Darth Nox vs Hero of tython

[SithKoriandr]

I think when it comes to Zash's training, you have to do a bit of head canon. Same with Yuon's. If you just go with the idea that it all took one day to do all you did, then no emotional connection is made, and that just isn't how the story plays out. Sadly, being a game and an MMO one at that, they can only do so much.

[Saelinne]

I think when it comes to Zash's training, you have to do a bit of head canon. Same with Yuon's. If you just go with the idea that it all took one day to do all you did, then no emotional connection is made, and that just isn't how the story plays out. Sadly, being a game and an MMO one at that, they can only do so much.

 

Oh I am very much aware of this....and the time passing problem is an old friend to games sadly (be they MMO or not). I was more thinking that your char can tell her that him/herself....well I am not sure what they tell since I never clicked it, but there was such an option....

[Joachimthbear]

I think when it comes to Zash's training, you have to do a bit of head canon. Same with Yuon's. If you just go with the idea that it all took one day to do all you did, then no emotional connection is made, and that just isn't how the story plays out. Sadly, being a game and an MMO one at that, they can only do so much.

The thing that really messes with my head is that when you get to Taris,

 

the Inquisitor suddenly knows a whole lot about the Jedi Code and why Ashara is failing at it. When was this explained to you? Why does the Inquisitor, but not Lord Praven, know that Jedi aren't supposed to execute defeated opponents?

 

[RTCBrad]

I really doubt the Knight would have much chance, I don't see any scenario where the Knight wins. Nox is a powerhouse and probably the most potent force user of this time (aside from the Emperor).

 

However no one really knows and you find comparable feats between all force user PC's.

 

I would say my impression (having played all the stories) is closer to Consular=Inquisitor > Knight=Warrior.

[ReiKai]

I'm seeing quite a bit of false info and exaggerations here. Let's do some correcting.

 

It was never said Baras was stronger than Thanaton, nor implied. It was only said that Baras was near invulnerable, implying he spent most of his strength towards his defenses rather than his offensive strength. In the "Blood of the Empire" comic, Baras was roughly 100+lbs lighter than he is when the Wrath first meets him. Those events were some 20+yrs earlier. In that time, Baras is indicated to having retracted himself from outward fighting and has since been lacking in actual combat. Preferring to use spies and assassins and a silver tongue as opposed to his Force Powers and combat skills.

 

On the other hand, Thanaton kept learning Force rituals and dark side secrets since those events. It was also stated that Baras had sustained grievous injury during the war when he fought with Jedi Master Noman Karr, and the two held a grudge against each other ever since. Baras is indeed strong, but to say he's stronger than Thanaton is quite a stretch.

 

Also, those going on about how the Hero of Tython solo'd Vitiate are clearly exaggerating those events. Many forgetting or simply ignoring the fact that Vitiate was greatly weakened by the time they fought. His Voice had been killed, many of his Children were killed and other servants connected to his power and consciousness were also killed, diminishing his power greatly. As did his struggle with Sel-Makor on Voss. Vitiate's power was diminished not only by the Knight's actions, but by the Barsen'thor's and the Wrath's as well. Plus a few other tidbits in other class stories as well. Vitiate was perhaps the weakest he's ever been, and still put up quite a fight.

 

As for Nox/Inquisitor, Nox was incredibly powerful at the start. This much was undeniable. And while having a powerful ancestor doesn't mean Nox can be as powerful as him (Kallig), it is heavily implied through the story that Nox has surpassed both Kallig and Tulak Hord. Khem Val seems to acknowledge this as well. More than anything Nox required the ghosts not so much to match Thanaton in power, but to overcome the gap in knowledge Thanaton had over Nox. In order to overcome Thanaton's greater Knowledge of the Force, Nox required enough power to cover that gap and make his more esoteric Force abilities completely worthless.

