Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[zeroshoot]

I'm pretty sure there is a document from times of initial development, with notes on game design, which states exactly how it should and should not be played. Most likely it got changed overtime, as it should have, but it's still there. The simple presence of game rules supports that assumption. Denying that fact is denying Bioware basic level of competence. And in the end of the day, game should be played the way THEY see it, and no other way around. Sometimes it aligns with our desires, sometimes it doesn't. If we don't like it, we can quit. Simple as that.

 

so your saying that there was level sync planned all along? really? so they TOTALLY changed the game, then launched a beta, then the game went live and got played in 1 way for YEARS and now they want to change it BACK to the way it was meant to be played?

 

REALLY??????

Edited October 12, 2015 by zeroshoot

[Mikahrtwo]

Well, not to sound conceited, but I know if it's the marginally skilled way, come 4.0; and whatever character and with whatever dps spec I use, I should be home.

 

I'm not opposed to grouping if I know I can just about solo whatever it is; see, I feel heroic 2+s are something I, personally, SHOULD be able to solo without being life-support-machine-dependent upon help every single time I come to do them. Ideally, every single heroic should be soloable with any combination of char/comp roles, even dps/dps (At Ilum and for the Area 2+ on Belsavis' Section X, I soloed these at 55 with such a squishy-pair combo, back before 3.0), with even the weakest-parsing dps spec. Are they Pyro/plasmatech and Ruffian/Lethality? I'm not sure, except from the dulfy guides I read some months ago.

 

Anyway, I'd rather marginally skilled be the focus reference; rather than exceptionally skilled, it means that people can group if they want to, and not get trolled/fgriefed by 99% of PUGs with a repair bill accumulation fetish that they are hell-bent on imposing on everyone else.

 

Wishful thinking, maybe; but that "This mission may require a small group." notification as seen here: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/swtor-heroic-mission-terminal.jpg

 

That MAY, or may not be more for the benefit of newer players, rather than those of us who've been there and done that. I just wish Eric showed us the sync implications for Oricon, so I'd have all the info I need on soloability; because that's where the real crunch test is, not an under-20 planet.

 

 

 

Technically, you can still gain XP from a green mission and green mobs if you're 6 levels above (61 for Oricon, it would be for instance), at 7 the mission goes grey, and it's variable when mobs go grey; staying above the content when levelling by 4-6 levels was a real saving grace for me when levelling up when comms were scarce, thus gear, especially ear/implants. I think that mobs go grey closer to your level difference earlier on, whereas level 50s are still green to 60s. Not 100% sure, but I think 49s are grey if you're 59.

 

Failing them syncing us above max level, I'd suggest BW:A consider my Mandatory Sync Level Range Options idea as found in my signature, which would set a below and above max range of level options (absolutely no higher than 6 levels above the max planet level range, and only that high for planets covering 1 or 2 levels, like Quesh, the 50s, 55s, etc, it'd be a a lower range, like 4-5 above max for large-level-range planets, covering 3+ levels), but keep PvP-flaggeds at the same level. You'd arrive on a world synced at the standard BW:A-set synced level, and, if not PvP-flagged, you can pick from a range of levels to be re-synced to. If you become flagged while there, you automatically become synced to the BW:A standard synced level (if the blog prevails, the max level for a planet).

 

ANet had quite a few adjustements to levle sync since launch in GW2 until they setteld for what is "best". I still feel quite OP at low-ish levels but eventually that OPness wanes as you move through the levels. And just for reference, GW2 has dynamic lelv sync that 100% matches you to level of area (if walk from lvl 59 area to 60 on same map your level will go from 59 -> 60)

 

That might be completely relevant to your selection of skills as lower levels have to adjusted for skills players have at that level, so even level synced you could feel OP.

 

For PvP level spread of sync should be as narrow as it can be.

[Mikahrtwo]

so your saying that there was level sync planned all along? really? so they TOTALLY changed the game, then launched a beta, then the game went live and got played in 1 way for YEARS and now they want to change it BACK to the way it was meant to be played?

 

REALLY??????

