Maybe the game is getting too casual?

[Nihilkult]

In your opinion. I accept the fact that I'm not the guy who just presses buttons. Remember playing street fighter against the guy who just randomly pressed buttonso to try to win? if he beat someone he was happy even though he had no clue what he was doing.

 

That way of thinking is far more common now. People are proud they suck. Lowering the basketball goal is only fun for the bad player. For me the challenge was the whole point of playing.

 

Remember game genie? Its sad but people really are paying $15 a month to watch the game play itself. I'm a dinosaur and this patch let me know I've out grown the game. Wildstar tried challenging game play and failed. Star citizen might be my last hope at actually enjoying a game again. It's not bioware's fault for knowing what will make money instead of pleasing gamers.

 

There are still tons of challenging games out there. When I want something challenging, I'll go for some indie rpg or a freaking danmaku. Or I'll just go on Street Fighter 4. Or I load some freaking hard map for Doom 2.

When I'm on Star Wars, I want a bit of challenge but not the type that will force me to keep on for hours to get the end game content.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Nihilkult

[Ampalaea]

How do you know it has brought new players in? Bioware keeps that info private.

 

My server, red eclipse, first time had que to login...the last time that happened was day 1 release..you dont need bioware info to understand that the game is full of players, for the first time since release.

[Warrgames]

My server, red eclipse, first time had que to login...the last time that happened was day 1 release..you dont need bioware info to understand that the game is full of players, for the first time since release.

 

Judging the expansion success right now makes you a fool. Majority and yes majority of mmo players bounce to whatever is shiny and new with all sorts of promises of greatness. In two months when is when you can truly judge if the change were for the better or not. In two months all those player that flock to shiny games will be gone. Not when everyone is longing into see the expansion.

 

If you EVER played a mmo from launch or for an expansion you would now this. Sever are always full with the launch of something new and than drop off because people only came to check it out.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Warrgames

[PadsterPwns]

My server, red eclipse, first time had que to login...the last time that happened was day 1 release..you dont need bioware info to understand that the game is full of players, for the first time since release.

 

I'm actually on the Red Eclipse, I'm part of the Eternal Serenity/Insanity guilds, but I haven't noticed a difference in que times and like the poster above said, we probably shouldn't judge now as more people will play when it's brand new but in a few months? Who knows.

[ScoutinArbiter]

Snip

 

Casuals always fuel MMOs: the death of the casual demand is the death of ALL MMOs. It may yet happen but not anytime soon. Hardcore peeps can't sustain an MMO anymore, the glory days of vanilla WoW (even then it was filled with casuals) is long over. Just look at Wildstar, it had to remove several of its traditional old school mechanics just to survive let alone grow.

 

Face it, the age of the 'hardcore' died in the early 2000s.

[Mikahrone]

Casuals always fuel MMOs: the death of the casual demand is the death of ALL MMOs. It may yet happen but not anytime soon. Hardcore peeps can't sustain an MMO anymore, the glory days of vanilla WoW (even then it was filled with casuals) is long over. Just look at Wildstar, it had to remove several of its traditional old school mechanics just to survive let alone grow.

 

Face it, the age of the 'hardcore' died in the early 2000s.

 

"hardcore" died in WoW vanilla when Blizzard figured out that their "EQ like endgame raiding" was done by <5% of playerbase.

 

WoW vanilla grew because accessibility/soloability that WoW brought to the table, not because of those <5%. If whole WoW has been made like that endgame...well...it would probably be where EQ ended up after 2004.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Maraxuss]

So, you want them to punish these people and get them to cancel subs and quit playing? Yeah, great plan.

 

dumbing the game down enough for window lickers is a better plan Seriously if they are going to have to cater to the people that would use to put strength gear on their inquisitor, level 60 tanks that didn't know what guard was, or dps that insisted they were only going to use saber strike only because they wanted to....the whole thing is already shot.

[Maraxuss]

"hardcore" died in WoW vanilla when Blizzard figured out that their "EQ like endgame raiding" was done by <5% of playerbase.

