The (Maybe) biggest problem in PvP right now.

[MrGoldsilver]

After Extensive Research* I have determined what the (maybe) biggest problem in PvP is right now. First I will list what it is NOT.

 

Overpowered Classes. It is a problem but it's not nearly as bad.

 

Engineering Sniper STILL not getting a long awaited buff (Yes I'm still sore over this), but no it's not that.

 

Idiots in the pvp match. A problem, but usually there's as many idiots on the enemy teams as there are on your team. (Random Chance Odds)

 

 

No the biggest problem I see in regs in the lack of Role Balance.

 

Against A team with 1-2 competent healers, a team with no healers usually gets absolutely destroyed, while a team with one very good healer has at least a change to take down an average team with 2-3 healers.

 

But an even bigger problem within this problem is how to solve it without making Q times worse.

 

It's possible a system could be set up so that equal numbers of dps/healers/tanks are on each team, but that could make Q's last forever.

 

Personally, what I want to see is a system that ALWAYS (ok one exception) puts at least one healer, and lets no more than 4 healers/tank, no more than 3 total healers, and no more than 2 total tanks. (So you can have 1 or 2 healers with 1 or 2 tanks, but with 2 tanks you only have 2 healers max, or with 3 healers, only one tank max) on a team, so at least that team won't get steamrolled. (The exception would be having no healers in the match at all)

 

Thoughts on this?

 

*I played a match were I died more than once

[Lhancelot]

After Extensive Research* I have determined what the (maybe) biggest problem in PvP is right now. First I will list what it is NOT.

 

Overpowered Classes. It is a problem but it's not nearly as bad.

 

Engineering Sniper STILL not getting a long awaited buff (Yes I'm still sore over this), but no it's not that.

 

Idiots in the pvp match. A problem, but usually there's as many idiots on the enemy teams as there are on your team. (Random Chance Odds)

 

 

No the biggest problem I see in regs in the lack of Role Balance.

 

Against A team with 1-2 competent healers, a team with no healers usually gets absolutely destroyed, while a team with one very good healer has at least a change to take down an average team with 2-3 healers.

 

But an even bigger problem within this problem is how to solve it without making Q times worse.

 

It's possible a system could be set up so that equal numbers of dps/healers/tanks are on each team, but that could make Q's last forever.

 

Personally, what I want to see is a system that ALWAYS (ok one exception) puts at least one healer, and lets no more than 4 healers/tank, no more than 3 total healers, and no more than 2 total tanks. (So you can have 1 or 2 healers with 1 or 2 tanks, but with 2 tanks you only have 2 healers max, or with 3 healers, only one tank max) on a team, so at least that team won't get steamrolled. (The exception would be having no healers in the match at all)

 

Thoughts on this?

 

*I played a match were I died more than once

 

this topic has my head swimming. I can't even start to focus on one aspect of the "problem" in PVP on this game right now. I must be losing my mind at this moment. It's too much my head hurts now.

[Raansu]

Its regs, who cares?

[jedcjedcjedc]

they could have 3-5 healers and it doesnt matter if their DPS suck.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

problem of pvp atm are 3

 

1) op classes, yes, u are forced to kill and be killed by the same 3 classes with the same 3 specs over and overand over, even uf u enjoy pvp'ing soon or later you will getting tired

 

 

2) Op healing, especially sorcs, i mean i did a wz a few hours ago, 4 sages heal, its insane what they can do, 12 minutes of nnovare coast, the 12 most boring minutes since d1 of the game, we had none, we got farmed for 12 minutes, at the end, nobody of their died, not a single person died, after that i just alt f4, and i think its a very very big problems. Now ofc was just an example 4 heals can just do what they ewant no matter the class, but still sorcs out heal others classes, they need a nerf PERIOD

 

3) lack of content, i mean yes its fun, and yes i still enjoy pvp, but lets be honest, i think 99% of ppl who pvp are getting, or are just tired of the same 4 maps for 4 years. I mean i know pvp is not the focus of the game but jeez, how hard can be even make a reskin of voidtar, or alderaan ? 2-3 hours ? Come on.

[Dysfunxtional]

Regssssssss

[MrGoldsilver]

Its regs, who cares?

 

I avoid ranked like the plague (Since my main is an operative healer), so I'm just suggesting changes to the PvP I play

[Raansu]

I avoid ranked like the plague (Since my main is an operative healer), so I'm just suggesting changes to the PvP I play

 

Its still regs. Win or lose you still get your comms. Making people wait an hour for two tanks and healers to pop up is a terrible idea as regs are completely meaningless.

[denpic]

All of these problems can be overcome by simply creating a group of competent players

[MrGoldsilver]

All of these problems can be overcome by simply creating a group of competent players

 

Oh, I agree. I usually do group up with other players, but when I don't group up, I tend to find this frustrating.

[foxmob]

Its regs, who cares?

 

that is usually a valid answer, but the REASON it's a valid answer is because there's no role balancing in regs (not because of player skill). his suggestion is a suggestion to role balance regs. so it's perfectly relevant. but I disagree with it as a solution. I don't think it goes far enough to justify balancing around it, and I'm certain BW won't do anything remotely like this to their nonexistent reg matchmaking b/c it would affect queue times.

[Raansu]

that is usually a valid answer, but the REASON it's a valid answer is because there's no role balancing in regs (not because of player skill). his suggestion is a suggestion to role balance regs. so it's perfectly relevant. but I disagree with it as a solution. I don't think it goes far enough to justify balancing around it, and I'm certain BW won't do anything remotely like this to their nonexistent reg matchmaking b/c it would affect queue times.

 

Exactly, I don't feel like waiting an hour for a completely meaningless reg match.

[tomius]

Its regs, who cares?

 

This argument always makes me chuckle.

 

What's make ranked matter so much? The fact you get a shiny little number that has very little to do with skill, but rather what FOTY class you play and how lucky you are with your groups?

 

Solo ranked (and group ranked to some extent) is a complete joke and is not THE pvp to do. It's a pointless TDM that has the worst imbalance.

 

"Regs" or warzones is the most played pvp game mode, and so should be balanced properly. Balancing around arenas is what has contributed to the huge balancing issues.

 

Solo ranked should be removed from game personally. Its just a toxic pool of elitism and egomaniacs who think managing to get to T1 and putting it in their sig gives them some right to talk to people how they want and do what they want.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

This argument always makes me chuckle.

 

What's make ranked matter so much? The fact you get a shiny little number that has very little to do with skill, but rather what FOTY class you play and how lucky you are with your groups?

 

Solo ranked (and group ranked to some extent) is a complete joke and is not THE pvp to do. It's a pointless TDM that has the worst imbalance.

 

"Regs" or warzones is the most played pvp game mode, and so should be balanced properly. Balancing around arenas is what has contributed to the huge balancing issues.

 

Solo ranked should be removed from game personally. Its just a toxic pool of elitism and egomaniacs who think managing to get to T1 and putting it in their sig gives them some right to talk to people how they want and do what they want.

 

why removing it ? Some ppl likes it

[CrazyOldMystic]

I do not see regs as meaningless, as I enjoy them more, because they have 8 vrs 8. They also have maps tied directly into the star wars universe and tied directly into the story of swtor.

 

Op research? Really? You have got allot to learn about vision. If you do something over here, then you have to look at the effect over here. In this case with the lack of pvp population already, if they set up a perfect team balance system like pve, the q times would sky rocket.

[aristrokratie]

Role balance works as intended. The game is designed around tank healer and DPS. So all roles together will always be better than only one.

 

They should do the following to sort it out:

-cross server PvP

-crossfaction PvP (only an idea, tell me whether you like or hate it)

-role restrictions: ( Max of two healers per team, two tanks and as pubs can play with imps there will never be such thing as 2 v 0 healers)

 

If you hate cross faction qtimes will be slightly longer but crossserver would allow for more pops

 

People can choose if they only want to be teamed up with people of their their own language or others as well (e.g. I'd choose German and English) but I think everyone is smart enough to understand "2 inc e"

 

 

 

You should not balance the holy trinity around regs because then healers and tanks would be **** and melee fotcentury. Atm damage is overtuned in PvP and sorcheals are twice as op as scoundrels were in 2.xx

[AlrikFassbauer]

but I think everyone is smart enough to understand "2 inc e"

 

Seriously, I once ran across someone who apparingly didn't know compass direction.

I could tell because I answered his question where locations on the fleet were in compass directions, and he kept asking the same question over and over again.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

Role balance works as intended. The game is designed around tank healer and DPS. So all roles together will always be better than only one.

 

They should do the following to sort it out:

-cross server PvP

-crossfaction PvP (only an idea, tell me whether you like or hate it)

-role restrictions: ( Max of two healers per team, two tanks and as pubs can play with imps there will never be such thing as 2 v 0 healers)

 

If you hate cross faction qtimes will be slightly longer but crossserver would allow for more pops

 

People can choose if they only want to be teamed up with people of their their own language or others as well (e.g. I'd choose German and English) but I think everyone is smart enough to understand "2 inc e"

 

 

 

You should not balance the holy trinity around regs because then healers and tanks would be **** and melee fotcentury. Atm damage is overtuned in PvP and sorcheals are twice as op as scoundrels were in 2.xx

 

 

 

The game is called sorc wars The old rerollers for a reason <3

 

http://prntscr.com/8nmbcy

Edited October 4, 2015 by xX-Archangel-Xx

[foxmob]

This argument always makes me chuckle.

 

What's make ranked matter so much?

 

I thought I answered this pretty clearly above. some ppl argue that you have to balance around ranked because the best players are there, so that's the only place you see the true capabilities of each class/spec. they are a significant minority.

 

the real reason you cannot balance around regs is because there is no role balancing in regs. in ranked (whether it's 8v8 or 4v4), you need to use a trinity composition (heal, tank, dps) except for the occasional troll. the game is designed to balance around trinity (pve and pvp). that is why you cannot balance around regs -- reg matches are very rarely role balanced, and solo ranked also doesn't require trinity compositions. thus, both regs and solo ranked are terrible formats around which to balance. they need better matchmaking first -- or BW has to completely scrap the trinity system in pvp.

