Why Level Sync needs to be Mandatory!

[StarMagus]

Make Level Sync optional! We've earned the right to go back and working out anger issues with NPC's.

 

If you need to be 20+ levels higher than the mobs in order to work out your issues on them, you haven't earned anything.

[Holocron]

The whole level sync issue was effectively silenced by Bioware with the intentional manipulation of the companion buffs/nerfs. Bioware knows that they only need to stay silent and wave a new shiny ball to keep people from focusing on their decisions that would otherwise piss people off.

[LordArtemis]

Though it might be appropriate genre and story wise, I am not sure that many traditional MMO players would agree that a level sync system is more desirable to a standard leveling mechanic.

 

I would also point out that this game has had a standard mechanic for many years.

 

Both points stand as contentions against the wisdom of FORCED level sync, which seems to be to be a pretty silly thing to put in place.

 

In the end the players will decide, not Bioware, whether or not this was the right decision.

[DonRobsy]

Stupid Noob, why you think it's great to be Level Synced: because you play on PvE server you tried PvP but couldn't handle being killed.

The Fact is if you get Level Synced you can get killed by a player that is +30 levels below you if you play on PvP server. I could make a 30 assasin or shadow and just wait for level 65's doing heroics and then kill them when they got low hp.

The whole fun about being max level has gone now, no more farming, no more ganking, only noob friendly Gameplay.

You are obviously PvE player, Those hardcore players on PvP servers got nerfed big time, so many different ways to kill a level 65 now, that should not be possible at all, the feel of being rewarded with invincibility towards lower levels players just got removed with Level Sync.

It's the worst idea ever to level Sync. Bioware should instead have used the time to make cross server group finder for fp, wz and ops.

I dont see the point in being level synced to the planet is more fun, 1st Planetary PvP broken only fun if you are the low level that kills the maxed level. 2nd you don't get ops gear 3rd you run out of things to buy with commendations now companions don't have gear anymore, within a month or two you got all you can buy for them. 4th you dont need xp as level 65.

 

This is the end of farming, it is a noob friendly game now, only noobs and bad players get something out of Level Sync. It's the finishing blow for PvP why dont just make rated warzones for all levels now. it doesn't mater what level you are' you got synced so you can be killed by lower levels, to prevent guys on PvE server to troll by killing all mobs, they should just make faster spawn rate on herioc mobs, why ruin the game for PvP players and farmers, the people that use over 20 hours a week playing this game just got raped even more with Level Sync.

Past year i monthly paid 85$ for 14500 cc and i ofc sub. Now i think off stopping swtor because they made the game to simple and to noob friendly,

No new fp or ops, only stupid Level Sync for noob players, no more spending time to gear you character with the right stats it just got 1 stat mastery all the fun with nerding you character so it put out the highest dps has gone now. more or less all will be doing the same amount of dps now.

 

Looking at your example of a Character getting killed by someone 30 levels below him/her, that supports the level sync in terms of......you guest it! Lore

Do you not think that if a powerful Sith Lord had a tough battle and was reduced to low HP and Force i.e. no force power left (no force attacks), no stamina and was exhausted i.e. couldn't swing his light saber, kick, punch, jump or get about much, do you think he couldn't get killed by a vastly weaker Sith Apprentice??? When he was THAT vulnerable? I feel that is more realistic than being immortal to be honest

 

P.S. My Juggernaught is 65 and my Assasin is close to 60 so it isn't because I want to beat stronger characters. I just don't like 1 hit kills etc and immortality. I want challenge. If you are a genuinely skilled player like me, you won't be getting beat by lower buffed players and enemies. Just saying

Edited November 27, 2015 by DonRobsy

[Pagy]

if a lvl 65 is getting killed by lowbies on a pvp server, i would ask them 'where is your pvp gear"?

 

its a good thing no one plays on pvp servers so this is hardly worth considering

[Yorioko]

I have considered this Level sync carefully and in all honesty, it is NOT different then the "old" tacticals.

 

A lvl 10 character could run tactical FPs being Bolstered to lvl 50...HOWEVER, the lvl 50 is for damage given and take ONLY, it does NOT allow the character the use of abilites NOT YET unlocked.

So despite the Bolser a lvl 10 running a Tactical will be weaker all over then a lvl 30 running the same tactical.

 

Now if you reverse this: I run With my lvl 65 sentinel a lvl 15 heroic.........I deal damage as a lvl 15 (+ GEAR BONUSES) take damage as the same.......BUT I have Access to ALL the abilites and skills unlocked through leveling, meaning I OVERALL is far superior to any other lvl 15, not synced Down

 

Easy!