 

WoW vanilla grew because accessibility/soloability that WoW brought to the table, not because of those <5%. If whole WoW has been made like that endgame...well...it would probably be where EQ ended up after 2004.

 

your joking right, I played WoW from vanilla till after the panda expansion came out, literally years. WoW is the furthest thing from a casual game that could ever exist, was literally a job...even if you don't raid. There were a million things you have to do along with a million dailies you had to do upon longing in every day if you wanted to stay competitive. If you even wanted to try group content such as raids, you better spend hours watching you tube videos knowing fights, link gearscore, achievement and item level with raid leader gear checks. Heck to even do an instance (flashpoint) you had better have watched you tube videos, know your role, what to do, where to do it, and when to do it, or cause a wipe and get booted from group.

 

In comparison swtor now plays itself almost, it was pretty easy before, but now its ridiculously easy.

 

There is a middle ground between the two extremes some where, and that is where the fun lies.

[ReverendAnderson]

It's not really that much about difficulty and more about compelling gameplay.

 

This for sure.

[Kaddrius]

It will never happen, but a hard mode server would be nice. Leave the kids to their safe playground where a few hours of grinding only costs a few credits to repair and they never have to go through the hassle of actually dying and trying to figure out the best way to kill a mob.

 

If WoW ever opened a Vanilla server I'd be all over it in a heartbeat, because that game went through this easy mode crap years ago. If this game opened a hard mode server all of my toons would be parked there asap.

 

Aren't there enough console games already?

[DogMeat]

Those that find this game to be now set on “Easy Mode” .. welcome to the realm of Entitlement.

I play therefore I should win, not learn, work or put some effort into anything anymore.

Sad but true.

Not looking to get it to beast mode but at least make folks THINK before they act. Right now no thinking is needed. Just click and kill.. no real effort needed.

If you say less you are of course a fan of this type of game play.

I want what we all want, great story, something to immerse myself in and have to work at it.

You did not become a Sith or Jed i just cause you wanted it. No, you had to go earn it.

It feels at this time nothing is earned in this game anymore…period.

It is all too easy and if the casual player that jumps on every few days to gain a lvl or kill a boss is what they want.. they go t it.

Lots of players are doing Ops, Flashpoint, raids..est.

Many are not. This is what the game is and BW should cater to both ….

 

Like stated, I feel bad for the “player” that does not have to invest time to learn his toon and what it takes to be good at it..not elite but good.

 

Dög out..............

[Satanski]

So, you want them to punish these people and get them to cancel subs and quit playing? Yeah, great plan.

 

Some people gonna cancel. I did

[Teladis]

Those that find this game to be now set on “Easy Mode” .. welcome to the realm of Entitlement.

I play therefore I should win, not learn, work or put some effort into anything anymore.

Sad but true.

Not looking to get it to beast mode but at least make folks THINK before they act. Right now no thinking is needed. Just click and kill.. no real effort needed.

If you say less you are of course a fan of this type of game play.

I want what we all want, great story, something to immerse myself in and have to work at it.

You did not become a Sith or Jed i just cause you wanted it. No, you had to go earn it.

It feels at this time nothing is earned in this game anymore…period.

It is all too easy and if the casual player that jumps on every few days to gain a lvl or kill a boss is what they want.. they go t it.

Lots of players are doing Ops, Flashpoint, raids..est.

Many are not. This is what the game is and BW should cater to both ….

 

Like stated, I feel bad for the “player” that does not have to invest time to learn his toon and what it takes to be good at it..not elite but good.

 

Dög out..............

 

Here we can see a player who uses entitlement just because he does not like the changes.

 

 

A lot of the players seem to agree with me. The MMO elements of this game blow. The combat blows, The raiding blows, The no macros/addon support blows. And dungeons are boring.

 

 

Focus on the strong points of Bioware..the story is how this MMO will stand apart from others. The only way this game could compete with other mmos. The only way this game could go back to focus on raiding and dungeons is to make the combat fun. That would mean at least half of the skills would be gone, and they focus on less is more with class design.

[Uruare]

People just don't learn how to play their roles anymore, because everything is getting too easy.

