Why I Think KotFE Ruined SWTOR

[Zbljuv]

Pretty sure Republic and Empire didnt work together when dealing with the Hutts and the Dread Masters.

[DarkDisturbed]

Pretty sure Republic and Empire didnt work together when dealing with the Hutts and the Dread Masters.

 

You should probably play through Oricon as an Imperial again then.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DarkDisturbed

[mortenpro]

OP: You had to put a lot of effort to write this post and I appreciate that. I agree with most of what you wrote.

I think BioWare just didn't have an idea on how to continue SW:TOR, on how to extend its existence.

This is all just a mess right now. To be honest, it was from the beginning. They want to create a single player game in MMO world, which isn't working very well. I'm SW:TOR player since beta, but I'm really tired of BioWare's decisions. They literally have no idea what to do. This whole game is so inconsistent. That's how it ends when you want to create a single player game, but at the same time you want to make a lot of money and take advantage of Star Wars fans. You end up with mediocre free-to-play MMO with mediocre story.

(I know that probably i will get banned for saying the truth in this post, but yeah, whatever)

Edited November 2, 2015 by mortenpro

[Ouardajason]

.... having my Pokemon cartoon sssseizures flash back again......... !@

[Juzzyx]

I am luckily able to enjoy the new story despite all its obvious flaws. I think the term for such is "suspension of disbelief" or something like that.

 

I think that Star Wars as a whole is completely flawed. Just watch the movies. Hardly anything makes sense. Watched episode III yesterday again and noticed so many painful plot holes.

 

Yoda fights Sidious. He pushes Sidious back, apparently a hit that was difficult for Sidious to pary. During that Yoda, loses grip and falls to the ground.

 

His conclusion: He failed and has to go to exile.

 

What?! How can this be his conclusion? What's his plan there. Why does he even want to go to exile if he knows what a Sith will do to his beloved republic? That makes absolutely zero sense! He should have come back with better force, for example together with Obi-Wan. But no, without hesitating he decided to vanish and leave all the people to themselves.

 

Or Obi-Wan. He watches the holo of Anakin slaying the younglings in the Jedi Temple. And he then sees how Sidious talks to his new apprentice Vader. And Obi-Wan immediately refers to Sidious whom he knows as Chancellor Palpatine as Emperor. What? One glimpse of a holo recording and he already knows that there is a new Emperor in town?

 

Hardly anything makes sense in Star Wars. That's because it was never told as one story from the beginning to the end. This is a fact one has to accept if one wants to enjoy Star Wars for what it is: popcorn adventures.

 

The prequels have plot holes? Who woulda thunk!?

Edited November 2, 2015 by Juzzyx

[Skettitangles]

If he changed only after consuming life on Ziost, then I fail to see how he had time to create a planet, have adult children, etc, in the few years.

 

Darth Marr clearly explains this in the story... His absences over the centuries are the "when" he had the time to build Zakuul into the Eternal Empire. His change of mind only occurred after consuming Ziost. How you misinterpreted that I don't know. It's just so obvious

[Billupsat]

He's still Vitiate Sue; that character jumped the shark some time ago, and nothing they do now can change that.

 

Would have been better off ending 3.X with a mission chain to discover the dark ritual he used to gain this level of power, and a way to counter the ritual.

 

I never claimed he wasn't still Vitiate Sue, but I'll take this Vitiate Sue over the one we've had for the last four years. I do agree that they jumped the shark on his character, I'm just not sure what you mean by 'ages' ago because its difficult to infer exactly what you mean. Which unfortunately is a side effect of conversing via text. Do you mean that sometime after his inception that they screwed up or are you trying to say that his inception itself was the shark jumping moment. I've always believed it to be the latter myself rather than the former.

[Swissbob]

-snip-

 

Thanks for reading, and typing out such a detailed response!

 

Level sync and visiting old content

[...]

 

I'm totally in agreement here. Level Sync in theory is a great idea, the problem is it is entirely pointless when the content is still impossible to lose when level sync'd. Oh well.... I'm still holding out hope that some balance will be brought to make the game less incredibly easy, though with all the people around who like absolutely no challenge, I don't think it's going to happen.

 

Other story inconsistencies

[...]

 

Great points, some of which I hadn't thought of/noticed. There really is just no continuity in the levels of power among all these various characters.

 

It's especially funny when the separation between the gameplay and the story factors into this. For instance, in my fight with Arcann, I defeat him easily while never dropping below 95% health, and then, all of a sudden, in the cutscene, he easily over powers my character. Again, there's just no continuity.

 

Game changes

[...]

