Cartel Market Changes Coming in Fallen Empire!

[Fordbird]

You must learn the difference between listening to and doing what someone says.

 

Just because they don't do what you say, doesn't mean they haven't listened. Besides, they also listen to all those people who do like these changes. What makes you think your opinion is more deserving than theirs? Probably just that fantasy that you belong to some mysterious majority?

 

And hey, this topic didn't have anywhere near the heated debate going on between players about who wanted it the way they planned it or how they will do it now, did it?

 

Read the forums on class changes...there is only a player base of 1 or 2 advanced classes happy about the incoming changes. This is 2/8. I would say that 6/8 is a clear majority. What makes YOU think that a minority of "happy" players should dictate the course of the game for the rest (majority)?

[Sorens]

Glad to see the changes, at least some of them, to be honest it does sound a bit complicated, to me anyways so im hoping its actually easier to get once i see it

A lot of the items on the cartel market are very interesting and visually appealing, so i am glad there is a way to get them. That being said i am very sad that the cartel market continues to be such a big part of your plans, adding more things to it and reworking the system, instead of trying to find a way how to introduce the items as rewards for stuff playsers can do in the world, like the achievements or certain feets or discoveries. Since we have the achievement system, something aside for points might as well be bound to it.

[Rundin]

Read the forums on class changes...there is only a player base of 1 or 2 advanced classes happy about the incoming changes. This is 2/8. I would say that 6/8 is a clear majority. What makes YOU think that a minority of "happy" players should dictate the course of the game for the rest (majority)?

 

What number are you drawing this from? The people whining in the thread itself or the numerous people simply not responding due to the non-issues? If the number of people complaining were the only ones with problems with the changes, wouldn't it suggest that all of the ones not responding like the changes or are indifferent? That is what your magic hat number suggests. Either way, the numbers are arbitrary, so no real claims can be made either way.

 

"Fifty percent of all statistics are inaccurate."

Edited October 3, 2015 by Rundin

[idnewton]

For those who think that rarer items will be easier to acquire with credits or otherwise. MUAHAHAHAH.. AHHAHAHAHA. Naive.

 

For those who think there aren't players with 100 million credits to throw around for stupid stuff. MUAHAHAHAH.. AHHAHAHAHA. Naïve.

[idnewton]

What number are you drawing this from? The people whining in the thread itself or the numerous people simply not responding due to the non-issues?

 

This. A lot of the time when people like a change, they won't go to the forums and praise BW because the stupid people who make up this community will then label them as Bio-Drones. Most people won't voice agreements with a change, only disagreements, so looking at the proportion of supporters to whiners on any given topic is not an accurate representation of the community.

[Noyjitat]

You must learn the difference between listening to and doing what someone says.

 

Just because they don't do what you say, doesn't mean they haven't listened. Besides, they also listen to all those people who do like these changes. What makes you think your opinion is more deserving than theirs? Probably just that fantasy that you belong to some mysterious majority?

 

And hey, this topic didn't have anywhere near the heated debate going on between players about who wanted it the way they planned it or how they will do it now, did it?

 

1. Clearly if I put as many words into there mouth as you tried putting into mine, they might hear me.

2. And that's the exact problem we've always had. Change what a few people don't like and never fix or change something that many don't like.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Noyjitat

[Noyjitat]

Read the forums on class changes...there is only a player base of 1 or 2 advanced classes happy about the incoming changes. This is 2/8. I would say that 6/8 is a clear majority. What makes YOU think that a minority of "happy" players should dictate the course of the game for the rest (majority)?

 

The forums shouldn't be the only thing they use for determining stuff like this. The average player of every game doesn't even use the forums, or view the facebook or twitter page or god knows how many other social media areas they will spread information out on... If they wanted to get real feedback they'd post surveys on the launcher and ingame email system.

