Crafting Changes in Fallen Empire

[Foreignobjects]

i just wish the Black/Black , Primary Black only/ and secondary black only, also White/White , Black/White. all those rare as hell dyes should be craftable cause 12 mil is what they are ,,, 4 to 12 mil. its getting rediculous. and its 1600 cc for a black/black dye to buy now... thats just wrong... its more then a awesome armor set and more then a months sub to get the black dyes..... comon bioware

[Shwarzchild]

After refreshing my memory on what's to come tomorrow I have to admit I'm very excited to get to crafting. I have a great feeling about where crafting is going to go. Best change I've seen so far regarding KOTFE.

[eartharioch]

You pretty much directed me to that and when asked for clarification around it you ignored it twice and now go off on some nonsensical tangent around mats and schems. I doubt you even know what you mean anymore.

 

Since RI!F for you, let me repost what Khevar said:

For what it's worth, the dross cluttering my craftable item list was really getting annoying, so I agree that it will be nice to have a more concise list.

 

But think about the actual gear that's being crafted. It's not going to be deleted, it's going to be "translated". Someone is wearing a +Might implant on Monday is going to be wearing a +Mastery implant on Tuesday.

 

Wouldn't it have been good if had they done the same thing for schematics?

 

As I have said repeatedly, Khevar was talking about applying the same logic for *items* to *schematics*. That was the topic I addressed. Your attempt to make this a discussion about Schem X for Schem Y is a straw man. See what I did there? Probably not, but I'm sure you'll find some way to convince yourself that any response you give is you being clever again.

[Nvara]

Holy cats! 63 pages... Have we got a definite answer yet on what is happening with dropped schematics? Will we still be able to learn them after tomorrow? Even if stats change I still am missing several I might want for appearance-only gear.

 

 

Edit: And will they still be dropping?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Nvara

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Since RI!F for you, let me repost what Khevar said:

 

 

As I have said repeatedly, Khevar was talking about applying the same logic for *items* to *schematics*. That was the topic I addressed. Your attempt to make this a discussion about Schem X for Schem Y is a straw man. See what I did there? Probably not, but I'm sure you'll find some way to convince yourself that any response you give is you being clever again.

 

Lol because mod X is getting replaced with mod Y you think that's a strawman argument to say we should get schematic X replaced with schematic Y? Here is a page for you and somewhat about you too.

 

I'm surprised you haven't written some "code" to support your argument yet as you did in a previous thread to demonstrate your "expertise" on these subjects, that was pretty humorous and I was hoping for some more laughs.

[Tsillah]

I thought the "increased yields from lower level nodes if you have high-level gathering" was a pretty decent incentive.

 

Haters gonna hate...they focus on what they can hate and ignore the things that are positive even for them.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Holy cats! 63 pages... Have we got a definite answer yet on what is happening with dropped schematics? Will we still be able to learn them after tomorrow? Even if stats change I still am missing several I might want for appearance-only gear.

 

 

Edit: And will they still be dropping?

 

This is about the best definitive answer you will get so far ( unless there is something in the patch notes I've yet to look up if they're even out ).

[Belthorian]

So in effect you are taking away ANY incentive to play with other people? You are taking away ANY incentive to do operations. This game is quickly changing from a MMO to a solo player game everyone pays for the privilege to play!

[Nvara]

Thanks for that link. So after tomorrow there will be players in the game that have schematics that new and returning players can NEVER get.

 

Not cool.

[IanArgent]

Thanks for that link. So after tomorrow there will be players in the game that have schematics that new and returning players can NEVER get.

 

Not cool.

 

We don't know if they'll be recycling the models for other schematics. Given that they already DO recycle schematics with minor recolors, I wouldn't bet on the archived gear remaining unique

[eartharioch]

Lol because mod X is getting replaced with mod Y you think that's a strawman argument to say we should get schematic X replaced with schematic Y? Here is a page for you and somewhat about you too.

Thanks for the link, feel free to demonstrate that you understand it sometime.

 

I'll try to put it in the simplest terms that I can, but I suspect they still won't be simple enough for you:

 

Khevar is talking about the item(3.x) -> item(4.0) translation. He said he wished that BW would apply the same logic for schem(3.x) -> schem(4.0). I pointed out that while items and schems both have stats, schems also have mats, so that would require more work, since (stats + mats) > (stats). I also conceded that it's *possible* that items have mats associated with them, but that (from our vantage point) it isn't necessarily so.