 

I think you bring up a good point here about the Alliance System is kind of rendered pointless with the new watering down of all the companions. Getting a new companion used to be exciting and incredibly worthwhile! They'd have new, interesting dialogue, story content, and even missions, and fill in a vital role on the field of combat, giving you a tank or healer that you crucially needed, or, even if you had that same role in your crew already, they'd have new interesting abilities and equipment opportunities that perhaps made them even better or fill in a specific niche on the battlefield. Not to mention they had unique aptitudes for completing certain crew skills.

 

Now? They are all the same. Same roles, same stats, same abilities. No new dialogue. No new story. They complete crew skills the exact same. I mean.... what is even the point of wanting to get more companions when they are just essentially a new cosmetic appearance, and that's it? Companions now are just empty shells with different appearances. Such a disappointing down grade slated as an "improvement."

[Swissbob]

I am luckily able to enjoy the new story despite all its obvious flaws. I think the term for such is "suspension of disbelief" or something like that.

 

I think that Star Wars as a whole is completely flawed. Just watch the movies. Hardly anything makes sense. Watched episode III yesterday again and noticed so many painful plot holes.

 

[...]

 

Hardly anything makes sense in Star Wars. That's because it was never told as one story from the beginning to the end. This is a fact one has to accept if one wants to enjoy Star Wars for what it is: popcorn adventures.

 

I don't get your logic here.... "Some things don't make sense in the Prequels = Things don't make sense in all of Star Wars = KotFE not making sense is okay"....?

 

I mean.... if you are using the prequels as your metric of "Star Wars as a whole" then yes you are not going to have a flattering opinion. But that's a really flawed approach, as the prequels are near some of the worst the franchise has to offer in the realm of good, coherent story telling.

 

Are there certain things in the Prequels that don't make sense? Of course.

 

Does that mean "hardly anything" makes sense in all of Star Wars? No... Not even close. Your logic here does not compute.

[TUXs]

Wow...good post. I agree with quite a bit of what you've said, and if I was at all interested in the story aspect of things, I'd be even more inclined to agree with you.

[Sarfux]

Wow...good post. I agree with quite a bit of what you've said, and if I was at all interested in the story aspect of things, I'd be even more inclined to agree with you.

 

So you believe it ruined swtor? Really now? All bs aside?

[TUXs]

So you believe it ruined swtor? Really now? All bs aside?

Not at all. But it sure as hell upended things...some good, some bad. I was mostly agreeing with how it makes 1-50 class stories obsolete and takes the entire focus off what "I" consider Star Wars (Rebels vs Imps).

Edited November 2, 2015 by TUXs

[Sarfux]

Not at all. But it sure as hell upended things...some good, some bad. I was mostly agreeing with how it makes 1-50 class stories obsolete and takes the entire focus off what "I" consider Star Wars (Rebels vs Imps).

 

Ah ok.

[Keta]

Lots of colors.

 

That was my primary and follow up reactions as well. Did the op have anything insightful to say?

[Swissbob]

.... having my Pokemon cartoon sssseizures flash back again......... !@

 

That was my primary and follow up reactions as well. Did the op have anything insightful to say?

 

Here is a colorless version, if you guys are actually interested in reading it.

 

EDIT: Added this to second post of thread as well.

 

 

 

Why I think Knights of the Fallen Empire Ruined SWTOR

Everything I Wrote That Wasn't in an Initial Spoiler Tag

 

for the time being, at least)

 

NOTE: I have and will continue to edit this OP based on new ideas and feedback I've been getting from the (quite nice) discussion going on here. Thanks to all who posted their thoughts, whether they agreed or disagreed!

 

After logging into 4.0, testing out the changes, playing through the Fallen Empire storyline twice, and then letting it marinate for a couple days, I’ve come to realize, SWTOR, in all likelihood, has been ruined for me. For someone who has been with the game since its launch, and has put several hundred hours (who knows how much precisely, counting up all of the “/played’s” for all my characters would be a real chore!) into the game, I have a certain emotional connection to it (after all, how can someone devote hundreds of hours to something and not form some sort of attachment to it), and now so suddenly I realize why there are so many people who feel the need to make “I’m canceling my sub” posts. Well, I’ll try my best to try not to do that, as, after all, I’m likely not cancelling my sub nor leaving the game outright. This (very, very long) post will be a review of sorts of Fallen Empire, and why I think it ruined SWTOR for me.

 

I know what kind of reaction these super long posts usually get (sarcasm, apathy, or simply none), and I go forward with the assumption very few will actually read what I have to say.