 

Also, people are mistaken about a few things concerning Nox's story. The collicoid thing, for one, was meant to be temporary according to the serum. However it did appear to bond with Nox in some way and altered Nox's genetic makeup. This is acknowledged by the devices on Rishi. This can also be reaffirmed when Nox was rebuilt on Belsavis by the Mother Machine. And not so much healed as Evolved. Nox was reconstructed and evolved at a molecular level, enabling her to not only handle the power of the ghosts effortlessly, but also to become far more powerful than she could have initially.

 

As for the immortality bit, it has to do with the unique way in which Nox is bound to the ghosts. She can't really be killed in a normal way. As it was explained, Nox's Life is intertwined with the Death of the ghosts, and vice versa. Meaning that, even if she were killed, the ghosts would revive her. There may be a limit onto how much damage she can take before it becomes impossible for the ghosts to bring her back, however it was never fully explained. Nox could end up as a more powerful version of Darth Sion from KotoR2, who could keep drawing from Dark Side Nexus' to hold his body together no matter how much damage is incurred. The only difference is Sion was held together by sheer willpower, whereas Nox can be held together by the power of the Ghosts alone.

 

When it comes to Force knowledge and overall sheer power, Nox is head'n shoulders above the Hero in every way. The only thing he really exceeds her in is pure saber skill. And yet it's been noted that Nox isn't a novice, and in fact has great skill with a lightsaber both from experience and from studying the writings and artifacts of Tulak Hord. The Hero is essentially a blunt instrument, a one-trick pony. While Nox is a full deck of cards, and all of them are wild.

 

Simply put, Nox has more cards to play than the Hero, and while the Hero does have a great resistance to esoteric abilities, as shown in his fight with Vitiate, it's that this time the Hero isn't fighting a weakened and drained opponent. Nox will be at the peak of her ability and is a serious threat without having to summon the power of the ghosts. Using them would turn an already intense uphill battle for the Hero into a complete landslide victory for Nox.

[DudeinFlames]

I'm seeing quite a bit of false info and exaggerations here. Let's do some correcting.

 

It was never said Baras was stronger than Thanaton, nor implied. It was only said that Baras was near invulnerable, implying he spent most of his strength towards his defenses rather than his offensive strength. In the "Blood of the Empire" comic, Baras was roughly 100+lbs lighter than he is when the Wrath first meets him. Those events were some 20+yrs earlier. In that time, Baras is indicated to having retracted himself from outward fighting and has since been lacking in actual combat. Preferring to use spies and assassins and a silver tongue as opposed to his Force Powers and combat skills.

 

On the other hand, Thanaton kept learning Force rituals and dark side secrets since those events. It was also stated that Baras had sustained grievous injury during the war when he fought with Jedi Master Noman Karr, and the two held a grudge against each other ever since. Baras is indeed strong, but to say he's stronger than Thanaton is quite a stretch.

No. No it's not. You don't convince people on the Dark Council you are the Voice of the Emperor, which is believed to be as powerful as the Emperor, by being weaker than anyone in the room. Quite a few people actually believed Baras was the Voice. If Thanaton was more powerful, and he was alive during the entire power play, no one would. Your opinions on his weight or what you think Thanaton was actually doing are irrelevant.

Also, those going on about how the Hero of Tython solo'd Vitiate are clearly exaggerating those events. Many forgetting or simply ignoring the fact that Vitiate was greatly weakened by the time they fought. His Voice had been killed, many of his Children were killed and other servants connected to his power and consciousness were also killed, diminishing his power greatly. As did his struggle with Sel-Makor on Voss. Vitiate's power was diminished not only by the Knight's actions, but by the Barsen'thor's and the Wrath's as well. Plus a few other tidbits in other class stories as well. Vitiate was perhaps the weakest he's ever been, and still put up quite a fight.

