Max_Killjoy Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 If you keep insulting a group of people by using generic terms and broad definitions, wanna know something? You deserve the cat calling you get coming back at you. The dude just kept going about how bad PvP is and how bad PvPers are, kinda sick of hearing it. How would he know, he's never DONE IT BEFORE. To be clear, my statement was only, and exactly, as broad as yours. You are crying now, they are feasting. Have fun with the thought of that. And yet they wonder why no one wants to even try PvP... The "they" in my sentence would be the same "they" you refer to as "feasting" on others tears. So -- which "they" did you mean? Which "they" is feasting on the tears of others? Because frankly, the PvP "community" has a reputation for that sort of thing, for taking enjoyment from the negative emotional responses of others, for a reason. And yes, I have actually done PvP, in other games, and it's far too often toxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 One would think that the people who love PvP would hate forcing non-PvP people into PvP matches more than anyone else. Why would they? If 1 out of 10 or even 1 out of every 100 decides that PvP can be fun it will benefit that part of the game. There are people that are under geared/inexperienced in most games anyway. No one is being forced, they are being enticed to give it a try if they want special rewards that aren't required to play or for their story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Why would they? If 1 out of 10 or even 1 out of every 100 decides that PvP can be fun it will benefit that part of the game. There are people that are under geared/inexperienced in most games anyway. No one is being forced, they are being enticed to give it a try if they want special rewards that aren't required to play or for their story. That remains to be seen. It's possible Forex and/or Pierce may have a role in further chapters of KOTFE. Then what? Does it really becomes "optional" to get them? It's the same situation as the multiplayer in Mass Effect 3. We were promised it wouldn't be required and yet the best endings were locked behind an EMS score that could only be reached by playing said multiplayer (The difference being that in ME3, it's coop and it's actually fun to play for a while even for a story player because the strategies and general tactics are similar to story.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I just had a brilliant idea! What if, instead of having to chose between force PvP and an unfinished quest/permanent Alliance Alert, I could tell M1-4X/Pierce that I don't want them? Just like Xalek? That way, I do lose a companion, but it's my choice if I get or not. I doesn't leave the sour taste of an unfinished quest. That is, if I can't go hunting for major Imp/Pub target in PvE instead. Xalek didn't quite make it on one of my runs. The light saber colonoscopy just didn't end well...sniff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 That remains to be seen. It's possible Forex and/or Pierce may have a role in further chapters of KOTFE. Then what? Does it really becomes "optional" to get them? It's the same situation as the multiplayer in Mass Effect 3. We were promised it wouldn't be required and yet the best endings were locked behind an EMS score that could only be reached by playing said multiplayer (The difference being that in ME3, it's coop and it's actually fun to play for a while even for a story player because the strategies and general tactics are similar to story.) Anything is subject to change so if Forex or Pierce are required, in the future, by all characters for further, non-PvP, chapters then maybe there is a valid complaint. But they aren't now so I don't see the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 To be clear, my statement was only, and exactly, as broad as yours. The "they" in my sentence would be the same "they" you refer to as "feasting" on others tears. So -- which "they" did you mean? Which "they" is feasting on the tears of others? Because frankly, the PvP "community" has a reputation for that sort of thing, for taking enjoyment from the negative emotional responses of others, for a reason. And yes, I have actually done PvP, in other games, and it's far too often toxic. They only enjoy it if you let them know it aggravates you. If you don't show any negative emotion, you will never draw negative responses from people. I've been trolled lots of times in matches, never once did I let on that it bothered me and guess what, if they don't get a rise out of you, they stop. It helps stop sooner if you are silent and just kill them instead like business as usual. Trust me, most of the people running their mouths are not good at all, if they were good PvPers they wouldn't need to talk. As my old guild leader used to tell me, "You know what I love about you, you talk **** all the time but you always bring it." Of course me talking **** has earned me the reputation of being the anti-troll on my server, because most of the people I talk **** to, are people that troll others. Oh and since companions are basically cosmetic items, I think we can compare it to Wings of the Architect. So if anyone has any issues doing PvP to obtain said companion, I will be on Jung Ma and will glad group with you and carry you through the 12-15 matches it'll take (based on my win-loss record). I'll do it for just 1 million credits even, which is a deal compared to what getting WotA will cost you and companions are infinitely more useful than another mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) They only enjoy it if you let them know it aggravates you. If you don't show any negative emotion, you will never draw negative responses from people. I've been trolled lots of times in matches, never once did I let on that it bothered me and guess what, if they don't get a rise out of you, they stop. It helps stop sooner if you are silent and just kill them instead like business as usual. Trust me, most of the people running their mouths are not good at all, if they were good PvPers they wouldn't need to talk. So are you saying that their behavior is fine, and if they get a reaction, it's the fault of the person they're targeting? Edited October 24, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiablos Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Oh and since companions are basically cosmetic items, I think we can compare it to Wings of the Architect. So if anyone has any issues doing PvP to obtain said companion, I will be on Jung Ma and will glad group with you and carry you through the 12-15 matches it'll take (based on my win-loss record). I'll do it for just 1 million credits even, which is a deal compared to what getting WotA will cost you and companions are infinitely more useful than another mount. So much this. The sooner people start thinking of companions as cosmetic items the sooner cool things can start being done with them. What about an awesome PvP companion for those who finish high in ranked PvP (not sure what the levels are as I don't PvP on this game) What if Arcann was an ultra rare drop from whatever Hardmode Operation they release with Chapter 16? If there are no plans for him to be a companion why not give those top level PvE boys a bonus for waiting a year and a half for new content. Maybe with the caveat that if you recruited him Lana/Koth/Senya/Shan would leave you (a la the Alistair decision in DAO) What if they created a very cool skinned Jedi companion that was gated behind a 45 minute jump puzzle that if you fell you'd have to start all over again. Every time you dropped he would say "Do, or do not, there is no try." Or a million other things they could do with companions now that they're basically a shell with a pretty customization (kind of like a supermodel). Ultra rare mounts are a thing in almost all MMO's. They're gated behind all sorts of different barriers, companions could be that as x100. Let go your entitlements. Learn to earn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiablos Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 . Oh and since companions are basically cosmetic items, I think we can compare it to Wings of the Architect. So if anyone has any issues doing PvP to obtain said companion, I will be on Jung Ma and will glad group with you and carry you through the 12-15 matches it'll take (based on my win-loss record). I'll do it for just 1 million credits even, which is a deal compared to what getting WotA will cost you and companions are infinitely more useful than another mount. Follow up. Imp or Pub on Jung Ma? Because I have an Imperial Agent I'd kind of like to recruit Pierce on. Wouldn't mind having shepherd for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) So much this. The sooner people start thinking of companions as cosmetic items the sooner cool things can start being done with them. What about an awesome PvP companion for those who finish high in ranked PvP (not sure what the levels are as I don't PvP on this game) What if Arcann was an ultra rare drop from whatever Hardmode Operation they release with Chapter 16? If there are no plans for him to be a companion why not give those top level PvE boys a bonus for waiting a year and a half for new content. Maybe with the caveat that if you recruited him Lana/Koth/Senya/Shan would leave you (a la the Alistair decision in DAO) What if they created a very cool skinned Jedi companion that was gated behind a 45 minute jump puzzle that if you fell you'd have to start all over again. Every time you dropped he would say "Do, or do not, there is no try." Or a million other things they could do with companions now that they're basically a shell with a pretty customization (kind of like a supermodel). Ultra rare mounts are a thing in almost all MMO's. They're gated behind all sorts of different barriers, companions could be that as x100. Let go your entitlements. Learn to earn. If it's for new companions, I'm kinda ok with this. You don't see me complaining about the Akk Dog, do you? Although I suppose I could/should at the price it's sold on the GTN, half the price of a guild ship, no matter how rarer it is, is too much. It's the idea of locking existing companions with a potential story impact that I'm not okay with. If it were to be that Forex and/or Pierce could have even a scene in the coming chapters, then I'll keep considering gating them behind Warzones to be a mistake. If they don't, just give me an opt out for both of them, so I can refuse to get them, get rid of the quest, the alert and them as contacts. I don't actually oppose your idea of offering "new" companions as reward for side activities, just don't pick existing