NOTE: Much of what I have to say here is a compilation of my inputs in another thread over on the Story and Lore section, which you can view here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=843340&pp=10

OTHER NOTE: TL;DR’s are available at the end of each Spoiler Tag.

FINAL NOTE: Spoilers, of course. I will be talking about class stories, expansion stories, etc.

Without further ado, I’ll begin.

 

 

#1 The Skippable Preface: Why do I play SWTOR in the first place?

 

Put simply, I love Star Wars. I’ve been a fan since the original trilogy, but I was more a participant in the cultural phenomenon than a true diehard fan. I loved the movies of course, but I didn’t, for instance, have Star Wars posters, memorabilia, books, countless video, board, and card games, and toys infesting my house like I do now. You know what sparked that transition from the casual to the hardcore? Interestingly enough, it began with Bioware with Knights of the Old Republic. However my fandom didn’t fully emerge from the cocoon until Obsidian’s sequel, The Sith Lords. Maybe it’s the decade of nostalgia that now separates me from my first play through of those games, but I view them with a sense of legend. To me (who had ignored decades of EU Books that likely could’ve started that transition years earlier) they evolved Star Wars from the setting of some damn good films (and some mediocre ones) to a mythology whose size, versatility and capacity for “epicness” is, in my opinion, unrivaled by any fictional creation of modern mankind. I love Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, Star Trek, and (insert many fantasy and sci-fi book series here), but, in my mind, they do not compare.

 

So, naturally, I was going to play SWTOR. Another Star Wars game, set in the Old Republic era made by Bioware with a multi-hundred million dollar budget? I was bursting to get in the door. I was there in the beta, early access, founder title and all that jazz. I played the game for years, and while to some extent I was mildly disappointed in its lacking of KOTOR qualities, I didn’t listen to much of the complaints people had about the game. After all, no dual-spec, limited guild functionality, copy and paste combat system etc. etc. etc.…. That didn’t matter to someone like me. I had never played WoW (or any other major MMO), and didn’t really care too much about the quality or quantity of traditional MMO features. I was here simply for the Star Wars Story.

Jedi vs. Sith! Empire vs. Republic! The mystery of the Sith Emperor! The return of Revan (as divisive as that was)! This is what kept my money and time flowing into SWTOR.

 

Some of you can see where this is going, I’m sure.

TL;DR Version: I play SWTOR because it’s Star Wars, and for the Story.

 

#2 The Meat and Potatoes: Why do I think the game is ruined?

#2a The Meat and Potatoes Part One: It’s all for naught.

 

In case you missed it, I play SWTOR for Star Wars, and for the story. Accordingly, I feel like Knights of the Fallen Empire ruined SWTOR’s story, and its Star Wars elements, and therefore has essentially destroyed my reason to play the game. But how did KotFE ruin SWTOR’s story? Well, let me explain.

 

First, and in my opinion, most important, it made everything that has happened thus far not only in the entirety of SWTOR, but even going back to KOTOR totally and utterly pointless and irrelevant. That might sound like a stretch, but I really don’t think it is, and here’s why.

 

Throughout the history of SWTOR, we’ve seen our characters face hardship, grow and develop, and ultimately triumph in the face of opposition. We’ve seen them form relationships with characters, grow their own powerbases, protect planets from utter destruction or dominion of the Empire, conquer planets in the name of the Empire, protect their own factions from utter collapse, and even, on a few occasions, saved the galaxy as a whole!

 

I (and I’m sure many others) have grown attached to our characters and their respective factions that we have spent years with. Now, all of that has been totally and seemingly irrevocably undone.

 

A new incredibly randomly and OP as hell faction suddenly invades the galaxy while our characters are in a coma, making the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic, the Empire, and every single accomplishment our characters made either completely pointless and irrelevant. Congratulations, Bioware… in my eyes you just made years of your own writing meaningless. In a tragic turn of events, everything I’ve done through my characters in this universe has been destroyed…. None of it matters. My companions, power base, and entire faction is gone, all because of an incredibly sudden and somehow secret faction that just randomly appeared.

 

Kephess could have won, Revan could have won, the Hutts could have won, the Dread Masters could have won, and our characters could never have even existed and the galaxy would be totally the same: controlled by The New OP Empire.

 

Ultimately, everything that has happened in SWTOR has become one big farce of pointlessness. Jedi? Sith? The Light and Dark Side of the Force? You know, STAR WARS at its very core? They've all become powerless and irrelevant.