 

You are talking about replacing 3.x schematics with what you consider to be the closest 4.0 equivalent. That is *not* what Khevar was talking about, and not what my reply to him was about. You have set up a straw man. Maybe it wasn't intentional -- maybe you don't actually understand the difference between the two concepts, just as you didn't understand the difference between "simpler" and "ease the barrier of entry".

 

I'll try to make this as clear as I can. There are items in 3.x. Some of them have main stat, crit, and surge. Since BW is replacing those stats with Mastery, <nothing>, and Crit, BW needs to (well, 'should' is more technically accurate) make 4.0 versions of those items.

 

The vast majority of 3.x crafted items come from schematics obtained from the trainer (green) or RE'd from one of them (blue and purple). Other than for appearance, BW is removing the green trainer schematics and replacing them with blue ones that will RE to purple differently. BW didn't say that they were just giving trainers the blue versions which people can currently RE from green in pre-4.0, they said they are making new schematics which will (in most cases) be better than what was previously obtainable.

 

BW didn't say that they are replacing the old items with ones made with the new schematics. If that was the case, the yes, what you proposed (replacing old schematics with new ones) would make sense. But it isn't what they said. It may be what they do (since they haven't published a list of new schematics, I wouldn't know), and if so, I'd think it was pretty cheesy (not lazy), but we won't know for another day or so.

 

I'm surprised you haven't written some "code" to support your argument yet as you did in a previous thread to demonstrate your "expertise" on these subjects, that was pretty humorous and I was hoping for some more laughs.

Putting quotes around words you don't understand doesn't make you as smart as you seem to think you are.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Thanks for the link, feel free to demonstrate that you understand it sometime.

 

Ooo zing, that sounds sort of like "I know you are, but what am I" comments though and ...

 

Vague "I know you are, but what am I?" comments don't really hold up.

 

You said it.

 

-snip-

 

I made a comment, you in reply told me I was more or less wrong and to refer to your reply to Khevar. What Khevar meant or didn't mean is IRRELEVANT. You asked me to refer to it as though you were using said reply to refute my statement thus I can take your point to him as being addressed to me also ... "see my reply to Khevar".

 

I clarified to YOU want I meant in terms of work required and what I would have liked to see in very easy to understand ( well for MOST people, present company excluded ) terms.

 

You keep strawmaning this by telling me what you believe Khevar meant ... to paraphrase The Rock ... "It doesn't matter what Khevar meant!".

You are debating ( well I wouldn't even call what you've attempted here that, that would be being too generous - failing to save face would be closer to the truth ) what I mean and infer as being too much work or too hard work here.

 

Regardless of that what is funny is this - quoted from Khevar:

 

They're already mapping gear X -> gear Y in one's inventory. It wouldn't have been that different to do the same thing for schematics, other than the fact that many schematics have moved to a different profession entirely.

 

How is that not wanting them to replace our existing schematics with the replacement ones exactly?

 

I have enhancement X today, I will have enhancement Y tomorrow. I have purple schematic X today, I won't have it tomorrow.

 

How are you failing to understand the most basic of concepts that the wish was they had applied the same logic to schematics as they did to mods?

 

But think about the actual gear that's being crafted. It's not going to be deleted, it's going to be "translated". Someone is wearing a +Might implant on Monday is going to be wearing a +Mastery implant on Tuesday.

 

Wouldn't it have been good if had they done the same thing for schematics?

 

That was what Khevar said, that was what I agreed with him on and elaborated my own point of view.

 

There are schematics that will replace the ones I had before in the game - they aren't identical but neither is the gear being replaced. They should have gone down the same path for gear as they did for schematics ... it's that SIMPLE.

 

Putting quotes around words you don't understand doesn't make you as smart as you seem to think you are.

 

= "I know you are, but what am I" comments and "Vague "I know you are, but what am I?" comments don't really hold up"

 

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Thanks for that link. So after tomorrow there will be players in the game that have schematics that new and returning players can NEVER get.

 

Not cool.

 

IKR? Yet they removed our companion achievements because what ... they thought it wouldn't be fair on players who couldn't get them yet encouraged us to get the Makeb ones before those were no longer able to be gained ( and would I assume be staying in the game? ).

 

Hypocrisy is strong with BW.

[eartharioch]

There are schematics that will replace the ones I had before in the game - they aren't identical but neither is the gear being replaced. They should have gone down the same path for gear as they did for schematics ... it's that SIMPLE.