companions to do it. Use Akk Dogs, Nexus, Arcann, Malgus (If he is deader than dead), Valkorion, or whatever. Don't put major story companions in there. Edited October 24, 2015 by Leklor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 It needs to be changed. No excuses. Why force players who have no general concept of PVP to engage in a WZ when people who do PVP are going to be literally psycho over their presence? Fostering an even more toxic environment is not exactly intelligent. Why do people keep using "force" to describe the quest? You can get the companion on the characters that orignally had them without PvP. If you want, there is no need, the companion on additioinal characters you'll need to do some PvP. P.S. There are, and have always been, people in warzones that don't have a clue so you may have a lot of company if you choose to do the PvP to get the companion on additonal characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiablos Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 If it's for new companions, I'm kinda ok with this. You don't see me complaining about the Akk Dog, do you? Although I suppose I could/should at the price it's sold on the GTN, half the price of a guild ship, no matter how rarer it is, is too much. It's the idea of locking existing companions with a potential story impact that I'm not okay with. If it were to be that Forex and/or Pierce could have even a scene in the coming chapters, then I'll keep considering gating them behind Warzones to be a mistake. If they don't, just give me an opt out for both of them, so I can refuse to get them, get rid of the quest, the alert and them as contacts. I don't actually oppose your idea of offering "new" companions as reward for side activities, just don't pick existing companions to do it. Use Akk Dogs, Nexus, Arcann, Malgus (If he is deader than dead), Valkorion, or whatever. Don't put major story figure in there. That makes sense. And they should allow people to turn them down and get rid of the quest. I had such high hopes that 4.0 would rid me of those stupid Ilum quests in my log...nope. The thing I'll say about existing companions is technically they are not on the characters you have to PvP for. For Troopers and Warriors they come without incident. The other classes never had them, so they wouldn't be existing companions. Furthermore having them split in factions like that is even more assurance that they won't reappear in the story. As if Forex returned all the Imp classes would be left out, and if Pierce returned all the Republic classes would. Since it's impossible to recruit them cross faction. Bioware certainly isn't going to split the story again, and if for some reason (maybe the game started making a billion dollars a year) they did, I'm sure they'd allow those companions to join you in story without the PvP requisite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 That makes sense. And they should allow people to turn them down and get rid of the quest. I had such high hopes that 4.0 would rid me of those stupid Ilum quests in my log...nope. The thing I'll say about existing companions is technically they are not on the characters you have to PvP for. For Troopers and Warriors they come without incident. The other classes never had them, so they wouldn't be existing companions. Furthermore having them split in factions like that is even more assurance that they won't reappear in the story. As if Forex returned all the Imp classes would be left out, and if Pierce returned all the Republic classes would. Since it's impossible to recruit them cross faction. Bioware certainly isn't going to split the story again, and if for some reason (maybe the game started making a billion dollars a year) they did, I'm sure they'd allow those companions to join you in story without the PvP requisite. Possibly, we'll have to see. It may just be a single cutscene that depends on your faction. But your reasoning is sound. In any case, I'll try to grind those warzones on the two characters I think Forex/Pierce should be in addition to those who already have them, but for the others, please offer an opt-out that's definitive. Like saying to Forex "You're doing a good job here on Coruscant, keep at it." and then done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 If it's for new companions, I'm kinda ok with this. You don't see me complaining about the Akk Dog, do you? Although I suppose I could/should at the price it's sold on the GTN, half the price of a guild ship, no matter how rarer it is, is too much. It's the idea of locking existing companions with a potential story impact that I'm not okay with. If it were to be that Forex and/or Pierce could have even a scene in the coming chapters, then I'll keep considering gating them behind Warzones to be a mistake. If they don't, just give me an opt out for both of them, so I can refuse to get them, get rid of the quest, the alert and them as contacts. I don't actually oppose your idea of offering "new" companions as reward for side activities, just don't pick existing companions to do it. Use Akk Dogs, Nexus, Arcann, Malgus (If he is deader than dead), Valkorion, or whatever. Don't put major story companions in there. There's no evidence that 4x or Pierce will ever have any major impact in the story. The ones that do show up during the story. Face it, these are vanity items for