 

Bear with me here, as I use an analogy: What if this happened in Lord of the Rings? You've watched Frodo grow and change through his long and arduous journey, and he is on the verge of destroying the ring at Mount Doom, all the while a cast of memorable characters (Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, etc.) and the men of the west fight valiantly against the evil forces of Sauron. Suddenly, Frodo (and by extension the audience) enters a coma, only to wake up 5 years later to find an army of invincible Valkyrie have invaded Middle Earth, defeated Rohan, Gondor, the Dwarves, the Elves, and Sauron and his horde of minions to establish a new Empire. It would kind of defeat the purpose of Frodo's quest, and therefore the Lord of the Rings Books themselves.

 

Now, you may be thinking: Well, it was already pointless! We already know the Republic falls to Palpatine, and then the Rebels win, etc. and so forth!

 

But there is a key difference: time.

 

The difference being is that Palpatine and friends is millennia in the future. Our characters are long, long dead, so of course their accomplishments have faded in importance. In this expansion, our characters are very much alive, and in the prime of their importance, only to see their accomplishments, relationships, powerbases, and factions, and ultimately most everything they've been working towards obliterated instantly in front of their faces.

 

Using my Lord of the Rings analogy, if we knew Sauron returned 2 thousand years later, that doesn't mean Frodo's quest was pointless, as his destruction of Sauron lasted for 2 thousand years. However, if we see Sauron get defeated by a random army of Valkyrie before Frodo even finishes his quest, then it is all pointless because he didn't even enact much change at all.

 

Same thing here in SWTOR. We see our character's grow and change, and work towards a steady goal (the success of their faction most commonly), only to see it be erased randomly while they're in a coma just moments after it happened.

 

Put simply, a few thousand years of impact means a lot, but a year or two doesn't mean much at all.

Ultimately, and put dramatically, Valkorion’s destruction of the Sith Empire and Republic is directly analogous to Bioware’s destruction of the relevance of their own story.

 

 

You might also be saying: Well, our characters are still alive, because of what they did, therefore it isn't all pointless! Well, you are somewhat right, but that only lends to new meaning being created in the future:the deeds and the inherent value of our actions in the past are still completely erased.

 

To use another analogy: Let's say you founded a nation, and saved 100,000 people in the process. But the next day, an infinite army of tanks rolls, killing all 100,000 people and destroying and conquering the country, but you alone were able to escape.

 

Does your physical survival mean that your actions in saving those people who died the next day and founding that country that was destroyed the next day matter at all in the grand scheme of things?

 

No, they're all still dead, and the country is still destroyed.

 

If the Eternal Empire's invasion actually was because of the actions that came before it, it could've been a good story. But instead, the Eternal Empire's invasion happens totally separate from what came before it, making everything that came before it pointless.

 

But what about the story still to come? Well, it’s hard to feel invested and care at all, given that everything I’ve invested and cared about before has been basically destroyed. Everything that’s happened…. Even going back all the way to KOTOR (what a tragedy that is), or hell, the Great Hyperspace War has been made irrelevant in favor of the random and all too uninteresting “Eternal Empire,” shattering my emotional connection and interest in general.

 

TL;DR Version: By destroying the Republic, Jedi, Sith, and Empire, our characters actions and history has been made irrelevant, destroying any interest or emotional investment the game had acquired over the years.

 

 

#2b The Meat and Potatoes Part Two: The Puppet Paradox (ie None of this makes any sense!).

 

 

There’s another insidious aspect to this however, and that is this: the story makes absolutely zero sense as presented by Bioware.

 

See, just because things got erased doesn't necessarily mean the story is ruined. Take a look at things like Game of Thrones or certain tragedies. Things get erased and made irrelevant, and yet it's still a very good story. Why? Because everything that happens makes sense, and the climax, even if it doesn't go the protagonist's way, is still a satisfying culmination of long running conflicts that play out the way the do ) due to key components of things like the character's choices, character's flaws, major plot components, etc. KotFE is missing this entirely. What does any of what my Smuggler did, any of what my Bounty Hunter did, any of what my Jedi Consular did have to do with the invasion of the Infinite Fleet?

 

In KotFE, it's not just that previous things are made irrelevant, it's also the fact that they were ultimately sacrificed for a story that is nonsensical and unsatisfying, and one that really ultimately has very little to do with anything that came before it, making the whole thing seem pointless.

 

So.... why do I think the story makes no sense?

 

Well, It simply makes no sense that Valkorion and Vitiate are the same person. Valkorion and the Eternal Empire run directly opposing Vitiate and his storyline in what I call the “Puppet Paradox.” The Puppet Paradox is thus: Vitiate is simultaneously the puppet-master, and the puppet.

