I've got both a jugg and mara at 60 and looking to make one my pvp main but can't decide. I've always been more partial to my mara (main in 1.0), but I enjoyed jugg more in what little of 3.0 I played. Is Jugg rage really that much better compared to fury mara?

 

I don't feel like it's a massive difference having played both. Jugs just feel stronger now due to some higher hits and many of the advantages listed in this thread. I would say that I still think vengeance beats rage in overall strength.

[Giliodor]

Vicious Slash crits (for me) 7-8k. Is that not heavy enough? I agree, it would be awesome to have a Vicious Throw after Charge, but I can live with my marauder as it is now.

[Aluvi]

I feel like my mara in fury spec is considerably more durable than my jug in rage spec unless ED is available. Cloak of pain is a big deal. Jug definitely has some advantages, but it can still be stunned immediately after leap. the 6 second immunity on force crush is huge, and I don't find myself using viscious slash often at all. Between Force Scream, Obliterate, Ravage and Force Crush, you should only need to use viscious slash if you are on target continuously for more than 2 full rotations and that rarely happens.

 

That said, jugs are generally stronger than marauders right now and have been since 3.0 hit. It's just not an overwhelming difference so if you are a better player you can still take a rage jug as a fury mara. Just don't expect to win against a good player.

 

^Pretty much this.

 

You only should need to use Vicious Slash once in the whole Fury rotation IIRC, and it's rare that you actually get the opportunity to have enough time on target without stuns to actually do the full rotation. Usually you're just picking out the heavy hitting parts of the rotation to use.

 

That said, in general Rage hits a lot harder. A big part of this is the Pooled Hatred utility. Used correctly, this can turn into 25K Raging Bursts or Furious Strikes, and it's up fairly often. On say a sorc, it's possible to get a 25K Burst, 18K Furious Strike, and 16K+ Vicious Throw (used at any hp due to charge proc utility). Throw in the dots from a Force Crush right after the Raging burst as well and you have a sizable amount of damage done in a short window.

 

In general, Juggs feel stronger overall, but especially in Rage vs Fury right now. Taunt and Force Push are also huge. People don't realize how amazing a well timed force push to separate a guarded healer and their tank can be. You can go from facing an unstoppable tank + heals combo to just beating on a healer for a few seconds, and with 2 or 3 people jumping on the healer, they die pretty quick. Taunts of course are always a big deal, and used correctly can effectively neuter the best DPSers on the opposite team.

 

Juggs also just feel more fun to me, although I will admit, I miss Force Camo so damn much, and I need to get better at using my taunt correctly.

[Lalainnia]

^Pretty much this.

 

You only should need to use Vicious Slash once in the whole Fury rotation IIRC, and it's rare that you actually get the opportunity to have enough time on target without stuns to actually do the full rotation. Usually you're just picking out the heavy hitting parts of the rotation to use.

 

That said, in general Rage hits a lot harder. A big part of this is the Pooled Hatred utility. Used correctly, this can turn into 25K Raging Bursts or Furious Strikes, and it's up fairly often. On say a sorc, it's possible to get a 25K Burst, 18K Furious Strike, and 16K+ Vicious Throw (used at any hp due to charge proc utility). Throw in the dots from a Force Crush right after the Raging burst as well and you have a sizable amount of damage done in a short window.

 

In general, Juggs feel stronger overall, but especially in Rage vs Fury right now. Taunt and Force Push are also huge. People don't realize how amazing a well timed force push to separate a guarded healer and their tank can be. You can go from facing an unstoppable tank + heals combo to just beating on a healer for a few seconds, and with 2 or 3 people jumping on the healer, they die pretty quick. Taunts of course are always a big deal, and used correctly can effectively neuter the best DPSers on the opposite team.

 

Juggs also just feel more fun to me, although I will admit, I miss Force Camo so damn much, and I need to get better at using my taunt correctly.

 

That's odd pool hatred shouldn't effect a buffed smash or raging burst because it's focus cost goes down to 0. I smell a bug! NERF IT NAW:p

[Frenesi]

That's odd pool hatred shouldn't effect a buffed smash or raging burst because it's focus cost goes down to 0. I smell a bug! NERF IT NAW:p

 

While it's cost goes down to zero, it's still considered rage-consuming skill. Same happens with mara's fury generation - it works off proced vicious throw in carnage

[Lalainnia]

While it's cost goes down to zero, it's still considered rage-consuming skill. Same happens with mara's fury generation - it works off proced vicious throw in carnage

 

Maras in general don't have pool hatred. The other part about it being considered rage consuming sorta makes sense...

Edited October 31, 2015 by Lalainnia

[Vodrin]

Maras in general don't have pool hatred. The other part about it being considered rage consuming sorta makes sense...