And then as soon as it gets a little challengeing, people are overwhelmed. I was in a flashpoint yesterday via GF, and it

was all dd's.....but still people didn't feel the need to heal themselves up before fights. Plus the tank didn't even know what that was.

On the other hand you can't blame them, when you have companions that can do most of the content alone

I would like if players took their time again and wait and discuss strategies before just pulling everything.

 

This complaint has been floating around the MMO scene ever since people would screw up puking the ancient dragon at the bottom of original Destard n Ultima Online, or wouldn't heal eachother.

 

So, nice attempt at blaming the view yet again on yet another thing you clearly don't like. Unforgettably common as it is for certain people to say exactly this order much every time something even halfway imaginably corollary changes, it's quite tired and you should give it a rest.

 

When you're the only person left playing, you can decide how everyone playing should play. Until then.../shrug

[Kaddrius]

This complaint has been floating around the MMO scene ever since people would screw up puking the ancient dragon at the bottom of original Destard n Ultima Online, or wouldn't heal eachother.

 

So, nice attempt at blaming the view yet again on yet another thing you clearly don't like. Unforgettably common as it is for certain people to say exactly this order much every time something even halfway imaginably corollary changes, it's quite tired and you should give it a rest.

 

When you're the only person left playing, you can decide how everyone playing should play. Until then.../shrug

 

It's not tired because every MMO ends up doing this. Going easy mode. Giving everything hard away for free. Why? I don't know.

 

Obviously you like it. And everyone knows that shiny outfits aren't really earned anymore. Rep, XP, commendations, skills (now nerfed to make it easier for ADHD people to 'outfit' their toons), companions, (buffed, and also made exactly the same, just with different skins).

 

It's all way, way too easy. Given the ability to level-match toons for the planet they are on, it shouldn't be that difficult to convert any of the low pop servers into something where a Heroic mission is actually heroic, you know, a challenge.

 

That way all the kids can strut around in end gear after a solid week of playing *snork*, and people who like to figure out the puzzle of how to kill a boss can also play.

[Chirru]

People just don't learn how to play their roles anymore, because everything is getting too easy.

And then as soon as it gets a little challengeing, people are overwhelmed. I was in a flashpoint yesterday via GF, and it

was all dd's.....but still people didn't feel the need to heal themselves up before fights. Plus the tank didn't even know what that was.

On the other hand you can't blame them, when you have companions that can do most of the content alone

I would like if players took their time again and wait and discuss strategies before just pulling everything.

 

The assumption made in the above is that the OP of course does things the proper way and other players do not (because they do not do it the OP's way). honestly... remembering 4 years of SWTOR, random groups always were of course the most efficient and skilled, and played always at maximum efficiency (sarcasm intended).

 

To me (personal opinion) random groups in flash-points were always a huge gamble. rarely did I hit on a group that wanted to role-play the flash-point. Most players just wished to rush through things for the sake of exp points. How (seriously) does anyone expect players to discuss strategy when they tell you from the start to space-bar through all cut-scenes?

 

Really... it has nothing to do with learning to play the game properly. Me thinks it has all to do with doing the same thing for the 20th time. Repetition gets tedious and... well, repetitive.

 

Bottom point: it has nothing to do with the game getting too easy...it has all to do with players attitudes.

[Kaddrius]

The assumption made in the above is that the OP of course does things the proper way and other players do not (because they do not do it the OP's way). honestly... remembering 4 years of SWTOR, random groups always were of course the most efficient and skilled, and played always at maximum efficiency (sarcasm intended).

 

To me (personal opinion) random groups in flash-points were always a huge gamble. rarely did I hit on a group that wanted to role-play the flash-point. Most players just wished to rush through things for the sake of exp points. How (seriously) does anyone expect players to discuss strategy when they tell you from the start to space-bar through all cut-scenes?

 

Really... it has nothing to do with learning to play the game properly. Me thinks it has all to do with doing the same thing for the 20th time. Repetition gets tedious and... well, repetitive.

 

Bottom point: it has nothing to do with the game getting too easy...it has all to do with players attitudes.

 

I guess attitude is being able to ignore a fight and let the comp handle it because something interesting is happening on TV.