No, the only thing that weakened Vitiate was the ritual. None of those other things affected him in the slightest, nor are they ever stated to

As for Nox/Inquisitor, Nox was incredibly powerful at the start. This much was undeniable. And while having a powerful ancestor doesn't mean Nox can be as powerful as him (Kallig), it is heavily implied through the story that Nox has surpassed both Kallig and Tulak Hord. Khem Val seems to acknowledge this as well. More than anything Nox required the ghosts not so much to match Thanaton in power, but to overcome the gap in knowledge Thanaton had over Nox. In order to overcome Thanaton's greater Knowledge of the Force, Nox required enough power to cover that gap and make his more esoteric Force abilities completely worthless.

No, no he does not. Constantly throughout the story Khem keeps telling the Inquisitor that they are nowhere near as powerful as they think they are, and Nox was never "incredibly powerful" at the start. Force Knowledge only takes you so far, in the end Thanaton defeated Nox because he was stronger than them at the Force in that point in the story. Nox is nowhere near as powerful as Tulak Hord was implied to be and logically never will be.

Also, people are mistaken about a few things concerning Nox's story. The collicoid thing, for one, was meant to be temporary according to the serum. However it did appear to bond with Nox in some way and altered Nox's genetic makeup. This is acknowledged by the devices on Rishi. This can also be reaffirmed when Nox was rebuilt on Belsavis by the Mother Machine. And not so much healed as Evolved. Nox was reconstructed and evolved at a molecular level, enabling her to not only handle the power of the ghosts effortlessly, but also to become far more powerful than she could have initially.

Again, these are more opinions. The serum changing their genetic makeup doesn't mean the effects from it were permanent nor desirable, nor does having a body more able to handle ghosts make Nox more powerful in the Force.

As for the immortality bit, it has to do with the unique way in which Nox is bound to the ghosts. She can't really be killed in a normal way. As it was explained, Nox's Life is intertwined with the Death of the ghosts, and vice versa. Meaning that, even if she were killed, the ghosts would revive her. There may be a limit onto how much damage she can take before it becomes impossible for the ghosts to bring her back, however it was never fully explained. Nox could end up as a more powerful version of Darth Sion from KotoR2, who could keep drawing from Dark Side Nexus' to hold his body together no matter how much damage is incurred. The only difference is Sion was held together by sheer willpower, whereas Nox can be held together by the power of the Ghosts alone.

Nox's immortality should never come into play when dealing with who is more powerful in the Force, as any such match up should. This is about who will defeat the other.

When it comes to Force knowledge and overall sheer power, Nox is head'n shoulders above the Hero in every way. The only thing he really exceeds her in is pure saber skill. And yet it's been noted that Nox isn't a novice, and in fact has great skill with a lightsaber both from experience and from studying the writings and artifacts of Tulak Hord. The Hero is essentially a blunt instrument, a one-trick pony. While Nox is a full deck of cards, and all of them are wild.

Where has Nox been shown to have superior knowledge in the Force to anyone? Gameplay mechanics aside, the only non-Force Walk ritual I've actually seen Nox do failed.

Simply put, Nox has more cards to play than the Hero, and while the Hero does have a great resistance to esoteric abilities, as shown in his fight with Vitiate, it's that this time the Hero isn't fighting a weakened and drained opponent. Nox will be at the peak of her ability and is a serious threat without having to summon the power of the ghosts. Using them would turn an already intense uphill battle for the Hero into a complete landslide victory for Nox.

You started this post out talking about opinions but that seems to be the entire basis of your argument, that argument pretty much being, "Nox has a lot of writings that Tulak Hord had, and even though the Sith have seen most of these for centuries, it's definitely going to give Nox the edge, because it's Nox. Nox changed their body, and that makes them more powerful in the Force, somehow, even though this was never said anywhere. Finally, Nox's master of the Force is unparalleled, even if every other protagonist is stated to be legendary masters in their story, because again it's Nox and they are comparable to Tulak Hord."

[Aeneas_Falco]

I think when it comes to Zash's training, you have to do a bit of head canon. Same with Yuon's. If you just go with the idea that it all took one day to do all you did, then no emotional connection is made, and that just isn't how the story plays out. Sadly, being a game and an MMO one at that, they can only do so much.