 

It isn't until something huge and game breaking goes live when some of those people finally login and make a post.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Noyjitat

[Faelandaea]

Please release content that was only previously available through certain retailers!

 

If I understand your request correctly, that would not be right in my opinion. Yeah there are certain special items from pre-orders that I REALLY wish I had that were only available from specific retailers, but the point of those promotions were to reward specific players with special rewards for going that route to make their purchases. This also related to my feedback above of why I hope they do not release items that were previously listed as "limited time", because those items were supposed to be rewards for players playing at that time and acquiring that item while that promotion was in effect.

 

I saw another MMO do something similar. They gave special rewards out to pre-orders, and to people who were subscribed at a particular time. Later on they started handing those same items out to everyone in the cash shop. A LOT of players left that MMO - not because of selfishness, but because of the principal of the matter. I feel the same way. Do not give me a title or reward for digging into my pocket to pre-order, or come back and subscribe at a certain time, just to make those rewards completely meaningless in the future.

 

I know how you feel and can definitely have empathy with it. I am one of those who missed the pre-order for the Hutt cartel, so I don;t have a Hutt Statue to use nor do I have access to a means to get one. BUT, I also recognize that those players who DO have one were specially rewarded for that pre-order. I was the one who chose not to be in game at that time, not them, so I think asking the devs to make me able to get that statue is actually wrong, and a slap to those pre-order customers' faces.

 

BW/Devs, if you are reading this, and are listening, I hope that these points are being taken into consideration before deciding to just throw everything from special orders, special times and such back into the cash shop for what would be seen as nothing but yet another cash grab. I'll keep subscribing, and i will keep supporting you, and if you honor those players who feel the same I am certain you will still keep making money from them in that way as well.

[Eanelinea]

My one concern after reading the whole thread to date is the price of the individual packs. In older packs, we got 5 items per pack. In the current ones, six. Now we're going down to two. We are losing between 60 and 66 percent of the items in each pack. I deeply hope that the price will be adjusted accordingly. Which would take the subscriber rate (currently at 250 coins per pack) down to either 100 or 83 coins.

 

Agreed. If we're only getting 2 items instead of 5, I hope the price will go down.

 

Also, I like the direct sales, especially during events when items like the Trick or Treat meditation chamber or the Vectron J-0Y vehicle are on there.

[DarthDymond]

• The current list of available direct sale items will be pruned down quite a bit.
  

They're something of an artifact the early days of the CM now, but there are some direct-sale armors still on the CM that have Mods in them (the Outrider's Flight Jacket for one). These armors are currently not unlockable via the Collections menu (presumably to avoid getting unlimited number of Mods from the 'reclaimed' copies).

 

Are they coming off the Market as part of this 'housecleaning' effort that's coming with 4.0?

Are they still not going to be unlockable on the Collections menu if that happens?

Are they going to be included as possible drops in the aggregate Packs? (I know the DevBlog said that they will include "all" existing sources, including Direct Sale, but wanted to double check on these because they do seem like they may be a special case / exception.)

 

This seems like a great time to give us the option to claim additional copies of these armors' shells (obviously we shouldn't be able to claim unlimited copies of the items with the mods installed).

Edited October 4, 2015 by DarthDymond

[LordElpus]

Hey folks,

 

Thank you for all your feedback today. Based off of that feedback we will be reverting the change to the reputation vendors. We are still condensing down to a single vendor per reputation, but it will contain all items that are currently available on Live.

 

Please keep the feedback coming.

 

Dan Bunten

Cartel Market Producer

 

If you do merge to a single vendor per rep, then please add some useful filters (ie Weapons, Armour, Decorations.. etc)

[LordElpus]

They're something of an artifact the early days of the CM now, but there are some direct-sale armors still on the CM that have Mods in them (the Outrider's Flight Jacket for one). These armors are currently not unlockable via the Collections menu (presumably to avoid getting unlimited number of Mods from the 'reclaimed' copies).

 

Are they coming off the Market as part of this 'housecleaning' effort that's coming with 4.0?

Are they still not going to be unlockable on the Collections menu if that happens?

Are they going to be included as possible drops in the aggregate Packs? (I know the DevBlog said that they will include "all" existing sources, including Direct Sale, but wanted to double check on these because they do seem like they may be a special case / exception.)

 

This seems like a great time to give us the option to claim additional copies of these armors' shells (obviously we shouldn't be able to claim unlimited copies of the items with the mods installed).

 

Good point on the Armour sets with mods, etc. Is there any way of rewarding a unlock of the shells to collection of those armours (when they have been bound)?

[Karkais]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ruskaeth

For those who think that rarer items will be easier to acquire with credits or otherwise. MUAHAHAHAH.. AHHAHAHAHA. Naive.

 

I can guarantee items that are returned to circulation in whatever rarity, are easier to acquire than those that are NOT in the circulation. I have made lots of money hoarding cartel market items until the packs rotate out, and only then sell them. The prices of items that are no longer available except through some collectors cargohold, shoot through the roof.

 

I never implied you could get them by opening packs. But you will most likely be able to get them buying packs, selling valuable stuff from there and buying the item you want with that money, or trade them. (to simplify a little). Compared to paying multiple millions for an item that cost few hundred grand when it was still in the circulation.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Karkais

[Glzmo]

Are there any plans for making all the cartel market/pack dyes learnable by crafters or at least make them unlockable for the account via collections? It's pretty ridiculous how hard it is to get one's hands on certain color combinations for one's outfit. Edited October 4, 2015 by Glzmo

[Noyjitat]

Are there any plans for making all the cartel market/pack dyes learnable by crafters or at least make them unlockable for the account via collections? It's pretty ridiculous how hard it is to get one's hands on certain color combinations for one's outfit.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath on getting anything new added to crafting that they can simply charge us for instead. But that sure would be awesome.

 

I really want to see more single colors added too such as yellow/yellow, red/red and teal/teal. And since it's so popular there should be a black/*insert color* and *insert color*/black of every variation.

[Transcendent]

Hey folks,

 

Based on a lot of the feedback we have been seeing I noticed I missed a few details in the blog.

 

 

- Any existing pack in your bank/inventory will not be affected by any of these changes.

- Armor Sets from the Monthly Cartel Packs will come in 3 lootboxes (Upper, Lower, Auxiliary).

- Bronze, Silver, and Gold Armor Packs will contain full armor sets.

- The new Shipment will not have a reputation associated with it.

- Any item that was specific to a reputation (aka not available in a pack) will continue to be available for purchase from the associated Reputation vendor.

- Reputations from previous Shipments will still be made available through the packs on the GTN and Grand Shipment Packs that will return the the market from time to time.

 

As with all things Cartel Market, things are subject to change based on your feedback.

 

 

Dan Bunten

Cartel Market Producer

 

Just a small question, because I didn't notice this on my first read through of the blog.

 

What is happening with Cartel Market Certificates, will they still drop in packs? Or are these being removed, as well as the removal of requirements of Cartel Market Certificates for items on reputation vendors?

[chaharbagh]

If I understand your request correctly, that would not be right in my opinion. Yeah there are certain special items from pre-orders that I REALLY wish I had that were only available from specific retailers, but the point of those promotions were to reward specific players with special rewards for going that route to make their purchases. This also related to my feedback above of why I hope they do not release items that were previously listed as "limited time", because those items were supposed to be rewards for players playing at that time and acquiring that item while that promotion was in effect.

 

I saw another MMO do something similar. They gave special rewards out to pre-orders, and to people who were subscribed at a particular time. Later on they started handing those same items out to everyone in the cash shop. A LOT of players left that MMO - not because of selfishness, but because of the principal of the matter. I feel the same way. Do not give me a title or reward for digging into my pocket to pre-order, or come back and subscribe at a certain time, just to make those rewards completely meaningless in the future.

