Obviously the DEVS did not test the Flashpoints

[Pilar]

They have totally ruined flashpoints have not completed a single one successfully since the patch. Removing the Trinity ( Tank Healer DPS ) is the most stupid idea in the history of this game. They apparently thing sticking ridiculous healing boxes that make zero sense in game immersion all around the bosses makes this content playable. Problem is level 65 yard trash is ripping apart parties before they can even get to these stupid boss fights.

 

Sadly this would be bad enough but this is just the beginning of the bad decisions with this update. Much like they did with Obama all the " Change Change Change " people chanting how great this is will soon realize just how bad these changes really are but then it will be too late. Because the players that have subbed and supported the cartel coins will be leaving in droves.

 

I am at least a grand into this game maybe close to two grand and I am very seriously considering walking away on this crappy update.

 

Now lets take a moment and talk about the greed on the new item mall changes.. 2 items in hypercrates now ? And 90% of the time they give furniture.. oh and do not get me going on opening old hypercrates and getting stacks of ( obsolete material ) grey vendor trash because the items are no longer in the game.

 

Absolute piece of crap good job driving those nails in the coffin..

[Shwarzchild]

That's funny. I've qued for two flashpoints so far today, and cleared both without an issue.

[DizzD]

That's funny. I've qued for two flashpoints so far today, and cleared both without an issue.

 

That's fine, but apparently casuals are having serious problems clearing FPs, as evidenced by multiple posts and fleet commentary. It's a legitimate concern seeing as how the majority of SWTOR players are indeed casuals, and BW seems hellbent to cater this game to that demographic.

[Miyran]

They have totally ruined flashpoints have not completed a single one successfully since the patch. Removing the Trinity ( Tank Healer DPS ) is the most stupid idea in the history of this game. They apparently thing sticking ridiculous healing boxes that make zero sense in game immersion all around the bosses makes this content playable. Problem is level 65 yard trash is ripping apart parties before they can even get to these stupid boss fights.

 

Sadly this would be bad enough but this is just the beginning of the bad decisions with this update. Much like they did with Obama all the " Change Change Change " people chanting how great this is will soon realize just how bad these changes really are but then it will be too late. Because the players that have subbed and supported the cartel coins will be leaving in droves.

 

I am at least a grand into this game maybe close to two grand and I am very seriously considering walking away on this crappy update.

 

Now lets take a moment and talk about the greed on the new item mall changes.. 2 items in hypercrates now ? And 90% of the time they give furniture.. oh and do not get me going on opening old hypercrates and getting stacks of ( obsolete material ) grey vendor trash because the items are no longer in the game.

 

Absolute piece of crap good job driving those nails in the coffin..

 

Had the same experience... I'm a level 60 Tank, so you can imagine my face being grouped with 3 level 16 - 25 dps... On Athiss.

[LordTurin]

And for what its worth, Tactical Flashpoints should be pretty easy. OPs and HM stuff is a different discussion, but Tacticals should definitely not have a lot of trouble for people doing it.

[DawnAskham]

And for what its worth, Tactical Flashpoints should be pretty easy. OPs and HM stuff is a different discussion, but Tacticals should definitely not have a lot of trouble for people doing it.

 

Which is the problem atm.

 

I literally ran through BP HM with a group this morning chain pulling, no issues, even three manned the last 'boss' as one of the dps dc'd.

 

I've also done many of the other up-scaled HMs and had no issues - save for BH HM which is back on the auto-drop group if it pops list (trash has way too much HP for the intended 50-65 bolstered player and every group I've had ended up with multiple sets of trash up wrecking the group).

 

Conversely, I joined an in-progress D7 tactical that was a giant cluster-f*ck where someone died just about every trash pull (boss fights were fine with the kolto stations), and looking at logs, I took over 6,200+ DTPS on some pulls.

Edited October 21, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Miyran]

That's fine, but apparently casuals are having serious problems clearing FPs, as evidenced by multiple posts and fleet commentary. It's a legitimate concern seeing as how the majority of SWTOR players are indeed casuals, and BW seems hellbent to cater this game to that demographic.

 

Nothing to do with "being casual". They've slapped the Tactical Label on full fleshed out flashpoints and upped the levels, without any balance.

[Headd]

Which is the problem atm.

 

I literally ran through BP HM with a group this morning chain pulling, no issues, even three manned the last 'boss' as one of the dps dc'd.

 

I've also done many of the other up-scaled HMs and had no issues - save for BH HM which is back on the auto-drop group if it pops list (trash has way too much HP for the intended 50-65 bolstered player and every group I've had ended up with multiple sets of trash up wrecking the group).

 

Conversely, I joined an in-progress D7 tactical that was a giant cluster-f*ck where someone died just about every trash pull (boss fights were fine with the kolto stations), and looking at logs, I took over 6,200+ DTPS on some pulls.