 

Your point about space-barring through all the cut scenes is well made however. Not everyone is a 'l33t' player doing it for the 500th time, and sometimes the immersive nature of a story is well worth the time. I will space-bar through cut scenes I've seen many times, but never tell others to do it. Knowing how long some of them are let's me get a coffee or something while the other group members who want to see the scene can still enjoy the story.

 

Occasionally, it's also fun to help someone go through a flash point for the first time. It reminds me that it can still be a challenge, especially the way match making has been all buggered up and a lvl 20 toon is matched with lvl 40, 50, or 60 toons. Even if they're good, they still only have the skills of a lvl 20 toon.

[FerkWork]

While the title of thread is inflammatory bait, lol at the inflammatory responses.

 

OP request from my understanding was "Hey guys lets heal up and not overwhelm the healer by chain pulling everything. Also let's check to see if everyone is on the same page about this fight so we aren't frustrated!"

 

I see nothing wrong with this. It's better than chain pulling and having a negative experience for everyone involved in group content. It's not about lording over others. You as a group sit down and think for like 30 seconds Capiche than blindly run in assuming everyone knows what to do. I actually find it quite relaxing night to talk strat on any fight but that's my opinion. Trust me it's a better experience when everyone is happy and hey you might find a people you had good time with.

Edited October 25, 2015 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

No, please no. I don't want to have to discuss strategy just to get some random person I don't know through story mode content. In depth learning should never be in a pickup group.

 

I would rather sit down and discuss strategy with someone unfamiliar to an SM content than just kick them cause I want phat loots fast. If you want to that's your thing but now your just leaving people with bad tastes in their mouth

[Jumajin]

your joking right, I played WoW from vanilla till after the panda expansion came out, literally years. WoW is the furthest thing from a casual game that could ever exist, was literally a job...even if you don't raid. There were a million things you have to do along with a million dailies you had to do upon longing in every day if you wanted to stay competitive. If you even wanted to try group content such as raids, you better spend hours watching you tube videos knowing fights, link gearscore, achievement and item level with raid leader gear checks. Heck to even do an instance (flashpoint) you had better have watched you tube videos, know your role, what to do, where to do it, and when to do it, or cause a wipe and get booted from group.

 

In comparison swtor now plays itself almost, it was pretty easy before, but now its ridiculously easy.

 

There is a middle ground between the two extremes some where, and that is where the fun lies.

 

Really? You played WoW all that time? I have to doubt that based on your post. WoW started going casual right after WoTLK. They tried to bring back the hardcore mode in Cataclysm, and it blew-up in their face and was quickly nerfed. Mists of Pandaria brought with it the next major shift into even more casual, especially with the talent tree overhaul and massive simplification (which SWTOR quickly copied). Then all the stat squishing and other changes in Warlords of Draenor solidified it into true easy mode.

 

Oh, sure, if you're talking running the WoD Mythic Raids what you say might be true, but even then your biggest hurdle is getting enough people together since Mythic Raiding is server specific only.

 

WoW is most definitely a casual centric game, and has been for many, many years. I have literally been in Heroic dungeons with the TV on in the background, and could split my attention between the dungeon and the TV without even coming close to a wipe.

 

You want a game whose dungeons and especially raids are non-casual designed, go try them in Wildstar at level 50. I have, and they are no joke. Unfortunately, I don't have the time nor desire for raids like that anymore, so that is one endgame I won't participate in.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jumajin

[Kaddrius]

While the title of thread is inflammatory bait, lol at the inflammatory responses.

 

OP request from my understanding was "Hey guys lets heal up and not overwhelm the healer by chain pulling everything. Also let's check to see if everyone is on the same page about this fight so we aren't frustrated!"

 

I see nothing wrong with this. It's better than chain pulling and having a negative experience for everyone involved in group content. It's not about lording over others. You as a group sit down and think for like 30 seconds Capiche than blindly run in assuming everyone knows what to do. I actually find it quite relaxing night to talk strat on any fight but that's my opinion. Trust me it's a better experience when everyone is happy and hey you might find a people you had good time with.