 

the proposed solution at the start of this thread is an attempt to role balance regs, but it doesn't require trinity comps. it simply tries to balance the healers. trinity is heals, dps and tanks. therefore, the proposed solution still doesn't reflect the core principles of pvp and pve balancing that BW wants to push.

 

furthermore, any kind of role balancing mechanism that's added to regs is going to increase the wait time for a pop, and I'm absolutely positive that BW will not consider implementing it for that reason alone (agree with it or not). this is also the explanation for why they aren't doing anything about backfill, desertion, and premades. whether you agree with their logic or not, it's already been stated clearly over the past two years, and BW has proven to be, if nothing else, very obstinate once they decide on a direction for something.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

I thought I answered this pretty clearly above. some ppl argue that you have to balance around ranked because the best players are there, so that's the only place you see the true capabilities of each class/spec. they are a significant minority.

 

the real reason you cannot balance around regs is because there is no role balancing in regs. in ranked (whether it's 8v8 or 4v4), you need to use a trinity composition (heal, tank, dps) except for the occasional troll. the game is designed to balance around trinity (pve and pvp). that is why you cannot balance around regs -- reg matches are very rarely role balanced, and solo ranked also doesn't require trinity compositions. thus, both regs and solo ranked are terrible formats around which to balance. they need better matchmaking first -- or BW has to completely scrap the trinity system in pvp.

 

the proposed solution at the start of this thread is an attempt to role balance regs, but it doesn't require trinity comps. it simply tries to balance the healers. trinity is heals, dps and tanks. therefore, the proposed solution still doesn't reflect the core principles of pvp and pve balancing that BW wants to push.

 

furthermore, any kind of role balancing mechanism that's added to regs is going to increase the wait time for a pop, and I'm absolutely positive that BW will not consider implementing it for that reason alone (agree with it or not). this is also the explanation for why they aren't doing anything about backfill, desertion, and premades. whether you agree with their logic or not, it's already been stated clearly over the past two years, and BW has proven to be, if nothing else, very obstinate once they decide on a direction for something.

BAlanced arounf trinity, yes.

 

peoblem is trinity dps/heal/tank, means atm

 

Sorcs dot, ap pt - sorx heal - pt tank, BW needs to start fixing these classes, there no reason to tank something else except pt in ranked, same with healers, only role is ok atm, is dps, which a lot of classes can do decent if not well.

Edited October 4, 2015 by xX-Archangel-Xx

[Savej]

... they need better matchmaking first -- or BW has to completely scrap the trinity system in pvp. ...

 

Bingo. If there's one thing Moba's demonstrate to me: the Holy Trinity is not a required component of a fun, complex and popular pvp game. This game literally breaks right now if there are more than a couple healers on either side in regs.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Savej

[Glower]

Its still regs. Win or lose you still get your comms. Making people wait an hour for two tanks and healers to pop up is a terrible idea as regs are completely meaningless.

 

How many comms do you need? 20-30k?

 

I need some fun not comms and games against premades with heals or just against pugs with 2-3 (3! oh...) healers is not fun most of the time while you have 0 heals and maybe 2 tanks...

Edited October 4, 2015 by Glower

[Raansu]

This argument always makes me chuckle.

 

What's make ranked matter so much? The fact you get a shiny little number that has very little to do with skill, but rather what FOTY class you play and how lucky you are with your groups?

 

Solo ranked (and group ranked to some extent) is a complete joke and is not THE pvp to do. It's a pointless TDM that has the worst imbalance.

 

"Regs" or warzones is the most played pvp game mode, and so should be balanced properly. Balancing around arenas is what has contributed to the huge balancing issues.

 

Solo ranked should be removed from game personally. Its just a toxic pool of elitism and egomaniacs who think managing to get to T1 and putting it in their sig gives them some right to talk to people how they want and do what they want.

 

I don't disagree about solo ranked but at the end of the day regs are still meaningless. You do not gain or lose anything from regs. Winning or losing have no significant value, its just another match to play.

[lavatsunami]

I don't disagree about solo ranked but at the end of the day regs are still meaningless. You do not gain or lose anything from regs. Winning or losing have no significant value, its just another match to play.

 

It's not meaningless if that's what you do for fun. Swtor should have stayed like rift and left the concept of arena out of it. Thinking that somehow ranked is a higher form of pvp and has more meaning is hilarious.

[Raansu]

It's not meaningless if that's what you do for fun. Swtor should have stayed like rift and left the concept of arena out of it. Thinking that somehow ranked is a higher form of pvp and has more meaning is hilarious.

 

Do you gain anything from regs? Do you get rating? Do you get the ranked tokens for the rewards? Do you lose anything when you lose? Nope, win or lose you get your comms, you get your credits, you get your xp. There's no rating loss, there's no risk, its just another match to play. Taking that format seriously is laughable.