 

Except...schematics have mats and gear doesn't...which was my original point. You don't know how much extra work it would have taken, so your opinion that they *should* have done it is baseless. *Could* they have done it (and still shipped on schedule)? Maybe.

 

But to say *should* without addressing *at what cost* is stupid. People have asked for Legacy Datacrons for ages. BW said "if we can fit in", and then ended up fitting it in. Should BW have revised our schematics instead of giving us Legacy Datacrons? I'm not saying I would object to BW converting our schematics, but it's just not that big of a deal to me, and *overall* I like the changes they're making, so I'm not going to bust their balls over minor details that I can overcome within a week.

[eartharioch]

IKR? Yet they removed our companion achievements because what ... they thought it wouldn't be fair on players who couldn't get them yet encouraged us to get the Makeb ones before those were no longer able to be gained ( and would I assume be staying in the game? ).

 

Hypocrisy is strong with BW.

 

Lol, I'd think that somebody as studiously not claiming to have any sw knowledge as you could connect the dots and at least make an educated guess as to why certain achievements were removed.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Except...schematics have mats and gear doesn't...which was my original point. You don't know how much extra work it would have taken, so your opinion that they *should* have done it is baseless. *Could* they have done it (and still shipped on schedule)? Maybe.

 

 

Congratulations, you've now come full circle in your argument and are making about as little sense and showing as little comprehension for it as you did when it begun *clap clap*.

 

They have already added the materials to the schematics. The schematics that are effectively the replacement will exist as of a few hours time for you to see. THUS there is NO extra work regarding materials being in schematics - it's just text on a page. We're not asking them to swap our mats AND our schematics to match the new scehmatics after all which is the only way you're logic would make any sense in regards to extra work.

 

 

But to say *should* without addressing *at what cost* is stupid. People have asked for Legacy Datacrons for ages. BW said "if we can fit in", and then ended up fitting it in. Should BW have revised our schematics instead of giving us Legacy Datacrons? I'm not saying I would object to BW converting our schematics, but it's just not that big of a deal to me, and *overall* I like the changes they're making, so I'm not going to bust their balls over minor details that I can overcome within a week.

 

The schematics are revised, we want the revised one to replace our deleted ones.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Lol, I'd think that somebody as studiously not claiming to have any sw knowledge as you could connect the dots and at least make an educated guess as to why certain achievements were removed.

 

*yawn* there is a whole topic on that issue, go make your argument there and explain to everyone else whatever absurd point you have to make on the topic.

 

No need to start acting the troll.

[eartharioch]

Congratulations, you've now come full circle in your argument and are making about as little sense and showing as little comprehension for it as you did when it begun *clap clap*.

I don't think you understand what a "full circle" is. I haven't been going around anything, this is what I have been saying the entire time. *You* are the one who is spinning around.

 

They have already added the materials to the schematics. The schematics that are effectively the replacement will exist as of a few hours time for you to see. THUS there is NO extra work regarding materials being in schematics - it's just text on a page. We're not asking them to swap our mats AND our schematics to match the new scehmatics after all which is the only way you're logic would make any sense in regards to extra work.

Learn. To. Read. It's fundamental. I am not talking about schematics that will (in your words, not BW's) "effectively" replace existing ones. That conversation is entirely in your head, and you are the only one participating. I was replying to Khevar (and your reply to Khevar), and the topic was him wanting BW to give us schematics for the items with which they replace current items. BW has not indicated that the replacement items will be ones that we can learn to craft in the new system.

 

The schematics are revised, we want the revised one to replace our deleted ones.

1) What schematics have been revised? Old schematics are being deleted or moved to an archive, and new schematics are being added. BW has said nothing about *revising* existing schematics.

2) You are a singular person. You do not represent "we" or "us".

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I don't think you understand what a "full circle" is. I haven't been going around anything, this is what I have been saying the entire time. *You* are the one who is spinning around.

 

I know you ... said you are ... etc. At least try to put forward a logical argument instead "no I'm not doing these things, you are!".

 

Sad.

 

 

Learn. To. Read. It's fundamental. I am not talking about schematics that will (in your words, not BW's) "effectively" replace existing ones. That conversation is entirely in your head, and you are the only one participating. I was replying to Khevar (and your reply to Khevar), and the topic was him wanting BW to give us schematics for the items with which they replace current items. BW has not indicated that the replacement items will be ones that we can learn to craft in the new system.

 

I get it you're a wee bit slow and I've tried my best to make this whole argument as remedial as possible for your sake but you're really just beyond help it would seem ( or just plain trolling, you seem the type ).