 

I think the last quote referred to the fact that fury is only supposed to build with rage consuming abilities, but viscous throw does not consume rage with the proc in carnage but still generates fury. Same thing as pooled hatred. Although maybe you are thinking of the way pooled hatred was in the 1.x patch cycle where it only affected melee abilities.

[Lalainnia]

I think the last quote referred to the fact that fury is only supposed to build with rage consuming abilities, but viscous throw does not consume rage with the proc in carnage but still generates fury. Same thing as pooled hatred. Although maybe you are thinking of the way pooled hatred was in the 1.x patch cycle where it only affected melee abilities.

 

OOOOO ok nvm then ty didn't get it.

[RodneyMcNeely]

Heya, folks!

 

I have a question for you: between Rage/Focus and Fury/Concentration which do you guys think deals with DPS operatives the best in PvP?

 

I'm at the point where I need to choose my advanced class, but I'm torn between the two. I like the survivability of the Guardian, but I also like the mobility + Cloak combination that the Sentinel has.

 

However, the WORST thing in my PvP book is getting my *** handed to me by a giggling operative. So, you can see why I want to run with the spec that has the greatest chance of surviving their cowardly, snickering assaults. LOL!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[UglyStik]

Carnage isn't good for pvp anymore? Not enough sustained DPS?

[Iserahn]

Carnage isn't good for pvp anymore? Not enough sustained DPS?

 

Carnage has great DPS both sustained and burst, you just have to sacrifice gravity vortex for it

[Vodrin]

Carnage isn't good for pvp anymore? Not enough sustained DPS?

 

Personally I am liking carnage better than fury again since 4.0 hit. The changes in how crit works has done wonder for the spec. Problem is that you still are vulnerable to being CC'd during gore windows. Utilities can help a little with that but hardly solves the problem.

 

Fury has built in CC immunity that helps the situation a lot but has significantly lower sustained DPS despite it's good burst. Carnage by comparison has very good burst as well as very good sustained damage. It's burst is just much more vulnerable to crowd control than Fury's is.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Vodrin

[Aluvi]

I still love Carnage. It's more fun to me. I just don't love the warzones comprised of 100% sorcs/sniper/PT that demolish me. The best PTs regularly do about 25-50% more dps than I do in warzones now. That's even when we're winning and I am able to kill and farm dps without discretion.

 

If BioWare would undo the surge nerf that they did for absolutely no reason, and without telling us, I feel like Carnage would be borderline good.

 

You can still shred bads and mediocre players all day in the spec though, and it's really fun.

[Vodrin]

I still love Carnage. It's more fun to me. I just don't love the warzones comprised of 100% sorcs/sniper/PT that demolish me. The best PTs regularly do about 25-50% more dps than I do in warzones now. That's even when we're winning and I am able to kill and farm dps without discretion.

 

If BioWare would undo the surge nerf that they did for absolutely no reason, and without telling us, I feel like Carnage would be borderline good.

 

You can still shred bads and mediocre players all day in the spec though, and it's really fun.

 

I'm not sure that PT's are a good bench mark right now as I believe their damage output potential is a bit over the top right now, but I understand what you are saying. While DB would hit really hard without that surge nerf, it's not like PT's and snipers aren't already doing the same thing.

[namkcas]

I spent the last week making a Rage Jugg and have thought a lot about this in comparison to my Fury Mara. Both are in full ranked gear.

 

Jugg:

ED is a Monster, if it is up you have to kill me twice. But beyond that, I really don't have a lot of defensive cooldowns. I also feel like I need to use my direct Rage generators more often. There is a mobility trade-off between the 2 classes, but I feel slower as a Rage Jugg and a bit harder to stay on healers. I hit HARD and I loaded up on Crit Augments. I feel more survivable and I love Force Push...find Retaliation clumsy.

 

Mara

I feel like I am a glass cannon, for killing healers with Crippling Slash I find Mara's superior. I am more fragile even though I have to use my Defensive cooldowns very aggressively. I have to say that I see many poorly played Maras who never use Pred or Force Camo and just get slaughtered. If a Jugg has ED up they kill Maras easily. Without it, much more of an even contest. I don't have a lot of Crit Augments yet (I built her before the new math was posted) and I am working on that.

 

All in all, I wish my Jugg had Dual Saber Throw and Force Camo. I wish my Mara had ED and Intercede. I like the easy ghetto tanking that my Jugg brings. I like the group buffing my Mara can do. So, better/worse...I am a more experienced Mara at the moment. I do a bit better right now on my Jugg.

 

If you visit the Bastion, you can find me on my Jugg (Exwife) or my Mara (Khristal).