Jhonen Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I've had this handle for years, but I'm sure you will just assume otherwise. Joined Dec 2011. Assuming otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jettemakaron Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 WoW started losing subscriptions after BC. When did the game become less difficult? After BC. A pattern emerges! Have u actually tried heroic raids, u cant say thats easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaeOnasi Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Keep the general stuff relatively easy, and the flashpoints and other specialty areas relatively hard, and you'll appeal to both casual and hardcore groups. This is WIN for all types of players and money in BW's and EA's pockets. All are then happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDozen Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 LOL not /thread. And his point still stands though even with your retort. Where did those people go? To games that cater to hardcores? Name those games please. Are they successful now? The fact is you have no idea what the decline in subs for WoW is from. You're just drawing conclusions that support your theory without any proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrolepsy Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 If I sort them by most successful... WoW EQ Eve Then sort again by those that catered most to their casual player base... WoW EQ Eve A pattern emerges! Actually as soon as they started catering fully to casuals in wrath their subs started dropping. Look it up on MMOData, it's no secret casuals kill MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahzirra Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Yea, because none of these companies have done market research and found that to be successful you cater to your biggest market/money maker. By your reasoning companies like Bioware and EA want to lose profits, sitting from your foldable chair eating hot pockets you are the captain of industry....Why are these companies so dumb not pandering to the hardcore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWGVet Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 WoW Eve EQ Discuss. Am I the only one that remembers Blizzard trying to make their game more difficult in Cataclysm as a reaction to a dwindling number of subscribers? Don't forget Asherons Call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 WoW Eve EQ Discuss. Am I the only one that remembers Blizzard trying to make their game more difficult in Cataclysm as a reaction to a dwindling number of subscribers? World of Warcraft was Everquest for Dummies and made its entire run of success by catering to both casual players and the gold farming system that supported casual gamers. Finishing AQ40 back in the day was a zillion times easier than getting through Vex Thal. Your thoughts on the matter? I'd love to hear your comparison between WoW and Vanguard, the game that tried to do it right by not catering to the casual playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 WoW and Eve both saw massive increases in accounts when they started catering to casual players. WoW made leveling faster (their first really important change to attract casual players) Eve made the 24hr skill training que From these points on the companies continually introduced things for players of both subsets to extreme success. Oh and several games in recent history started catering to casual players too and saw a massive increase in numbers. And hers the main reason: The casual gamer is the majority customer. So what if hardcore players see all the best content... you pay the same $15 i pay if i never see end game content. Back during WoW and EvE's haydays, this was not true... now it is. So, just be nice and crap and both the hardcore and casual players can get what the want. This is not exactly correct. WoW peaked at the end of BC when they had spead up leveling slightly in the middle part of the game and added new questing in theramore. It was stagnant the entirety of WOTLK(when leveling was spead up even more with heirlooms). And subscriptions have plumetted since the changes to leveling speed in Cataclysm where you can hit 85 faster than you could hit level 40 in classic WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jettemakaron Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Keep in mind that what I am about so say is only my opinion. Purely subjective and not entirely factual. You can't argue Cata is making it harder in the slightest after patch 4.1. The difficulty was amped up slightly, then dropped to support a more casual learning curve. WoW will never see another Ulduar again, which was arguably their best raid (Blizz has stated the cost for making such a zone as their reason), and with the raid finder out and about, they've brought raids down to a level where anyone can run them. I don't think it's any more difficult than WotLK in the slightest. If anything, it's gotten worse. BUT and this is a big but, the things u do in raid finder isent all u can do, there is harder modes for people that want it. That way EVERYONE can enjoy the full game, and why should not everyone do that when all pay the same to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 ummm wow most definitely catered to casual players back in the, EQ players used to ALWAYS call WoW players carebears and such. There has always been a jealousy against WoW players ever since the game was released. It does not make it true since in vanilla WoW only the raiders and no lifers could get their hands on level 60 epics. Game got more casual when BC was released with 10 man starting raids and a little bit easier end game raids. But when Lich King got released the raiding was a joke and even top guilds like Nihilum started cheating because casuals and less hardcore guilds almost beat them. So it does not matter what people are saying about vanilla WoW but at that time casuals was playing the game for fun running around in greens and blue colored gear. Epics was something they dreamed of having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 WOW was called MMORPG on training wheels by the established