Why I Think KotFE Ruined SWTOR

[Eillack]

Very well written.

 

I hope the knights and whales don't go after you too harshly, for this.

[iankalo]

[Nohonor]

SWtoR will not last forever. Not to be ominous but your time spent in this game is for the here and now. SWtoR will not be like the movies, lasting decades and still loved and watched by adoring fans. Maybe it's just me, maybe I've been jaded by years of playing my favorite game franchises. I don't look at whether or not a game is 'immersive' or 'truthful' to the IP, I look at what entertainment I get from playing a game. If I get no entertainment, I do not play, watch, or give money to support things that ask that support from me.

 

As a paying customer, the OP reserves the right to voice his displeasure or agreement with the product he is using, even if I think his reasons are petty.

[Swissbob]

 

[...]

 

Maybe it's just me, maybe I've been jaded by years of playing my favorite game franchises. I don't look at whether or not a game is 'immersive' or 'truthful' to the IP, I look at what entertainment I get from playing a game. If I get no entertainment, I do not play, watch, or give money to support things that ask that support from me.

 

As a paying customer, the OP reserves the right to voice his displeasure or agreement with the product he is using, even if I think his reasons are petty.

 

I can't agree more when you say "I look at what entertainment I get from playing a game." I do too, as, after all, entertainment is really the sole (or at least biggest) reason for playing games.

 

However, when it comes to SWTOR, I get my entertainment from it being a good story, and it being truthful to the IP (see my Preface). Thus, when I think the game's story and link to the IP stop being strong, I stop enjoying the game, and this is exactly why the game has ceased being fun (for me). If the story doesn't matter to you, or if you think the Star Wars feel doesn't matter, I can see why you don't inherently assign much value to any points that I made (everyone enjoys games for different reasons, after all).

 

But ultimately I think SWTOR's two biggest selling points are its story and its Star Wars IP (just take a look at the game's marketing), and while it's quite clear many people think this expansion does no harm to either, I think it's wrong to think that taking issue with these aspects is petty, as they are for many people (myself included) crucial to the entertainment value of the game.

 

However, if I misunderstood you or inferred incorrectly and you do think that the story and Star Wars feel are important, than I would be curious why exactly you think my reasons are petty.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Swissbob

[Billupsat]

Several years ago, before changing the setting radically on one of its core RPG settings, a company remarked that sometimes a good idea goes wrong and you end up having to reset everything. That's what this feels like, without the honesty of an up front statement/warning. I'm not saying it's horrible, but I feel this is an attempt to carry on something that is finished instead of owning up to a) it's done and b) we need something new.

 

Part of how KOTOR II worked was that Bioware recognized when Revan's story was over and created a new character for a new game. With Shadows of Revan they reversed that decision and banked on nostalgia. With the new expansion they're banking on this feeling like a new and exciting story BUT they're dragging our old characters into it. With every campaign you have to realize when one story is done and the time for a new tale with new characters has arrived. SWTOR is and has been fun, but I can't escape the feeling they should have simply made KOTOR 3 or another Star Wars RPG altogether.

 

Whenever this game gets stale for me I take a break and return when it feels fresh again. I'm trying that again with the current expansion and hoping for the best.

 

That wasn't what made Kotor 2 work. Kotor 2 worked because of the attention to character and the depth of writing Obsidian gave it, not to mention Obsidian showed great care with the character of Revan and his legacy, which is more than I can say for Bioware since they reacquired him. Bioware also had next to nothing to do with K2, Obsidian developed the story all on their own.

 

OP, I was glad to read that you too enjoyed Kotor 2, it certainly made a lifetime star wars fan out of me.

 

As for your issues with KotFE, I get it. Time skips are often implemented for one reason. What's happening has gotten stale and rather than ending it (which they really can't in an MMO) they jump ahead in an attempt to freshen things up, (It succeeded for me) but all of that comes with a price, and the price in this instance is all of our accomplishments were made more or less irrelevant. However, storywise I haven't enjoyed the game this much since vanilla, and I was one of the people who liked SoR. (even if it did completely destroy Revan for me as a character.)

Edited October 26, 2015 by Billupsat

[Sarfux]

Knights of the Fallen Empire is the best expansion in the history of this game. Period.

[Swissbob]

 

Well while I must commend you for being the first to utter this immortal phrase here, I must also point out that you failed to read... well, probably the entire thing... but most definitely this bit:

 

Here’s the really tragic part. Is SWTOR over for me? Well…..

 

No.

 

Unfortunately not. I’ve simply invested too much time, money, and most importantly, valuable emotional attachment to not only SWTOR, but KOTOR and the Old Republic Era of Star Wars as a whole to give up now. I simply, for my own sense of personal closure, need to see where the story is going. So, I will keep coming back, likely until SWTOR’s funding gets cut and its servers get shut down for good. After years of playing, hundreds of dollars spent, and countless fond memories of stock striking a Sith Lord I just pulled out of the air, hunting down a Jedi through the snows of Hoth, or flirting with every girl in sight with my dashing Smuggler, SWTOR’s hooks still reside in me. So, I’m along for the ride. For better or worse, I’ll be here for the years to come.

 

So, I have no free stuff to give… I’m holding onto it like a miser who’s near death.

 

So.... the short answer: No.

 

Long answer? See above.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Swissbob

[publicenemies]

I like the story but everything else just made me log out after i will most likely unsub no you cant haz my stuff lol

 

what is the point of having so many comps if there all the same? why should i run endless heroics for even more comps that are the same? Its all very pointless .

 

As for this alliance thats pointless to i have the most powerful entity in the universe to help me but i need to roganize the imps/rep for what? meh...

[kirorx]

I have a tendency to agree with you as far as the overall storyline. I have been enjoying this expansion, but one thing I dislike about this expansion is the how it does undermine the sith and republic.

 

Once again we are teamed up and fighting a 3rd faction. I remember how glad I was when tython/korriban flashpoints came out. With the dreadmasters defeated, we could finally get back to the Reps vs Imps fighting over control of the galaxy. Fighting did not resume, instead we had an alliance and fast forward 5 years and we are real far from that civil war that made this feel so much like starwars.

 

The Jedi and Sith playing nicely is tiresome. I just wanted to get back to the war but now things have changed even more and once again we team up to fight a 3rd faction, one made entirely made up of Npcs

 

I loved this expansion and its been fun, but lets get back to the powerful sith and republic forces at odds with each other

Edited October 26, 2015 by kirorx

[LordArtemis]

Well, actually, if I were give the opinion that SWTOR is "ruined" in any way, I would say it was when they started the balance crusade about 15 months ago. Starting with borking most of the popular animations by moving the triggers to the front of the ability activation instead of the end, it has been a downhill roll ever since IMO.

 

Now, just in my opinion mind you, most if not all of the classes are pale shadows of their former selves, ESPECIALLY with respect to animations. They do not play anywhere CLOSE to how they did in the past, and in my opinion something important to the core of the game has been lost....eye candy and wow factor.

 

That said, they still lean on story, and despite a short period where they lost their minds, deciding that story was going to take a back seat to other useless pursuits (I'm looking at you GSF)...they seem to be back on track.

 

So, I would have to say most definitely ruined in one way...most classes are no longer fun to play IMO. They are passable, but certainly not fun anymore. But what IS fun and remains so is the storyline.

 

So improved in other ways.

 

Bioware, I know you are going to ignore my pleas, but I would love to the see the day when you STOP borking up the class ability animations. Just stop.

[Drudenfusz]

I have not read the entire post of OP, but I got he was not happy with the story, and I have to say, this new expansion is the first tme in SWTOR it actually feels like Star wars to me! What do I mean? Well...

 

Star Wars was always about family drama for me, and Knights of the Fallen Empire is full of that, and I love it!

 

Also of course with the previous content the world feels much more lived in, which was always a feature of Star Wars too (even though the prequel films felt in that regard a little to sterile).

[Pietrastor]

I have not read the entire post of OP, but I got he was not happy with the story, and I have to say, this new expansion is the first tme in SWTOR it actually feels like Star wars to me! What do I mean? Well...

 

Star Wars was always about family drama for me, and Knights of the Fallen Empire is full of that, and I love it!

 

Also of course with the previous content the world feels much more lived in, which was always a feature of Star Wars too (even though the prequel films felt in that regard a little to sterile).

 

They need to replace Vailyn's voice actress ASAP though

Edited October 26, 2015 by Pietrastor

[annabethchase]

If you're this mad about KotFE, I can't wait to see your reaction to the Knights of Ren in Ep7.

[Sorwen]

A new incredibly randomly and OP as hell faction suddenly invades the galaxy while our characters are in a coma, making the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic, the Empire, and every single accomplishment our characters made either completely pointless and irrelevant.

Not to belittle your post, but you do know the who premise and half the stories in TOR do that very same thing to KotOR. They didn't care the first time I'm not surprised they didn't the second. When you get a bunch of your people from a failed MMO it's not surprising how little they care or are cognitive of what is going on. I've laughed at many streams where the devs didn't know about bugs since beta or restrictions that have been in the game for almost as long.

 

Edit: Finished my thoughts.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Sorwen

[Joonbeams]

I agree with a lot of the OPt, including the part about sticking around because I generally have so much love for the game. But early into KOFTE, I feel that, for me, a lot of the "sticky" appeal is lost: not challenging, gearing is pointless, companion identity is neutered by having all three roles, crafting is meh, etc. I'm cool with the story and I'm fine with level scaling (don't see the big deal), but it's made grinding and gearing irrelevant (even if companions weren't OP). Some things here and there are kinda interesting I suppose. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but this if the first expansion that's just kinda not that fun. But I still prefer this to anything else and will give it time and remain a committed sub.

[Ghouley]

Time is irrelevant, live in the now.

[AlyxDinas]

Can't agree. Sorry.

[Nihilkult]

Didn't play the whole thing yet (I want to finish one class storyline first at least). But the fact a powerful enemy suddenly pops up is not a problem for me. What we did this and that and it should be cast in stone for decades?

Why not? But also , WHY SHOULD IT?