 

level sync is more aligned to their original idea of SWTOR being and RPG instead of being WoW with SW skin which we ended up with.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Reno_Tarshil]

so your saying that there was level sync planned all along? really? so they TOTALLY changed the game, then launched a beta, then the game went live and got played in 1 way for YEARS and now they want to change it BACK to the way it was meant to be played?

 

REALLY??????

 

Actually and I could be wrong.

 

They thought their world content would be long enough to keep players busy, but people blazed thru it instead like in any MMO.

[zeroshoot]

level sync is more aligned to their original idea of SWTOR being and RPG instead of being WoW with SW skin which we ended up with.

 

you realize what your saying is backwards? every RPG I have played has levels in it. the very reason to play your character is to level it up. the idea of level sync is totally the opposite. since you will now level to max level and then if you, for WHATEVER the reason, want to return to a lower level area you are now REDUCED in level which is the exact opposite of INCREASING your level and abilities

[Reno_Tarshil]

you realize what your saying is backwards? every RPG I have played has levels in it. the very reason to play your character is to level it up. the idea of level sync is totally the opposite. since you will now level to max level and then if you, for WHATEVER the reason, want to return to a lower level area you are now REDUCED in level which is the exact opposite of INCREASING your level and abilities

 

And RPGs can't change?

[Toastandtoast]

You know, I'm not for the change, but all of you sound like childish twits. So much name calling and people being mean.

[Jazulfi]

People play games for different reasons. You obviously do it to challenge yourself/be challenged and overcome difficult obstacles, because that gives you a sense of pride or a similar sensation.

But you really need to understand that other people like other things and you can't force them to like what you like. It's really as simple as that.

 

No matter how hard a coach would try, I would not be a good pole vault jumper. That's because 1) I am physically unable to do it and 2) I have no interested in doing it. Now matter how many time he would shout; YOU CAN GET BETTER AT THIS! No. No I can't.

 

Just wanted to add my voice to this.

 

I play mmos mostly because they afford me the chance to game in large open world spaces, which usually have lengthy and interesting storylines. I really enjoy exploring, collecting, rp etc and, despite usually playing my currently favourite game very heavily (to the point of 'raisins for eyes') I'm probably classed as one of those 'filthy casuals.'

 

I really like combat, and being skillful up to a point, but I'm not a kit-hound and I have no interest in PvP, raiding or frequently grouping for heroics or instances.

 

Added to which, I like having a change of pace. Going back to old, lower level zones lets me see places I couldn't necessarily get to before. I like going back for achievements, to collect pets/mounts, to find bits of armour I like the look of (not for stats) - stuff like that. I like having the option to play in a more relaxed way sometimes.

 

I don't begrudge players who want to be best at what they do, and I know that I'm very unlikely to see the inside of raids or heroics etc but level syncing effectively places that gate on the rest of the open world in the game. I'm less likely to see even more of the game, which makes me a bit sad.

 

Personally, I think mmos work at their best when they accommodate a variety of playstyles. It makes the world a much deeper, more interesting place to 'live.'

Edited October 12, 2015 by Jazulfi

[zeroshoot]

Actually and I could be wrong.

 

They thought their world content would be long enough to keep players busy, but people blazed thru it instead like in any MMO.

 

yes and unless bioware comes out with some "new evidence" showing dates previous to 2011, because thats when it was in beta, and the game plays now as it was in beta, i will always believe that you are wrong, there is nothing posted anywhere that i have seen that suggests that bioware had a totally different game mechanic in place and then completely changed it before it went to beta.

 

also bioware was coming out with that excuse weeks after the game launched and it was just an excuse back then as it is now. people were leveling the crap out of chars in the beta, how could bioware possibly not see that? it's one of 2 things: bioware was really stupid and payed NO ATTENTION what so ever to what was happening on their beta servers, or they were straight up lying about it, and launched the game WAY too early, and with EA backing them i believe it was the latter. but i have just as much proof of that as you do about this "level sync was planned all along" idea

[Max_Killjoy]

^ Well that's a complete utter fabrication and quite possibly an outright lie. Anyone can read your post history to confirm. But keep telling yourself that...

 

+ One for pointing that out.

[Mikahrtwo]

you realize what your saying is backwards? every RPG I have played has levels in it. the very reason to play your character is to level it up. the idea of level sync is totally the opposite. since you will now level to max level and then if you, for WHATEVER the reason, want to return to a lower level area you are now REDUCED in level which is the exact opposite of INCREASING your level and abilities

 

Any RPG you played didnt have respawns. So that lvl 10 mandalorian you killed at lvl 10 was just as hard as lvl 50 mandalorian you killed at lvl 50.

 

levels as presented in MMO are completely opposite of RPG. They are based on Diablo-esque gear/stat grind which EQ/WoW adopted and then any game based on them.

 

Since Diablo wasnt RPG it didnt matter. But even Diablo had level sync (areas were synced to your level). It amounts the same though. At lvl 50 you killed lvl 50 Bhaal. At lvl 70 you killed lvl 70 Baal... ... ...

Edited October 12, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Faelandaea]

Any RPG you played didnt have respawns. So that lvl 10 mandalorian you killed at lvl 10 was just as hard as lvl 50 mandalorian you killed at lvl 50.

 

levels as presented in MMO are completely opposite of RPG. They are based on Diablo-esque gear/stat grind which EQ/WoW adopted and then any game based on them.

 

Since Diablo wasnt RPG it didnt matter. But even Diablo had level sync (areas were synced to your level). It amounts the same though. At lvl 50 you killed lvl 50 Bhaal. At lvl 70 you killed lvl 70 Baal... ... ...

 

I do think that a lot of people are getting confused with the idea of leveling. You bring a good point. I do not know anything about Diablo. I have never played it. But, i can see the relation to what I have been reading a lot of in this thread. People say "what good is leveling if I don't have God mode after leveling?" God mode is for single player games with a cheat code. In an MMO environment, you level for the sake of facing more challenging content. THAT is why you level. You do not level to go face-roll level 1 stuff. You level to gain access to endgame content which is supposed to be harder than normal and to prepare yourself to face those challenges.

 

That's actually one of the things that keeps me in MMO games for a LONG amount of time - the building of myself into higher level content. I don't level to backtrack to noob areas to fulfill some narcissistic ego-driven god complex in an attempt to make up for my insecurities in a digital social atmosphere. Sure I'll backtrack to help a friend, but I won't backtrack just to feel powerful. I have plenty of single player games I can do that on.

 

Literally EVERY single player PC game in existence has a trainer, cheat console, or some Easter egg available that enables you to cheat and go into God mode. EVERY one. So if I DO get into a narcissistic ego-driven god-complex mood to go plow stuff that can't fight back, I load up one of the many many many MANY games I have on my PC that allow me to do that. Then when I am satisfied with my ultimate godliness over a bunch of animated, colored pixels on a monitor, I go back into an MMO game to meet stuff that is on my "level".

Edited October 12, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Quraswren]

Not my problem if they feel punished for not getting better at an already easy game.

 

No, thats a designers problem to deal with and down leveling everyone wont change that. Gamers tend to not rise to the occasion. Telling them to get better just doesn't happen in a large enough number. You might want that to happen, reality proves otherwise.

 

You do not level to go face-roll level 1 stuff.

 

Actually that is incorrect. I level up just so I can go back and solo things. It's a perk in a game based and built around actually leveling up. I've enjoyed that type of game for a number of years now and not just in SWTOR. I like leveling up games on many levels, leveling up to go solo old content with ease is one of them.

 

I know not everyone does that which is why I vote optional for this down leveling thing.

 

You level to gain access to endgame content which is supposed to be harder than normal and to prepare yourself to face those challenges.

 

and thats all one reason to level up but not the only reason.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Quraswren

[Faelandaea]

No, thats a designers problem to deal with and down leveling everyone wont change that. Gamers tend to not rise to the occasion. Telling them to get better just doesn't happen in a large enough number. You might want that to happen, reality proves otherwise.

 

This is why I solo everything except for an occasional OP with the guild - I never notice if the guy next to me sucks.

 

Actually that is incorrect. I level up just so I can go back and solo things. It's a perk in a game based and built around actually leveling up. I've enjoyed that type of game for a number of years now and not just in SWTOR. I like leveling up games on many levels, leveling up to go solo old content with ease is one of them.

 

But by design an MMO is supposed to be "you level into higher content". Like I said, you have literally dozens upon dozens of single player games on your computer for god-mode.

 

As for soloing, EVERYTHING in SWTOR save for World Bosses and OPs will still be able to be solo done even with the Sync. And I fully support World Bosses again needing a few people to take down. That's the way they were designed. Increases in level caps, etc. started making players way too able to go one-shot a world boss right from in front of an at-level group that was getting ready to engage it.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Quraswren]

This is why I solo everything except for an occasional OP with the guild - I never notice if the guy next to me sucks.

 

A perk of leveling up in a leveling based game. It's fun and entertaining and down leveling everyone doesn't really add to that enjoyment where it being optional would allow for more gamers to continue to enjoy what they have been for 4 years.

 

But by design an MMO is supposed to be "you level into higher content". Like I said, you have literally dozens upon dozens of single player games on your computer for god-mode.

 

By design that is just one perks of leveling up. The other is out leveling content so it's easier to go back and solo or makes it even possible to solo. Thats a perk I also like. I enjoyed in in wow greatly to level up and go back to solo old content. It's a fun way to play.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Quraswren

[Faelandaea]

A perk of leveling up in a leveling based game. It's fun and entertaining and down leveling everyone doesn't really add to that enjoyment where it being optional would allow for more gamers to continue to enjoy what they have been for 4 years.

 

I can give you that, but everything will remain able to be solo'd. You have no worries there. It might just take more than one shot to kill it. Being a solo player myself I know where you are coming from. And I think a lot of solo players are thinking that they will no longer be able to solo stuff while in Sync, but streams have already aired that give comfort that we can still easily take on anything anywhere.

 

Really, all Sync does is make World Bosses get back to being a group item, which is what they should be. Heroics, Flashpoints, special events and other open world content is still very much able to be done solo

Edited October 12, 2015 by Faelandaea

[zeroshoot]

Any RPG you played didnt have respawns. .

 

not sure how to respond to this.... you think swtor is the first game with respawns or what?

 

So that lvl 10 mandalorian you killed at lvl 10 was just as hard as lvl 50 mandalorian you killed at lvl 50.

 

yeah but when i took my level 50 back to a level 10 area, guess what? there's STILL LEVEL 10s everywhere!!!!

 

levels as presented in MMO are completely opposite of RPG.

dude really? no.... every rpg that I have played was you get levels to make your char more powerful then when MMO's came into being they stayed with that formula... like you know.... the same formula from like d+d table top games that have been around since like the 1960's or possibly earlier.

[Quraswren]

I can give you that, but everything will remain able to be solo'd. You have no worries there. It might just take more than one shot to kill it. Being a solo player myself I know where you are coming from. And I think a lot of solo players are thinking that they will no longer be able to solo stuff while in Sync, but streams have already aired that give comfort that we can still easily take on anything anywhere.

 

Then we have a change to a 4 year old game that was already fun in how we played it and the new change doesn't really change anything.

 

We have this dumb***** change for nothing all so we have to 3 shot something instead of one shoting it and making world bosses out of reach to solo and trivialize the very nature of a game based on leveling up.

 

No thank you. Down leveling isn't making the game better. It's not bringing any more fun to SWTOR, it's just a change to add a bit of tediousness to open worlds.

 

A change just to say we changed is unwise and not worth supporting.

 

and as far as world bosses goes. That easily solved without having down leveling forced on everyone and could accomplish the same goal of making world bosses that had to have a group. Down leveling on everyone to make that happen all the time and not just when you were actually at that level. No thank you.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Quraswren

[sentientomega]

If Oricon is still able to be soloed (it IS the real test, and Eric would've been wiser to show us that instead of DK), whatever our synced level and whatever our actual level (my test come 4.0 will be on a brand new insta-60, and I mean ALL 8 champs), then it's highly likely that every other piece of heroic content everywhere else should be.

 

If we were all down-scaled to 5 levels above the planet max from a higher level, we could solo everything GUARANTEED (yes, even Oricon), EXCEPT WBs, which is totally fine.

 

If I understand correctly, from Rishi onward, there are no heroic missions, as such?

Edited October 12, 2015 by sentientomega

[Faelandaea]

If Oricon is still able to be soloed (it IS the real test, and Eric would've been wiser to show us that instead of DK), whatever our synced level and whatever our actual level (my test come 4.0 will be on a brand new insta-60, and I mean ALL 8 champs), then it's highly likely that every other piece of heroic content everywhere else should be.

 

Well there is no such thing as a Heroic "4+" at all as of 4.0. They did confirm that. So whatever they do to Heroics on Oricon will probably be scaled to account for that as well. All heroics will be considered "2+"

 

I barely remember Oricon. haven't been there in ages. So my response is directed to the part where you mentioned "Heroics" in your post

Edited October 12, 2015 by Faelandaea

[sentientomega]

Well there is no such thing as a Heroic "4+" at all as of 4.0. They did confirm that. So whatever they do to Heroics on Oricon will probably be scaled to account for that as well. All heroics will be considered "2+"

 

I barely remember Oricon. haven't been there in ages. So my response is indicated that you mentioned "Heroics" in your post

 

Well, take 186-geared 60 and comp (but not healer/tank or tank/healer, no cheating!), visit Oricon, before you try the heroic, hook yourself up to a heart-rate monitor. And then charge into the heroic area and take on all 8 champs, and the macrobinocular (that mission item from the Shroud mission line is required for the bonus) bonus champ, if you can sense a quite elevated heart-rate, you just followed in my footsteps.

 

At any rate, the Oricon heroic is by far the toughest of the 2+s (it's always been an H2+, though it has felt like a 4:o), and if, after the sync, on a fresh 60, it is still soloable, whatever the synced level, then I can reasonable suppose that all other H2+s will be as well.

 

Honestly, if it were up to me, I'd ELIMINATE all interrupt cool-downs for non-PvP-flagged situations.

[dscount]

If Oricon is still able to be soloed (it IS the real test, and Eric would've been wiser to show us that instead of DK), whatever our synced level and whatever our actual level (my test come 4.0 will be on a brand new insta-60, and I mean ALL 8 champs), then it's highly likely that every other piece of heroic content everywhere else should be.

 

I'm more concerned about all those WB's that are ABOVE the planets level range that might not be addressed. I'm not going to be visiting them anytime soon anyways, but I just see naked characters running around on lower planets like good old PVP bolster did for us. LOL

[Faelandaea]

Honestly, if it were up to me, I'd ELIMINATE all interrupt cool-downs for non-PvP-flagged situations.

 

Yeah I definitely agree. Always obnoxious in situations like Yavin 4 - go to slap an Overseer. He goes to do Durasteel Punch (the one that sends you flying) - my tank has 5 interrupts. I manage to use all 4 every time he attempts the punch and due to CDs he still gets in one punch before I kill him.

[Mikahrtwo]

Yeah I definitely agree. Always obnoxious in situations like Yavin 4 - go to slap an Overseer. He goes to do Durasteel Punch (the one that sends you flying) - my tank has 5 interrupts. I manage to use all 4 every time he attempts the punch and due to CDs he still gets in one punch before I kill him.

 

Thats once change from 3.0 that they need to revert back, as making interrupt CD longer didnt do anything but made certain fights much more annoying.

 

Many many mobs are not tuned to new interrupt CDs and have critical skills on lower CD than players have interrupt. You shouldnt be able to spam it, but should be able to interrupt critical skills (terminate as an example)

 

Well, for PvE at least.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Bluejayoo]

Ok, so I posted that I don't like level sync... however, I am trying to see the upside, and I did just think of one situation where it could be a "good thing".

 

I see many other upsides... like being able to play with friends and family that are lower level, making it easier for dev's to add content to older planets with out causing chaos for players trying to level characters, making it fun and challenging to actually explore all areas of a planet, preventing older planets from becoming dead zones, etc...

 

I have played MMO's with level sync before and I thought I would hate it too but it turned out to be a very good design decision.