Directive is super easy.I healed it as 26lvl healer.But try TaralV:D how do you want heal 42K hits every 5s or 60k hits?

[GhOsTPrOz]

Directive is super easy.I healed it as 26lvl healer.But try TaralV:D how do you want heal 42K hits every 5s or 60k hits?

 

42k or even 60k is not too bad 5 seconds apart...that's almost 3 gcd s to get them at least 30 to 40k health back, while it might be rough....from what I have seen most Healers hit for like 20k now...my roaming mend does 18k it's pretty great and that's only 1 gcd, and in it I do 18k heals each on 4 people.

[venomlash]

Trash hits STUPIDLY hard in tacticals (and in HMs, honestly). 4.0 flashpoint standards are the new 3.0 Rishi silvers. It's to the point that bossfights are pretty much faceroll but trash is extremely difficult and tedious. Which doesn't really lend to the bosses feeling challenging.

 

They wanted to make leveling FPs accessible to casuals and scrubs...so they threw them in against nasty packs of trash without a tank or a healer. GG BioWare, should have just left the leveling FPs as they were. I'd rather wait half an hour for a pop and actually get a proper group than get a pop in two minutes and spend the next hour getting slaughtered by trash.

[Lodinn]

I just wanted to create a thread about content tuning when i saw this one.

 

My experience so far from 4.0 start - i was running as both sin tank with almost full pre-4.0 BiS but with ruined stats due to mods changes (700 shield, 1200 def ) and mara dps in pre-4.0 BiS, both lvl 65, no new mods/armorings/left side put into gear so far.

 

Korriban - I was tanking, trash hits stupidly hard (i used literally EVERYTHING minus tank adrenal (R.I.P. tank adrenals ) on the very first trash, bosses went much smoother). Our healer was quite good, but dps were not so (186/192 gear, not so much pve experience. Not that they stayed in crap, it's just numbers and fluency). Ended up with ~3 wipes on droid due to enrage and final boss oneshotting people with saber throw and 1 wipe there, rest (including bonus) went just fine. Hardest FP I've been in so far, might be due to broken tanking stats or something. Definitely wasn't a walk in a park.

 

I was tanking one or two more FPs, they were old ones and they were way too easy, don't even recall what i ran.

 

Rishi - i was dpsing this. Well, adds on final boss hitted just like they should, causing one wipe, we didn't go for bonus, rest went smooth, i'd say it even could be a bit harder, tho we had two 10/10 clearers, 1 8/10 and a newish tank with 2k achieves who was quite good, however. The one properly tuned flashpoint.

 

Boarding Party and Foundry - both as dps, both were easy altogether. Undertuned if to aim at Battle of Rishi current tuning which i expect to be just fine (no dps checks/enrage on most of pre-3.0 FPs, so pretty much tactics > gear and class knowledge -> can stress up dtps/healing a bit as long as it's not oneshotting). And lowlvl merc healing without kolto shots... Oh please.

 

Bottom line - tune down SoR FPs even a bit more dtps-wise, tune up pre-SoR ones.

 

 

OPS - well... New storymodes are a joke, sometimes a bad one. Kephess acting like a dummy in TfB for the entirety of phase 1? C'mon, i was not even sure it's intended.

Larvae not even damaging people on Terror? Well, make it 10-15k hits instead of 5k ones, maybe then people will at least try to avoid it, while it'll be kept unpunishing.

ToS... Well, Lurker nerfed to the ground. Apparently it's good. And i mean it. Probably the only definitely welcome change i've noticed so far.

Oh wait... Old HM decos dropping from SM Ravs and ToS? Strong move as long as you can support it with good HM loot. Looking forward to check it out. Time to put Replica Spheres in each and every SH ^^

 

Where was I... Calphayus - no last phase on SM? That's one rough start given buddies just told me they did the whole DP HM in old 198 sets (+204 MH ofc), and Calph was overtuned. Raptus was no easy either, but Calph is reported to be really hard. That's quite a jumpstart from SM, huh?

 

Your experience folks? Was running group PvE hard on you or ridiculously easy the last couple of days?

[Iffyluse]

Did some flashpoints, gotta say Mandalorian Raiders HM was a tough one to crack. My full minmaxed augmented 192 set bonus commando who could basically heal through underlurker with his eyes closed now could barely heal through a single turret shooting at the tank in this flashpoint . Bolster doesn't work properly to make up for the damage the enemies do. I kind of like the challenge, we got through the flashpoint with a couple of deaths (even did the bonus boss Gil) but the entire time it felt like I was doing a lvl 60 op with 128 rating gear.

 

Maelstrom Prison HM with my Scoundrel Healer was quite easy tho, didn't run into too many issues other than *********** AGGRO IS STUPID NOW.