[PulseRazor]

It is mandatory, and that isn't going to change.

 

/discussion

[MooseMcKenna]

Here's irrefutable reasons why level sync should be mandatory for Bioware.

 

The BENEFITS of Level Sync?

 

Bioware can do a lot more with Level Sync.

 

Here's why:

 

Imagine in 5.0. Whatever story content comes in 4.0 has passed and besides adding a new planet, Bioware goes,

 

"What if we could have a new questline on older planets that lays the seeds for the main expansion???"

 

In the current system on Live, this would be impossible. You'd run into logistical issues because you'd have random level 65 whatever NPCs attacking random lowbies who don't know what they are doing and stumble upon something they should not stumble upon. We run into a similar problem in 2.0, where the Dreadseed Quests had level 55 enemies that people accidentally stumbled on. We had a similar problem in the Bounty Broker's Event where running by a level 60 fighting a bounty and accidentally whacking it would get you killed.

 

Level Sync eliminates a lot of barriers. Any player can help any other player as long as they both are synced or naturally on level for the planet. You could team up with your Level 15 friend and do his Coruscant Bounty. Say there's a new alien artifact on Alderaan and you need to get it? Before, they'd have to make a new area and make an unintuitive partition. Now, they can just build the area, make it generally fit in with the planet (Or just make it where you can hide certain things while not on pace for the quest), and WHABAM. No random lowbies getting killed.

 

QUOTE]

 

Pretty much everything you mentioned on your entire post are good. This stands out the most to me. I am one that is against having level sync and miss being able to gear my companion like I do myself. But I am coming around and your post here is the best argument for level sync. A++ post

[Ferretfur]

It is mandatory, and that isn't going to change.

 

/discussion

 

You stole my thunder...I was about to say I thought it already was Mandatory...end of.

[IslanderRebel]

This is why they wanted level sync.

They basically wanted everybody and their family to grind up to previous cap level, maybe get into 198/192 gear (ziost 190 gear was LOL ed) just so they could spring level sync on us.

they couldn't stand seeing people solo most if not all the world bosses, run 50 to 55 fps/ops in solo or 4 man groups.

They couldn't stand 60s freight training their friends from 47 to 55 thru Makeb and then Rishi/Yavin 4 to 60.

Better yet, running amok doing all the planetary heroics daily just to stack up comms for the real fun stuff (KOTFE).

those are just some of the reasons why level sync is mandatory now.

Can't make people have too much fun now, can they?

[Lord_Sleepy]

What is the point of having leveling such a large part of the game if you have level sync making the levels pointless?

 

Just curious really, don't care much either way but seems strange to me to make you level then take those levels away depending on where you are standing.

[Yorioko]

Level sync is NOT adding Levels or removing Levels.

it about SYNCRONZING Your existing Level.

 

If you run a lvl 15 heroic at Level 20, being Level synced to 15, you ARE NOT a Level 15 character, you ARE a Level 20 character, that is syncronized to deal less damage, and take damage as a lvl 15 charcater, BUT you still ave the gear and the unloced and usable skills/abilites of a lvl 20 character.

 

Your armors offer "greater" bonuses, weapons deal "more" damage then a non synced character of same leve.

 

This is the same in every sense of the game.

 

you have character A and B, both identical Level, bit having the exact same stats, and having gotten the exct same datacons etc.......

A and B are "indentical" both are Level 65, A is geared in 190 rated gear and B is geared in 224 gear. This is the exact same, the "edge" is given by gear.

 

So Bolster Works the same way, a lvl 10 entering a tactical FP is bolstered to lvl 65, he is NOT lvl 65, he can ONLY use the skills/abilities unloced upto his Level, but the Power output IS as a Level 65. Also here gear will mke a differance wheather he ( the lvl 10) is really at par With the other Level 10 and above, in their gear.

[WulframH]

What is the point of having leveling such a large part of the game if you have level sync making the levels pointless?

 

Just curious really, don't care much either way but seems strange to me to make you level then take those levels away depending on where you are standing.

 

Level sync doesn't make the levels pointless, you still have a whole bunch of extra powers.

 

I think the best purpose of levelling is to give you the opportunity to learn your class gradually, rather than dumping you in with a ton of different powers. Even when I'm just returning to a class I haven't played a while, all those buttons can be intimidating.

 

It also allows them to include a gear grind and to gate content. And people like to see their numbers going up, apparently.