 

To explain, we must begin at the beginning of Vitiate’s story: The Great Hyperspace War. For those who don’t know, this was essentially a giant conflict with the early Sith and Jedi, which Vitiate was alive and part of as a minor Sith Lord. Eventually the Sith were defeated, and Vitiate and a cadre of Sith retreated outside the known Galaxy (to Dromuund Kaas) to lick their wounds, recuperate, and ultimately seek revenge.

 

Fast forward 1000 years, skipping Revan, KOTORs 1 and 2, Exar Kun, Mandalorion Wars, etc. to the return of Vitiate Empire (the ‘Return’ trailer). There’s a war between them and the Republic/Jedi, and then SWTOR as we know it takes place.

 

And then, Knights of the Fallen Empire.

 

You mean to tell me Vitiate has *another* secret Empire!? From where? Since when? How!? This one is even more powerful than the other one? In fact so powerful that it can conquer the Republic and Sith Empire both incredibly easily within the matter of a year or two!?

 

Hold up…. What!? Here is where the Puppet Paradox comes into play. Vitiate is simultaneously the puppet (his Sith Empire invading the Republic to weaken both of them) and the puppet master (the Eternal Empire arriving to conquer both).

 

Why the hell does he invade the galaxy with his secret Empire so that he can ultimately weaken his own Empire so that his *other* secret and even more powerful Empire can conquer his old Empire…? What? Why doesn’t he just invade with BOTH of his Empire’s and end the war (or slaughter) that much faster?

 

If the answer is because his new Empire (the Eternal Empire) wasn’t ready until very recently, why didn’t he just wait a few decades so he didn’t have to destroy his Sith Empire? He’s already waited over a millennium, so a couple decades should be like a blink for Vitiate.

 

Overall there are just so many unanswered questions that cause all of the various plots Bioware has put forth to compound upon one another into a cyclone of nonsense. Why did he let the Empire fail if he had an invincible fleet? Why didn't he combine his empires? Why did he wait until just now to invade with his "better" Empire? Why did he need the original Empire at all if he had a better one? How did he get Zakuul? How did he get the Infinite Fleet? For how long did he have these? How did he keep all of this secret from everyone in the galaxy? Why, if he is a Sith, did he suddenly turn his back on the Sith Code and the Sith Empire in favor for what ever kind of Force user he is now? If his goal was to just cause as much prolonged conflict in the galaxy, why did he suddenly choose to end it by conquering everything so swiftly with the Infinite Fleet?

 

The great tragedy here is that even KOTOR itself is rendered nonsensical.What was the point of waiting for over a millenium, seducing Revan and Malak to create a proxy war, and then fighting the Republic for several decades with his one Empire when he had the capability to conquer the entire galaxy in a year or two with his invincible fleet and *other * secret Empire?

 

Ultimately, as Bioware has presented it, the story makes no sense, and is going to need some major plot voodoo to make it all make sense.

 

TL;DR Version: Vitiate and Valkorion being the same person doesn’t make sense. Why did he have his secret Empire invade the galaxy so it would be weakened so his other even more secret and powerful Empire could defeated his other Empire? In other (but similar) words, the story makes no sense as it is presented.

 

 

EDIT: #2c The Meat and Potatoes Part Three: Goodbye Star Wars.

 

 

So, if you’ve read up to this point, you might very well disagree with my assessments of the story. You could see the story as making total and utter sense, as well as not making everything that came before it pointless.

 

And yet, even if you convinced me of those two things, deep down I would still feel the game was, on some extent ruined, and here’s why.

 

Ultimately, I feel that the core feeling of “Star Wars” has just taken a large hit. This new storyline doesn’t feel like Star Wars to me. Why? Well...

 

In my eyes, Star Wars, at its very core, is the conflict between the Light and Dark Side of the Force. This struggle, which most commonly manifests as Jedi vs. Sith, or Empire vs. Republic/Rebels, is present in most every major Star Wars plot throughout the decades of its existence. And, even if a conflict in the lore wasn’t directly between a light side force user and a dark side force user, it still took place in the context of a galaxy as a whole divided between the two sides of the force.

 

And this is largely why I’ve stuck with SWTOR this long. Even though alot of the plots weren’t unique, or particularly well written, or all together very good, for the most part they totally nailed the feeling of Star Wars. And that’s all I ever needed.

 

(Note: There are also plenty of kick-*** and awesomely written stories that are unique and very good in this game too, just want to make that clear!)

 

Even with the Revan plotline, where the two factions came together, it still felt ultimately like Star Wars because at least the Jedi and Sith were still major players in the conflict.