 

That's hilarious. I was in a group and the lowest lvl member kept chain pulling everything on the way up the first hill (within view of the repair droid) in Taral V. We tried to tell him it wasn't necessary, that most of the mobs could be avoided......We ended up leaving him alone on the hill.

[Sindorin]

So, maybe people are forgetting that the developers made this game for casual players at the onset? If you want to crunch numbers and max props, go to algebra class.

[LordNyxus]

Casual? Really? My wife, her friend, and I just finished Athiss without a single incap/death. As a healer, I did more DPS that I ever would have thought possible. Only threw out a heal once an a while, mainly so we didn't have to stop to heal between encounters. The funny part.......my wife and her friend were also playing some other game on their phones at the same time. I never should have shown her how to "follow."

 

There is no challenge anymore. There is no sense of accomplishment. There is no real fun. I am so glad that I didn't have to actually buy the game for my wife and friend, like I did. I only regret that I actually paid for subs. Oh well, I tried. Should've just went to the movies :/

[chemithir]

I don't disagree with the OP but I also don't disagree with some of the rebuttals. Personally I have 1 level 65 (main) and a bunch in their 20's and 30's. I think there is room for both raiding and SP PVE. I like raiding with my main and trying to get him all of the best gear. But that is me, that may not be the next person. Personally, leveling 14 characters through the same content like Tython, UGH, is a nightmare to me. So I use GF (which i agree is a joke for HM) to take a break from the horrible places I am forced to suffer through again and again with each character I roll.

 

I don't blame Bioware for trying to draw in the casual gamer. MMO crowds have been saying this for years. <insert MMO here> is catering to the casual gamer.. Can you blame them for trying to make money? They are a business and most of their jobs are reliant on that business being successful.

 

But, the game is big enough for both. level's 1-60 basically catered to the end game crowd. Little tidbits here but major overhauls to the TFP's and HMFP's. Revan introduced the solo FP, which was hugely successful. Now they through the casual gamer a bone. I say it is fine. It may not be my first choice for an expansion but it drew in a crowd.

 

I am sure BW has a bunch of number crunchers sitting around analyzing data which is driving the direction of the game. We can either accept and continue playing how we like, or we move on to another game. Those are your choices.

[Kaddrius]

I don't disagree with the OP but I also don't disagree with some of the rebuttals. Personally I have 1 level 65 (main) and a bunch in their 20's and 30's. I think there is room for both raiding and SP PVE. I like raiding with my main and trying to get him all of the best gear. But that is me, that may not be the next person. Personally, leveling 14 characters through the same content like Tython, UGH, is a nightmare to me. So I use GF (which i agree is a joke for HM) to take a break from the horrible places I am forced to suffer through again and again with each character I roll.

 

I don't blame Bioware for trying to draw in the casual gamer. MMO crowds have been saying this for years. <insert MMO here> is catering to the casual gamer.. Can you blame them for trying to make money? They are a business and most of their jobs are reliant on that business being successful.

 

But, the game is big enough for both. level's 1-60 basically catered to the end game crowd. Little tidbits here but major overhauls to the TFP's and HMFP's. Revan introduced the solo FP, which was hugely successful. Now they through the casual gamer a bone. I say it is fine. It may not be my first choice for an expansion but it drew in a crowd.

 

I am sure BW has a bunch of number crunchers sitting around analyzing data which is driving the direction of the game. We can either accept and continue playing how we like, or we move on to another game. Those are your choices.

 

This is the point that the pro-easy-mode people miss. The game SHOULD be big enough for everyone. It is obviously interesting to a lot of people with very different tastes and play styles. There should be no need to alienate old-timers, casual gamers who might be experienced, or new players.

 

Btw I tend to keep one main with the best of everything (pvp geared though) and a bunch of toons with whatever I can find.

 

I'm not sure about the 'crowd' being drawn in though. A lot of people were on the mailing list and saw the relatively good looking rewards for a relatively short subscription. The reality of all my alts getting the same Nico, bonus blasters, bike, etc is a little different. Also, there does happen to be a new Star Wars movie being released, and many people are perhaps wanting to experience the SW universe a little after some time away.