Why do MMOs punish longtime players

[Celise]

Except in the case of one of the bowcasters (which has been sold for a while), they're not being sold for CC though... just putting a vendor that takes multiple vendor currencies per item (IE 10 Rakghoul DNA Canister, 10 Gray Helix, 10 Bounty Contracts for 1 piece).

 

The PTS prices are pretty insanely high, to the point of discouragement: I've had nothing to buy with event currency for a long while, so have just sat on them... I don't think I can afford a single armor set with what I have. They're asking for a LOT of currency right now.

 

Considering how randomly the events come around, it's very discouraging.

 

thats likely a placeholder for an actual price at a later date because no one in their right mind would be wiling to wait months between events for at most 3-4 pieces within 1 week long events each, it would take years to get the whole set and that is rather absurd, add in that the rak, gree and bounty npcs offer up gear for their tokens as well. it would be a double whammy.

 

im reserving judgement if its going to be changed or not, but from my own opinion i cant see how those prices are going to be met for the more intermediate to casual gamers who dont have the time to grind these things with 10 or more characters...

[CabelHarn]

I'll never understand the mentality of keeping rare items that are just for looks rarer somehow makes things better for people who were around for them initially. I've been playing since late-beta, have all the event stuff I could want (I've only ever seen 1 person wearing the blood-stained sand people armor I have from one of the early events that doesn't return, I use it on my main BH) and couldn't care less if they re-release this limited time stuff to others. For one, some people weren't even playing then so they literally have had no way to get it, secondly it's all for looks and frankly it should be about giving people as many options as possible to look the way they want so they feel the best about their gaming experience especially as it pertains to doing story and RPing.

 

I don't measure the degree of my satisfaction in a MMO with owning items that are super-rare...they're not real things, eventually this will all be gone, I rate my satisfaction with getting enjoyment out of the actual playing. Everything else is just to enhance that experience and I certainly don't get enhancement from depriving other people certain armor or weapon looks.

 

Note: I've had the bowcasters since the Chevin (? think that was the event they were from) event and have yet to use one once and I have I think 3-4 of them lol. Just cause something is super-rare and limited time doesn't even make it cool to everyone. The only thing I'm wearing from the events I got armor and weapons from is that Sand People set. Personally think the original Containment armor is rather meh looking.

 

Now give me my sand people yell/gaffi stick swinging emote Bioware!

[BrianDavion]

It sucks that all the old gear from the early events is being made available. The cool thing about being a long time player is having gear that no one can get. This is one of the things that lead to the failure of SWG.

 

they're not punishing long term players. they're just not punishing newer players

[KyaniteD]

Exactly.

This thread is silly and the OP should feel silly...

 

I´d call the death knell to crafting an actual punishment.

Players have spent hours and lots of money gathering for and back-engineering gear that now will be handed out for free or will become completely obsolete like droid gear.[/Quote]

 

So true. That's a lot more in line with the term punishment. That's actual effort, game time and credits rendered obsolete. This is just people getting to keep their still perfectly usable and viable stuff while it's made available to new players at high costs.

 

As a longtime player this is a benefit, not a punishment. Been playing since pre-launch, and this change benefits me because I didn't select the ugly *** containment uniforms because I didn't know there was going to be an achievement added in months after the event requiring that I have the outfit. Now I can work to fix that.[/Quote]

 

Yeah, I had been playing since launch, too. I wanted to play stories on pub side first, so I didn't have an imp character when the rakghoul event hit. I got everything on pub side and when I realized that imp side gets different stuff I managed to level one to 20. But it was too late for the entire officer set, because the pieces were rewards for the quests and the quests only became available one after the other, day-by-day, so you had to play for 5 days but the event only ran for a week and one weekend wasn't enough, no matter how much game time you put in. So even though I chose to try and get that stuff, even though I wanted that ugly set, I couldn't get it, because of how the event was set up. The retroactively added achievement was merely insult to injury.

 

However, I managed to get the Crimson Rakling on that level 20 imp, with the help of my level 50 pub guildies, who trailed me as bodyguards on that quest. That was a really fun experience and we turned quite a couple heads on both sides. (And it's an experience and fond memory that's in no way lessened by the Crimson Rakling being available in the new event. )

 

I wonder how people would feel if the Crimson Rakling wasn't available in the current event but still required for the Lord of the Raklings title.

 

No game ever failed because players had more options to work for something they really wanted.

 

That's why I'm thinking it's a good thing. There are not enough of the old grumps around showing off "exclusive" gear that could outweigh the benefit of engaging new players for a prolonged time. (Prices of these items are quite high for an entire set and require a bit of patience and dedication, just as it should be. It's not like the stuff is handed out for free.)