 

I made a statement to Khevar, you made a statement to me referencing a reply to Khevar as a counter to my statement, I replied, you pretended like I'm talking about something else that I'm not.

Now you try to strawman the whole thing in to what Khevar may or may not have meant when really you are supposed to be arguing against MY points, not Khevar's. OTHERWISE you shouldn't have responded to anything I said in the first place unless you were going to debate what I SAID, not what Khevar said.

I'm not replying on behalf of Khevar here to your argument against him, he's more than capable of doing that himself so stop bringing him into it.

 

 

1) What schematics have been revised? Old schematics are being deleted or moved to an archive, and new schematics are being added. BW has said nothing about *revising* existing schematics.

2) You are a singular person. You do not represent "we" or "us".

 

Old ones removed and new ones brought in in their place with the combined stats ( mastery/crit ) ... kinda of like something being replaced or revised ... academic really.

 

Being that I agreed with what Khevar POSTED which was simply:

 

But think about the actual gear that's being crafted. It's not going to be deleted, it's going to be "translated". Someone is wearing a +Might implant on Monday is going to be wearing a +Mastery implant on Tuesday.

 

Wouldn't it have been good if had they done the same thing for schematics?"

 

I agreed with that, thus there is your "we".

[eartharioch]

I made a statement to Khevar, you made a statement to me referencing a reply to Khevar as a counter to my statement, I replied, you pretended like I'm talking about something else that I'm not.

This was the statement you made to Khevar:

Yup and just removed the double ups, sounds too much like hard work though.

 

You are agreeing with him, not contradicting him. You didn't create a new topic. The only topic I am addressing is the one brought up by Khevar and replied to by you. If you aren't interested in discussing that topic, quit doing so. I'm not interested in discussing your topic, so I'm not. Pretending that my comments are addressed to your topic is quite literally the definition of a straw man argument.

 

Now you try to strawman the whole thing in to what Khevar may or may not have meant when really you are supposed to be arguing against MY points, not Khevar's. OTHERWISE you shouldn't have responded to anything I said in the first place unless you were going to debate what I SAID, not what Khevar said.

I'm not replying on behalf of Khevar here to your argument against him, he's more than capable of doing that himself so stop bringing him into it.

I'm assuming that Khevar had no problem understanding what I wrote (or just didn't care). I don't care what you think about unrelated topics. Refusing to address your personal/side topics is not "making a straw man".

 

Old ones removed and new ones brought in in their place with the combined stats ( mastery/crit ) ... kinda of like something being replaced or revised ... academic really.

It's not an "academic" difference (which usually means "something that only people smarter than me understand", btw). Until we actually see what the new stats are compared to the old ones, we can't really tell if something is a direct replacement (same stats, char level, and item level).

 

Alternately, "yes" this is an academic distinction. If you aren't comfortable in such a discussion, you can always find one at your level.

Edited October 20, 2015 by eartharioch

[SelinaH]

Just checked my garden in-game. Stronghold gathering nodes still seem to be intact. Nodes previously associated with now-deprecated/removed resources provide other materials of the same tier.

 

Tested on a Blue Nutrient Bud which previously gave Blue Goo (Grade 3 Biochem Compound) but today provided me with Hallucinogenic Compound (Grade 3 Biochem Compound) and Bio-Energy Cell Sample (Grade 3 Biochem Sample).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This was the statement you made to Khevar:

 

 

You are agreeing with him, not contradicting him. You didn't create a new topic. The only topic I am addressing is the one brought up by Khevar and replied to by you. If you aren't interested in discussing that topic, quit doing so. I'm not interested in discussing your topic, so I'm not. Pretending that my comments are addressed to your topic is quite literally the definition of a straw man argument.

 

OK so

You are agreeing with him,

and

The only topic I am addressing is the one brought up by Khevar and replied to by you

however

I'm not interested in discussing your topic, so I'm not.

.

 

Right ... because apparently according to that they are the same topic that you want to address but you don't want to discuss it ... even though you've done so for numerous pages so far.

 

Pure gold mate lol. :lol:

 

I'm assuming that Khevar had no problem understanding what I wrote (or just didn't care). I don't care what you think about unrelated topics. Refusing to address your personal/side topics is not "making a straw man".

 

Sure it is - you're replying to me, not Khevar. I get that we're both rather intellectual fellows so you could probably confuse us from your perspective but sorry ... we're not the same person.

 

It's not an "academic" difference (which usually means "something that only people smarter than me understand", btw). Until we actually see what the new stats are compared to the old ones, we can't really tell if something is a direct replacement (same stats, char level, and item level).

 

Something gets removed ... something takes it place ... wait wait I got it, maybe if I took in non-sensical eartharioch "code" you might get it ...

 

10. Remove old schematic

20. Create new schematic

30. Don't give people new schematic in replacement because that's now too many steps.

 

Heh.

 

 

Alternately, "yes" this is an academic distinction. If you aren't comfortable in such a discussion, you can always find one at your level.

 

I should find one at my level, I almost feel like a bully arguing with someone at a more remedial level like yourself in this discussion but *shrug* can't have you go around thinking you're right spouting the nonsense you've sputed, that won't do the internet any good.

[eartharioch]

Right ... because apparently according to that they are the same topic that you want to address but you don't want to discuss it ... even though you've done so for numerous pages so far.

Your *original* reply agreed with Khevar about his topic. Your subsequent postings deal with a different topic. Applying my response to your original reply (which addressed Khevar's topic) to your new topic is strawmanning.

 

Sure it is - you're replying to me, not Khevar. I get that we're both rather intellectual fellows so you could probably confuse us from your perspective but sorry ... we're not the same person.

It's highly unlikely (at best) that I would ever mistake you with somebody I considered to be an intellectual fellow.

 

Something gets removed ... something takes it place ... wait wait I got it, maybe if I took in non-sensical eartharioch "code" you might get it ...

 

10. Remove old schematic

20. Create new schematic

30. Don't give people new schematic in replacement because that's now too many steps.

 

Heh.

You really do think you're clever, don't you? Well, since you seem to like your petard so much, let's hoist you with it:

10 Convert Item A (created from Schematic A) to Item B

20 Delete schematic for Item A

30 Create Schematic C that generates Item C

 

Until we can log in and see what the new schematics are (since BW didn't post them), we don't know if Items B and Items C are identical or not. IF Items B and C are equal, and BW doesn't give people who had Schematics (A) [plural because as you noted, multiple 3.x items might all convert to the same 4.0 item) Schematic C, that would be really lame. I do agree with you on that. What I don't agree with is you assuming that Items B and C will be equal.

 

IMO (not that you value Os that don't agree with you), I'm expecting Items C to be slightly better than Items B (as BW said that in general they would be), just so that BW can justify not giving us Schematics C. There are (or at least were) plenty of items in game (e.g., various green/blue drops, planetary vendor merchandise) that we couldn't craft, and for which the game presumably had no schematics, so I don't see a reason to assume that every item in 4.0 will have a corresponding schematic. That is, there is no reason to assume that Schematic B will exist.

 

I should find one at my level, I almost feel like a bully arguing with someone at a more remedial level like yourself in this discussion but *shrug* can't have you go around thinking you're right spouting the nonsense you've sputed, that won't do the internet any good.

Thanks for sharing that Daily Affirmation, Stuart.

Edited October 20, 2015 by eartharioch

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Your *original* reply agreed with Khevar about his topic. Your subsequent postings deal with a different topic. Applying my response to your original reply (which addressed Khevar's topic) to your new topic is strawmanning.

 

Yes you're strawmanning, glad you agree.

 

It's highly unlikely (at best) that I would ever mistake you with somebody I considered to be an intellectual fellow.

 

Boom what a come back ... you're on fire!

 

-snip for sanity-

 

I don't even care what stats are being upgraded or not, I don't care what mats are in it or not.

If I had schematic X and they remove it I should get schematic Y that they are putting in it's place as the replacement schematic I can craft for that level.

Your entire initial argument was around the amount of work etc. it would be and if they already made the schematics, added the materials etc. etc. then the argument remains it would sfa work to replace them.

 

Anything else you have to say around them being the same strength etc. is just a strawman argument in regards to the initial argument which was how hard or extra work it would be for BW to replace said schems in the manner I've outlined.

 

You can try worm your way out of your initial arguments all you like, you could even try and edit your initial posts that prove your a strawman here ( though I doubt that edits my quotation of them but who knows ) but it will never change the fact you're just a strawman, ain't no crows around these parts.

 

 

Thanks for sharing that Daily Affirmation, Stuart.

[eartharioch]

I don't even care what stats are being upgraded or not, I don't care what mats are in it or not.

Well, it sure took you a long time to admit that.

Edited October 20, 2015 by eartharioch