 

But now? Goodbye Sith. Goodbye Empire. Goodbye Republic. Goodbye Jedi. They’ve all been swept to irrelevance by a galactic power that Bioware just (seemingly randomly) created that is indeed so powerful it can defeat everything Star Wars within the space of a few moments in the game. Hell, if this non-Jedi, non-Sith power is so superior, yet doesn’t rely on either the Light Side or Dark Side, then why the hell does that dichotomy even exist? If a single force user who is neither Sith nor Jedi can totally and swiftly conquer all the Sith and all the Jedi, then the whole Light side vs. Dark side struggle that has been going on for millennia past and future seem no longer crucial to the Star Wars Universe.

 

You see how this kind of goes against the lore of Star Wars? The Light and Dark Sides of the Force are supposed to be the most powerful things in the Galaxy, not the "Zakuul Side" or whatever it's called.

 

I want to see the pure hatred of the Sith go up against the calm clairvoyance of the Jedi! I want to see the imperfect democracy of the Republic face off against the ruthless fascism of the Empire! These are the stories we’ve had, and these are the stories I want to see more of, not some random “Eternal Empire” face off against the generic “Outlander.”

 

TL;DR By destroying the Sith and Jedi, the classic Light vs. Dark side story of Star Wars is erased, and the classic Star Wars feeling with it.

 

 

 

#3 The Extras: What about things that aren’t the Story?

 

 

So that’s a lot of talk about the story, and although the story means almost everything to me, what about the other stuff? SWTOR has a lot more in it than interactive cut scenes, after all. So, how did the changes in these parts of the game fare? Well, I’m not so qualified to say, as I am not as emotionally invested and as such haven’t put as much thought or time into it, but I’ll attempt to give my feedback.

 

First, and most importantly for me, the companions. This, in my eyes, was the biggest (besides what I’ve talked about in the Meat and Potatoes) failure of the new expansion. You know what was cool about the companions? They were unique! Everyone had their own strengths and weaknesses, their own cool abilities, and you could even give them their own cool stats (which brings forth a whole new set of strengths and weaknesses). Now, they are all the same Watch my menacing Dashade Khem Val stand on the brink of the action and toss heals in my direction. Witness 2V-R8 tank Darth Baras while my Sith Warrior watches in amusement. Gone are the days of my efforts paying off as I call up my geared as hell Corso to tank for my guild friends when we need a tank.

 

This lends well into my next problem: Somehow, the game has been made even easier… To the point of the game becoming a complete and utter joke. Need a super powerful companion to complete the game for you? Press a button. Need a level 60 to escape the hassle of playing the game? Press a button. Is Arcann proving to be a tense and close fight? Pop an emergency kolto station to heal to maximum health. Yes yes, I know some people want to just play the story and not have to deal with other things (me of all people should know this) but damn…. Don’t people want to have some sense of achievement when they win? Shouldn’t taking down Arcann, or Baras, or Thanaton, or any other boss give you a sense of accomplishment! Seeing your level ding to 60 should grant a sense of reward, instead you say “Well all those hours of playing gave me something I could have just pressed a button to receive instantly.” I don’t know…. I know I could be wrong on this cause people seem to love these changes making the game so laughably easy it’s a joke…. But deep down I remember the days of there being *some* necessity to use medpacs, or your heroic moment, or hell even dying and having to try again, as I frown in boredom as C2-N2 wins the game for me.

 

The New Alliance Conversation was also a disappointment, but in no way a game breaker. When I first saw it (being as huge a fan as I am of KOTOR 1 & 2) I was really excited. That conversation system is much more conducive to more in-depth and therefore more fulfilling and interesting conversations. HOWEVER that's only the case because it allows more options in dialouge than just three and therefore branching conversations, thus more unique for each character and more compelling and in-depth. However that's not the case here... You only have 3-4 dialogue options anyway, and each one only gives you a short answer with limited ability to create a new path for the conversation. What was the point of including this new interface if conversations are going to work the exact same way? (Roughly 3 responses, each gets a similar answer each time anyway). And I didn't realize how spoiled I'd become by having full VO for my character. A lack of PC voice over in KOTOR 1 & 2 never bothered me, but now that PC VO in SWTOR, it's absence is jarring and a negative overall, and I think that's because of the lack of continuity. I'm willing to sacrifice my character's voice for more in depth and fulfilling conversations (although I'm probably in the minority there), but if we don't get those than what's the point? It's only negative, bringing nothing positive except cheap nostalgia.

 

What else? Level sync. Hell, crucify me right now, but I actually LIKE level sync. It makes lower level content interesting via a little added challenge! Or…. Well it would if there was any challenge present in the game. In any case, I feel it’s a step in the right direction, but totally contradicts all the other changes they’ve been making to make the game easy as hell.

 

Crafting I’ve never been much of a part of, so I can’t comment on that really.

Really, I’m pretty exhausted at this point, so I’m just going to wrap this whole thing up.

 

TL;DR Version: The game’s too easy (surprise surprise), companions are no longer unique, there’s no sense of accomplishment in general.

 

 

 

#4 The End: Is SWTOR over for me? Here’s the really tragic part. Is SWTOR over for me? Well…..

 

 

No.

 

Unfortunately not. I’ve simply invested too much time, money, and most importantly, valuable emotional attachment to not only SWTOR, but KOTOR and the Old Republic Era of Star Wars as a whole to give up now. I simply, for my own sense of personal closure, need to see where the story is going. So, I will keep coming back, likely until SWTOR’s funding gets cut and its servers get shut down for good. After years of playing, hundreds of dollars spent, and countless fond memories of stock striking a Sith Lord I just pulled out of the air, hunting down a Jedi through the snows of Hoth, or flirting with every girl in sight with my dashing Smuggler, SWTOR’s hooks still reside in me. So, I’m along for the ride. For better or worse, I’ll be here for the years to come.

 

So, I have no free stuff to give… I’m holding onto it like a miser who’s near death.

 

TL;DR Version: No. I’ll still be around, I’ve invested too much to give up on it so suddenly.

 

 

#5 Afterword: Why everything I just wrote is wrong.

 

If there’s anyone still reading at this point, well, thanks I suppose. I wrote this mainly for my own purposes, but am elated if anyone took the time to read it.

 

So, let me try to end on a positive note, and escape from the usual doom and gloom of the forums.

There’s a possibility that everything I wrote here is totally and utterly wrong, and oh how happy I would be if that was the case. Knights of the Fallen Empire isn’t even over yet, after all! And SWTOR itself likely has years to go. Throughout all of that, the story easily could be resolved in a satisfying and awesome way. Who knows. Certainly not me.

 

Ultimately, I'm not saying the story of SWTOR is destroyed beyond repair. All I'm saying is that I feel Bioware seems to have dug themselves into quite a large plot hole, and it's going to take a very good plot rope to escape from... And I don't like the look of that plot shovel they are holding.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Swissbob

[PhillipJokarr]

OP feels how lots of the player characters in the game feel about KOTFE.

 

Exactly how it's supposed to make them feel.

 

Like they've been played.

Like their previous achievements were just a prelude to losing everything.

Like their Star Wars galaxy has been torn asunder and thrown into chaos.

 

The expansion has obviously done it's job well.

[Vexpandem]

OP feels how lots of the player characters in the game feel about KOTFE.

 

Exactly how it's supposed to make them feel.

 

Like they've been played.

Like their previous achievements were just a prelude to losing everything.

Like their Star Wars galaxy has been torn asunder and thrown into chaos.

 

The expansion has obviously done it's job well.

 

Sounds like every other MMO expansion I've played. *glares at Warlords of Draenor*

 

Personally, my issues so far with 4.0 have been the issues I've had with the game all along. There is a clash between the MMO aspect of several people working together, and the Bioware power-fantasy of you being the sole hero of the story. Sure, you can party together for it, but you'd prolly only do that with close friends, not gather a PUG and run it like a flashpoint. This does not have the fun of doing a mission together with friends (like challenging enemies that require coordination), or even the fun of the usual Bioware storytelling (witty lines from memorable characters). It tries too hard to be everything and can't be anything instead.

[Max_Killjoy]

I never claimed he wasn't still Vitiate Sue, but I'll take this Vitiate Sue over the one we've had for the last four years. I do agree that they jumped the shark on his character, I'm just not sure what you mean by 'ages' ago because its difficult to infer exactly what you mean. Which unfortunately is a side effect of conversing via text. Do you mean that sometime after his inception that they screwed up or are you trying to say that his inception itself was the shark jumping moment. I've always believed it to be the latter myself rather than the former.

 

I've never been a fan of the "ultravillain" like Vitiate was even in the original class/planet story arcs. However, through all the different threads he become beatable and the JK got to finish him off. Or rather, that should have been the end of Vitiate.

 

The end of "vanilla" should have been the end of Vitiate.

 

Instead, we've just had to endure more of his inane gloating about the insignificance of everyone else and how no one can comprehend his power or all his plans and blah blah blah. If I wanted that crap out of villains, I'd be watching Dragonball.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Swissbob]

OP feels how lots of the player characters in the game feel about KOTFE.

 

Exactly how it's supposed to make them feel.

 

Like they've been played.

Like their previous achievements were just a prelude to losing everything.

Like their Star Wars galaxy has been torn asunder and thrown into chaos.

 

The expansion has obviously done it's job well.

 

There is a line between conveying a sense of destruction and loss to the audience while maintaining their interest in a good and satisfying continuation of the story, and just totally throwing everything that happened into the trash to create a brand new story. See what I said about this in the OP:

 

See, just because things got erased doesn't necessarily mean the story is ruined. Take a look at things like Game of Thrones or certain tragedies. Things get erased and made irrelevant, and yet it's still a very good story. Why? Because everything that happens makes sense, and the climax, even if it doesn't go the protagonist's way, is still a satisfying culmination of long running conflicts that play out the way they do due to key components of things like the character's choices, character's flaws, major plot components, etc. KotFE is missing this entirely. What does any of what my Smuggler did, any of what my Bounty Hunter did, any of what my Jedi Consular did have to do with the invasion of the Infinite Fleet?

 

In KotFE, it's not just that previous things are made irrelevant, it's also the fact that they were ultimately sacrificed for a story that is nonsensical and unsatisfying, and one that really ultimately has very little to do with anything that came before it, making the whole thing seem pointless.

 

Protagonists can lose (causing negative emotion in the audience) and still have it be an interesting, compelling, and overall good story. But their loss has to be connected to their actions in some way.... or at least relevant to something in the entirety of their story thus far or even if it's not either of those.... at least the protagonist has to struggle against it.... there needs to be a conflict. KotFE fails in all of these: It's out of the blue, totally unrelated to any of my character's actions (ie it's not their own doing in some way or another), and there was absolutely nothing that our character's could do to stop it.... in fact we didn't even see it happen! We were in a coma!

 

This is a good beginning to a story, but as a culmination of years and years of story telling? It's an insulting deus ex machina that makes everything before it pointless and irrelevant.

 

One thing that I'll say is that this could potentially work for the Jedi Knight in KotFE (since so much of his/her story was dedicated to killing the Emperor, and failing) however it is still kind of poor because the story doesn't pan out in the logic/continuity department, and it still is erasing a whole lot of stories that it doesn't need to. But for the other classes.... it completely fails in my eyes.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Swissbob

[Neptunius]

Been on a break and come back to this crap, i been paying for this since beta ended and yes i was in beta, i guess i should Never have kept my sub payment and just stoped when i took the break.

 

Hope they will enjoy the lack of payment from my ccard from now on. RIP SWTOR.

[Keta]

Here is a colorless version, if you guys are actually interested in reading it.

 

Thank you. some color is good. Imitating the rainbow can be glaring and distracting from your points.

[Blackbird]

This is a good beginning to a story, but as a culmination of years and years of story telling? It's an insulting deus ex machina that makes everything before it pointless and irrelevant.

 

In a way, this is ironically appropriate, considering that the Disney acquisition of the Star Wars franchise has likewise made "years and years of story telling" "pointless and irrelevant" through the decanonization of all the works of the Expanded Universe. So I suppose that KotFE is just SWTOR's way of following suit with the parent franchise.

 

This doesn't mean that it is a good thing.

[Einzel]

It's obvious that bioware make this story to to create a more simple environement that will be less expensive to develop!

 

-> No more class story

-> No more compagnion story

-> No more new companion customization

-> No more voice (for the player) during alt quest

 

= Less development, less dubbing, less tory writting...

 

But yes it's the begining of the end for sure...

[Anaesha]

It's obvious that bioware make this story to to create a more simple environement that will be less expensive to develop!

 

-> No more class story

-> No more compagnion story

-> No more new companion customization

-> No more voice (for the player) during alt quest

 

= Less development, less dubbing, less tory writting...

 

But yes it's the begining of the end for sure...

 

People said the same thing when RotHC came out, they said the same thing when GSF came out, They said the same thing when GSH came out, they said the same thing when SoR came out, and now they are saying it with KotFE.

 

I think this is a case of people thinking if they say it enough times it will eventually come true.

[TX_Angel]

People said the same thing when RotHC came out, they said the same thing when GSF came out, They said the same thing when GSH came out, they said the same thing when SoR came out, and now they are saying it with KotFE.

 

I think this is a case of people thinking if they say it enough times it will eventually come true.

 

Eventually it will come true....

 

What they meant, or I hope they meant, is this is the beginning of the end of the way things were. SWTOR is clearly going to be a different game going forward.