Sometimes you work to do big things and bam, unexpected event makes everything collapse, you're back at the drawing board again, you must solve this problem. Why not? I'm fine with that.

[MaximusRex]

Despite claims to the contrary, it's clear OP hasn't played the stort, or isn't very good at following along, because the OP

claims that nothing matters because Zakuul invaded. Zakuul only invaded because Valkorian died. Valkorian only died because we went to Zakuul.

[Kulyok]

Yeah. Kind of like I feel, only not as strongly. I liked KotFE story, though I agree with the glaring plotholes.

 

For example, from one point of view, the Empire is invaded after the death of Darth Marr, when my character is frozen in carbonite - but that doesn't make sense, because by then Thexan is dead, but we see them together invading Korriban. Sigh. And, yeah, Vitiate and Valkorian seem like two very, very different people. It's like with Revan - even after the explanation, very little sense storywise.

 

Anyway, I returned to my old class stories, making money via GTN and getting used to the new influence grind. I guess things are sort of back to normal for me - I never invested much in Makeb and SoR anyway; KotFE just adds to the list.

[Diviciacus]

Despite claims to the contrary, it's clear OP hasn't played the stort, or isn't very good at following along, because the OP

claims that nothing matters because Zakuul invaded. Zakuul only invaded because Valkorian died. Valkorian only died because we went to Zakuul.

 

Uh, no. The CGI trailer happens before KOTFE starts. Thexan and Arcann destroyed dozens of worlds - including Korriban - before Marr ever went looking.

[Ryusaid]

1 easy reason : Companions are ****ed up

[Swissbob]

Didn't play the whole thing yet (I want to finish one class storyline first at least). But the fact a powerful enemy suddenly pops up is not a problem for me. What we did this and that and it should be cast in stone for decades?

Why not? But also , WHY SHOULD IT?

Sometimes you work to do big things and bam, unexpected event makes everything collapse, you're back at the drawing board again, you must solve this problem. Why not? I'm fine with that.

 

 

Two reasons:

 

1) It makes a poor story if they don't. If you've been following and living in and expanding upon one story for years and years (going all the way back to KOTOR) all of it to be made pointless, then all of those things, are.... well pointless. It ruins those stories. Now, every time I play through KOTOR, or one of the class stories again, it's hard to feel invested at all, as I'm just saying "Well this no longer makes any sense based on who Vitiate is" or "This doesn't matter at all" or "These people/planet/factoin I've saved is doomed in all but a year anyway" etc. Take another look at my Lord of the Rings analogy earlier in the thread:

 

For instance (going back to my Lord of the Rings analogy) let's say in the Lord of the Rings, towards the end of Return of the King, Frodo gets bitten by a mosquito, gets malaria, and dies, and thus his quest fails, and Saruon conquers everything. This could happen in real life... but does that mean it's "valid" and a good story?

 

Hell no.

 

Realistic? Absolutely. But a good story? No.

 

and 2) Even if it did make for a good story, (as it can in certain instances/plots) the way it was handled in this particular case was very, very poor. I'm not going to go into detail again as I've done countless times in this thread, but put shortly it just makes no sense. If Vitiate is emperor of both factions..... and the one is invincible and able to conquer the other two incredibly quickly.... Why did he wait so long? What was the point of waiting hundreds of years to find the right moment to strike with his Sith Empire (and send Revan and Malak etc.) when he had an invincible fleet in his back pocket? Why didn't he invade with both at the same time? What made him stop becoming Sith and become well, whatever type of force user he is? How did he even get Zakuul and the invincible fleet? How did he keep it secret? Why did he want to destroy his own Empire from the beginning? How can he, the most powerful force user in the galaxy, not just simply overpower the will of our characters (especially the non force users)?

 

You see how none of this makes sense? It makes for a bad, bad story in my eyes.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Swissbob

[Swissbob]

If you're this mad about KotFE, I can't wait to see your reaction to the Knights of Ren in Ep7.

 

Well actually.... I'm very excited. Why? Well based on what I've seen in the trailers and what I know of the movie, I'm very confident they will be written well into the Lore in a way that not only makes sense and is believable, but is a good story and doesn't make all of the previous movies both nonsensical and irrelevant.

[Diefenbaker]

The OP faction ex machina isn't exactly a new thing in Star Wars. I vaguely recall this thing called Yuuzhan Vong in the lore, and let's not start on how many Death Star super lasers constantly popped up out of nowhere, not to mention Super Star Destroyers just loitering around on planet surfaces and mysterious Chiss appearing in a cloud of smoke and suddenly having a fleet and almost destroying the New Republic. OP faction ex machina -and then being defeated by the "heroes" (using this term loosely)- is pretty much what Star Wars has lived from for decades, just like Star Trek.

 

That BW basically declared their own writing as nil is also nothing new in Star Wars. I mean, there was this guy named George Lucas, who was somehow involved in this whole Star Wars franchise, who did this some time ago. Shall I say "midichlorians" as the most hair raising example?

 

The emperor weakening his old empire in favor of his new empire, he does somewhat explain it. The Sith empire is a failure, the Republic is a failure. Zakuul is the way things should be, so he thinks.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Diefenbaker