non Troopers/Warriors. Do the WZs if you want them. Hell, I love 4x too but since my lowest alt at that level is valor 56, I'm not too worried about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiablos Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Possibly, we'll have to see. It may just be a single cutscene that depends on your faction. But your reasoning is sound. In any case, I'll try to grind those warzones on the two characters I think Forex/Pierce should be in addition to those who already have them, but for the others, please offer an opt-out that's definitive. Like saying to Forex "You're doing a good job here on Coruscant, keep at it." and then done. Yeah I didn't realize you couldn't do that. I hate messy quest logs as much as (or 1000x more) than the next guy. I would certainly cosign making the quests end without recruiting them. I need closure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Yeah I didn't realize you couldn't do that. I hate messy quest logs as much as (or 1000x more) than the next guy. I would certainly cosign making the quests end without recruiting them. I need closure. I especially want that because Xalek offers that. And I feel like most of my characters wouldn't want Qyzen "I sleep in Wookie Fur" Fes in their Alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Follow up. Imp or Pub on Jung Ma? Because I have an Imperial Agent I'd kind of like to recruit Pierce on. Wouldn't mind having shepherd for that. Pub, unless you like lowbies, though I'll probably go back on my marauder some time since 4.0 actually gives me a reason to do stuff on that side now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Companions were, should be, and IMO are characters in their own right -- and not "cosmetic items". That degeared companions with generic abilities might be easier to treat as interchangeable "cosmetic items" is one of the reasons I was opposed to both changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Companions were, should be, and IMO are characters in their own right -- and not "cosmetic items". That degeared companions with generic abilities might be easier to treat as interchangeable "cosmetic items" is one of the reasons I was opposed to both changes. Regardless of how you felt before, it is what it is. They are cosmetic items now, essentially no difference between any of them in any role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Regardless of how you felt before, it is what it is. They are cosmetic items now, essentially no difference between any of them in any role. That does not in and of itself make them cosmetic items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersyn Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Regardless of how you felt before, it is what it is. They are cosmetic items now, essentially no difference between any of them in any role. there is truth to this more than ever - At least the droid isn't mandatory to progress through the storyline, and you do get him for free if you're a trooper - Where I hate having PVP forced on anybody - I would feel really annoyed if my favorite companion was locked behind something I entirely loathed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmaguz Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 If people really wanted main stream PvP why are all the PvP servers near empty? Cause you hardly ever meet other people on planets and Ilum didn't work because the engine sucks so there's no world pvp therefore no reason to be in a pvp server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiablos Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 That does not in and of itself make them cosmetic items. The fact that you can now get them in the Cartel Market does. Also I think even you would agree that this is clearly the direction Bioware is taking with them. Obviously you dislike this direction, and are going to fight every battle along the way no matter how big or small. I respect your right to do that, and oftentimes think you frame the debate better than most who dislike 4.0. Even if just once I'd love to hear something positive come from you . So let's shift the debate. Let's not argue about whether or not companions should be gated behind PvP. Let's talk about gating companions at all. Let's talk about Lokin and Akk Dog and Nico and even the 6 gated behind PvE flashpoints in alliance mode. Even the fact that Forex and Pierce are gated by faction (barely even mentioned in this thread). This thread is too much based on the PvP aspect and the debate itself is missing the forest from the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 That does not in and of itself make them cosmetic items. The fact that you can't do the companion quests with them unless they are natural to your class does make them cosmetic though. They offer nothing more than a skin and voice. I understand why folks might not like that, but that's the reality now. Companions are commodities. I'm hoping I can get Vaylin someday myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 That does not in and of itself make them cosmetic items. Are you saying it would have been better if you would have not gotten any new companions at all? If not, this is deffo better than nothing, LOADS better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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