 

I think from a story perspective there is a lot of training or knowledge being passed on that occurs off-screen. There is a passing reference made to it in the Sith Warrior storyline, where another apprentice of your master says that your mutual master shared more information or training with him than you.

 

Of course this is probably more of a thing with the Jedi than the Sith, since the Sith are both selfish and fear their apprentices, leading to them always holding some information or training back to give them an edge, but to some extent the Sith Masters are probably supposed to be training their apprentices off screen as well.

 

 

I really doubt the Knight would have much chance, I don't see any scenario where the Knight wins. Nox is a powerhouse and probably the most potent force user of this time (aside from the Emperor).

 

If you think Darth Nox isn't more powerful than the Emperor, why do you think the Hero of Tython wouldn't stand a chance? The HoT defeated the Emperor, something Nox has yet to do.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Aeneas_Falco

[nimmerstil]

... in the end Thanaton defeated Nox because he was stronger than them at the Force in that point in the story.

This is not correct, and is stated in the game, Thanaton used a Force Ritual.

 

Nox is nowhere near as powerful as Tulak Hord was implied to be and logically never will be.

Khem disagrees. And he knew Tulak Hord better then you

 

 

This whole type of debate is useless. You don't accept game-mechanics, understandably, while the lore / story defined powers are bound to the needs of their stories at that point, and neither meant nor suitable for comparision.

 

Sidious was the most powerful of all, and yet you never see him do anything as spectacularly powerful as what you see in this game.

Edited October 13, 2015 by nimmerstil

[Rhyltran]

This is not correct, and is stated in the game, Thanaton used a Force Ritual.

 

Khem disagrees. And he knew Tulak Hord better then you

 

 

This whole type of debate is useless. You don't accept game-mechanics, understandably, while the lore / story defined powers are bound to the needs of their stories at that point, and neither meant nor suitable for comparision.

 

Sidious was the most powerful of all, and yet you never see him do anything as spectacularly powerful as what you see in this game.

 

In legends you do. Sidious releases wormholes that require no preparation that can destroy entire fleets and by Luke's own admission could destroy planets.

 

Given that this game is legends it's a valid statement.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Saelinne]

 

If you think Darth Nox isn't more powerful than the Emperor, why do you think the Hero of Tython wouldn't stand a chance? The HoT defeated the Emperor, something Nox has yet to do.

 

I wish I had not deleted the SW email,,,actually here is a youtube video with the e-mails

....explains how that was the true voice and not the emperor himself

 

For the one that said that the emperor's voice is as powerful as the emperor....I am sorry to say but....what are you smoking? If that was true then the SW (who can defeat him without needing to be as experienced as the HoT (not 50 yet) end up being more powerful than the emperor:)

The Voice have to be powerful don't get me wrong (he/she is too important piece for the Emperor to choose a weak one...especially among Sith), but AS powerful?...he/she needs to be controllable:)

Edited October 13, 2015 by Saelinne

[DudeinFlames]

This is not correct, and is stated in the game, Thanaton used a Force Ritual.

Yes. And that made Thanaton more powerful than Nox. The fact that something is a ritual, one that can be used in the middle of combat, does not have anything to do with why Nox was killed. Nox died because Nox wasn't strong enough to resist it, point blank. Sorcery isn't an auto-win.

Khem disagrees. And he knew Tulak Hord better then you

Which is nice and all, except Khem doesn't once say you're as powerful as Tulak Hord, and unless Nox used the Force to down a few frigates, I don't see him ever saying they are.

This whole type of debate is useless. You don't accept game-mechanics, understandably, while the lore / story defined powers are bound to the needs of their stories at that point, and neither meant nor suitable for comparision.

 

Sidious was the most powerful of all, and yet you never see him do anything as spectacularly powerful as what you see in this game.

Except summon wormholes at will that destroyed fleets, using Lightning that engulfs planets, blitz several Jedi Masters at once, and and defeated the guy who lifted an entire droid army while manipulating missiles and freighters. Hell, even in canon Sidious has turned lyleks to ash with Lightning. Vader has completely made some implode, demolished and TK'd AT-ATs, as well as soloing an entire Rebel fleet alone. Suffice to say, Nox while extremely powerful, is not in the tiers of Tulak Hord or the higher ups, even in canon.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DudeinFlames

[Aeneas_Falco]

In legends you do. Sidious releases wormholes that require no preparation that can destroy entire fleets and by Luke's own admission could destroy planets.

 

Given that this game is legends it's a valid statement.

 

Sidious also wasn't insane, at least in the film trilogy. Evil certainly, but his most monstrous crimes at least had some end goal that wasn't completely crazy. Vitiate, at least how he's been portrayed currently, seems to have either been driven to insanity by exposure to powerful dark side energies (a known risk in the lore) or by the trick where dies and respawns. Sith ghosts have also been known to suffer from insanity in the lore.

 

Vitiate's greatest displays of power seem motivated entirely by his insane end goal. Sidious may have had the same ability, but just didn't use it, because he hadn't lost his mind.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Aeneas_Falco

[nimmerstil]

In legends you do. Sidious releases wormholes that require no preparation that can destroy entire fleets and by Luke's own admission could destroy planets.

 

sigh.

 

You don't seriously expect me to do anything with that ****?

 

Given that this game is legends it's a valid statement.

In Legends everything is isolated.

[nimmerstil]

Yes. And that made Thanaton more powerful than Nox. The fact that something is a ritual, one that can be used in the middle of combat, does not have anything to do with why Nox was killed. Nox died because Nox wasn't strong enough to resist it, point blank. Sorcery isn't an auto-win.

 

Context, why do ignore the context? It was about strength in the force and knowledge of Force Rituals. Thanaton had half of a century of advantage

 

Which is nice and all, except Khem doesn't once say you're as powerful as Tulak Hord,

He is quite content to put you as his new Dark Lord. Quite the compliment coming from him

 

Except summon wormholes at will that destroyed fleets, using Lightning that engulfs planets,

Only the movies are valid. Only children pay attention to the Legends crap. Man, that people can read some of that crap without throwing up. Edited October 13, 2015 by nimmerstil

[Rhyltran]

Context, why do ignore the context? It was about strength in the force and knowledge of Force Rituals. Thanaton had half of a century of advantage

 

 

He is quite content to put you as his new Dark Lord. Quite the compliment coming from him

 

Only the movies are valid. Only children pay attention to the Legends crap. Man, that people can read some of that crap without throwing up.

 

This game has a being who can become a disembodied spirit and eat planets yet being able to create planet destroying wormholes is where you draw the line? Lol. This game is Legends. Legends isn't isolated. This game was created under the premise that there will eventually be a darth bane who will create a rule of two who will eventually lead to the culmination of the greatest Sith. It was created in a time where everything had to be matched up and linked together.

 

Why do you find Sidious so ridiculous but the concept of Vitiate isn't? We're talking about a guy who not only killed all living things on the planet but turned the entire planet grey. Devoid of color, smells, and leaving a feeling of emptiness but that isn't ridiculous? Come on. A guy who every time we defeat him we dance to the tune of "But your princess is in another castle!" (aka. That wasn't my real body!)

 

There's people who are tired of the entire Revan/Vitiate angle. We're talking about a man who has lived for several thousands years constantly switching bodies, eating life of several planets, and losing over and over "but it doesn't matter because it wasn't his main body." There's people who are tired of killing vitiate over and over again. Some of us want to see a new villain but Sidious with one return is suddenly bad?

 

Finally the bold. This game is legends. You pay attention to this game's lore. You're paying attention to legends. Be careful what you say. Also it's ironic because most of us who read that comic even if we were young at the time are definitely no longer children.

 

Personally I feel the least bias. You know why? I state Sidious is the strongest not because he's my favorite Sith. It's because in lucas canon? He is. In movie canon? He is. In legends canon? Facts state he is but you know what? I am tired of Vitiate and at least Sidious when he returned they didn't take years to write him off completely. They're both ridiculous characters. My favorite Jedi of all time is Obi Wan Kenobi. My favorite Sith of all time is Count Dooku. I like characters with strengths, weaknesses, flaws, and have to overcome the odds not just with "I AM SO POWERFUL RAWR" but with actual tactics. Cunning. Manipulation.

 

Vitiate and Sidious are boring.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Rhyltran

[nimmerstil]

This game has a being who can become a disembodied spirit and eat planets yet being able to create planet destroying wormholes is where you draw the line?

That's what I said, didn't I? I included this game as beyond the line.

 

Lol. This game is Legends. Legends isn't isolated.

Off course it is, too many discontinuities to reconcile everything, hence, everything is isolated.

 

This game was created under the premise that there will eventually be a darth bane who will create a rule of two who will eventually lead to the culmination of the greatest Sith.

Really? You got access to the design documents. And what does it matter.

 

It was created in a time where everything had to be matched up and linked together.

They failed. Obviously.

I think Disney agrees.

Why do you find Sidious so ridiculous but the concept of Vitiate isn't?

Who said I didn't find Vitiate ridiculous? All these superpowers are the result of third rate writers lacking the creativity to come up with an interesting plot.

If any of that was in the class stories (those I've plaued so far) I wouldn't have played/finished them.

 

We're talking about a guy who not only killed all living things on the planet but turned the entire planet grey

Any idea how this sounds?

 

There's people who are tired of the entire Revan/Vitiate angle.

Wow, at last. I am not alone. Revan should have stayed in KotOR-1 (the bits in 2 were fine).

 

Some of us want to see a new villain but Sidious with one return is suddenly bad?

You are right actually, it's not just the over the top superpowers - the really sad thing is they become their own satire - it is that he returns.

 

Finally the bold. This game is legends. You pay attention to this game's lore. You're paying attention to legends. Be careful what you say.

Or what? Vitiate's insulted?

Also it's ironic because most of us who read that comic even if we were young at the time are definitely no longer children.

I see, so that's what these x-vs-y power discussions are not? Edited October 13, 2015 by nimmerstil

[Rhyltran]

That's what I said, didn't I? I included this game as beyond the line.

 

Off course it is, too many discontinuities to reconcile everything, hence, everything is isolated.

 

 

Really? You got access to the design documents. And what does it matter.

 

They failed. Obviously.

I think Disney agrees.

Who said I didn't find Vitiate ridiculous? All these superpowers are the result of third rate writers lacking the creativity to come up with an interesting plot.

If any of that was in the class stories (those I've plaued so far) I wouldn't have played/finished them.

 

 

Any idea how this sounds?

 

 

Wow, at last. I am not alone. Revan should have stayed in KotOR-1 (the bits in 2 were fine).

 

You are right actually, it's not just the over the top superpowers - the really sad thing is they become their own satire - it is that he returns.

 

 

Or what? Vitiate's insulted?

I see, so that's what these x-vs-y power discussions are not?

 

So it seems after reading this we kind of agree and are talking over each other. Here's the problem though. In the end in this game we do have a world eating entity. There are cases where _ can't beat _ because _ is a world eating entity.

 

As for the legends material and your mention of documents? When they made this game it was under the previous story group. They worked in hand with the Lucas story team. Everything they did had to go under the G, C, T, S, and N canon lines. The SWTOR encyclopedia alone mentions future events that take place later in the continuity. This game was meant to take place in the past and not a seperate universe.

 

The rules of canon were created by Leland Chee who was hired by Lucas for the sole reason in making things flow and mesh. Did the old canon contradict itself? Sure it did. Quite often but that's why the rules explicitly stated "Future C Canon overwrites previous C Canon" so contradictions were more ret-cons.

 

Either way SWTOR still operates under this premise.. There are force users who are so powerful that even if someone is really skilled it doesn't matter because guy B is so much stronger, faster, and more powerful than Guy A that Guy A's skill doesn't matter.