 

I never really cared for the new Rakghoul event and its rewards in the first place, and after getting all the bounty contract titles for my BH I lost interest in that event, too, but now I have reason again to take part in both. Yes, it may be a lazy, low-effort solution to a couple issues, but it's by far not the worst and I think the benefits outweigh the loss of exclusivity by a fair margin.

___

 

And I have to retract my statement regarding promised exclusivity.

An article from 2012, in which Daniel Erickson states:

It's important to BioWare that the Rakghoul plague is a one-off. "Events are, by their very nature, transient things that build a sense of history within the game" Erickson explains. "Later you'll pull out your red rakling pet and say, 'remember when the rakghoul plague hit.'"

 

Yeah, that's over, because:

According to Erickson, they're doing "anything and everything" to bring that concurrent users number up. "Nothing is off the table when it comes to making sure our communities are strong and active on each server."

 

So, times change. And I'm happy about this change. This is my trade-off for enforced level sync.

.

[Kryptonomic]

The cool thing about being a long time player is having gear that no one can get.

 

I'm not a long time MMO player. This is largely my first MMO, although I've dabbled in GW2 and WoW. I guess I'll question the premise of the quoted portion: why is that a cool thing?

 

I'm asking that sincerely and not as an attempt to dismiss whatever you say.

 

I ask this because clearly the gear is not gear that "no one can get." You have it, presumably. And those other long time players do as well, I'm assuming. So, given that, what difference does it make if players who have not played as long as you end up being able to get it? And where do you draw the line? What's "long enough" for a long time player?

Edited October 4, 2015 by JeffNyman

[Zaltais_Xaal]

I've been playing since release and I don't care what gear is released for everyone. Stop thinking of stuff to whine about and enjoy the game.

[Theeko]

I'll never understand the mentality of keeping rare items that are just for looks rarer somehow makes things better for people who were around for them initially. I've been playing since late-beta, have all the event stuff I could want (I've only ever seen 1 person wearing the blood-stained sand people armor I have from one of the early events that doesn't return, I use it on my main BH) and couldn't care less if they re-release this limited time stuff to others. For one, some people weren't even playing then so they literally have had no way to get it, secondly it's all for looks and frankly it should be about giving people as many options as possible to look the way they want so they feel the best about their gaming experience especially as it pertains to doing story and RPing.

 

 

Exactly, if they weren't here at the time they shouldn't be able to obtain things that were taken out of the game, so I disagree with wanting older stuff back tbh. Even though you think its ok for them to bring back older stuff that they have taken out, I doubt alot of others would agree so can't make everyone happy.

 

My point of view of MMO's if you weren't playing at the time you shouldn't deserve what people have put forth effort for in the past that have been supporting the MMO.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Theeko

[KyaniteD]

I'm not a long time MMO player. This is largely my first MMO, although I've dabbled in GW2 and WoW. I guess I'll question the premise of the quoted portion: why is that a cool thing?

 

I'm asking that sincerely and not as an attempt to dismiss whatever you say.

 

I ask this because clearly the gear is not gear that "no one can get." You have it, presumably. And those other long time players do as well, I'm assuming. So, given that, what difference does it make if players who have not played as long as you end up being able to get it? And where do you draw the line? What's "long enough" for a long time player?

 

Heh, the funny thing is that those items aren't even rewards for "long time players". Having those items just means the players were active players at that point in time (4th month after game launch). They could have been god-knows-where, playing goddess-knows-what games in the last 3.5 years, while people who have actually played SWTOR those 3.5 years since then don't have those items, yet are the actual "long time players" the complainers want to see rewarded...

[CabelHarn]

Heh, the funny thing is that those items aren't even rewards for "long time players". Having those items just means the players were active players at that point in time (4th month after game launch). They could have been god-knows-where, playing goddess-knows-what games in the last 3.5 years, while people who have actually played SWTOR those 3.5 years since then don't have those items, yet are the actual "long time players" the complainers want to see rewarded...

 

Exactly, these rewards were just for temp events that happen to be then, not rewards for long-term players. Some people may not have even been aware of the game then for example so they should be punished and not be able to get a gear-set they think looks nice just because they didn't know about the game to get a temp event gear set? Guess agree to disagree.

[Theeko]

Exactly, these rewards were just for temp events that happen to be then, not rewards for long-term players. Some people may not have even been aware of the game then for example so they should be punished and not be able to get a gear-set they think looks nice just because they didn't know about the game to get a temp event gear set? Guess agree to disagree.

 

I missed the event in Gw2 that dropped the 2 rare karka pets which hardly anyone can afford now but I don't care if I don't have them.

[Razdek]

It sucks that all the old gear from the early events is being made available. The cool thing about being a long time player is having gear that no one can get. This is one of the things that lead to the failure of SWG.

 

Lol - that is all.

[psikofunkster]

Punish egoiste people which is different.

[Atreiya]

*rolleyes@thread for being kind of dumb*

 

I'm a longtime player, with the original CE, so I played at launch. I think that allowing people to have a chance to get stuff they weren't able to get because they didn't play the game <x> years ago is the OPPOSITE of punishment and that it's just a nice thing to do.

 

I missed out on a few things due to taking an extended break when I was burned out on the game, but I started playing again and found out about the things that I'd missed - didn't upset me, but it was a tad disappointing. I was pleasantly surprised when they said they'd add certain things to the vendors for people who missed out on events, etc.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Atreiya

[PetFish]

Ok, it's not punishment, so let's just get over the poor-wording of the title and OP.

 

I agree with the spirit and intent of the OP. Rare items should remain rare. Yes, they are "just pixels and make-believe" stuff, but they are meaningful and special and represent a time/place/achievement that has come and gone.

 

They are also start great game-related conversations about where they came from. It's nice to be able to tell new players about old stuff and what was going on. When I see someone driving around in a Hyperpod or Red Sphere I don't get mad, I get motivated, cuz I know what's involved in obtaining those and it gets me excited to keep trying to get them myself. I don't sit there and pout about it and demand I be able to get it by some other means.

 

I'll probably never get any of the PvP rewards cuz I'm not good enough to be successful at ranked and I'd be just as disappointed if they made those rewards available by other means.

 

Rare and special items need to be rare and special and then remain rare and special.

 

I'd love to see more things that are rare and special out there (ie. magenta crystals, taun fawn, etc) that take time and effort and availability to achieve.

[stockmks]

People demanding *MORE FOR THEMSELVES* is harmless and hey, if you don't ask...

Something completely different are posts that demand *LESS FOR OTHERS*.. and perhaps a better approach would be to examine how happy you are in life.

 

I think nice people stick to this guide.

[Khevar]

When I see someone driving around in a Hyperpod or Red Sphere I don't get mad, I get motivated, cuz I know what's involved in obtaining those and it gets me excited to keep trying to get them myself.

I get what you're saying, but wouldn't you make a distinction between:

"rare items that required some in-game skill/time/effort to obtain", and

"rare items that were available just because you were there, and could never be achieved again"?

 

The OP believes he is being punished because "old gear from early events is being made available". As in, the Chevin event.

 

I enjoyed Chevin. Got me some bowcasters and a few other things. Then the event ended, never to return again. If someone saw me driving around in a Chevin speeder that they didn't have it would motivate exactly (jack * diddly) / squat, as there would be no way for them to obtain it.

 

Frankly, I think it's a bit silly that the rewards are being brought back WITHOUT the event -- I enjoyed the event a lot more than the rewards -- and it would be fun to do it again. But the fact that others will be able to buy the gear? Yeah, I don't buy into the "making rewards less rare is bad" in this instance.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Khevar

[Princess_Chibi]

Kids get trophies now for participation because "there are no losers". This is just the next natural degenerative step, now you get a trophy for not even coming to the game.

 

Give it a few years and if you sign on to an NFL team that's won the super bowl before, you'll get retroactive rings...

[Knockerz]

SWG failed when the first force sensitive slot got unlocked. Everything that happened after that was just furthing a disaster to try an balance a game that never should have had Jedi in it in the first place.

 

This is incorrect. The problem with Jedi was their alpha class design. Jedi in swg were design initially to be extremely rare and be as powerful as group of 20 players. As the player Jedi population increased the power of Jedi was decreased. I think at end prior to the NGE, Jedi were equated to about 1 1/2 the power of a player. A non Jedi would never be able to beat a Jedi. I did some pvp Jedi in pvp. I was in a 3 vs 1 bounty hunter fight on my Jedi. I killed one player, then destroyed the remaining player's vehicles and force ran away.

 

SWG could have Jedi, but no mmorpg should have an alpha class unless you limit the population of that class. If I remember right, SWG developers were planning to limit the number of Jedi per server by developing a council system. However, the council system was never implemented.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Knockerz

[Knockerz]

Kids get trophies now for participation because "there are no losers". This is just the next natural degenerative step, now you get a trophy for not even coming to the game.

 

Give it a few years and if you sign on to an NFL team that's won the super bowl before, you'll get retroactive rings...

 

OMG it's Princess_Chibi.

 

I remember pvp with you on the swg forums. You had that same name on the swg forums. No hard feelings from a SWG Jedi. I know you played a Bounty Hunter. The player Jedi bounty hunter system never did work correctly. Feign death was the get out jail ability. I survived when my Jedi was weak many bounty hunter and other Jedi ganks because of the feign death.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Knockerz

[Jeweledleah]

not having new end game group content and rehashing old on instead could be considered punishment to long time players who have already played through it. (and honestly its not punishment as much as calculated neglect in favor of attracting newer players/players that didn't get to play through that content before)

 

bringing back outfits that even long term players who participated in the event didn't complete becasue they didn't realize they needed to? that's actualy a reward for long term players.

 

seriously, back when I was in that event... I umm... kinda sorta bought a bunch of belts and wrists... becasue moddable belts and wrists were still hard to find at a time, especially legacy ones that weren't class bound.

 

and during original raq event, I only had one character high enough level and she was imp side.. so I have imperial outfit, but not its republic counterpart. so yeah, I'm an longtime player who is VERY happy about the change. and heck... I remember making a fair amount of effort to buy me a black/green crystal and i was one of the few people who used it on my server. now... its dime a dozen. but you know what? don't care. thing didn't get any less awesome looking.

[Knockerz]

I get what you're saying, but wouldn't you make a distinction between:

"rare items that required some in-game skill/time/effort to obtain", and

"rare items that were available just because you were there, and could never be achieved again"?

 

The OP believes he is being punished because "old gear from early events is being made available". As in, the Chevin event.

 

I enjoyed Chevin. Got me some bowcasters and a few other things. Then the event ended, never to return again. If someone saw me driving around in a Chevin speeder that they didn't have it would motivate exactly (jack * diddly) / squat, as there would be no way for them to obtain it.

 

Frankly, I think it's a bit silly that the rewards are being brought back WITHOUT the event -- I enjoyed the event a lot more than the rewards -- and it would be fun to do it again. But the fact that others will be able to buy the gear? Yeah, I don't buy into the "making rewards less rare is bad" in this instance.

 

I agree on the event returning. I like it the most out all the events so far, except maybe the pvp shenanigans that happen during the first gree event. I still have some tokens from the original event.

 

I have no problem with the event and their respective items returning. The event was not difficult. It's not like we are talking about wing mount level of difficulty here.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Knockerz

[JattaGin]

(...)

 

bringing back outfits that even long term players who participated in the event didn't complete becasue they didn't realize they needed to? that's actualy a reward for long term players.(...)

 

^^This and also everything else Jeweledleah wrote (but I left out of the quote). Couldn't agree more.

 

That said, once again: Why they decided to never bring these very nice events back into the game is beyond my comprehension. It would add content which would be new for most current player (I assume) and even for us veterans, it would be like new, because it's been more than three years ago and who has more than faint memories of the events? Back then I learned the concept of daily missions.

[Knockerz]

^^This and also everything else Jeweledleah wrote (but I left out of the quote). Couldn't agree more.

 

That said, once again: Why they decided to never bring these very nice events back into the game is beyond my comprehension. It would add content which would be new for most current player (I assume) and even for us veterans, it would be like new, because it's been more than three years ago and who has more than faint memories of the events? Back then I learned the concept of daily missions.

 

Actually i didn't buy any items with my tokens from the event. I was under the impression the event would comeback. The even may have been easy, but it was still time consuming and I chose to level alts instead of spending all my time on the event. Leveling back then was not like today with 12x it was very slow and you had to complete all the side quest. Sometimes that was not enough and you had to run flashpoints, pvp, or wait for rest xp.

 

I should have put in a ticket to try to get something from my tokens all these years. Worst case they say no.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Knockerz

[Sobekeus]

Going to have to disagree. You can't have a Star Wars MMO without Jedi.

 

Having Jedi and letting players be Jedi aren't congruous.

[Transairion]

They are also start great game-related conversations about where they came from. It's nice to be able to tell new players about old stuff and what was going on. When I see someone driving around in a Hyperpod or Red Sphere I don't get mad, I get motivated, cuz I know what's involved in obtaining those and it gets me excited to keep trying to get them myself. I don't sit there and pout about it and demand I be able to get it by some other means.

 

I'll probably never get any of the PvP rewards cuz I'm not good enough to be successful at ranked and I'd be just as disappointed if they made those rewards available by other means.

 

Rare and special items need to be rare and special and then remain rare and special.

 

Except there's nothing stopping anyone going out and getting a Red Sphere, or Helix Hyperpod, or (current) ranked rewards except themselves.

 

It's literally impossible for someone to get the Chevin/original Rakghoul outfits without borrowing a spare TARDIS and going back to when it originally happened in 2012.

 

 

None of the PvP rewards that come and go are going to be re-released, but they're also not a requirement for anything either. Not should they be. Nothing time-limited, once-here-then-gone-forever should be required for anything but cosmetic fun or otherwise.

 

If someone hadn't derped and put those outfits in Sharp Dresser a year after the event/s, I'm pretty sure these items wouldn't have been made available again. Impossible achievements are dumb, we have enough buggy ones as is. The amount of people with these items on hand, ie the only people who they might "slight" with these changes, is also now a tiny tiny amount of the game's population.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Transairion