 

I know how you feel and can definitely have empathy with it. I am one of those who missed the pre-order for the Hutt cartel, so I don;t have a Hutt Statue to use nor do I have access to a means to get one. BUT, I also recognize that those players who DO have one were specially rewarded for that pre-order. I was the one who chose not to be in game at that time, not them, so I think asking the devs to make me able to get that statue is actually wrong, and a slap to those pre-order customers' faces.

 

BW/Devs, if you are reading this, and are listening, I hope that these points are being taken into consideration before deciding to just throw everything from special orders, special times and such back into the cash shop for what would be seen as nothing but yet another cash grab. I'll keep subscribing, and i will keep supporting you, and if you honor those players who feel the same I am certain you will still keep making money from them in that way as well.

 

Just the ones that were available through retailers like Target, Walmart, Amazon, etc.

[Faelandaea]

Just the ones that were available through retailers like Target, Walmart, Amazon, etc.

 

Yeah that was the point. Those were special limited time, exclusive promotions licensed specifically for those retailers. Those retailers made special deals with BW in order to offer an item for promotional purposes. If BW made those items available to everyone now, it would be violating those agreements with those retailers, and a slap in the face to players who supported a specific retailer for a specific promotional item.

 

If this happens, the next step will be people saying "Hey we didn't pre-order or Beta before SWTOR was launched, but let us buy those titles and promotional items as well. And while you are at it toss in the Hutt statues, etc. because there is no point in a player having a unique item to show for taking advantage of something during a limited time when it was exclusive. Now I know that is not what YOU were asking for, but it would be a side effect if BW caved and tossed aside all recognition of unique promotional rewards and said "Screw it. Customers who took advantage of an offer back then aren't important to us now, because we already have their money."

 

I understand where you are coming from, don't get me wrong. But promotional items should really stay that way. If you missed a promotion, don't worry, there are other items - LOTS of other items - and even more items are added all the time.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Faelandaea

[chaharbagh]

Yeah that was the point. Those were special limited time, exclusive promotions licensed specifically for those retailers. Those retailers made special deals with BW in order to offer an item for promotional purposes. If BW made those items available to everyone now, it would be violating those agreements with those retailers, and a slap in the face to players who supported a specific retailer for a specific promotional item.

 

If this happens, the next step will be people saying "Hey we didn't pre-order or Beta before SWTOR was launched, but let us buy those titles and promotional items as well. And while you are at it toss in the Hutt statues, etc. because there is no point in a player having a unique item to show for taking advantage of something during a limited time when it was exclusive. Now I know that is not what YOU were asking for, but it would be a side effect if BW caved and tossed aside all recognition of unique promotional rewards and said "Screw it. Customers who took advantage of an offer back then aren't important to us now, because we already have their money."

 

I understand where you are coming from, don't get me wrong. But promotional items should really stay that way. If you missed a promotion, don't worry, there are other items - LOTS of other items - and even more items are added all the time.

 

What if the retailers and BioWare renegotiated said deals?

[Faelandaea]

What if the retailers and BioWare renegotiated said deals?

 

I don;t foresee them doing that, because again that would be a slap in the face to the customers who took advantage of such offers under the specific understanding that they were getting a special, unique reward that was based on that one-time offer. A lot of MMO games have always had special retail rewards and never have I seen an MMO renege on a reward and make it meaningless to the original reward holders like that.

 

The whole purpose of the special retail item deal is just that - the item isn't a purchase - it is a reward as a result of a specific condition of a purchase.

 

The best that should be hoed for is a re-skin of a similar item, which is acceptable.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Karkais]

What if the retailers and BioWare renegotiated said deals?

 

Chances of this happening are zero, considering the retailers would gain nothing out of it and its just not worth the work for Bioware.