 

And the way aggro works feels way different. I never got so much aggro on me as I did now and the same with other DPS players in the groups, it seems it's way harder for tanks to hold the enemies attention.

 

Cademinu tactical with my Tactics Vanguard.... Yeah. 4 DPS players, not a lot of fun, I had to switch to respec to tank. For some reason it didn't let me confirm my utility selection changes (buggy or what) so I was in Tank spec with no utilities and in mostly DPS gear (Except for implants/earpiece/offhand/mainhand), we got through somehow. Gotta say, a somewhat "hybrid" setup works for tacticals. Although, would never recommend doing it without a healer.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Iffyluse

[Danylia]

Did Mandalorian Raiders HM (because Conquest) yesterday, we had average Sin tank, decent Merc healer, newbie Jugg DPS (who never did it on HM before) and me as second DPS (Operative).

 

Trash was ok once the Jugg learned not to pull (he derped quite a bit, especially in the start, but also listened to advices once they were given, so it wasn't a lost cause). First boss (Braxx + Hounds) one wipe - tank struggled a bit with the aggro drop of Braxx, and the inability to control hounds made it hard on the healer (the DoT you get there must actually be cleansed now, it ticks hard). Made it on second try. Second boss (Boarding Party) we oneshot, though I took extra care to DPS the last two (Smuggler and Trooper) evenly, otherwise it would most likely be wipe as well. Bonus boss (Gil) one wipe (huge damage from red circle). Second attempt, we made the tank kite the boss while red circle was on, with me offhealing in that phase. Killed it, but it was a tight call. Final boss (Mavrix + Turrets) - tank wasn't able to hold aggro on both turrets and boss, leading to 3-4 wipes. Healer left after the 1st wipe there (RL emergency, he actually told us he only has 5 minutes before we first attempted Mavrix) we got a decent Sorc healer instead. After the 3rd-4th wipe tank left as well without a word. I grabbed a friend Powertech tank and with him we killed the boss no problems.

 

Overall, just what I'd expect from a HM at the start of new circle - decent challenge, but doable if everyone knows what to do or at least listens.

[omaan]

I don't like new flash point system too. Previouse flash point conception was much better.

[Headd]

42k or even 60k is not too bad 5 seconds apart...that's almost 3 gcd s to get them at least 30 to 40k health back, while it might be rough....from what I have seen most Healers hit for like 20k now...my roaming mend does 18k it's pretty great and that's only 1 gcd, and in it I do 18k heals each on 4 people.

 

Nope..As 37lvl heal i crit for 10k-12k and normal heal is for 8k.I dont have any AOE heal as sage and its impossible heal that.

Btw tank have 60K hp a boss kill him before i even channel my heal.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Headd

[Shwarzchild]

That's fine, but apparently casuals are having serious problems clearing FPs, as evidenced by multiple posts and fleet commentary. It's a legitimate concern seeing as how the majority of SWTOR players are indeed casuals, and BW seems hellbent to cater this game to that demographic.

 

I don't think this has anything to do with casuals vs more experienced vets vs whoever else. This is how expansions go. In the very beginning all the content is harder than what players remember regardless of their self classifications. The OP made no reference to what gear he was in. In previous tacticals within 3.0 you could roflstomp everything in like 186 gear or the beginning tier comm gear....but you had to get there first. With the expansion being so new I have no doubt that more people aren't up to snuff with their gear yet in order to get them their roflstomp run in. As 4.0 progresses they'll receive more gear, and they'll be able to just cruise in, and cruise out.

 

In 3.0 I remember very similar complaints when that dropped: "Oh silvers hit like mac trucks! it's too hard!" Then by the end of the expansion I didn't hear anyone complaining about trash mobs. It's because they had the time to get themselves some gear that will allow them a margin for error. So as I read these threads that have come out in early access, it reinforces my opinion that this is just what happens at launch of new things. I can walk into a hard mode op in my 198 gear and be fine, but that's because I'm crazy and learned everything I could about how my class operates. I don't expect the majority to be sick like I am. But, I do expect them to stay calm and just be a little bit more patient. The content will become easy as pie soon enough. Just take a step back. If problems are from the tatcticals, then go ahead and do the heroic 2s for a little. Upgrade what you have with that stuff, and then go roflstomp.

 

TL DR: You can't get to the end without starting at the beginning. We're all at the beginning. Ease will come.

[DarthZaul]

 

ToS... Well, Lurker nerfed to the ground. Apparently it's good. And i mean it. Probably the only definitely welcome change i've noticed so far.

 

 

I'm still seeing lots of pugs on fleet starting from Underlurker. Doesn't seem to be nerfed.

[bdatt]

Your experience folks? Was running group PvE hard on you or ridiculously easy the last couple of days?

