Mikahrtwo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 well said. look bioware, over a thousand posts in this thread alone and there are many other posts questioning your idea of forced level sync. it needs to be optional... If same 5 people spam the thread it can easily get to 10k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazulfi Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 For the record, I quit LOTRO because they kept making the Captain worse. What was a great class in Alpha/Closed Beta got made worse and worse and worse and even though I have a lifetime membership I haven't touched the game for ages and ages. That has nothing to do with this current discussion, I'm just saying it because they screwed Captains! *shakes fist* Honestly, I'm not really of the opinion that raiders should be catered to. I do believe that they are a small bbut very vocal minority in most every game I have been a part of and I have been around since before there were graphics. As a Wizard/Admin on MUD's and as a creator of the same we always had to deal with the small segment who wanted to achieve and be 'elite' and balancing the games well enough for it to be fun for them and then fun for the rest of the community that was far larger was difficult to say the least. The concern I have with the level sync system was that it was introduced purely as a way to 'breath new life' into old content. And I get this as a motivation and I can understand why it has been considered a good idea by the people implementing it. My greater concern though is how it affects the game's longevity as I've been around long enough to know that hinging your hopes on the 'new players' you hope to attract from the changes generally does not work well. It has been my own experience that it is a much more difficult route and one that requires an investment from the developer/producer to create a game people like. This is NOT catering to what they say they want on the message boards, because what players say they want and what they actually stick around and play with are two different things. More you need to create player experiences, gauge interest in opportunities that players are expressing an interest in. Often Raiders aren't really looking for the progression and the tough bosses, they are looking for instances in which teamwork and group participation are rewarded most often with loot and titles. Certainly there is an even smaller subset that are truly gifted gamers and they are looking for a supreme challenge, but these people are part of a tiny tiny subset and catering to them makes the game unattractive to the majority. SWTOR's main failing has, in my opinion, been that by focusing to much on _their_ story they have made it difficult to create your own stories. While having the single player experience in place is certianly a good thing, they should also have focused on the tools that allowed players to 'create' their own content and adding sandbox elements to the themepark. Also, as other players are likely going to always be your best and biggest challenge, it was a shame when SWTOR focused on the WoW model of 'Warzones' and did not utilise their purchase of Mythic to create an integrated 'realm vs realm' PVP system that did not require participation but which served as a stand in for 'raids'. Its very difficult to feel you are part of a galactic conflict 16 players at a time. This is not really the place for a treatise on the subject and I by no means have all the answers, but I can say Level Syncing like this appears to me as a potential for significant diminishment of a game I loved. Recycling old content isn't going to encourage the old players and its not likely to hook the new ones either. So shortly after they put in the 12x system (one I was quite opposed to mind you) because players were telling you they were 'bored' with repeating content, you change your system to remove the 12x you added in AND tell them they're going to essentially repeat old content on planets they've already been through. Its not because the content was too easy that they didn't want to go back. Its unfortunate that many of the things I would do, given total control, can not be done due to engine limitations. My expectation is that this is going to go live, people will devour the story line, they'll try to grind out their companion influence/alliances and then swiftly be bored by the newly glacial pace of 'achievement' especially as they learn they're going to have to repeat this multiple times on multiple characters. Making it more 'challenging' by enforcing level syncing just stretches this out into a 'grind' and most players, no matter their type, really dislike the grind and dislike it more so when they have multiple characters that will have to experience the same. Scaling 'heroic content' only, and working on systems that are dynamic content, would have been a better move IMO. Random 'Dungeons' and missions, with puzzle elements, team work requirements, but 'scaling' so that the content is challenging but has no level requirement so all players of all levels can participate would likely have been more well received. Think 'Kuat' on steroids. When instead of a small number of mission types with the same map each time, and just 'pick three' you create puzzle elements and integrate many of them into a single instance.... but this would have required more effort. But frankly, I would have spent millions on my coders not my animators making a spiffy short movie. I'm rambling at this point so I'll stop. Agree with so much of what you've said, particularly about giving players tools to create their own experiences and memories, by giving them plenty to do. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikahrtwo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Agree with so much of what you've said, particularly about giving players tools to create their own experiences and memories, by giving them plenty to do. Exactly. Ye, but if that ever happens it will be SWTOR 2. AN, ironically, it will be lot like SWG pre NGE. So, in other words, youre more likely to get this game if you start making your own than waiting on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Ye, but if that ever happens it will be SWTOR 2. AN, ironically, it will be lot like SWG pre NGE.Proving you didn't read the post he was agreeing with. Edited October 15, 2015 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 geez it is never going to be optional at least like you people want it to be , theres a huge diference from the 12x xp beeing made optional and this... 12x xp only affacted your character . This if made optional would impact other players aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 If same 5 people spam the thread it can easily get to 10k. this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 geez it is never going to be optional at least like you people want it to be , theres a huge diference from the 12x xp beeing made optional and this... 12x xp only affacted your character . This if made optional would impact other players aswell. How does my level impact others exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) How does my level impact others exactly? gank players for starters (pvp servers), griefing by killing the world bosses over and over again (which you know were made to be beaten by a group) and if you got the same rewards as a synced player... whats the point then, either its for everyone or remove it completly, there is no optional here at least how the game is built. The only solution would be if they made a new server without level sync, thats the only way to avoid all the whine and drama. Edited October 15, 2015 by xxIncubixx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 gank players for starters, griefing by killing the world bosses over and over again and if you got the same rewards as a synced player... whats the point then, either its for everyone or remove it completly, there is no optional here at least how the game is built. PvP servers are dead son. Bioware sure as hell isn't doing this to protect PvPers lol. And why the hell would you think they're stupid enough to reward a level sync'd player the same as someone who wasn't descaled? Does that honestly make sense to you? Or do you think they might be smart enough to tie rewards to a quest that requires them to be descaled? Think about this one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 those world bosses are such hot ticket items apparently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) those world bosses are such hot ticket items apparently! Right?! I love the excuse "If I've got a group of 23 people waiting to kill it and some 60 walks in and attacks, he's screwed up 23 players fun", like that's ever happening and like it matters any way...attack or don't, it's no single groups to take down...first come, first serve, that's EXACTLY how Bioware designed them!!! It keeps that group of 23 coming back to try again. Edited October 15, 2015 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 gank players for starters (pvp servers), griefing by killing the world bosses over and over again (which you know were made to be beaten by a group) and if you got the same rewards as a synced player... whats the point then, either its for everyone or remove it completly, there is no optional here at least how the game is built. The only solution would be if they made a new server without level sync, thats the only way to avoid all the whine and drama. LOL... . You can STILL GANK PVP players (Just takes a tad longer now to kill them) - That is a BIG help... NOT WB - yea.. STILL can tag that boss and/or taunt and pull off the group if they have NOT tagged him yet. Rewards are crap anyways and I'll not be doing these H2 level sync'd crap. Blue gear.. Pfft... SM OPS will give me better than that and less headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeneas_Falco Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) I like *some* aspects of level sync. I think it will breath new life into old content in making it viable to go back and play for people who outleveled it, and would provide incentive for high level players to group with low level players to help with old heroics or flashpoints. In theory it should make finding a group or help, much easier. My issue is simply with it not being optional. There are many times where I'd love to revisit old content or help other players without losing out on XP or quest rewards, but there are other times where I just want to go from Point A to Point B on an outleveled planet without being bothered too much by mobs in between. Grinding mobs is never fun, particularly when they knock you off your speeder. It is something you tolerate for the quest rewards or to get to more interesting story or gameplay content. On those occasions level sync would be nothing more than an unnecessary and frustrating time sink. Level sync to me seems to be the epitome of a good idea, badly implemented. Bioware needs to make it so that it is toggled. Just as you choose to enter Story Mode or Hard Mode flashpoints, revisiting old worlds or outleveled flashpoints should prompt you with toggle to select to run it level synced or not before entering. Edited October 15, 2015 by Aeneas_Falco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Level sync to me seems to be the epitome of a good idea, badly implemented. Bioware needs to make it so that it is toggled. Just as you choose to enter Story Mode or Hard Mode flashpoints, revisiting old worlds or outleveled flashpoints should prompt you with toggle to select to run it level synced or not before entering. Fantastic post. Well worded and I agree with every word of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swounds Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 The same thing could be achieved by making it optional (ala the Makeb bolster, for example), though. Level Sync isn't the problem. In and of itself, it's a great feature that opens up more options. MANDATORY Level Sync is the problem. I completely agree with this! It should be optional. I can think of plenty of times and situations where I'd enjoy being scaled down for some new challenge (or a replay of an old challenge). But i can think of many more situations it seems like a bad idea: going back to finish exploration achievements, all of those later game missions that send you from one planet to the next with only one objective on each (which is usually placed in a remote area!), and attempting content that may be too much for you to face at level. This last bit is more for people who don't PUG a lot and enjoy re-visiting heroic missions just to experience them. So overall, I would vastly prefer if when we travel to a planet we get to make the choice: Click here to go to Planet X at your current level, Click here to scale down to the planet's max level. I'm no programmer but I can't imagine it to be all that difficult to implement a toggle system like that. I very much want to enjoy the new content and changes; I have a few trepidations, however, and this is one of the big ones. I'll give the expansion a shot but at this point I'm jaded enough to move along if SWTOR makes me too angry lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Right?! I love the excuse "If I've got a group of 23 people waiting to kill it and some 60 walks in and attacks, he's screwed up 23 players fun", like that's ever happening and like it matters any way.. Yes, it did happen. Just because you refuse to believe so and stick your fingers into your ears doesn't mean it didn't happen or can't be breaking the fun experience for some players. If same 5 people spam the thread it can easily get to 10k. I could point out how I see certain people (TUX, PrincessChibi and Max_Killjoy) posting at least two times every two pages, but that would go totally against their believe of it being so many people. It's hard to realize that most people in SW:TOR probably don't care either way. This is not a game breaker. It won't cause the game to surge in subscriber numbers, but it won't kill the game either. I guess people have difficulties realizing that right now. It's disciplines and utilities all over again. People screamed how much the game was going to lose there. That the game would shut down within two months because it was too easy and simplified. The servers were still online last time I checked. People need to start thinking and realize that difficult isn't what most people want these days. They want simple. They want to be the hero easily. They want everything accessible and not be blocked from any content by the invisible wall of learning too much. Same thing here. They don't really care about synch was long as they can beat people with a lightsaber three or four times a year for a few weeks. Kill a Sith and make out with that Twi'lek girl. Done. The simple thing right now: Voices have been heard. Now stick to the thread and don't expect anything for 4.0 to be changed, but look at 4.1 or 4.2. Edited October 15, 2015 by Alssaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) PvP servers are dead son. Bioware sure as hell isn't doing this to protect PvPers lol. And why the hell would you think they're stupid enough to reward a level sync'd player the same as someone who wasn't descaled? Does that honestly make sense to you? Or do you think they might be smart enough to tie rewards to a quest that requires them to be descaled? Think about this one.... Not gonna happen again pvp servers do exist, so your argument isnt valid Edited October 15, 2015 by xxIncubixx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikahrtwo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I like *some* aspects of level sync. I think it will breath new life into old content in making it viable to go back and play for people who outleveled it, and would provide incentive for high level players to group with low level players to help with old heroics or flashpoints. In theory it should make finding a group or help, much easier. My issue is simply with it not being optional. There are many times where I'd love to revisit old content or help other players without losing out on XP or quest rewards, but there are other times where I just want to go from Point A to Point B on an outleveled planet without being bothered too much by mobs in between. Grinding mobs is never fun, particularly when they knock you off your speeder. It is something you tolerate for the quest rewards or to get to more interesting story or gameplay content. On those occasions level sync would be nothing more than an unnecessary and frustrating time sink. Level sync to me seems to be the epitome of a good idea, badly implemented. Bioware needs to make it so that it is toggled. Just as you choose to enter Story Mode or Hard Mode flashpoints, revisiting old worlds or outleveled flashpoints should prompt you with toggle to select to run it level synced or not before entering. Flashpoints as an isolated environmnet is NOT same as open world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 In case any missed it: [...]Level Sync - Any chance to make optional or address concerns?[...] [...] No plans that I know of to make this optional. [...] -eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 In case any missed it: Good. Question answered. Now can we stop spamming the forum with new threads and focus on the one and condemn Bioware in that one for all eternity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikahrtwo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 It's hard to realize that most people in SW:TOR probably don't care either way. This is not a game breaker. thats what they dont realize. They actually think they represent some imaginary "community". They dont realize that couple of them dont make or break SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Good. Question answered. Now can we stop spamming the forum with new threads and focus on the one and condemn Bioware in that one for all eternity? He just said he doesn't know anything and if there were plans, say if they were looking or going to look to see *if* they could do that and *how* he either wouldn't be told or wouldn't be allowed to say they are going to look into it. I doubt it would be added to 4.0 but it doesn't mean it is a dead issue that will never be looked at considered or explored at all ever but I wouldn't advise anyone to hold their breath lest they be on the floor with those asking for a hood toggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Yes, it did happen. Just because you refuse to believe so and stick your fingers into your ears doesn't mean it didn't happen or can't be breaking the fun experience for some players. One time? And you're still crying about it? Act quicker next time. Not gonna happen again pvp servers do exist, so your argument isnt valid I never said they didn't. I played on one for 3-1/2 years...I said they're dead. Your argument is invalid though...let me explain since you seem unable to grasp what I meant - no huge game design change is going to be made because of 3 dead PvP servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxIncubixx Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 One time? And you're still crying about it? Act quicker next time. I never said they didn't. I played on one for 3-1/2 years...I said they're dead. Your argument is invalid though...let me explain since you seem unable to grasp what I meant - no huge game design change is going to be made because of 3 dead PvP servers. And there are no plans to making it optional why is this still going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) And there are no plans to making it optional why is this still going? Presumably because some people want them to change their mind on that point. What's wrong with that? Edited October 15, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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