An optional level sync I could live with

[sentientomega]

Currently at lvl 55 with 172 blue mods from basic comms

 

Oricon H2 (not all champs are doable due to their CC spam ) at lvl 55 (so without lvl 56+ super skills) as comp tank+player heal in 172 blue gear from comms. No heroic moment needed.

 

GSI H2 is doable in same composition.

 

Czerka weekly is doable in same composition.

 

Now, the original gear reward for oricon was purple 156 gear, and it was doable on every class back then with that gear (even 148 blue gear), and that aint enough. But then, player characters got nerfed hard in 3.0, so you could say 172 is new 148.

 

Stats are not that much of a problem, prolonged interrupt skill CD is what causes most of problems as certain champs are easy if you figure out what you need to interrupt. The only trick is to have low enough intrrupt CD.

 

We need pre-3.0 dps back, and shorter interrupt CDs back; or better yet, eliminate their CDs for PvE.

 

I'd honestly hate to think I'd be limited to using a healer/tank combo to solo anything, the beauty of being five levels above anything and well-geared was whatever the H2+ was, however difficult, it was still somewhat doable without having to resort to the pure survivability slog of a healer/tank and vice versa combo.

 

BW:A should also consider reducing the dps output of all heroic enemies everywhere by by at least 10-20%, if we are being stuck to at-max-level misery that it could turn out to be, though, if BW:A really cares about drawing in new blood, it should hopefully not be too bad.

 

I know I've come a long way, I'm not the madness-specced assassin with dark charge who didn't change to darkness until the level mid-40s, two years ago; so, I'm hoping those "may require a small group" warnings are indeed pretty much just for the benefit of new players.

 

To be able to do every heroic alone, knowing I can group if I so desire, every planetary weekly, whatever my spec, is all I wish from 4.0. I'll do other stuff as well, but to know that I can do solo whatever I've been able to would go a long way to putting me at ease.

Edited October 12, 2015 by sentientomega

[robertthebard]

Unfortunately, we have the reverse problem here. It's not those at the pinnacle of the skill cap which are the source of most illogical comments in these discussions, it's largely those on the lower end that see some benefit to level sync, and have zero moral or practical reservations in obtaining that benefit at the expense of other players.

 

Arrogance has to be earned, but there's a large number of armchair developers online of late that haven't earned theirs.

 

I'd say that this post fits well into the arrogance category. I wonder though, since I can solo the H2 in question on a Sentinel with a DPS comp, where I fit in? Am I suddenly amongst the best of the best, or just really good at choosing which Champs to go after? This is, after all, part of what "think about what you're doing" means. Sorry if that comes off as an illogical argument, but hey, it's actually quite effective in practice. So I guess the problem here is the new term you've learned recently: armchair developer. You've been playing it so long that nothing is good for the game if you don't think it is, and frankly, we don't know if this is good for the game or not. I'm not pro sync, nor am I steadfastly against it. I'm in the "wait and see what it's really going to be" camp.

 

The nice thing about that? I don't have to eat any crow if it's really bad, nor do I have to eat any if it's effects are negligible at worst. I can just continue to do what I've been doing. However, my definition of bad won't include "I have to pick and choose which Champs to kill in Oricon's H2", because I do that now, w/out sync.

[IanArgent]

Something I just realized about the H2+ on Oricon. It's part of the "critical path" of the story missions, not just the weekly there. There's some tweaks to the requirements for the storyline version rather than the daily version, but they use the same area, mobs, and elites. If it can't be soloed "at level," then the critical path storyline cannot be soloed. Which is against their current mindset.

 

Will they retune in light of that? I don't know - but per their own statements, at least the storyline version of the mission has to be soloable at level.

Edited October 12, 2015 by IanArgent

[YlliyaXor]

I think Backus said level sync is only up to Makeb, which may or may not include Makeb itself.

 

If Makeb is included in level sync, then we'll have a planet that goes from having bolster to having level sync, that's just bad design and even i from my armchair can see it, there is also Ilum during Gree, how will that work?, will we have a planet with an half level synced and the other half bolstered?