 

I've only run 16m sm SnV so far. 9 manned, could have taken less, for 6/7. Couldn't beat enrage on Styrak with 6 dps (after 5ish pulls) and had some close calls on chained manifestation. Had fun trying though. Part of group was insta-60 (and pulled Dash'Roode at lvl 60), others in 3.x gear so fully taking advantage of bolster. Good players, so tbh I see a full pug 16m struggling on Styrak until said pug is way overgearing the content. That's probably ok though.

Edited October 22, 2015 by bdatt

[kernelsanderz]

Trash hits STUPIDLY hard in tacticals (and in HMs, honestly). 4.0 flashpoint standards are the new 3.0 Rishi silvers. It's to the point that bossfights are pretty much faceroll but trash is extremely difficult and tedious. Which doesn't really lend to the bosses feeling challenging.

 

They wanted to make leveling FPs accessible to casuals and scrubs...so they threw them in against nasty packs of trash without a tank or a healer. GG BioWare, should have just left the leveling FPs as they were. I'd rather wait half an hour for a pop and actually get a proper group than get a pop in two minutes and spend the next hour getting slaughtered by trash.

 

Yeah it just doesn't feel balanced at all for role neutral groups like it says it is. I got grouped with 4 dps between levels 35 to 60 doing boarding party and every trash pull was just a massive zerg with everyone either dead or very close to it at the end. I'd usually open up with death from above and that pretty much sealed my fate threat-wise for the remainder of the pull. I just had to run los, kite, pop pots, and pray the other dps could finish them off before I died.

 

If it's really role neutral then the mob aggro should be more spontaneous and evenly distributed among the group. It doesn't feel like it's changed whatsoever lol. They still have the same aggro tables and still all focus the person doing the most damage. It's like BW just removed the holy trinity, said "It's tactical now, have fun with whatever you are!" and bolstered everyone up hoping for the best. From what I can see there was literally no other balancing changes done to mob behavior and aggro. It's chaos without a tank and healer atm and thoroughly un-enjoyable. Almost all of my groups have just disbanded so far after the first few trash slaughters.

[bdatt]

I'd usually open up with death from above and that pretty much sealed my fate threat-wise for the remainder of the pull. I just had to run los, kite, pop pots, and pray the other dps could finish them off before I died.

 

So why don't you try a different tactic like cc and single target focus for the tougher mob pulls? These are tactics still necessary at times with trinity groups (especially back in the day).

 

If you just want to zerg, solo mode comes with a nice droid that will save you.

[Storm-Cutter]

My guild managed to clear level 65 Athiss last night and we're 60,60,61 and 62 non-main chracters - And though it was a tactical, we didn't use the heal stations, just know-how, and 2 off-healers.

 

Okay so we know the FP well, but it wasn't exactly difficult. We've cleared pretty much every HM FP dozens of times, and none of us are pro gamers, we're a bunch of old geezers.

 

I don't wanna be rude and yell L2P, but there are steps you can take to learn the FPs and settle on the content difficulty to suit your group.

 

Not a great fan of tacticals myself, but overall I think letting people do FPs at hard/medium/easy/solo difficulty settings is no bad thing.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Storm-Cutter

[ValidAvailable]

Maybe they ought to adjust how Group Finder works for still-leveling characters, limit them to level-appropriate FPs and unlock more as a char levels. That way a level 65 can still levelsynch down and run Hammer Station with their friends if they want, but a fresh level 15 with not even a dozen abilities doesn't get dropped into Red Reaper or Lost Island.

[Loc_n_lol]

Maybe they ought to adjust how Group Finder works for still-leveling characters, limit them to level-appropriate FPs and unlock more as a char levels. That way a level 65 can still levelsynch down and run Hammer Station with their friends if they want, but a fresh level 15 with not even a dozen abilities doesn't get dropped into Red Reaper or Lost Island.

 

The problem here is that if they do that, the lower level flashpoints will be popping most of the time.

[Lodinn]

*********** AGGRO IS STUPID NOW.

 

And the way aggro works feels way different. I never got so much aggro on me as I did now and the same with other DPS players in the groups, it seems it's way harder for tanks to hold the enemies attention.

 

Well yeah, we wiped on trash in TfB sm via GF with some pretty decent people. And it was not a boss wipe, just a double core room. Got one tank DCed, adds eventually overwhelmed us while healers were yelling for me (the second tank) to AOE taunt. I did it twice, the normal way (i.e. letting adds build some aggro first prior to ramping it up, saber reflect, all that jazz). StarParse was showing me 13k TPS in first 15 seconds and ~16k over the 2-minute pull or so, and adds were still shooting healers... (It was a 8m run, so not so much aggro from AOE heals either way). Weird it is.

[Luuin]

Tactical Flashpoint Maelstorom Prison

 

Ancient Maelstrom Flayer was doing 41k Smashes, no kolto stations around the boss.....enough said.