[Saito_Hiraga]

Here's some stuff that I would like to talk about:

 

Pack Embargos – When a monthly pack is removed from the Cartel Market, it is unlikely to return to the market in that form. However, the specific items that are found in that pack are all automatically placed in their corresponding Bronze, Silver or Gold Pack. Ex: The Example pack launches on September 1st with an example mount. On September 1st, you can also now get the Example mount out of the Silver and Gold Mount packs. On October 1st, the Example pack is embargoed from the Cartel Market, however, the Example mount will remain available in the Silver and Gold packs for the rest of time.

 

Not sure if I understood well, but from what I get here I suppose you are prettending to dump all items on each category on a general pool made of the entire item list of that named category included on all packs ever released; From which you only get to draw one item from that pool each time you buy a pack.

 

Lets say we got already around 50 - 70 different mounts available till now, and some packs later that number escalates to 100. All those mounts are being added to the list you can draw from on the Grand Packs.

 

What if I'm trying to get just 1 of those 100 mounts? just imagine the possibilities, its just 1/100 which means I would have to buy a huge ammount of packs to get my mount, and after 1000 packs I might still not get it.

Even after being a game of luck to buy a pack, most people buy them in order to get that particular items they want to collect. If the odds to get them are almost impossible I don't really see them trying to buy the packs.

 

But don't get me wrong, I really love where this Gold/Silver/Bronze packs and the Grand Packs idea is going I just really think you shouldn't just dump all the pack items on each category into the Grand Pack's or the G/S/B pack's general pool. I think it would be better if you separate all those items on tiers, in order for them to work as it seemed to be intended to work with the Grand Packs we already got before (Example: First Grand Adquisitions Pack, First Grand Crystal Pack, First Grand Mount Pack, etc.)

Here's an idea of what I'm trying to explain:

First Grand (Insert item category here) Pack. This pack contains one (named category) item from the Cartel, Contraband and Bounty Packs.

Second Grand (Category) Pack. This pack contains one (named category) item from the Starfighter, Stronghold and Shadow Packs.

**Now for the third pack, being the explorer packs the last set released; This pack could include a random item of all that set of packs**

Third Grand (Category) Pack. This pack contains one (named category) item from the Explorer Packs.

**After that when the next packs get removed their contents on each category get into the Third Grand Packs categories' pool instead to an always increasing general pool. That until the 3 pack sets get completely embargoed so a Fourth Grand Pack starts to run with the newest pack removal**

 

This should give players better odds to get the items they are trying to get. and would motivate them to keep buying packs.

[Saito_Hiraga]

Also I think Decorations need a complete section of the Cartel Market made for them, not just a Grand Pack and some ocassional direct sales.

Since they are not the kind of items you can usually unlock on your collections to get infinite copies you need an always available way to keep getting the decorations you need.

 

The section should include the already available permanent direct sale decorations along a list of at least 10-15 of random direct sale decorations of the embargoed packs that changes every week.

Also Decorations could use some special Grand Packs based on a Decoration Category, For example a pack that includes only furniture, other for civic themed items, another for personnel, technology, etc. available ocassionally so you get a chance to adquire new stuff from that category you are missing.

[chaharbagh]

I don;t foresee them doing that, because again that would be a slap in the face to the customers who took advantage of such offers under the specific understanding that they were getting a special, unique reward that was based on that one-time offer. A lot of MMO games have always had special retail rewards and never have I seen an MMO renege on a reward and make it meaningless to the original reward holders like that.

 

The whole purpose of the special retail item deal is just that - the item isn't a purchase - it is a reward as a result of a specific condition of a purchase.

 

The best that should be hoed for is a re-skin of a similar item, which is acceptable.

 

Let's agree to disagree on what would be a slap in the face.

[Ravanos]

Do Ea/Bioware have a gambling license for online play? And who controls the "fairness" of the dice roll

system when it comes to the cartel packs? And is it ethical to have gambling with real money in a age 13+ game?