 

The funny thing is while i dislike level sync i didn't even think it was that big of a deal, just a nuisance, but the trademark BW lack of answers and/or solutions when there's an outcry, makes me to think that even if level sync is half broken it will stay, kinda like that mission on Makeb impside where your comps are bugged, or the GSI missions on Alderaan.

[Princess_Chibi]

I'd say that this post fits well into the arrogance category. I wonder though, since I can solo the H2 in question on a Sentinel with a DPS comp, where I fit in? Am I suddenly amongst the best of the best, or just really good at choosing which Champs to go after? This is, after all, part of what "think about what you're doing" means. Sorry if that comes off as an illogical argument, but hey, it's actually quite effective in practice. So I guess the problem here is the new term you've learned recently: armchair developer. You've been playing it so long that nothing is good for the game if you don't think it is, and frankly, we don't know if this is good for the game or not. I'm not pro sync, nor am I steadfastly against it. I'm in the "wait and see what it's really going to be" camp.

 

The nice thing about that? I don't have to eat any crow if it's really bad, nor do I have to eat any if it's effects are negligible at worst. I can just continue to do what I've been doing. However, my definition of bad won't include "I have to pick and choose which Champs to kill in Oricon's H2", because I do that now, w/out sync.

 

You're starting to sound like an adult in Charlie Brown cartoons there Robert... WOH WOH WOH, WOH WOH! WOH?

 

I'm no armchair developer, but I'll gladly argue valid points against those who absent experience, in some cases intelligence, general logic and sound impartial ground push for changes in a game I play at the expense of my enjoyment for their own personal benefit. I never claimed to know what's best for this game, I simply disagree that any other player posting on this forum does either, despite their adamant protestations otherwise.

 

Here's the thing about sitting in the "wait and see" camp (complacency or blind cultist faith in BW, call it what you will). If you wait and see while the developers point a shotgun at your toon, wait and see if they pull the trigger, and wait to see if it actually murders your gameplay experience a little/quite a bit/entirely, by the time you know for sure it's too late to argue against it.

 

Some changes can be good for this game, one so clearly controversial, fundamental and impactful shouldn't be made as lightly as it has been. There's a lot of theorycrafting that BW waited until the last possible second to announce this crap in hopes of eating as little crow as possible; that's not an unsound possibility. That would suggest BW knew it would be unpopular, knew it would cause an uproar, and rather than calmly and logically explaining their intent to the game population they chose to proceed anyway. THAT is problematic if so, and for the future of this game if there's some senior community manager that thinks they can actually get away with that more than once. Sony Electronic Entertainment didn't learn their lesson, where are they now?

[IanArgent]

The logic behind level sync doesn't go away at Makeb.

[robertthebard]

You're starting to sound like an adult in Charlie Brown cartoons there Robert... WOH WOH WOH, WOH WOH! WOH?

 

I'm no armchair developer, but I'll gladly argue valid points against those who absent experience, in some cases intelligence, general logic and sound impartial ground push for changes in a game I play at the expense of my enjoyment for their own personal benefit. I never claimed to know what's best for this game, I simply disagree that any other player posting on this forum does either, despite their adamant protestations otherwise.

 

Here's the thing about sitting in the "wait and see" camp (complacency or blind cultist faith in BW, call it what you will). If you wait and see while the developers point a shotgun at your toon, wait and see if they pull the trigger, and wait to see if it actually murders your gameplay experience a little/quite a bit/entirely, by the time you know for sure it's too late to argue against it.

 

Some changes can be good for this game, one so clearly controversial, fundamental and impactful shouldn't be made as lightly as it has been. There's a lot of theorycrafting that BW waited until the last possible second to announce this crap in hopes of eating as little crow as possible; that's not an unsound possibility. That would suggest BW knew it would be unpopular, knew it would cause an uproar, and rather than calmly and logically explaining their intent to the game population they chose to proceed anyway. THAT is problematic if so, and for the future of this game if there's some senior community manager that thinks they can actually get away with that more than once. Sony Electronic Entertainment didn't learn their lesson, where are they now?

 

Here's another case of "I'm taking this way too seriously". If it's really bad, I'll quietly cancel my sub and move on. It's what I did in Aion when they opened up low level quest areas to capped toons from the other faction. The only ones there that may even realize I'm gone are my legion mates, and that because I told the ones that were on that I was moving on, and the rest can guess because I'm not on regularly. It's what I did in Rappelz, when they started getting way overboard with what they were doing too, with the exception there that I had to tell them I was leaving, since I was moderating their forums when I left. It's just good form, and I did it in the Moderator forums and PMs with a GM.

 

It's nothing more than that, nobody's burning my house down, a reference I saw made yesterday, or pointing a shotgun at my characters. They are making changes, if I play them, and don't mind or like them, I'll stick around, if I don't like them, I'll hit the road. All this melodrama is completely unnecessary. All these vapid exaggerations of how bad it's going to be, with absolutely nothing to go on are every bit as irrelevant as people going "it's going to be good for the game". At the end of the day, it's just a game, and it's not even the only game I play. I can move on from here just as easily as I moved in. After all, moving in meant that I moved on from something else, or at least over. Sorry if you can't wrap your head around that, but really, that's not my lack of intelligence showing.

[Mikahrtwo]

Something I just realized about the H2+ on Oricon. It's part of the "critical path" of the story missions, not just the weekly there. There's some tweaks to the requirements for the storyline version rather than the daily version, but they use the same area, mobs, and elites. If it can't be soloed "at level," then the critical path storyline cannot be soloed. Which is against their current mindset.

 

Will they retune in light of that? I don't know - but per their own statements, at least the storyline version of the mission has to be soloable at level.

 

All OPs starting with Karaggas are on critical path. One of biggest mistakes they made was shoving story in FPs/OPs since vast majority of people dont care about those. Its pretty bad when you cut them off from what is supposed to be your main attraction - story.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[IanArgent]

All OPs starting with Karaggas are on critical path. One of biggest mistakes they made was shoving story in FPs/OPs since vast majority of people dont care about those. Its pretty bad when you them off from what is supposed to be your main attraction - story.

 

As I said earlier, I hope they get the ToS Solo Mode treatment. I was VERY disappointed when they did that - I have no flipping clue what's been going on in those ops since I don't raid. Note that all the critical path flashpoints are confirmed to be getting solo mode.

[Mikahrtwo]

As I said earlier, I hope they get the ToS Solo Mode treatment. I was VERY disappointed when they did that - I have no flipping clue what's been going on in those ops since I don't raid. Note that all the critical path flashpoints are confirmed to be getting solo mode.

 

FPs yes, and thats great. But pretty much whole lot and even fiinale of dread masters story (which was main plot since launch to SoR story so 3-ish years?) is in OPs.

 

people are still gonna be dissapointed just as they were back then.

 

But its a start at least No need to get that greedy, ill be happy if they continue quality story ala KOTOR in regular installments in future (like they say they are commited to doing)

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[sentientomega]

As I said earlier, I hope they get the ToS Solo Mode treatment. I was VERY disappointed when they did that - I have no flipping clue what's been going on in those ops since I don't raid. Note that all the critical path flashpoints are confirmed to be getting solo mode.

 

Every critical path content should have a solo mode, the Cz-198 story included; side planet or not, it still has a story.

 

Also, I just had another look at this: http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/v/19256422

 

And it shows all the available weekly heroics, there is NO, I repeat, NO listing for Oricon's H2+. So, what is happening to it?

 

All the other daily zone heroics aren't listed either, that includes Cz-198, Black Hole and Section X, but Ilum is mentioned.

Edited October 13, 2015 by sentientomega

[WilliamBeckket]

The only people against the Level Sync is those *****s who sit on Tattoonie and start attacking people in PVP and when PVE people get too close and turn over to PVP. Because if those Level 60 toons are dropped to make 28 on tatoonie they would get their asses kicked.

[Max_Killjoy]

The only people against the Level Sync is those *****s who sit on Tattoonie and start attacking people in PVP and when PVE people get too close and turn over to PVP. Because if those Level 60 toons are dropped to make 28 on tatoonie they would get their asses kicked.

 

I avoid PvP like the plague. I have no interest in PvP. I do not find PvP at all entertaining or interesting.

 

I'm against mandatory level sync, and if it were optional, I'd never use it.

[Juromaro]

Every critical path content should have a solo mode, the Cz-198 story included; side planet or not, it still has a story.

 

Also, I just had another look at this: http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/v/19256422

 

And it shows all the available weekly heroics, there is NO, I repeat, NO listing for Oricon's H2+. So, what is happening to it?

 

All the other daily zone heroics aren't listed either, that includes Cz-198, Black Hole and Section X, but Ilum is mentioned.

 

Agreed, even side content, story is involved in everything.

[Juromaro]

The only people against the Level Sync is those *****s who sit on Tattoonie and start attacking people in PVP and when PVE people get too close and turn over to PVP. Because if those Level 60 toons are dropped to make 28 on tatoonie they would get their asses kicked.

 

Negative, those against it are against it because they don't like to be forced to do stuff.

[MrGoldsilver]

ohh another thread with the same 5 people whining about having to think -slightly- more when the expansion comes out.

 

-Grabs Popcorn-

 

Sorry I'm late. No, don't stop arguing on my account, it keeps me occupied for a little while.

[dscount]

The only people against the Level Sync is those *****s who sit on Tattoonie and start attacking people in PVP and when PVE people get too close and turn over to PVP. Because if those Level 60 toons are dropped to make 28 on tatoonie they would get their asses kicked.

 

LOL.. maybe on a PVP server... no value to waste my time doing that. Besides even with level sync you can wipe noob *** all over Tat, just takes longer now. Whoppiee... no value add in the whole FORCED model. Even for PVP it still will suck to be griefed.

[Mikahrtwo]

Negative, those against it are against it because they don't like to be forced to do stuff.

 

You were forced to level.

 

You were forced to do OPs to see the story.

 

You were forced to grind gear to just be able to see the content.

 

You are forced to do OPs for lot of rewards/achievements.

 

Where were you then? Where are you now.

 

OTOH i see same few people whining about soft removal of gear grind.

 

Oh no no no, this isnt about being forced, because as it turns up, same people are very content on lot of other stuff being forced.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Mikahrtwo]

Every critical path content should have a solo mode, the Cz-198 story included; side planet or not, it still has a story.

 

Also, I just had another look at this: http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/v/19256422

 

And it shows all the available weekly heroics, there is NO, I repeat, NO listing for Oricon's H2+. So, what is happening to it?

 

All the other daily zone heroics aren't listed either, that includes Cz-198, Black Hole and Section X, but Ilum is mentioned.

 

You have priority transport to those, or they just werent added yet. Or they want to encourage doing other stuff than same few daily areas people grinded to death.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Teladis]

You were forced to level.

 

You were forced to do OPs to see the story.

 

You were forced to grind gear to just be able to see the content.

 

You are forced to do OPs for lot of rewards/achievements.

 

Where were you then? Where are you now.

 

OTOH i see same few people whining about soft removal of gear grind.

 

Oh no no no, this isnt about being forced, because as it turns up, same people are very content on lot of other stuff being forced.

 

QFT best post here to be honest.

 

Optional is a playstyle still forced on players who don't want it to be. They talk about. "Optional is fair" when that is far from the truth.

 

Adjust to the changes, and keep moving forward. That is what a mmo is.

[IanArgent]

You were forced to level.

 

I'm not arguing you should not have to level to see further content. And XP is still in the game

 

You were forced to do OPs to see the story.

 

Bad mistake on BWs part, to put critical path story in Ops, one the didn't repeat for SoR and hopefully will correct in the previous critical-path Ops.

 

You were forced to grind gear to just be able to see the content.

 

Unpack - I've never felt the need to grind for gear or XP to see the critical path story

 

You are forced to do OPs for lot of rewards/achievements.

 

Optional content is optional. I'm very specifically against "giving" anything but critical path story to people who don't work for it (or in the case of the advanced L60 with crafting skills, who are receiving a fully-rounded character as advertised)

 

If/when they give a story/solo mode to the critical-path Ops, I very specifically do NOT want those to grant operations-level rewards, just like the solo-mode flashpoints do not grant the group-level rewards. I do not want every flashpoint or operation in the game to have a solo mode, only the ones that have critical-path story.

[Mikahrtwo]

I'm not arguing you should not have to level to see further content. And XP is still in the game

 

 

 

Bad mistake on BWs part, to put critical path story in Ops, one the didn't repeat for SoR and hopefully will correct in the previous critical-path Ops.

 

 

 

Unpack - I've never felt the need to grind for gear or XP to see the critical path story

 

 

 

Optional content is optional. I'm very specifically against "giving" anything but critical path story to people who don't work for it (or in the case of the advanced L60 with crafting skills, who are receiving a fully-rounded character as advertised)

 

If/when they give a story/solo mode to the critical-path Ops, I very specifically do NOT want those to grant operations-level rewards, just like the solo-mode flashpoints do not grant the group-level rewards. I do not want every flashpoint or operation in the game to have a solo mode, only the ones that have critical-path story.

 

Well, at least you are frank about not having a problem with some stuff being forced.

 

But you didnt do original claim i responded to anyway, its "holier thou you" people that pretend they dont want forced stuff on one end and have no problem lot of stuff being forced on the other end.

 

And im for having every instanced content flexible, from solo to 8 people. if friend and i want to tackle Karaggas we should be able to. OTOH, if you want to run it with 7 others, why not. Even 16.

 

Rewards should have no effect. Content either can stand on its own or not. Bribing people to do it lessened its effectivenss greatly over the years. And content that is not played/played by small minority is waste of resources.

 

Exclusive group content should be very scarce.

 

And crafting should be able to rival best gear (without raiding) in the game otherwise just remove it as its pointless.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[JumperPenn]

The only people against the Level Sync is those *****s who sit on Tattoonie and start attacking people in PVP and when PVE people get too close and turn over to PVP. Because if those Level 60 toons are dropped to make 28 on tatoonie they would get their asses kicked.

 

I'm against forced level sync, I'm for optional level sync, I've never sat in any pvp area on a high char waiting to attack people who wandered in. To combat this 'huge' problem of a synced char or regular level chars on the planet dealing with non synced players separate them by instances. There's no reason to have synced chars playing in the same area as non synced and regular planet level range characters.

 

Almost anyone with level 60/65 char who has the abilities, gear, augments, relics, set bonuses, datacrons, and/or PVP gear from pvp'ing would wipe the floor with a non synced character with limited abilities, play time, gear, etc even after they were synced down to planet max unless they didn't want to win or had a hardware failure, physical limitation etc.

 

I am against forced level sync and I don't gank people in pvp, don't enjoy it, few people actually sit in the outlaws den hoping for someone to wander through for the 3-4 reasons anyone would ever go there outside of looking for a fight.

[sentientomega]

You have priority transport to those, or they just werent added yet. Or they want to encourage doing other stuff than same few daily areas people grinded to death.

 

Or, maybe they changed the nature of those areas' weeklies?

[Mikahrtwo]

Or, maybe they changed the nature of those areas' weeklies?

 

Maybe. But its indicative that

 

a) you already have priority transport to all those missing

b) you already have weeklies for them, available at their respective terminals

c) in case of Oricon you have actual story arc that gives you access to daly/weekly quests AND which is part of critical story path (including OPs)

 

So yeah, we could speculate its any number of things. Its few more days anyway.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mikahrtwo