Why do MMOs punish longtime players

[Ratajack]

Sooooo how exactly is this a punishment?

 

IMO, it is not so much punishing long term players, but rather it is rewarding those players who, for whatever reason, did not obtain the item during the time it was available.

 

A great many of those to whom BW is now catering due to their incessant whining simply CHOSE not to obtain those armor sets when they were available. They made a CHOICE not to obtain them. No one was stopping them from acquiring those sets of armor. They CHOSE not to obtain them, by their own admission.

 

Then they chose to whine, cry foul and complain when they actually had to live with the consequences of the CHOICE THEY ALONE MADE. They simply cannot accept the responsibility for their own actions and choices, instead trying to blame BW for the choices they alone made.

 

On the other side, you have those that were not playing the game when certain limited time items were available.

Many of those seem to think that the mere fact that they log into the game entitles them to have everything that ever was in the game, that is currently in the game or that ever will be in the game.

 

 

Some of those who did obtain those limited time items would prefer that they stay exclusive.

 

I am on the side of keeping those items exclusive. I say this as someone who does not have those exclusive items. One of them I chose not to obtain, as I did not care for the appearance. The other I wasn't able to obtain because I chose not to create any republic characters prior to that.

 

I am simply mature enough to recognize and accept that I have no one to blame except myself for the consequences of those choices I made. The fact that I was not aware of every possible consequence at the time does not entitle me to try to blame anyone else or to the rewards that those who made different choices may receive.

[SithEmpress]

I really never got why people feel others need to be locked out of said items or gear. I suppose it so someone can feel special but personally I couldn't care less who has what. I don't see this as punishing old MMO player but giving people choices and I've been here since day one. Look at it this way you got to enjoy the item longer then said new person. Plus they aren't just handing it out for free, you have to use currency from three events. Two of those events don't occur monthly, so it not like the new player doesn't have to put in some work. In truth more work then we did. Another great thing about this feature is the fact you can now get that cool item for characters, like alts that may not have been created when the event happen. I see it as a win-win for everyone. Edited October 4, 2015 by SithEmpress

[Theeko]

I agree that everyone should have the ability to obtain things equally, but for those that stuck with the game and paid to play as well should be rewarded more for there time tbh. If you weren't here for said item, then you don't deserve said item just as simple as that. Just like how they took out the old korrealis mounts off the vendor from 1.2 and have never returned at all. Edited October 4, 2015 by Theeko

[branmakmuffin]

Because the whiners always win, OP.

 

SWG was the only time I've seen a, "You missed it? Well that's unfortunate for you." rule enforced. It's very unfortunately that they are continuing to push aside what's left of the original or long-time player base so that the new short-term cash cows can feel special.

That statement makes absolutely no sense. None of the exclusive pre-order/subscriber rewards has ever been made available later.

 

Bioware's actions are just another great reason why I backed Star Citizen - no special treatment. You either work towards getting something, or you never get it at all.

If Star Citizen is so great and TOR is so awful, why are you playing TOR?

[MaximusRex]

It sucks that all the old gear from the early events is being made available. The cool thing about being a long time player is having gear that no one can get. This is one of the things that lead to the failure of SWG.

 

As a longtime player this is a benefit, not a punishment. Been playing since pre-launch, and this change benefits me because I didn't select the ugly *** containment uniforms because I didn't know there was going to be an achievement added in months after the event requiring that I have the outfit. Now I can work to fix that.

 

No game ever failed because players had more options to work for something they really wanted.

[Ratajack]

As a longtime player this is a benefit, not a punishment. Been playing since pre-launch, and this change benefits me because I didn't select the ugly *** containment uniforms because I didn't know there was going to be an achievement added in months after the event requiring that I have the outfit. Now I can work to fix that.

 

No game ever failed because players had more options to work for something they really wanted.

 

So you CHOSE not to obtain those items and now want to be rewarded?

[Theeko]

So you CHOSE not to obtain those items and now want to be rewarded?

 

Yeah another give me something that they took out thread, if you weren't there at at the time for promotional items or stuff they said were going away, you shouldn't deserve it.

[Anysao]

The prices on this gear are absolutely redonkulous. Exactly as it should be.

 

I'm perfectly content letting my old gear be accessible again- hello Hyroti scrapper and Republic Containment Officer!

[Master_ivar]

Sooooo how exactly is this a punishment?

 

Exactly.

This thread is silly and the OP should feel silly...

 

I´d call the death knell to crafting an actual punishment.

Players have spent hours and lots of money gathering for and back-engineering gear that now will be handed out for free or will become completely obsolete like droid gear.