 

Call it very old school if you will but SWTOR is like that and it's not going to change. In the consular story you're beating down masters as a mere apprentice just after graduating as a Jedi. In your first real mission you defeat your own master who you just met not that long ago.

 

This isn't the movies so Disney's opinion doesn't matter here. This is SWTOR and just like you I want to see Vitiate's story come to a close.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Rhyltran

[DudeinFlames]

Context, why do ignore the context? It was about strength in the force and knowledge of Force Rituals. Thanaton had half of a century of advantage

He also had a power advantage, which is why Nox died. Nox knows how to defend against ritual attacks just like almost every Sith or Jedi out there. The idea that more time = more power and advantage is false. The Hero of Tython, for instance, goes up against plenty of experienced sorcerers and more experienced duelists and still wins every time. Many of them are Dark Council level, one even turning a position down. Experience only gets you so far.

He is quite content to put you as his new Dark Lord. Quite the compliment coming from him

Also quite irrelevant to the point. At no time does Khem say you are stronger, or even as strong, as Tulak Hord, and Nox doesn't have a single showing to make me believe they are either. Safe to say, Nox isn't as strong as Hord or Kallig.

Only the movies are valid. Only children pay attention to the Legends crap. Man, that people can read some of that crap without throwing up.

Too bad most of what I said was completely canon. Only the Force Storms wasn't, and it's so minor I'm wondering why you completely ignored everything else that is canon. Every book released after the pruning, hell even Vader lifts AT-STs in Rebels, is canon. So are the comics. This is how canon works now, and everything is just as valid as everything else.

Edited October 14, 2015 by DudeinFlames

[Kitelol]

Let's be honest, the Jedi Knight has the biggest plot armor out of all the eight heroes. He/she wins against Nox every time.

[nimmerstil]

So it seems after reading this we kind of agree and are talking over each other. Here's the problem though. In the end in this game we do have a world eating entity. There are cases where _ can't beat _ because _ is a world eating entity.

 

As for the legends material and your mention of documents? When they made this game it was under the previous story group. They worked in hand with the Lucas story team. Everything they did had to go under the G, C, T, S, and N canon lines. The SWTOR encyclopedia alone mentions future events that take place later in the continuity. This game was meant to take place in the past and not a seperate universe.

 

And Sidious is not in it, not by any stretch.

In the movies, the real SW universe, he is not nearly as spectacularly powerful, yet he is the most powerful force user in the Galaxy. And he dies. What happens with him in the rest of Legends is only illustrative of my example, all these superpowers are completely out of proportion with what the Force is, and can do, in the movies.

 

The rules of canon were created by Leland Chee ...

It failed, big time. You'd even wonder why 'canon' exists. Why do you think it exists? What is it really supposed to do?

 

The post that sparked this sub was not about Sidious, who was only an example

[nimmerstil]

Let's be honest, the Jedi Knight has the biggest plot armor out of all the eight heroes. He/she wins against Nox every time.

True

 

He also had a power advantage, which is why Nox died. Nox knows how to defend against ritual attacks just like almost every Sith or Jedi out there.

 

No, Thanaton uses a ritual, explicitly identified as such. And the Inquisitor needa to learn a ritual to be able to defend against it.

 

And ... it's not like there are no examples of ritual attacks or techniques that characters have no defense against - when plot demands it there's all kinds of incapacitating, draining, stunning, life stealing, deadly, eic .... force rituals that our plot characters, friend and foe alike, have no defense against. And then they usually learn something to be better able to face that foe in a future confrontation.

 

The idea that more time = more power and advantage is false.

 

No, actually it is not. Elsewhere the point that with midi-chlorians count a given for any force user, and thus connection to the Force a constant, any increase in power was due to knowledge, experience and training. Which seems rather plausible, given that both Jedi and Sith train, for many years. If what yo say were true, not of that would be necessary

 

The Hero of Tython, for instance, goes up against plenty of experienced sorcerers and more experienced duelists and still wins every time.

 

Off course, it's called PLOT. Those wins are necessary to advance the story, at the same time the confrontations are supposed to be challenges, feats of awesomeness that fit with that specific type of story.

 

Safe to say, Nox isn't as strong as Hord or Kallig.

Pointless statement, they're all dead, it's impossible to prove either way. All we know is that Khem suddenly stops complaining about his fate and being bound to Imperius.

 

Every book released after the pruning, .

Bah, I suppose you've been missing the last couple of posts about the crap that is in Legends. Basically you can tell how bad a writer is by the size of the superpowers he uses in his plot. Anyway, all those powers, no matter how ludicrous, were in place because of the requirements of the plot they were used in. You can not compare them across different stories, making These kind of x-vs-y debates are pointless, on top of being childish. Edited October 14, 2015 by nimmerstil

[Aeneas_Falco]

I wish I had not deleted the SW email,,,actually here is a youtube video with the e-mails

....explains how that was the true voice and not the emperor himself

 

For the one that said that the emperor's voice is as powerful as the emperor....I am sorry to say but....what are you smoking? If that was true then the SW (who can defeat him without needing to be as experienced as the HoT (not 50 yet) end up being more powerful than the emperor:)

The Voice have to be powerful don't get me wrong (he/she is too important piece for the Emperor to choose a weak one...especially among Sith), but AS powerful?...he/she needs to be controllable:)

 

In Shadow of Revan Darth Marr confirms that the Jedi Knight fought and defeated the Emperor, saying that he/she wounded his spirit more deeply than any other person ever has, before adding that it is impossible for any single person to kill the Emperor.

 

The Voice isn't an entirely separate entity from the Emperor, it's just a body that the Emperor's ghost possesses in order to allow him to avoid being permanently killed if he's defeated. If you fight the Voice, you're fighting the Emperor. The codex entry on the Voices also confirms that.

 

From the Sith Warrior codex entry on the Voice:

 

"For centuries, the Emperor’s Voice has delivered the Sith leader’s commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor’s Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice’s body. "

 

Note that it specifically states that the Emperor possesses the Voice, and that the Voice also contains all the Emperor's power. The Voice is the Emperor, and is not just an indoctrinated mook ala Mass Effect.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Aeneas_Falco

[Saelinne]

[quote=Aeneas_Falco;8505093

From the Sith Warrior codex entry on the Voice:

 

"For centuries, the Emperor’s Voice has delivered the Sith leader’s commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor’s Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice’s body. "

 

.

 

The codex might mean power as in the Emperor's influence...or it might mean power as in pure force power as you believe...so just keep that in mind since if the Voice is AS powerful as the emperor then the Sith Warrior is (arguably) alot more powerful than the Emperor and all the worry by Darth Marr doesn't make sense:) (the SW encounter and defeats an Emperor's Voice earlier than the HoT)

[Joachimthbear]

The codex might mean power as in the Emperor's influence...or it might mean power as in pure force power as you believe...so just keep that in mind since if the Voice is AS powerful as the emperor then the Sith Warrior is (arguably) alot more powerful than the Emperor and all the worry by Darth Marr doesn't make sense:) (the SW encounter and defeats an Emperor's Voice earlier than the HoT)

As I understand it, when the Sith Warrior fights the Voice on Voss,

 

the Voice is being controlled by Sel-Makor. The Emperor's control over the Voice's body is being overridden, but he's still fighting to get it back. So the Warrior does not defeat the Emperor; on the contrary, the Emperor is actually helping the Warrior during that fight.

 

[Saelinne]

As I understand it, when the Sith Warrior fights the Voice on Voss,

 

the Voice is being controlled by Sel-Makor. The Emperor's control over the Voice's body is being overridden, but he's still fighting to get it back. So the Warrior does not defeat the Emperor; on the contrary, the Emperor is actually helping the Warrior during that fight.

 

Yes I know....but it is left to our imagination to decide whether the Emperor is still fighting once he lost the battle or not...so there is a (good imo) possibility that the SW actually battled the Voice at his true power...