[Princess_Chibi]

Looking at your example of a Character getting killed by someone 30 levels below him/her, that supports the level sync in terms of......you guest it! Lore

Do you not think that if a powerful Sith Lord had a tough battle and was reduced to low HP and Force i.e. no force power left (no force attacks), no stamina and was exhausted i.e. couldn't swing his light saber, kick, punch, jump or get about much, do you think he couldn't get killed by a vastly weaker Sith Apprentice??? When he was THAT vulnerable? I feel that is more realistic than being immortal to be honest

 

P.S. My Juggernaught is 65 and my Assasin is close to 60 so it isn't because I want to beat stronger characters. I just don't like 1 hit kills etc and immortality. I want challenge. If you are a genuinely skilled player like me, you won't be getting beat by lower buffed players and enemies. Just saying

 

Don't quote this trash of an excuse scenario as lore... You want to talk about lore? Level 10 Luke Skywalker, fresh off Tatooine with his brand new lightsaber, taking on ROTJ Darth Vader, exhausted, low HP after taking a beating, and you think lore justifies a noob destroying a Sith Lord in that scenario?

 

Here's a much more accurate description of lore... A Level 55 ROTJ Luke Skywalker, through a judicious use of his heroic moments disarms and nearly kills a Level 60 Darth Vader who was already worn out and low on HP. He then gets overconfident and takes on a Level 65 Emperor and is promptly melted with little effort. Sound familiar? Maybe I should mention the Rebels are attacking the second Death Star's reactor so you understand the difference between true lore and what you're trying to pass off as lore.

 

That 10 level gap between being effective and being helpless is what we had before sync... No mob or player could touch you with 10+ levels on them in any meaningful way.

 

As of now....a Level 65 Yoda goes to Tatooine, is sync'd to level 18 and is promptly killed by a level 18 Darth Maul. And you say this is ok because "lore"..... Rethink your argument. If you still think it's sound, rethink it again.

 

One more thought... Boba Fett has some of the best armor in the known universe. It's so effective it can almost stop a lightsaber... Except when Boba goes to Tatooine to see Jabba. At that point, his universally impressive armor, known throughout the galaxy and feared, can't stop the teeth of a womp rat because he's been sync'd to level 18.... The womp rats won't kill Boba, but if 20 of them surround him, the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, with the most powerful weapons and armor money and good operations can buy, will probably lose half of his hit points for no good reason.

 

Level sync doesn't make the levels pointless, you still have a whole bunch of extra powers.

 

Stop using this excuse... Those "extra powers" run on stats, which..............you guessed it, level sync GIMPS. Having 20 extra abilities doesn't mean jack if your stats are so low they're barely effective. The issue is that our stats were screwed with. I don't care if BW syncs my level down to 18 when I go to Tatooine; what I do care about is my Consulor at level 65 has ~6000 Mastery and ~5500 Endurance which gives me ~77,000 HP. When I "travel to another planet", I magically forget these things and wind up with 4,000 HP, 800 Mastery and 800 Endurance.... That "magical power" projection I had that previously did 4,000 damage per tick, now does 250 per tick.

 

The fact that I have projection and a "true" level 18 doesn't, doesn't change the fact that the ability is useless because it no longer has POWER behind it.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Princess_Chibi

[JourrnoRush]

I've yet to run into issues on a lvl sync planet at 65.

 

I think this is the "companions need more POWER HELP ME PLS" crowd showing its ugly head once again...

 

BW won't cave in on this, the game is fine now.

[IslanderRebel]

What is the point of having leveling such a large part of the game if you have level sync making the levels pointless?

 

Just curious really, don't care much either way but seems strange to me to make you level then take those levels away depending on where you are standing.

 

Plus 10 for this person.

Why the grind only to become a shrinking violet just because you want to go visit Alderran before it's nuked?

LOL

 

i should give you a million credits for the number ONE reason why level sync is bologna.

[DonRobsy]

Don't quote this trash of an excuse scenario as lore... You want to talk about lore? Level 10 Luke Skywalker, fresh off Tatooine with his brand new lightsaber, taking on ROTJ Darth Vader, exhausted, low HP after taking a beating, and you think lore justifies a noob destroying a Sith Lord in that scenario?

 

Here's a much more accurate description of lore... A Level 55 ROTJ Luke Skywalker, through a judicious use of his heroic moments disarms and nearly kills a Level 60 Darth Vader who was already worn out and low on HP. He then gets overconfident and takes on a Level 65 Emperor and is promptly melted with little effort. Sound familiar? Maybe I should mention the Rebels are attacking the second Death Star's reactor so you understand the difference between true lore and what you're trying to pass off as lore.

 

That 10 level gap between being effective and being helpless is what we had before sync... No mob or player could touch you with 10+ levels on them in any meaningful way.

 

As of now....a Level 65 Yoda goes to Tatooine, is sync'd to level 18 and is promptly killed by a level 18 Darth Maul. And you say this is ok because "lore"..... Rethink your argument. If you still think it's sound, rethink it again.

 

One more thought... Boba Fett has some of the best armor in the known universe. It's so effective it can almost stop a lightsaber... Except when Boba goes to Tatooine to see Jabba. At that point, his universally impressive armor, known throughout the galaxy and feared, can't stop the teeth of a womp rat because he's been sync'd to level 18.... The womp rats won't kill Boba, but if 20 of them surround him, the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, with the most powerful weapons and armor money and good operations can buy, will probably lose half of his hit points for no good reason.

 

 

 

Stop using this excuse... Those "extra powers" run on stats, which..............you guessed it, level sync GIMPS. Having 20 extra abilities doesn't mean jack if your stats are so low they're barely effective. The issue is that our stats were screwed with. I don't care if BW syncs my level down to 18 when I go to Tatooine; what I do care about is my Consulor at level 65 has ~6000 Mastery and ~5500 Endurance which gives me ~77,000 HP. When I "travel to another planet", I magically forget these things and wind up with 4,000 HP, 800 Mastery and 800 Endurance.... That "magical power" projection I had that previously did 4,000 damage per tick, now does 250 per tick.

 

The fact that I have projection and a "true" level 18 doesn't, doesn't change the fact that the ability is useless because it no longer has POWER behind it.

 

Sorry but the thought of that makes me cackle. If you are a level 65 Yoda synced to lvl 18 and you get promptly killed by a true lvl 18 Maul, then I'm afraid you should....take a deep breath, log out, delete your characters, log onto online banking, cancel your direct debit to SWTOR, shut down your internet, power off your computer then step away from your machine because this isn't the game for you!

 

And regarding my lore I guess I am referring to consistency or even the game levels making more sense and being in tune to Star Wars Universe. I read that Darth Vadar once nearly got bested by a bounty hunter in a one on one and had a tough fight vs some alien animals which would be the equivalent to random Mobs on the game. No one should be Godly period.

 

P.S. Boba Fett is a Bish

[Ghisallo]

You know what...I don't have an issue with it being non-mandatory... The thing is this...click it off? No credit. That's the thing. I am a more FIEND. From an immersion standpoint I agree that the troopers on Balmora have no logical reason to be push overs in comparison to the ones serving Revan on Rishi.

 

The thing is this is a level based MMORPG so at times the lore/story must give way to the mechanical conventions in the game. Now in a SP RPG this may not be a problem. You are on a single track...you level increases, so do the bad guys BUT you can't go back and pick on the little guys. In a persistent world level based MMO you can go back.

 

So no worries making it non-mandatory but if when youbzone to Hoth and don't click that optional "sync" button, don't expect real exp or quest completion credit imo.

[Ghisallo]

Don't quote this trash of an excuse scenario as lore... You want to talk about lore? Level 10 Luke Skywalker, fresh off Tatooine with his brand new lightsaber, taking on ROTJ Darth Vader, exhausted, low HP after taking a beating, and you think lore justifies a noob destroying a Sith Lord in that scenario?

 

Here's a much more accurate description of lore... A Level 55 ROTJ Luke Skywalker, through a judicious use of his heroic moments disarms and nearly kills a Level 60 Darth Vader who was already worn out and low on HP. He then gets overconfident and takes on a Level 65 Emperor and is promptly melted with little effort. Sound familiar? Maybe I should mention the Rebels are attacking the second Death Star's reactor so you understand the difference between true lore and what you're trying to pass off as lore.

 

That 10 level gap between being effective and being helpless is what we had before sync... No mob or player could touch you with 10+ levels on them in any meaningful way.

 

As of now....a Level 65 Yoda goes to Tatooine, is sync'd to level 18 and is promptly killed by a level 18 Darth Maul. And you say this is ok because "lore"..... Rethink your argument. If you still think it's sound, rethink it again.

 

One more thought... Boba Fett has some of the best armor in the known universe. It's so effective it can almost stop a lightsaber... Except when Boba goes to Tatooine to see Jabba. At that point, his universally impressive armor, known throughout the galaxy and feared, can't stop the teeth of a womp rat because he's been sync'd to level 18.... The womp rats won't kill Boba, but if 20 of them surround him, the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, with the most powerful weapons and armor money and good operations can buy, will probably lose half of his hit points for no good reason.

 

 

 

Stop using this excuse... Those "extra powers" run on stats, which..............you guessed it, level sync GIMPS. Having 20 extra abilities doesn't mean jack if your stats are so low they're barely effective. The issue is that our stats were screwed with. I don't care if BW syncs my level down to 18 when I go to Tatooine; what I do care about is my Consulor at level 65 has ~6000 Mastery and ~5500 Endurance which gives me ~77,000 HP. When I "travel to another planet", I magically forget these things and wind up with 4,000 HP, 800 Mastery and 800 Endurance.... That "magical power" projection I had that previously did 4,000 damage per tick, now does 250 per tick.

 

The fact that I have projection and a "true" level 18 doesn't, doesn't change the fact that the ability is useless because it no longer has POWER behind it.

 

On your first paragraph...that is supposed to show that Luke is a prodigy.

 

You have to remember something. Before the prequels Lucas referred to Luke as "the chosen one" to bring balance to the force. He was the Force version of Mozart, who first composed music when he was 5 and wrote his first symphony when he was 8. BUT as was Lucas' style he changed his mind come the prequels.

 

Just a fact check.

[Raphael_diSanto]

Levels have nothing to do with in-story power. I see both sides of this argument using the lore card and frankly, it's not a great card to play. Levels are an arbitrary mechanical device designed to keep players on the vertical progression treadmill, not a reflection of narrative character power.

 

In-game mechanical power is not indicative of in-story character power. If that were the case, then the most powerful beings in the galaxy would be the operations bosses. The members of the Jedi Council or Dark Council wouldn't even rate on that scale. Hell, if that were the case, we wouldn't be able to beat Arcann down to an inch of his life and then have him kick our butts in a cut scene.

 

Darth Jadus, reckoned to be one of the most powerful members of the Dark Council - You fight him at the end of Ch1. That puts him around 30/32. Of course, when you fight Baras (pre-level sync) he's 50. Guess Jadus wasn't even close to being one of the most powerful members of the Council. That's just one example. Of course, Jadus is - I believe - level 50, in his non-combat version when you first meet him on Dromond Kaas. I guess somewhere along the way between that first meeting at the chapter 1 end fight he forgot some of his powers.

 

People put way too much stock into levels and mechanical in-game power vs narrative/story character power. Levels simply exist to keep enemies at an appropriate mechanical power as players progress vertically.

 

I accept and understand the arguments about a higher level player getting killed by a lower level enemy, and how level sync makes that more likely to happen, although the further down the scale you go, the less likely it is to happen.

 

The problem is that the game itself is very contradictory in this context. Tython's enemies range from 1 to 10. Qyzen's supposed to already be a skilled, experienced hunter by the time you meet him. On Korriban they tell you that no one returns from these tombs. You have to take all of this stuff with the biggest bag of salt that you can. In the case of flashpoint/operations bosses, somehow they're magically more or less powerful based on what mode you're in - solo/tactical/hardmode. Mechanical in-game power means NOTHING. Say it with me, folks. It's a purely arbitrary abstraction of a way to give players their desired mechanical challenge level.

 

Hell, pre-level sync even the -same- NPC can magically change level, based on which planet you happen to encounter him on. When the Inquisitor fights Thanaton on Dromond Kaas for the first time, he's not the same level as when you fight him on Corellia, and then later on Korriban.

 

I apologize to all the simulationists out there who really really desperately want to believe that higher level = more mechanically powerful, but it just ain't true. Except when it is. See? The game is just full of too many contradictions to been consistent in this manner. All level-based games are this way. It's just the way the numbers work. You have to ignore them. I know, I know, simulationists are pathologically incapable of ignoring the numbers. There ain't no way to rationalize them though. Sorry.

 

For me, the best thing about level sync is that BioWare can spawn event mobs without fear of overwhelming the local players on those planets. I think that can only be a good thing.

 

I'm not a huge fan of forced level sync. I dislike Guild Wars 2's implementation of it. I think BioWare's is somewhat better. Frankly, the chances of my level 65 character dying on Hutta are so laughable remote, it's like it's not even there. When you can two-shot a gold enemy with your basic attack, it's really not an issue.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto