Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Quraswren]

SNIP..

It doesn't matter what you call it. Mentoring. Syncing. Whatever. A Sync system is a Sync system - period. Anyone else want to try to say that NO one asked for a Sync system in the past? And most of those threads had POSITIVE feedback, too. yet now that they actually put it INTO the game, now all of a sudden it's the end of the world?

 

Because they wanted an optional way to play. A mentoring tool that was optional not forced. A level sync similar to FF that is not forced.

 

What was asked for and what we got are not the same because of implementation. So don't fool yourself into thinking anyone got what was requested and really, did you start any of them?

 

SNIP..

 

You can go back to my 95% vs 5% post.

.

 

The better post was below yours and just how that 95% and 5% doesn't really pan the way you claim.

 

Problem with that is there is no homogeneous "95%" that's doing the same thing - in this MMO or any other. The idea that Raiders or PVPers or Lore fans or whatever are insignificant because they 'only' constitute 5% or whatever is flawed.

 

Even if we accept that only 5% of players are raiding, it doesn't follow that the other 95% are doing the same other activity and subsidizing only the raiders. That thinking makes it seem that:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 95% does
  
• therefore it would be better if [A] went away so resources can go to , which way more people enjoy.
  

 

but in an MMO you actually have something like:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 15% does
  
• 8% does [C]
  
• 13% does [D]
  
• 2% does [E]
  
• 10%...
  

etc, etc, etc, with things like PVP, crafting, collecting achievements, leveling alts, playing minigames, etc., filling in all these many different little niches. Moreover, most players dabble in three or four of them, so a single player might fall into the percentage that does raiding, and the percentage that does PVP, and the percentage that decorates player housing.

 

If you start pruning out everything that falls below a certain threshold, even what may seem like a reasonable number like 20%, you're going to end up alienating a lot more than just 20% of you playerbase, you're going to alienate more like 80% (if not 100%) of it.

 

You don't have a monolithic majority subsidizing a minority, you have a collection of different minorities all subsidizing each other so that there's enough resources to support any/all of them.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Quraswren

[Damask_Rose]

It doesn't matter what you call it. Mentoring. Syncing. Whatever. A Sync system is a Sync system - period. Anyone else want to try to say that NO one asked for a Sync system in the past? And most of those threads had POSITIVE feedback, too. yet now that they actually put it INTO the game, now all of a sudden it's the end of the world?

 

Mentoring is a very different system than level - syncing. Because of that, people can be pro-mentoring, but anti-syncing.

[Khevar]

You shown pretty clear what your preferences are. Youre not some mysterious entity.

Oh, I'm certainly not a mystery to most people on this board.

 

But based on some of the non-sequitur arguments you've made to me, and the fact you claimed I need to look past my "petty preferences if I want this genre to survive" tells me that I must be a mystery to you, personally.

 

Willing you back up your claim? Tell me: What are my preferences as regards TOR or MMOs?

 

It'll be interesting for me to see who it is you think you've been arguing with.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Khevar

[Faelandaea]

Because they wanted an optional way to play. A mentoring tool that was optional not forced. A level sync similar to FF that is not forced.

 

What was asked for and what we got are not the same because of implementation. So don't fool yourself into thinking anyone got what was requested and really, did you start any of them?

 

And nowhere in any of these posts or threads did I say I was against options, myself. It was brought up that in no way could anyone have requested ANY form of Sync option or anything even remotely related. When i said otherwise, people flipped out. Thus my debate with them.

 

I'm still certain that someday in the future we may be able to get instances or something people can go to and not be under Sync, and I think that the people who did recommend there be a special instance where you do not have to be sync'd had a great idea. Of course, I would only support that if those special instances were excluded from special events that were meant to be done at a particular level.

 

And I am still certain I participated in such a thread. And since this is the ONLY SWTOR related forum on the internet, I'll eventually find it.

[Pagy]

It doesn't matter what you call it. Mentoring. Syncing. Whatever. A Sync system is a Sync system - period. Anyone else want to try to say that NO one asked for a Sync system in the past? And most of those threads had POSITIVE feedback, too. yet now that they actually put it INTO the game, now all of a sudden it's the end of the world?

how many of these threads did you start?

 

again, no one is knocking the system, they are knocking the fact it's forced.

[TUXs]

Yeah, its a wild idea, but they have a budget and limited manpower and they have to VERY carefully pick what they do.

 

You can go back to my 95% vs 5% post.

 

In ideal world with unlimited budget and unlimited manpower everyone would get unlimited supply of everything.

 

since SWTOR is pretty much opposite of that....the least efficient content gets cut first.

Go back to your 95% vs 5% post why? Those are made up numbers. You don't know what the numbers are here so what the hell do imaginary numbers have to do with anything?

 

If what you said is true about least efficient content getting cut, why do we have GSF in-game still? Or the PvE space game? PvP?

 

In fact, I'm really curious...you claim 95% don't do Ops at all...care to tell me specifically what you think these players actually do participate in? Because I think your assumption is as wrong as you have been...I bet 30-40%+ of the players have done Ops. But please...tell me what other activity you believe 95% of the people are actively doing.

[TUXs]

how many of these threads did you start?

None, which was his original claim. Lie or imagined?

[Quraswren]

how many of these threads did you start?

 

again, no one is knocking the system, they are knocking the fact it's forced.

 

and no one flipped out at his line of thinking on the subject of a mentoring system. It was just proven he didn't start jack as he claimed.

 

We know there were posts asking for a mentoring system. An optional game play feature you can use when you want to help a friend. NOT a forced down leveling system so BW doesn't have to create any new content to do at end game.

[SelinaH]

Mentoring is a very different system than level - syncing. Because of that, people can be pro-mentoring, but anti-syncing.

QFT. This implementation of level sync doesn't even necessarily provide the benefits of mentoring at lower levels: Since mentor players will be synced to planetary limit and not to their mentees (apparently this is a word now...), on some planets the level gap may still be considerable enough for them to be unable to play together without sacrificing challenge or XP.

[Pagy]

Go back to your 95% vs 5% post why? Those are made up numbers. You don't know what the numbers are here so what the hell do imaginary numbers have to do with anything?

 

If what you said is true about least efficient content getting cut, why do we have GSF in-game still? Or the PvE space game? PvP?

 

In fact, I'm really curious...you claim 95% don't do Ops at all...care to tell me specifically what you think these players actually do participate in? Because I think your assumption is as wrong as you have been...I bet 30-40%+ of the players have done Ops. But please...tell me what other activity you believe 95% of the people are actively doing.

without developer tools and metrics, it's a fool's errand to start down this rabbit hole.

 

the first question being, how do you define 'n' so that you have statistics that provide value?

 

using a number like 5% may be accurate if n is defined as "all swtor accounts" but what value does that provide?

why can't 'n' be:

all swtor accounts active in the last 6 months?

all swtor accounts active in the last 30 days?

all swtor subscriber accounts active in the last 30 days?

all swtor accounts currently online?

 

like i said, it's a rabbit hole. and the % of players in operations changes drastically. how do you value a player that plays solo once a month versus a player that plays hours every day? there's no right or wrong answer, just such a mess when you think of it.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Pagy

[Mikahrtwo]

Go back to your 95% vs 5% post why? Those are made up numbers. You don't know what the numbers are here so what the hell do imaginary numbers have to do with anything?

 

If what you said is true about least efficient content getting cut, why do we have GSF in-game still? Or the PvE space game? PvP?

 

In fact, I'm really curious...you claim 95% don't do Ops at all...care to tell me specifically what you think these players actually do participate in? Because I think your assumption is as wrong as you have been...I bet 30-40%+ of the players have done Ops. But please...tell me what other activity you believe 95% of the people are actively doing.

 

Really, i wonder sometimes.

 

Please enlighten us:

 

How much content has PvP got?

How much content has has PvE space game got?

How much content has GSF got?

 

And im really surprised (not) that you cannot conclude what has been done the most based on BWs action and content in KOTFE. And, OTOH what has NOT been done enough to warrant allocating any resources to it.

 

But this isnt just SWTOR. Its pretty much same across this type of MMOs. From WoW to LOTRO to WS.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

 

If you need clarification on that statement from Turbine, its when they said they are axing raids and quite awesome *****torm broke loose on the forums and in "community"

 

Notable is that same statements like yours were cited for years in LOTRO by "communiy", in fact same statement like yours still have a mythical hold over "forum communities" when they have been busted quite a few times by now.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[TUXs]

Really, i wonder sometimes.

 

Please enlighten us:

 

How much content has PvP got?

How much content has has PvE space game got?

How much content has GSF got?

 

And im really surprised (not) that you cannot conclude what has been done the most based on BWs action and content in KOTFE. And, OTOH what has NOT been done enough to warrant allocating any resources to it.

 

But this isnt just SWTOR. Its pretty much same across this type of MMOs. From WoW to LOTRO to WS.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

 

If you need clarification on that statement from Turbine, its when they said they are axing raids and quite awesome *****torm broke loose on the forums and in "community"

 

Notable is that same statements like yours were cited for years in LOTRO by "communiy", in fact same statement like yours still have a mythical hold over "forum communities" when they have been busted quite a few times by now.

Can you just answer my question please? What are those 95% of players doing in your opinion?

[Mikahrtwo]

Can you just answer my question please? What are those 95% of players doing in your opinion?

 

Most of them stories and planetary content. Some PvP still as i did get pops for WZs *shrug*

[TUXs]

Most of them stories and planetary content. Some PvP still as i did get pops for WZs *shrug*

95% are leveling (stories), doing the non-repeatable planetary quests AND PvP? 95%??

[Mikahrtwo]

95% are leveling (stories), doing the non-repeatable planetary quests AND PvP? 95%??

 

Really dude? If you want to act like 3yrs old, be my guest. Dont expect me to react seriously to it.

 

I told you to go back to my 5% and 95% post and everything is laid out there.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Quraswren]

SNIP....

But this isnt just SWTOR. Its pretty much same across this type of MMOs. From WoW to LOTRO to WS.

SNIP...

 

I think you are low balling just how many people hit end game OPs and raids when it's actually present in games.

 

Roughly 70% of the wow player base is hitting the easiest level of wow raids. They are raiding no matter how you feel about the difficulty level and 50% of players that beat it all, not attempted it.

 

WOW raids on Siege of Orgrimmar Progression

 

There is no pretty much across the board. There are more people running raids and I dare say more running OPS than you want to realize. That 95% number you're spouting is garbage. Simply because BW made some claim that story is wanted more doesn't in any way support that running OPS isn't also requested or ran to a large degree. It's just story content is better than their ops content. However, story has a much shorter lifespan than OPS content.

 

I think you are a little more than way off with your line of thinking. We're not talking about hitting the hardest difficulty. Just raiding in general and I'd bet more hit OPS than you want to realize.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Quraswren

[Mikahrtwo]

I think you are low balling just how many people hit end game OPs and raids when it's actually present in games.

 

Roughly 70% of the wow player base is hitting the easiest level of wow raids. They are raiding no matter how you feel about the difficulty level and 50% of players that beat it all, not attempted it.

 

WOW raids on Siege of Orgrimmar Progression

 

There is no pretty much across the board. There are more people running raids and I dare say more running OPS than you want to realize. Simply because BW made some claim that story is wanted more doesn't in any way support that running OPS isn't also requests. It's just story content is better than their ops content. However, story has a much shorter lifespan than OPS content.

 

I think you are a little more than way off with your line of thinking. We're not talking about hitting the hardest difficulty. Just raiding in general and I'd bet more hit OPS than you want to realize.

 

First you have to understand what yooure looking at (which you demonstrated you dont), they you have to actually have to bring valid conclusion (which you cant because of first thing)

 

Now go back and read that article again and ponder about what it represents.

[Quraswren]

First you have to understand what yooure looking at (which you demonstrated you dont), they you have to actually have to bring valid conclusion (which you cant because of first thing)

 

Now go back and read that article again and ponder about what it represents.

 

I did but you didn't understand my point. You want to claim there isn't much going on as far as raiding goes in some games, wow being one of them. You couldn't be wrong than you are.

 

Lotro taking out raids doesn't mean jack **** when Lotro is about as mediocre as you can get. Hell, you can barely get anyone to do any group content but even then they put out their so called Epic battles for groups of 12. While nothing new came in instances, they sure made new end game group content.

 

I's clear you couldn't be more wrong. Gamers are raiding in large numbers. Hitting OPs in SWTOR in large numbers wouldn't be that far off though I do think it would be less as LFR is far easier than SWTOR SM. As long as we're talking about the easiest difficulity level, more are running it than you want to give it credit for.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Quraswren

[Mikahrtwo]

I did but you didn't understand my point. You want to claim there isn't much going on as far as raiding goes in some games, wow being one of them. You couldn't be wrong than you are.

 

Lotro taking out raids doesn't mean jack **** when Lotro is about as mediocre as you can get. Hell, you can barely get anyone to do any group content but even then they put out their so called Epic battles for groups of 12. While nothing new came in instances, they sure made new end game group content.

 

I's clear you couldn't be more wrong. Gamers are raiding in large numbers. Hitting OPs in SWTOR in large numbers wouldn't be that far off though I do think it would be less as LFR is far easier than SWTOR SM. As long as we're talking about the easiest difficulity level, more are running it than you want to give it credit for.

 

ROFL

 

Out of 10m players in MoP, 70% out of 2,3m finished LFR AND even that is lower because they omitted unknown number of non guilded players.

 

Im sure youll figure it out eventually.

 

Im sorry, but you need to comprehend what you read first, otherwise discussion is pointless.

 

And you two are prime example why these myths still float around forum communities.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Teladis]

Bioware is moving away from group content and raid heavily focus end game. They needed to do it. I mean you might get a raid once and awhile, but story is the key.

 

 

The future is bright. Glad more and more MMOs are starting to see Raiding end game is not enough.

[Quraswren]

Ah, yeah, i forgot...math...its hard.

 

Yes you did. A sample size of the wow armory for 7.3 million characters does give a better impression than what you might have originally thought but was mistake on.

 

You'll try again Im sure as we give extra chances around here.

 

Bioware is moving away from group content and raid heavily focus end game. They needed to do it. I mean you might get a raid once and awhile, but story is the key.

The future is bright. Glad more and more MMOs are starting to see Raiding end game is not enough.

 

If story lasted longer I might could see your POV but since it is so easily consumed leaving little to nothing but to grind to get back what you already had and BW took away.

 

It's a shot in the dark I don't see being all that successful and brings more negative than positives.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Quraswren

[Mikahrtwo]

Yes you did. A sample size of the wow armory for 7.3 million characters does give a better impression than what you might have originally thought but was mistake on.

 

You'll try again Im sure as we give extra chances around here.

 

Again, you have to read past first line.

 

Lets analyze it further and see how many people did actual raiding (which is normal):

 

Teehee: 5%

 

Im glad you brought that page up.

 

And i have already said that there should be content in SWTOR that scales from 1-16 players, and group exclusive content should be super scarce.

[Pagy]

Again, you have to read past first line.

 

Lets analyze it further and see how many people did actual raiding (which is normal):

 

Teehee: 5%

 

Im glad you brought that page up.

 

And i have already said that there should be content in SWTOR that scales from 1-16 players, and group exclusive content should be super scarce.

what's 'n' in this fabricated 5% of yours?

 

does it include Timmy, the plumber from Wisconsin that logged in three times this year?

[Duedroth]

Not at all a fan of what I currently know about level sync. I leveled through and out-leveled these zones for a reason. I shouldn't be arsed to fight through an area I haven't been to in years just because I want a datacron now that they're good across legacy.

 

It's not worth quitting over since I likely won't encounter it often. My time is mostly in strongholds, WZs, fleet, raids. But it seems very silly and incredibly pointless.

[Mikahrtwo]

what's 'n' in this fabricated 5% of yours?

 

does it include Timmy, the plumber from Wisconsin that logged in three times this year?

 

My fabricated?

 

You now claim that that page is fabrication.

 

Oh my, Quraswhatever will be VERY dissapointed.