 

Killing of companion gear will impact the game economy severely, which is ludicrous for a game dependent on player driven economy like this one.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Master_ivar

[Karkais]

I have Columni and Rakata gear, I have not seen they make those available.

 

Im pretty sure the styles are available, but Ive forgotten the name of the new gear versions and where its from.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Karkais

[branmakmuffin]

Punishment would be "taking this away from you so I can sell it to him." This is "you get to keep yours and I'm going to let him buy one, too."

 

And the difference between (formerly) exclusive in-game gear and pre-order/subscriber awards is a marketing issue (if they made that stuff available, no one would ever be tempted by pre-order/subscriber swag again).

[IanArgent]

If you cater to veterans at the expense of new blood, you don't get new blood, and you die when the veterans leave for other reasons. This is the case for any hobby-oriented market. I've seen this play out in any number of hobbies, boith on and off the computer.

[robertthebard]

Did they ground you? Did they tell you that you can't go to the club? Did they change the password to your WiFi so you can't connect to the internet? How, exactly, are they punishing you?

[Eanelinea]

I'm actually glad they're letting us obtain the old containment outfits and the Chevin event items. Alot of people were annoyed they couldn't get best dressed or whatever that Achievement is called because of the Chevin event and the old original 1.1 Rakghoul event that crash landed on Tattooine. IIRC, they're allowing people to get the armors but not the titles. So I get to be the special snowflake I am with my Chevin event titles I earned. But I didn't have someone high or geared enough to be able to do the original Rakghoul event so I completely missed out on that title, but I don't mind.

 

Now, if Bioware began giving vet/subscriber rewards out to people for no reason, then I might be pissed off. I earned my Founder title and Party Jawa, I was here at launch and stuck with the game.

 

Otherwise? Let the new guys get the armors. Doesn't make a difference to me.

 

Though I DO want the Chevin event back, or something similar if possible.

[Transairion]

Sadly I looked into this thread just to see the OP was deadly serious, so just had to reply lol.

 

 

First off, nothing is being taken away from anyone save self-imposed Special Snowflake disorder, which there's a title for. The vast majority of the items from the Rakghoul event from 2012 and Chevin event HAVE ALREADY BEEN REINTRODUCED TO THE GAME before KOTFE will anyway, so the amount actually being made "non-exclusive" anymore is like... 3 armor sets, and bowcasters (at least one of which has a near-copy on the Cartel Market).

 

Don't believe me?

 

 

Rakghoul

- Black-Green crystals were always available at skyrocketed prices on the GTN, reintroduced with Rakghoul Resurgence

- Infected (old) companion customizations reintroduced with repeatable Rakghoul Resurgence

- Midnight/Pale/Crimson Rakling reintroduced with Rakghoul Resurgence

- Rakghoul Vaccine was always available

 

That was the entirety of Jeevlic's stock in 2012, all made available again.

 

Chevin

- Hyrotti Scrapper was added to the Seeker Droid Special Treasures a loooooooong while back, and the one I'm riding I dug up in like, 2014

- Lobelot can randomly drop on Makeb and higher content

- Hagnoffarl can also randomly drop on Makeb and higher content

 

Less stock here, obviously. From what I can see, all the missing stock is being made available in KOTFE (Bowcasters + Bloodguard set).

 

 

As far as special snowflake-ness goes... there isn't a lot that's exclusive anyway.

 

CE? Bought it off Amazon

 

Pre-order? Ebay (lol)

 

Original Korrellias mounts? Been on the GTN for ages, save the PvP ones which were always bound from the get-go.

 

 

 

The only real reason most of this stuff, primarily the armor is coming back, is because Bioware decided it was a great decision to make them a requirement for Sharp Dresser achievement title. Which was added into the game about, oh, a year after Rakghoul event actually happened? Around 8 months after Chevin.

 

So every player who joined SWTOR after about August 2012, in a game that launched December 2011, now had an impossible achievement from April 2013 onwards. As far as I know, these were the first events and thus sprung on the players as a surprise, and you had to be there for every day of the event to even get the armor set/s in the first place. So all the people who did compete, but one day late? Missed out too.

 

 

Having impossible achievements was dumb, it remains dumb now (I'm looking at you, Party Jawa from F2P launch in November 2012 required for Tatoonie Planetery 100%. Not even a year after launch.), so the easiest way to make it doable was apparently to just make them available again rather than remove the requirement. Which, I'd wager, will be the reason most buy them in the first place: because the achievement still asks for it.

 

 

Also, it was an ingame event, not a subscriber reward or anything like that. Anything that has been a "reward" for subs/players only, including Party Jawa, has never been made available again and will probably never be made available. Ever.

 

 

The amount of people who actually have these things and are not going to be "special" anymore is probably, like, 1% of the games population as well. April-August 2012 was a long, long time ago.

[Eillack]

That statement makes absolutely no sense. None of the exclusive pre-order/subscriber rewards has ever been made available later.

 

 

If Star Citizen is so great and TOR is so awful, why are you playing TOR?

 

$5 and you can buy pre-order items. SC is in Alpha still.

 

It's kind of funny to see how hard you try to troll after all these years.

[tomcn]

OP (mistakenly) assumed that the gear was a time-limited exclusive, without any official statement from Bioware. OP is disappointed now that Bioware has officially stated that the gear is not a time-limited exclusive.

 

I suppose the lesson to learn is: Don't assume that a reward is a time-limited exclusive unless the MMO publisher explicitly says that.

[cyrusramsey]

That someone being able to obtain something that someone else already has can ever be explained as 'punishment' makes me feel really sad.

 

 

I've never been much of an mmo player, preferred singleplayer games. Didn't like having other people running around, breaking my immersion, didn't like having to pay monthly just to keep servers up that allowed other people running around, breaking my immersion.

 

Some of my games I used to play had immensely tight communities though, my favorite were the ones where you could get into a forum and say that... you wish you could do/have something awesome, and before you knew it, people agreed that this would be awesome and either set out to get it into the game, or told you how to start going about it yourself.

 

Obviously I changed my mind a little, being able to post here. I got myself a sub not long after making use of the fact that the game went F2P. Still, I can't get over the fact that the singleplayer communities I was a part of over the years felt a lot more social to me than this one. Wanting to have things gets people to call you entitled instead of encouragement.

 

I honestly don't understand why anyone would begrudge anyone else having something awesome or special. All that does to me is reinforce the belief that there's this deep resentment that seems to permeate everything here.

 

[branmakmuffin]

$5 and you can buy pre-order items.

Negatory. You can get some of the items that came with the Collectors Edition (not pre-order) as part of the Digital Deluxe Edition (but not the most sought after, i.e., access to the CE vendor).

 

SC is in Alpha still.

Oh, yeah, that's right. You can't even actually play Star Citizen. How silly of me.

[ScarletBlaze]

Can you not design an outfit and still have a unique one?

 

I know I take tops and skirts and then take other pieces like the bracers, the gloves and the boots and make my own unique outfit as some of the boots are really too large and doesn't look right.

 

You can still make an unique set if you just take bits and pieces and design your own style.

[Aries_cz]

When Life Day event rolls around again, be sure to get the Special Snowflake title...

[SithKoriandr]

OP (mistakenly) assumed that the gear was a time-limited exclusive, without any official statement from Bioware. OP is disappointed now that Bioware has officially stated that the gear is not a time-limited exclusive.

 

I suppose the lesson to learn is: Don't assume that a reward is a time-limited exclusive unless the MMO publisher explicitly says that.

 

Even then, don't assume. Sometimes even then, they change their mind. "Well, you've had it long enough and this is a good way to make more money again!"

[Aries_cz]

Bioware's actions are just another great reason why I backed Star Citizen - no special treatment. You either work towards getting something, or you never get it at all.

 

SC is a community funded pipe dream. If it actually ever launches and becomes successful, you will see people demanding (and probably getting) stuff that used to be exclusive to certain people.

 

Also, you still need to "work" towards getting stuff they are bringing back, those prices are pretty hefty.

[Transairion]

Even then, don't assume. Sometimes even then, they change their mind. "Well, you've had it long enough and this is a good way to make more money again!"

 

Except in the case of one of the bowcasters (which has been sold for a while), they're not being sold for CC though... just putting a vendor that takes multiple vendor currencies per item (IE 10 Rakghoul DNA Canister, 10 Gray Helix, 10 Bounty Contracts for 1 piece).

 

The PTS prices are pretty insanely high, to the point of discouragement: I've had nothing to buy with event currency for a long while, so have just sat on them... I don't think I can afford a single armor set with what I have. They're asking for a LOT of currency right now.

 

Considering how randomly the events come around, it's very discouraging.

[Celise]

It sucks that all the old gear from the early events is being made available. The cool thing about being a long time player is having gear that no one can get. This is one of the things that lead to the failure of SWG.

 

ive been around since beta and what gives you the right to "speak" for me? you do not, nor should you be so presumptous to state such a thing for anyone but yourself.

 

now thats dealt with, i couldnt care one bit that some hard to get armour is being returned to the players, if anything, at least they will see a use once again.