MMO Community so claiming it didnt cater to casuals is beyond messed up! All it did was pander to gimme gimme gimme mind sets of the WORST casyual players (there is good ones out there that dont demand everything now). Eve is not successfull, its operational at most. EQ you have a point and I fully agree MMORPGs need to stop handing everything away with no effort or thought. But your dead wrong on WOW and EVE. I'm really not and I'm willing bet that you haven't participated in very many of the difficult raids in WoW. I'm not talking about WotLK and beyond. I'm talking about Sunwell and most of the content before that. Eve is one of three MMORPGs to gain subscribers after the initial one month drop. That's as successful as you can be in this genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emartell Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I'd love to hear your comparison between WoW and Vanguard, the game that tried to do it right by not catering to the casual playerbase. That was their initial intent. But it never made it that way Their idea of what "hardcore" is was really warped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jettemakaron Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 There has always been a jealousy against WoW players ever since the game was released. It does not make it true since in vanilla WoW only the raiders and no lifers could get their hands on level 60 epics. Game got more casual when BC was released with 10 man starting raids and a little bit easier end game raids. But when Lich King got released the raiding was a joke and even top guilds like Nihilum started cheating because casuals and less hardcore guilds almost beat them. So it does not matter what people are saying about vanilla WoW but at that time casuals was playing the game for fun running around in greens and blue colored gear. Epics was something they dreamed of having. Yea because pugging MC was sooo hard, i was forced to play healer there (ret paladin) and had none healíng gear, neither did the rest of the 5-6 ret that was healing but we cleared the place anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastorfrog Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 This is not exactly correct. WoW peaked at the end of BC when they had spead up leveling slightly in the middle part of the game and added new questing in theramore. It was stagnant the entirety of WOTLK(when leveling was spead up even more with heirlooms). And subscriptions have plumetted since the changes to leveling speed in Cataclysm where you can hit 85 faster than you could hit level 40 in classic WoW. Cite your sources, please. This contradicts Blizzard's own numbers, and any other source I've seen bases all their information on a large number of assumptions which are completely unable to be verified by anyone other than Blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahzirra Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Yea, because none of these companies have done market research and found that to be successful you cater to your biggest market/money maker. By your reasoning companies like Bioware and EA want to lose profits, sitting from your foldable chair eating hot pockets you are the captain of industry....Why are these companies so dumb not pandering to the hardcore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Yea because pugging MC was sooo hard, i was forced to play healer there (ret paladin) and had none healíng gear, neither did the rest of the 5-6 ret that was healing but we cleared the place anyway. Its normal to carry noobs in the starting raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenthorn Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 people quit because it was too hard people quit because it was too easy but never make it just a hard core grind fest, people quit faster the casual player is your money base, the hard core players cry more than the masses about anything they perceive allows others to see end game or any real content for that matter, they want to preserve their special snowflake syndrome, so much the top guilds in another game cheated to get geared and try to get the first to do something award, never let achievements into this game plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDrive Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 As time went on EQ catered more and more to the hardcore players, listening to the uber guilds and ignoring the casual players who made up most of the player base. Then WoW came along with a more casual-friendly game and EQ lost a huge number of players. The fact is, most players don't want a game that feels like a job. The last thing that BW should do is cater to a vocal minority and ignore the vast majority of players who are having fun and never even log on to the forums. Squeaky wheels want what they want, which isn't always what the game needs. Most MMO players are casual, and the demands of hardcore players should be taken with a huge pile of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darka Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Casuals are the scourge of the gaming world, made out to be Gaming Devil Nazis out there to ruin it for everyone! Blame Casuals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Cite your sources, please. This contradicts Blizzard's own numbers, and any other source I've seen bases all their information on a large number of assumptions which are completely unable to be verified by anyone other than Blizzard. http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png Same at the end of bc/beginning of wrath as end of wrath. Vanilla, and BC grew massive subscription numbers. Wrath did nothing for growth, and cataclysm lost subs. Every source I've read over the years backs this chart up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meluna Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Hello, folks! We ask that discussion on the General Discussion forum be centered around Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. Due to this being a discussion of other games and their subscriber numbers, we will be closing the thread for being off topic. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts